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Aug 31 2000, 09:45 PM
This is an open question to player's who can throw a drive more than 400'.
When you first started throwing golf plastic what distance did you throw?
Did you start out around 300 feet? and with practice work your way up to 400-500 feet? or did you start out close to 400 feet? Basically are 300-350 foot throwers stuck in this range or with practice can we achieve 400 to 500 feet with the right skill and practice.
**Not many people can throw a 95 mph fastball no matter how much they practice.my feeling is that Stokley,Climo and schultz are like Clemons,Johnson and Pedro no matter how much we practice we'll never get there..
Thanks
Dave

Aug 31 2000, 10:29 PM
I agree that some people can pick up a disc and right off the bat whip it 300 feet. Personally I couldn't do that. It just takes practice and keeping an eye on those who can throw over 400 feet. Listen to the advice that people offer you. When I was told to hold my disc with a hyzer angle and snap the daylights out of it I walked away thinking 'this guy is nuts! my disc is going to cut huge to the left!' and you know what? it did! But you just keep trying each and every tip you get and eventually you will add on distance.

It is mentioned about 500 times here but taking all your discs to an open field is priceless.

I have added a ton of distance to my drives this year but my scores haven't improved as drastically as I thought. PUTTING is where to shave strokes off your score. Sad but true.

Sep 01 2000, 02:27 AM
nothing, will help you more than open field practice for distance. take 10 or more discs and work it out. don't try to throw as hard as you can, try to be smooth, and the power will come. have fun!

Sep 01 2000, 01:19 PM
I started out at maybe 220 feet a year ago and am up to 385 max. Practice did a lot for consistency but nothing for pure distance. There's a line on the soccer field, for weeks my best drives would land 1 foot short of that line. Daily practice literally did not add one foot.

Watching better players didn't work either. It's over so fast that you just can't see, and many of techniques are so subtle that they are invisible unless you already know about them. And a lot of good players just muscle the disc, which I can't do.

What DID work was finding some trick to add 30 feet of distance right away. Do that 5 times and you've got an extra 150 feet. All these tips came from combing the Internet and a few other places. For backhand the best source is Rick Bays' "License To Drive" http://www.discgolfonline.com article, next best the Scott Stokely interview at the Discraft web site, there's an excellent photo sequence at <a href="http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/lsteffen/worlds2000/worlds2k.html (http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/lsteffen/worlds2000/worlds2k.html)" target="_blank">http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/lsteffen/worlds2000/worlds2k.html</A></a>, and this message board has some helpful tips. I might have saved a lot of time by following the Rick Bays article more closely, because some of the little details that are barely mentioned are important.

Rick Bays is God!

Sep 01 2000, 01:38 PM
I started out throwing around 150 foot with this wicked hyzer effect that just seemed like It would never fly anywhere. Five years later Im throwing over 500 foot on a "FLAT"(this one for Morgan) open field, I use Eagle's and special edition leopards(Actuallu its a combo teebird/leopard). I can throw almost anything over 400 including my aviar's, I can hit 400 on a rare occasion with an Omega but not with consistency or accuracy. I would say if you want to add distance to your drive hit an open field and concentrate on getting the disc straight across across your chest. I find working my body into a pendulam type motion with my arm being swinging helped add more distance than anything. BTW for those of you who say you have to muscle a disc that far(wrong). Im 6'1" 150 pounds and whip the living <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> out of a disc, I think last clock speed was either 73mph or 77mph. That was with a proto Climo eagle....(super eagle) Apologies on the bad typing and grammar

Sep 01 2000, 02:35 PM
>> I find working my body into a pendulam type motion with my arm being swinging helped add more distance than anything.

Any chance for more detail with this? A pendulum pivoting around what, in which plane? Or do you mean speeding up and slowing down gradually and smoothly?

Sep 02 2000, 04:37 AM
I learned the technique from Erik Drummond(wonders if Erik even remembers this)... I try to generate power using a swing like that of a baseball bat. Using my whole body as the extension of the pendulum backwards slowly then work the disc forward as if it were the end of the "pendulum." I use the basball swing in there because I turn my hips and try to generate as much power as I can with my legs(may sound funny but a batters swing has to have good hip movement to be able to turn on the ball;like turning on the disc). I hope this helps, If you want more details on it I can give them but Stokely would be the man to learn to from. Also this is my first try at describing this so if its confusing let me know Ill try to make it clearer to understand.

Sep 02 2000, 04:27 PM
what grip genarates the most power? power grip=
3finger=fan grip= stokley says he uses the fan grip index finger under the rim,middle and ring
finger on the underside of the disc,wiht your pinki on the the bottom rim and you thumb pressing
to your pinki,iv been tryin this for a week and
it feels alot smoother-i got the same power with the fan grip as i do with the 3finger380-400 but my accuracy is not there yet with the fan grip
im tryin to gain anohter 50feet if my body allows
should i focus on the run up,grip,angle of release
someone kick me some feedback on this id like to here how you crush the 500footers peace

ThEbOxEr

Sep 03 2000, 04:37 AM
I would say grip how it feels most comfortable to "you". I would suggest a understable disc like an XL if you want to add distance, I find these discs distance comes from technique more than power. Learning to throw flat with the nose down straight i think will also help add distance. I find most often when I start losing distance its because i get lazy and start letting the disc come out of my hand with the nose up. Kind of a sketchy posting but its late and Im going to bed

Sep 05 2000, 02:02 AM
I am a fan of the throw till you fall method. It may sound stupid, but i get up a good head of steam and then just chuck it generating the most forward momentum as possible with the most wrist snap possible. Everybody thinks I'm crazy but it works. The way to add more forward momentum is to fall forward when you throw.

Sep 05 2000, 05:37 AM
An "XL" is understable to me but generally for most players it will be about the straightest flying disc.

Sep 05 2000, 09:33 AM
Morgan, except for putts within 10 meters, you can always follow thru over the mark. You just have to release the disc behind the mark.

morgan
Sep 05 2000, 09:34 PM
I would like to ask, are people who throw 400 footers counting the slide (if it hits pavements and slides) and/or the roll at the end? Or are you just counting to where it first lands? My practice throws are all in high grass so they never slide or roll. Maybe I could throw them over a frozen lake and let them slide 200 feet on the ice!

Anyway, I made my longest drive ever today. Just like my previous longest (two days ago), it was the XL. It clipped the top of a 3 foot metal fence that was 300 feet away and then went another 30 feet farther, I can only guess that it might have been a 350 or 360 footer if the fence hadn't been there. I used the chicken wing.

rhett
Sep 05 2000, 10:20 PM
The people who throw 400 feet are far fewer than they seem. I went to Worlds this year, stepping up to Advanced, expecting to be blown away by all people who claim to throw 400 to 500 feet. My 330 foot drives were just fine. Of course those guys who only know a 400 foot hyzer line didn't have a lot of success out there in the trees....

Sep 06 2000, 01:05 PM
Rhett: thanks for the observation on 400 foot throws at worlds (or lack of them). I don't doubt that some of the guys that post here throw 400, 500 or even further. However, reading this discussion board, there seems to be a conspiracy of length. The implication is that lots of folks have the "big arm" and those throwing under 400 should take their discs and go home or go to the gym. I don't buy that. I started a post a while back asking the length of the AVERAGE accurate pro drive. A few folks on the tour dared to report that it was (only) about 350 feet or less. Even this report brought a backlash by folks who felt it necessary to report that they had "seen a guy throw 500 once". Well great, but what about AVERAGES, not the rare guy or the aberrant throw. For some reason it seems some folks are obsessed with raw number distance. Isn't big distance really a gift that only a few have, but isn't necessary to compete well?

terrycalhoun
Sep 06 2000, 01:44 PM
It would be a fun competition to have clubs do an informal sampling of distance-intended throws by members and post a "club average" on the Web.

I'm one of those guys who can regularly get to 350 and want 400 really bad, but when I really pay attention there do not seem to be all that many people throwing further. Some do, of course, but not so many as seems to be reflected in the postings about distance.

We have one long hole that is pretty open at our local dinky course, The Creampuff at Brown Park. Maybe this Thursday at our doubles I will ask folks to measure off their drives on that hole and see what the average is.

Sep 06 2000, 02:45 PM
I agree somewhat to the conspiracy of length theory by Glen.

However, I was in the chump change level in pro Worlds, and I thought 3/4s of my competitors could throw 400. I can throw 330, maybe 350. In my foursomes, at least 2 can throw 400, and usually the 3rd one can also. That means I get to be the weenie arm.

I agree that if you can throw a straight 300' and can putt, you're not really hurting in disc golf, but it's hard to imagine anyone in the top 20 at Worlds or U.S. Open that can't throw 400 feet. I've even seen Lissamans and Voakes throw close to that. -- kurt from Seattle

Sep 06 2000, 03:13 PM
Many pros are sub-350. I used to doubt these Internet distance claims, but there is a simple explanation: who's more likely to post, Mr. 500' or Joe 300?

I can also personally attest that distance doesn't do that much for your score. Suppose you can throw 400'. On holes 350 or less it's no advantage at all, and on holes 450 up to maybe 600 it doesn't make much difference either. How many driveable holes between 350 and 450 have you seen? 10% of the total?

That's not all. If your 400' drive isn't accurate enough to get you in putting range then it usually does more harm than good, and controlling that power is not easy. The physics of the situation aren't favorable, because you have to throw maybe 40% harder to get 20% more distance, and a shot like that is maybe twice as hard to control.

Dr. Rick Voakes, no big arm he, once said "It was a very good course for me. Big crushing drives, fairly open, wind." I think what he meant was that the OTHER golfers were tempted into throwing big crushing drives into the bushes while he concentrated on low score. Ken Climo says that even at the highest levels a 375' drive is enough ( but he probably means a rock-solid consistent 375', which is a whole 'nother story. ) A lot of Open players I've seen didn't drive over 300', but they all could hit those 45'ers.

If I'd put all that time and effort into putting my score would be a lot lower. But nobody says "Wow!" when you hit your 10th 20-footer in a row.

Sep 06 2000, 03:57 PM
Patrick wrote>>I can also personally attest that distance doesn't do that much for your score. Suppose you can throw 400'. On holes 350 or less it's no advantage at all.>>

The guy who can throw far gets to throw a Roc or Aviar on those shorter holes; I'd say that's a decided advantage.
I do agree that power without control isn't much help-- As they say in Ball Golf- "The woods are full of Long Hitters."

Sep 06 2000, 05:03 PM
the key is control, with consistent, accurate placement, and knowing your limitations, that is the advantage of the top pros. IMO.

Sep 07 2000, 12:21 PM
I don't care how far someone can throw, if they don't have control, I'll beat they're a@@'es every time. I'm from Michigan and some of the courses around me a very open, but long, and I max out around 350' so some people have a little advantage over me. But as soon as we get into the woodsy part of the courses, all of a sudden my controlled 350' gives me a huge advantage. All I'm sayin' is that if your a new player, focus on control with a smooth drive and putting before you go to the open field and try to yank your arm out of socket. And to those of you throwin' 400 foot drives (around courses that have no consequences for a shanked drive except for maybe a long look at an upshot), try playing a long control course like Heistand or Elver in Wisconsin, and then see how good you really are. A drive that's shanked 50' to left looks a lot different when your starring at the pin through skinny trees, shrubs, pricker bushes, vines and whatever else, as opposed to standing in an open field surround by knee high weeds.Anyway, I guess I just hate when I'm playing with someone who brags the entire round about how he's crushin' drives, and when it's all said and done I'm the one collecting the cash. You've all heard it before and here it is again, "Drive for show, Putt for dough!".....Forever and ever, Amen.....

crusher
Sep 07 2000, 12:27 PM
Jason, your [sic] just jealous.

Sep 07 2000, 01:14 PM
I knew someone would say that. It's really not jealousy, it's just that I'm kinda referring to someone imparticular that can throw 450 that I used to play with (that, by the way, I beat on a regular basis), that I can no longer stand to play with because he doesn't stop talking about how he's gonna crush this and that, and how he's almost aced every hole, I mean it gets really old and he pisses off a lot of other golfers. He throws far as hell, but there is more to it than that. The name of the game isn't "disc throwing for distance" it's disc golf. Anyway, I'm getting away from my point, It certainly isn't jealousy for this reason; I've only been playing for 3 years now and every year my distance has gone way up, and since I just turned 21 I've got a lot of golfing years in me, and soon I'll be throwin 450 but I'll be able to control my shots. When I practice, I try to throw smooth drives vs. the pure power shot. Do ya get it now. Or should I break it down even further for you?

Sep 07 2000, 01:32 PM
I don't belive that power is everything when your on the course. My longest drive was about 360 or so.(Cobra 174g). I find that my second shot either makes or breaks the hole. There are lots of times that I'll have a great drive and miss the putt. It is a lot like golf, just because you can crank one doesn't mean you should. I've only been playing for 4 years, so there are lots of things with my game that I need to be a little more consistent with. Next time you go out see if you can take someone who has never gone, it could change their life. it did mine

Sep 07 2000, 02:35 PM
It's of no real use if your drives are writing checks your putts can't cash.

WOW! You crushed the heck out of that one bud!!! Darn, too bad you're deep into the woods. Hollar to me when you find it.

Sep 07 2000, 02:54 PM
I don't think anyone's made this point yet: If you can't throw with accuracy and you can't putt, then it doesn't really matter how far you can throw.

Oh, and I just thought of this: Just because you can throw 400 feet, it doesn't mean you're any good. You have to be able to drive with accuracy and be able to putt to do well.

Sep 07 2000, 03:12 PM
There was a stretch a while back where reading about 450' drives was common. I always doubted those claims. However, after going to the worlds myself last year in Rochester and hearing about long drives in this years worlds, I have reconsidered the liklihood.

A know of 2 or 3 guys 'locally' that can throw 450' in an open field with relative consistency. But I think open courses that push the 400' mark on a fair percentage of the holes (like Ellison and Chili in Rochester or Beaver Island State Park outside of Buffalo) breed bigger arm players. The courses in the NEFA and MADC areas, imo, are not as open and therefore do not breed as mnay big arm throwers. So, I don't see them and when I hear about 450' shot drives i have doubted it in the past. But there are more players that can do this than I thought.

Even my own drives added 35' in distance by the end of last year's worlds (from 335' to 370' on a good drive) by my distance average range in an open field is more like 350'-360'). 450' is FAR but I think alot of young players (and not so young as well) playing at open courses truly are throwing that far in an open field.

How many players do you know that can throw in 450' range (notice I didn't ask how many of YOU can throw 450'!)?

Thanks.

-Scott

Sep 07 2000, 03:22 PM
Oh yeah, I wanted to add 2 other things.

Yes, of course 'drive for show, putt for dough' but distance in driving helps putts to be easier.

Shannon is right about the bigger arm player being able to use a more controllable disc on a 350' shot as well as that same player not giving it everything he or she has. A big arm player playing on a course with holes less than 350' still has an advantage. That player can nail drives using a controlled shot with only 80% of his or her total power whereas Mr. Joe 350' might have to use 110% of his or her power, hence loosing controllability. That player can take routes that others cannot (like up and over a tree with a blade...that gives an easy route to the basket...). A big arm player stuck in the woods maybe with no runup will have an advantage over a weenie arm in the same spot. Etc.

I play(ed) frequently with a big arm player and I have seen the advantages he has over other non big arm players.

-Scott (I wish I can throw 400' and putt with some consistency) Wolfe

discette
Sep 07 2000, 05:10 PM
Hey Scott, I personally know at least 20 pros here in the midwest that can throw 450 and a few who can go 500. I know a couple of am baggers who can throw 450 as well. If you come to a tournament in Region 10 or Region 6, you won't be cashing unless you can throw or roll 400.

Sep 07 2000, 06:09 PM
Returning to the original poster�s question, do you have to be born with the big distance?

The latest National Geographic has an article about limits of athletic performance, and one of the main things is fast vs. slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast for quickness and bursts of power, slow for strength and endurance. All Olympic weightlifters can stand under a basketball hoop, jump straight up, and slam dunk, even the 350 pound guys, because they have so many fast-twitch fibers. Disc golf driving is definitely a fast-twitch thing, more so than trad golf because the disc is only 6 ounces: it will go as fast as you can move. There is no way known to increase fast-twitch fibers-- you�ve either got it or you don�t�but the real distance kings are seldom #1, it seems they have trouble controlling that power on shorter throws.

The lighter your arm, the easier to move it fast, so skinny arms would be an advantage. Long arms should also help.

Serious power comes from the torso, not the arm. So �big arm� may not be all that accurate, but �He�s got the quickest waist in town� just doesn�t sound right.

Then there�s Dr. Rick Voakes who can throw 375 with no torso twist whatsoever. How does he do it? I dunno, but every now and then I�ll hit a 375 footer with no effort at all, so I guess a perfect release with just the right mung (a.k.a. angle of attack) can get an extra 50�. Maybe Dr. Rick is able to do that consistently. The doctor is never off balance, even on his follow through he is very upright, which makes for efficiency and precision.

But to me the real question is, what are the limits of Joe Average Discgolfer? A lot of the limits could be mental. In the sport of rock climbing sometimes there would be rumors of a climb in a new grade, say 5.11. Often a lot of climbers would soon be climbing 5.11, even if the rumors turned out to be false. The key was believing it could be done.

Sep 07 2000, 07:42 PM
6 ft of Disc drive/MPH of fastball. I've recently noted that there is probably a linear relationship between the speed one can throw a baseball and how far that person, if skilled, can throw a disc.

At a recent county fair, the highway patrol had a radar gun to gauge the speed of people thowing a baseball. My top speed was 60 mph. Not good enough for MLB, but fast by comparison to most andu

Back down with us common folks, someone who can throw a 50 mph baseball would throw a disc 300 feet, once they've mastered all the others skills of throwing a disc drive.

My 9 year old son has a 50 mph fastball (kind of scary, IMO). It's clear watching him throw a disc, that he hasn't figured out how to translate that relatively simple baseball skill and arm speed into throwing a disc for distance. His best drives are around 60 yards. He's got some technique and possibly grip/finger strength to work on. But he's only nine yr old runt and there's lots of years to grow and improve.

I'm sure there are many other players who are somewhere on this learning/performance curve.

It would be interesting to see if other experienced DGers might find their drives to be around 6 ft/MPH of their baseball throw to be about right.

If this ratio holds true to other DGers and if your baseball pitch is 80 MPH and you're tossing the disc around 400 feet, you've got some significant room to improve. If your fastest baseball pitch is 60 MPH and you can reach 360 feet, you'd probably do better focusing more on accuracy at 360 feet rather than wasting time trying to reach for 400 feet -- at least if you're an older geezer (like me) whose fast pitch days are behind them.

Always, Fred C

Sep 07 2000, 08:21 PM
I can throw a disc 350 but the best I can do with a baseball is about 100 feet in a high arc, it is truly wimpy. My arm feels like it's about to fall off, too. I never could get the hang of it.

They say Stokely gets 72mph with a disc on the radar gun. Could Nolan Ryan have gotten 100 on a disc? Disc-tossing seems like a stronger motion to me.

Sep 07 2000, 09:05 PM
I've taped some of the top distance throwers and when you see them in person a lot of them look like they don't put much effort into there drives, but watch the tape in slow motion and its a differant story! A long strech and explosive forward momentom that you never saw in person.
** Randy Johnston throws a fastball at 100 mph..
train me with the best trainers and tons of practice im not going to throw over 80 mph***
aka--I not throwing over 400 feet..Im better off practice putting 500, 30 footers a day...
Dave

Sep 08 2000, 12:17 AM
6 ft/MPH of baseball pitching speed is only intended to be a guideline of potential arm speed and disc distance.

* They say Stokely gets 72mph with a disc on the radar gun. *

Wow! What is his speed with a baseball?

I was thinking it would be interesting to bring a disc into the fair and test my disc speed. It would be interesting to compare the two.

Always, Fred C

Sep 08 2000, 02:11 AM
Last spring, Scott and I went to a Colorado Rockies game, and he did one of those booths where you win a prize if you can throw a baseball faster than 75mph. If I remember correctly, his best throw was 73mph. However, he was convinced that he could have done better if he had been warmed up.

Christi Stokely

Sep 08 2000, 10:43 AM
Just for your potential curiosity and reference:

I threw a baseball 60 mph at the Iowa State Fair a couple weeks ago.

I threw a disc (backhand) 62 mph a couple years ago. (I have thrown 458 in practice, 426 in competition, but normally throw between 330 and 390 when throwing for distance, and less than that when driving on a disc golf course.)

Stokely, without warming up at all, threw 68 mph backhand at the same event I threw 62 mph.

(Oh, and "discette", you are way overstating the number of big-arms in the midwest. I can't think of any that can throw 500, and very very very few that can throw 450. Classic exaggeration of actual distance from perceived distance.)

discette
Sep 08 2000, 11:06 AM
Hey Iowa Short arm, have you ever seen Jeff Harper throw. I believe he came in 25th at Pro Worlds this year, 18th last year. That man can throw a Roc 450'. Why don't you come to the Iowa State Championships tomorrow in Waterloo and watch Jason Steffan &amp; Tim Peyton make you eat your words. I'll be there.

Sep 08 2000, 11:28 AM
Uhhhh, I've competed against Harper in the Distance competition at two different Iowa Overall Competitions. The first one he didn't break 400, and last year he didn't break the (paltry) state record of 431'. But, yes, he is one of the very very very few in the midwest who can probably throw 450 (more than once every ten throws).

Steffen has competed in every Overalls the last 5 years and always throws over 400, but never near 450.

If these guys can't do it with 5 throws on level ground with a tailwind and no obstructions, then I don't think its fair to say "they can throw 450". Sure, they probably *have* thrown 450, maybe even on level ground and without a skip or roll, but that is a rare event, even for these "big arms".

As I said, classic exaggeration.

(If you want, tell all these big arms to show up at Overalls this year (I think it's Sep 30 in West Des Moines) and break that record. I think there are several that could (Harper, Steffen, Cannon Boy, Sprague, Claring, Pittman, Murphy, McLuen, Dev, both Peytons, etc.), and I'd like to see it. But none of them will approach 500 feet.)

Sep 08 2000, 11:37 AM
I've played with Jeff. Great player - but I don't think he's chucking rocs 450! Wouldn't doubt it if he's throwing high tec discs that far though. I throw as far as most - further than a lot. And 450 is a really good throw for me. You want to talk Big D on a regular basis - and a mere 3 players come to mind - ok 4, Stokely, Leyva, Wield, and Ferrans. Those guys can throw AVIARS over 400 - piece of cake.

Sep 08 2000, 11:52 AM
Craig,

First of all, Stokely can't throw an Aviar 400. That would be bad for his sponsorship.

Second, you better add "American" when listing only 4. I think there's several overseas fellas that can throw long with consistency. (And from the Distance results at Worlds, you might want to add Ken Jarvis to your list. Never heard of him, but it looks as though he throws a pretty stinky disc.)

discette
Sep 08 2000, 11:54 AM
Iowa short arm - Are you from Ottumwa? Are your initials BC? Are you going to be there tomorrow?
For the record, I only throw 275' so my perception could be wrong. But, if a guy is throwing at a 450' long hole, and parks it under the basket, didn't he just throw 450'? Was I dreaming?
Don't forget the up and coming player Jon Tissue. He deuced Frankenstein at Waterloo in June.
And how about those Minnesota boys: Gill, Smith, Shredder?

Sep 08 2000, 12:28 PM
Sure, muscle has a lot to do with a power shot but here are two others to consider as well....Timing and Tork.

I think a pitcher's throw has some very good similarities to a disc golf throw. Both throws are winding there bodies up to generate foward momentum (Tork) and both must release an object at the exact moment that the foward momentum gets to it's peak (Timing). The closer that object is released from the hand to that exact moment that the foward momentum is reaching it's peak, the better/faster/further the throw.

Good footing is essential to good Tork too.

So, some of the important factors that contribute to a long drive:

- Footing
- Balance
- Muscle
- Tork
- Timing

Of course these can be broken down and that there are more (disc selection, wind, elevation) but there are some to consider.


I'm sure there are more but there are some.

-Scott

Sep 08 2000, 03:50 PM
Hey Craig, this is Kurt from Seattle - I played with Ken Jarvis in Round 1 of Stilly Open. Nice quiet laid-back guy. He is a 100% legitimate 500-foot thrower. That 520' hole towards the fire station? He was pin high or almost pin high right. That was a hyzer fighting a left-to-right wind by the way. The next hole is 530-540 AGAINST THE WIND and I think he had a long putt except for the huge tree in the way.

He needs hardly any runup at all; plus he doesn't bend down much for power. But man, he can spin his lower body FAST prior to release. If I tried that technique (1) My feet would fall out of my shoes (2) I'd pull my groin (3) I'd tweak my back. All this before I even let go of my disc. God knows what would fall off after release. Also, my guess is that Ken wears a cup (for obvious reasons). See this guy throw if you have a chance.

Back to the original thread, yes I wonder if Ken and others threw long from the get-go. My guess is 90 % of big guns threw short to begin with. That would be a good disc golf article. Interview the top 20 distance throwers and ask about the evolution of their throwing.

Sep 08 2000, 04:57 PM
I think Iowa Short arm is a lawyer from Des Moines.

Sep 08 2000, 04:59 PM
OK Picky,

Yeah I can come up with more names too - sorry never had the pleasure of seeing Mr Jarvis throw. And the first time I met Scott at La Mirada - he was chucking an AVIAR with a 71 mold hotstamp on it. My point was that the "easy" 450 throwers are much fewer than the purported big D guys on the web. Let's see- other big arms that come to mind - wouldn't want to slight anybody inadvertantly http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Chris Voight
Tomas Ekstrom
Frederik Granasen - and 1/2 dozen other Swedes
Darrell Nodlund
Rivers Sherrod
Jim Myers

There's plenty out there - most are at the top of the game. Many more "think" they throw that far, most don't. It's ok - it's all in your head anyway - as long as you believe..........

Peace http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Sep 08 2000, 05:25 PM
Craig- I've seen all those guys except Darrel throw, and one of the most impressive I ever saw was Sam Grizzaffi....unreal. I threw a great shot to start a round at Berry's Treasure in Port Arthur- I think #5, uphill about 450 and over the ridge to the left (you remember, a blind 100' upshot for you and me). My shot was about 375 straight up the hill, in perfect postion in the middle of the fairway. I was feeling good about it. Well, I had never met this guy, and then he throws (I think that's what he did with it) and seriously, his disc was about 30 feet in the air when it passed the spot where my shot landed, hyzering right over the ridge. When we got up there it was right under the pin. Even after a great drive, a solid approach, and a 2' putt, I felt small. I asked him what planet he was from.
A good point to make is that if someone can throw a 500' GOLF SHOT, you hear about it, and usually not on this message board. They are either one of the top players, or people make comments about them like, "If only his short game would come around."

Couple other notable bigarms you left out:
Ken
Barry
Ron

Sep 08 2000, 05:48 PM
DM, I'll give you Ken and Barry - but if I had to add Ron to the list, then I'd have to add myself too!! http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Sammy is definitely on the list of BIG - but the truly BIG are very limited. Here's a few more for you - Randy Lahm, Jon Freidman, Jack Cooksey, Peter (<FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> - forgot his last name)

Oh that hole at Berry's treasure - I was usually putting at from 40 or 50 - couldn't quite get it over the ridge - nice memory though DM. See you at Winthrop this year??

Craiger

discette
Sep 10 2000, 10:02 AM
I must say that Iowa Short arm is indeed correct that my perception about the Iowa Big Arms is wrong. While everyone admitted that Harper, Steffan and Cannon Boy could easily throw 400, maybe 450', most of those others said they have thrown 400' and wish they could do it on every throw, but they don't. They are still waiting for 450'. I stand corrected, and humbled, as just about everyone in the world throws farther than me.

Sep 10 2000, 07:04 PM
getting tired of morgan and the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> chickin' wing anybody else?

Sep 11 2000, 12:21 PM
Hey, Craiger. Since you included Jim Myers in the BIG arm category then, I'd like to add John Fowler ,to your list of big arms. Even though he doesn't play as much due to college,( 4.0 gpa at LSU last year), he can still boom them. First, he belongs to an elite group, ( Moser, Mela, Myers and Stokely), who have actually shot the course record of 57 at Paw Paw. You need a big arm for that. I was on #2 a couple years ago at the Windjammer(?) when he aced #10 at Brandywine(489ft). I've seen him drive to the pin of #9 at Paw Paw, ( ok, he was 50 ft to the right and slightly past it). He is also one of the few who has parred #9 long,( past the 2nd pond). He is making it past the topmost crest on #11 at Paw Paw, which is a difficult uphill shot, leaving himself 40-60ft putts. IMHO, once he graduates, he's going to concentrate on his game and be a force to reckon with. I know that he really misses playing and even considered switching colleges just so he could get more time to play.

Sep 11 2000, 02:03 PM
Hey Craig. You don't know me, but I tried to e-mail you to ask a question about one of the big arms you listed earlier in this thread - but your e-mail hyperlink on your posting doesn't work for me. If you can humor me, please reply to my e-mail so I can ask you the question off the board.

Sep 11 2000, 04:43 PM
Craig- Albers.

And I've seen Ron land fifty feet past (granted in the woods, but past) a 450 hole at Meriwether near Atlanta. You're probably right though, in terms of consistency. When I was young, I was on the list. BUT, I have started lifting weights and already notice a big difference......look out!

Sep 11 2000, 04:54 PM
Craig, I was not able to attend any qualifiers (and as you know I screwed up the lock for the Top 20 with a 68 in the rain) but got the nod from Harold as the best in SC. But, the wife is 9 months pregnant. What with the two other boys, a new boy any day, and the full weekend previous with the Classic in Augusta, I CAN'T MAKE IT!! Breaking my heart- that is the best Event ever, eclipsing even Boylan's. See you in Augusta? Great warm up, and only two hours from Winthrop. I understand a lot of the big boys (and girls) are registering.

Sep 11 2000, 04:57 PM
DM,

I already remembered it was Peter Albers, but hadn't posted it - again - good memory. Didn't think I'd be posting here more than once. Back to the original though - yes there are lots of guys who "can" throw 450-500 foot shots. But guys like Stokely, Leyva, Weild, Ekstrom, and a few others do it with relative ease compared to the rest - which was sort of the point.

If we were going to try and make a "bigarm" list, we'd be here a long time. Certainly Steve Rico, and Steve Valencia could be added, but when it comes to the truly BIG - and I mean 600 the list is pretty short.

Sep 11 2000, 05:23 PM
Jason is right about the control courses in Madison. I've seen big arms eaten up.

Patrick: A few other technical points. In a tennis serve, only 17% of the power comes from the arms. Almost the entire other 83% comes from the legs and the torso. Same is true for those who hit the longball in baseball.

Fred: I threw in the 78-81 mph range in high school. Almost 40 years old and I hit 71 at the last ball game I saw. I throw tomahawks about 310-325 and often get 25-50 feet of roll or skip (imagine what the actual distance of that high arc would be if it were a straight line). Unfortunately, I throw backhands lefty (just the way I first picked up a disc) and only about 285 until the last two weeks of weight lifting brought about 30 more feet. I'm a massage therapist and I devised my own specific workout based on what I felt would help me most (I have good rotation, but weeny little arms).

Morgan: Nolan wouldn't tomahawk that fast. When you watch that type of throw as it turns over and back, it is pretty clear that it isn't taking optimal advantage of the disc's design aerodynamics.

Iowa short arm: The Drummonds throw 500, and Barry and Aaron. The two Madison Mikes throw 450, and Terry Miller. Chris Budzien at 17 throws in the high 400's and a local who doesn't play tournaments by the name of Keith Post, won distance in 1999 with a toss of 458. I think Wisconsin is in the midwest, and I once personally saw Budzien go over 100 feet long on the 305 foot 10th--with a putter!

Sep 11 2000, 05:31 PM
Iowa Short Arm, I've played at Sugar Bottom a couple of hundred times, and I knew A fella who could consistently park #18(600 ft). It was amazing. I'm completely in awe of anyone who can throw > 300 feet. I guess I'm jealous. My longest throws happen when I roll it. It's a sad state of affairs for me when it comes to distance. I can putt pretty good, and that saves me. My hat's off to all you guys with the big arms. I really don't think it matters how far you can throw it though, just as long as you're out there playing.

Sep 11 2000, 05:53 PM
Well, Craig, if you hadn't put Jim's name up, ( who by the way is a great golfer and he makes some wicked home brew too!), I wouldn't have asked to include Fowler who is just as consistent as Jim on the long drive. You are right, the list for booming 600 is mighty short. I've personally only met one guy who can do it...Stokely and he admits that his consistency at that range is probably 1 out of 100.

Sep 12 2000, 11:44 AM
Rumor has it that three of the greatest long arms in the game gathered at a location in the Mojave Desert over the weekend.

Further rumored, Chris Voight threw about one meter shy of Scott Stokely's World Distance Record [Scott was in attendance], and Sam Ferrans threw an unofficial 363 meter roller!!!! Any guesses as to the disc Sam used???

Sep 12 2000, 03:42 PM
Turk, your going to turn this into a whole new thread. I am a golfer who "enjoys" himself and "relaxes" during casual play, and I don't say mind numbing sentences like "whoa, dude, did you see how far that Frisbee flew?". And then the exaggerated and highly overused reference to the proverbial "munchies". And I'm positive that I can tell the difference between 300ft to 400ft and 400ft to 500ft. So maybe your entry was a little misconstrued, and poorly thought out; and who knows, maybe the golfer in question did park hole 18, you weren't there to say he didn't.

Sep 12 2000, 10:02 PM
Im only 11 and started playing about a month ago. i can throw my stratus about 80 feet (with the wind.) does anyone have and suggestions on throwing. email me at(human_17@hotmail.com} thanks!!!

discette
Sep 13 2000, 01:05 PM
Abram - The first thing I would tell you is not to give out your age on any internet message board directly linked to your e-mail, even one with nice folks like this one.

Second, I tell all juniors to learn all the different types of drives, and not concentrate on just backhand throws.

Third, the more you throw, the farther it will go! The Stratus is en excellent disc to learn with.

rhett
Sep 15 2000, 07:43 PM
Hey rumor-monger,

Was it an Eagle?

Sep 16 2000, 11:53 AM
Hi Rhett,

No not an Eagle.....

morgan
Sep 16 2000, 07:16 PM
I found this in the "Complete Book of Frisbee" by Victor Malafronte:

"On May 23, 1970 at El Cerrito, CA, Victor Malafronte sets a new world distance record by throwing a Wham-O Pro 92 yards using the behind the back delivery."

(In other words, the chicken wing)

rhett
Sep 16 2000, 08:56 PM
Rumor Monger,

okay, what Innova disc was it, then?

Sep 17 2000, 03:04 AM
Hi Rhett,

It was an Aviar!!!

morgan
Sep 17 2000, 09:04 PM
I located Victor Malafronte to find out if he thinks the chicken wing is as strong as the back hand and emailed him the following:

Victor,
I notice you once held the world distance record using the "behind the back" delivery. By that do you mean the chicken wing, thrown like a discus? I have thrown a frisbee that way for almost 30 years and have always found that to be my longest throw by far with big lids, but all the golfers these days are using the backhand for the longest throws and they tell me I'm crazy. Do you find greater distance using the backhand like Scott Stokely or do you still get greater distance using the chicken wing? I get about 25% more distance using the wing, it uses the stronger chest muscles and puts much more spin on it for longer flights before fade. I'm just about the only one I know who uses the chicken wing for long drives.

VERY anxious to hear your response on this one.

Morgan the chicken winger

morgan
Sep 17 2000, 09:07 PM
And here is his reply. (This is not a troll this is actually real and true):

Morgan,
My behind the back throw is done with the sidearm two finger grip. The chicken wing throw is also called the overhand wrist flip!? This is a powerful throw. But you can get better extension with the backhand. Most players learn to use the backhand throw mainly because it is much easier to learn. Sidearm is just a powerful as the backhand.

Rock n Roll. Victor002

Sep 18 2000, 09:15 AM
Morgan,

Not sure why you feel you have to justify and defend your preferred method of throwing. That's the beauty of our games, is that there is tremendous variety and opportunity for creativity. Any way you can grip a disc - you can make it spin - and therefore fly. I'm glad you get the most power with the wing - more power to you.
Now as for golf -come play. When you're the top dog with the wing, then talk it up as much as you want. Til then - have fun discovering all the plastic you didn't know about - and all the courses that are out there. The DG community is strong and receptive to new players - and people love to watch others with different skills. Maybe I'll get the chance to make YOUR jaw drop with a wicked thumb roller some time http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif .

Sep 18 2000, 01:03 PM
i played 2 rounds saturday with a player who used the "wing". the course required accuracy, the "wing" player finished DFL.

morgan
Sep 18 2000, 10:41 PM
DFL out of two people is second place, but it's good to see somebody else using it. I threw my first 400 foot wing and it was a thrill.

Back to the original question about 400 foot drives, and how to get them. I was a physics major in college and can name a few basics. The distance of the throw is going to be the velocity multiplied by time, with many other factors coming into play, but sticking to the basic equation of D = (V)(t) we see that we need to increase velocity or time or both.

A. Factors that increase time (duration):

1. Lift. If you drop a disc from 4 feet on earth where g = 32 ft/sec/sec, it will hit the ground in d = 1/2 g t^2 which solves for t = 1/2 second so the flight will last 1/2 second if there is no lift. If you throw a phonograph record, which has no lift, perfectly level from 4 feet, the flight will last 1/2 second and it won't go very far. You can throw it hard or soft or shoot it out of a gun, the flight will still last only 1/2 second if the flight is level. But when you throw a golf disc level, the flight will last until the upward acceleration from the lift is less than 32 ft/sec/sec. Of course the lift is a variable that changes during the whole flight. When it's greater that 32 ft/sec/sec, it rises, when it's less, it falls.

2. Spin. Basically, no spin, no lift. Often the disc will drop even if there is still a good deal of forward velocity if the spin has stopped. Basically, it doesn't matter how much forward velocity remains if the disc has stopped spinning, lift will drop to zero. For the absolute longest throws, the disc should still be spinning when it hits the ground. That's why you see the big arms putting so much effort into the grip, to make it spin.

3. Height of the throw. Obviously the higher it goes the longer it falls, but this factor doesn't help us unless the height came from actual lift and not from you just throwing it up there!! Height is only good if the throw stays horizontal so the lift vector points upwards or forwards. Height is good for ballistics, bad for us, unless the disc stays horizontal. If you just throw it high, the lift vector will point backwards and it won't go anywhere.

B. Factors that increase velocity (and factors that decrease the loss of this precious velocity).

1. Acceleration of the disc in your hand. The velocity of the disc when it leaves your hand is the acceleration of the disc multiplied by the time in your hand. Thus, greater extension increases the time in your hand and therefore the velocity. Newton's F = ma tells us that the acceleration of the disc in your hand is equal to the force your hand puts on the disc divided by the mass of the disc. Less massive discs get greater acceleration by the same force of your hand and leave your hand with a higher velocity. However, the mass of your arm is much greater than that of the disc, and your arm also needs to be accelerated, so the mass of the disc becomes almost negligible with golf discs. To decrease the mass of your arm, lose weight. Skinny golfers have faster arms. To increase acceleration, you need to increase the F factor, the force, and decrease mass (fat in your arm).

2. Lift. This force can decelerate the disc or it can be neutral, depending on the direction it points. It can even give it acceleration if it points forward while the disc is falling at the end of the flight. That's why you want the disc to fall nose down after it stalls, to get a few extra feet during the descent. Don't forget, what goes up must come down, and gravity accelerates the disc downward at the end of its flight, so you can use this little bit of acceleration to get more distance if the nose is down and the lift force it pointing forward. But this will only happen if it's still spinning!!

3. Friction. Thus, the beveled edge.


In summary, keep it level, throw it hard, and SPIN THE HELL OUT OF IT!!!!!

Sep 19 2000, 10:07 AM
Hey there big arm Morgan. It is not d=vt that is important. It is the impulse that you put on the disc.. the amount of force times the time that determines the distance.

Sep 19 2000, 11:55 AM
Why does a "college physics major" only consider high school level physics?

Sep 19 2000, 12:25 PM
I didn't take physics in high school or college. So bear with me while my feeble little brain tries to digest the above info.
"No spin kills lift." That would explain why my discs go ripping out there, then all of the sudden, they drop.
Does friction increase velocity or spin?
Are the laws of physics saying in order to get more spin, and thus more distance, that I have to grip the disc tighter so it will increase the friction, and therefore the spin. Do I have that right? Are there any other ways to increase my spin?

Sep 19 2000, 01:23 PM
I'd also like to add a little spin. I often seem to have the right height and angle of release, and then it just peters out at 285-300. I know Morgan is right about the spin/lift deal. We were playing winter golf and I was spotting and the big armed players discs traveled up to 25 feet under the snow and spun for upwards of 30 seconds (probably more than 30 revolutions). The weaker arms discs would hit the snow near the big arms entry points, but would only move 10 feet under the snow and spin for 5 seconds (7-8 revolutions) or less. Spin the hell out of it to keep it aloft!

Sep 19 2000, 04:58 PM
I just threw my first 400 ft drive using a cheetah of all discs. It went roughly 435 feet( i was on a football field and shot from the field goal post so its a bit of an estimation). The only thing I remember about the throw is that I didn't feel like I was trying to power the throw. Unfortunately my second longest throw was only 355 feet and now I can't replicate that throw. If I remember correctly, the cheetah never went above 20 vertical feet.

Sep 19 2000, 05:42 PM
Dustin, did you use the chicken wing?

morgan
Sep 20 2000, 12:11 AM
Matts, your equation Distance = Ft is noted, and we can tell Newton to forget all that stuff about mass and acceleration, balancing units, etc. Mattsian physics replaces Newtonian physics, right here on the PDGA message board. Awesome.

Thanks ronn witt. Don't forget...spin must outlast the throw. If you can't throw it, spin it, and you will do well. That's why the chicken wing rocks...more spin.

Sep 20 2000, 12:39 AM
I've been practicing my overhand wrist flip or "chicken wing" for the past week after reading all this controvercy here, and have to admit to getting some really remarkable flights with it. The strength of the throw is quite effortless and the strong spin is automatic. I really hate to admit it, but I have become somewhat enthused by this delivery. Wow, the thing really goes! Too bad the accuracy is still aweful.

Sep 20 2000, 10:18 AM
I played for years with a friend that easily threw 450' maybe even 500' . He gave Mr. Stokely a little heat every now and then. I max around 350' but our scores were generally close because I had much better accuracy and could putt. Problem was, on long courses, I might get to putt at say 4 baskets for deuce, make half. He gets to putt at 10 and makes 1/3 so gets about 3-4 birdies. It's fustrating because I may have a better putt but what good does it do when I don't even get a 'look'!!

By playing a LOT this summer (3-4 times/week), I think I have gained about 10-20 feet.

There's many long courses in my area and can count about 5 players that heave 450' another 8 that can reach 400' out of say 70 players. Those dozen are the guys that usually cash.

Sep 28 2000, 06:29 PM
Didn't read ALL the posts, but FYI, I'm from New Hamphsire (i.e., shorter, wooded courses), and I CAN throw just over 400'. My accurate/average drive is 300'-350'. BTW, I would think that there are a lot more "arms" out there now than ever before. The popularity has generated interest and research (this thread, for example) where people find out what it takes. They set the goal and achieve it.

Sep 28 2000, 07:03 PM
I throw a consistent 375 I can get to the hole but when it comes time to make that 25 35 foot putt ill probably make three out of ten .not a good percentage at the end of the round resulting in even rounds while others are under par and top third .I thought about not playing as many rounds and practicing only on putting.could some pros are top advanced players post there practicing habits and maybe ill learn something about being consistent on my game please post reply thanks

Sep 28 2000, 09:50 PM
Boxer:
I'm no pro, but I'm getting much better at putting by the shear force of practice.

What I did and heard that helped---
I built a basket and throw at at least 30 min. a day. It helps to have 5 or more of the same putter. Work on 20ft for 75% of the throws, varied for the other 25%. If you miss, make every comeback putt. Just relax and throw in rhythm. Use a mini. Reset you feet between throws. Some people putt hard, some soft; find a happy middle that will leave you in good shape for the comeback.

I also have 3 kids that run around screaming in the yard as I practice and ignoring them really helps me focus. The youngest stands right by the basket half the time and if I'm going to throw I have to belive I'll make it, because even a soft rhyno hurts when it clanks off the skull.

Now, back to the thread(sorry).

Joel

Sep 28 2000, 10:59 PM
Howdy Boxer

I hurt my arm chasing the elusive 400 foot barrier and decided to work on my putts instead. That old adage is true...drive for show and putt for dough! Most of the money I have won this year has been due to hot putting. I also had a bunch of "just out of the money" tourneys this year, from too many missed putts in the 20-40 foot range.

Practice is essential. I like to start close (15 feet or so) and work my way out. Putt from various angles in case there is some wind. Keep track of how you are doing by putting 20 times from a fixed distance and then figuring out your percentage by multiplying the made putts by 5. Try to throw 50-100 putts several times a week, but stop immediately if you are not concentrating (or in my case your back starts hurting). The money players in region 1 hit most all of their putts within 30 feet and a good percentage of their 40 footers.

Games are a fun way to break up the monotony of practice. A simple one is "disc", which is just like horse in basketball. Another fun one (don't know the name) is a bit more involved but a great way to work on your putting range. Mark out various distances to form a spiral around the basket. We start at 10 feet and work out to 50 feet in units of 5, but if you are a beginner you might want to go 6-30 feet in units of 3. Everybody gets three putts per turn (use three putters to go faster). Start out at the shortest distance, when you make a putt you move to the next station. If you miss two in a row you move back one station. If you make the second putt the last one is a "freebie" (misses don't carry over). First one to finish wins (but the others get to complete their turn). Small wagering is encouraged. The nice thing about this game is that you get locked into the range that you need to work on. Have fun, David

Sep 29 2000, 12:37 AM
Joel,

Learning how to putt in your back yard is like learning how to play basketball by taking foul shots. It doesn't work. On actual courses, you have to putt from all sorts of angles, from uphill, downhill, over trees, while standing on one foot, etc. I mean, if you live in Kansas or south Florida and the land is all flat...

But I agree, the game is usually one by making long spectacular putts, not 500 foot drive shots.

dsglfnpool
Sep 29 2000, 11:21 AM
Little Big Putter - So let me get this straight: Joel states that he is practicing in his yard and getting better and you feel it is your duty to tell him that he isn't because it doesn't work when you do it in your yard? What the heck are you talking about. Pretty much ALL of the really good putters that I know learn/refine their putting in their yards and not on the course. There are a lot of factors involved with good putting that can be learned anywhere. Heck, just being used to the disc hitting the chains and going in makes a hudge difference in confidence which leads to better concentration which leads.....

Terry (I putt at home all of the time and it does really help on the course) West

dave9921
Sep 29 2000, 12:31 PM
Terry forgot to mention that he's got one of the sweetest backyard practice areas this side of The Grange. He's got 4-5 baskets set up that simulate nearly every type of putt you could ever imagine facing on any course - through and around trees, down hill, uphill, side hill, OB behind, etc. There's even enough room to throw a few decent length approach shots.

I thought I was doing well with two baskets at opposite ends of the yard...

-Dave

Sep 29 2000, 12:33 PM
joel, i practice 100 putts(mim) a day in my backyard. it helps give me the confidence needed in tournament situations. keep practicing!!!!!! it will pay off!

Sep 29 2000, 01:33 PM
If you are cursed with backyard that is flat and devoid of vegetation you can set tables or lawn chairs at certain distances and kneel behind them to practice hyzer, anhyzer, pancake, turbo, out-of-the-weeds, etc. putts. There is no putt you can't manufacture. Kneel for uphill putts, stand on a chair for downhill putts, stand with your toes on a board for side-hill straddle. Be creative.

Sep 29 2000, 01:58 PM
Hey, this thread is supposed to be about 400' drives!

Anyway, for Morgan FYI, there was a guy at the '93 Worlds that threw an overhand wrist flip for his drives. Reasonably accurate, but not much over 300'. I didn't play in his group, but that's what I saw. Trivia: Anybody remember his name? -- kurt from Seattle

P.S. - yay, yesterday I threw my first 400' shot since blowing out my elbow in February. (Needed a football field and a beat XL and just the right wind to do it though).

Sep 29 2000, 04:35 PM
throwing 400' does not require alot of power as many think. people who whine about not being able to throw 400 need to watch the people who can more closely. if you get yourself turned properly and reach back farther then you can throw farther with less effort. a big problem people have with distance is that they get all balled up and think they have to throw really hard. for years i thought grab a disc and throw with all my might and i never got past 350. disc selection and disc angle all play a part in throwing distance.

Sep 29 2000, 06:38 PM
My yard has a few trees, a steady wind, and a ditch next to the fence. I throw from all angles:
upwind, downwind, around the trees, straddle hyzer and anhyzer, from the ditch, over the fence, etc.
I also am lucky to make my own hours at work and play 9-27 holes a day at one of 7 courses in or around Austin.
I agree that nothing is like the course, but the the practice does help the confidence.

Joel

Sep 29 2000, 08:41 PM
After drive 2 hours to our "local" disc golf course I felt like I pulled a muscle in my back getting out of the car. I still wanted to play so I took it "easy". not much run-up but just a nice smooth release. I had some of the longest drives
I've thrown on that course. I think most people have a lot of wasted energy in there drives..
--just watch how smooth the top player throw.
Dave

Oct 10 2000, 10:15 PM
I agree, When I started a wanted to throw far and get a record. See I live on a farm and got some roller dilley thangy that measures feet. So when ever I tried to to use all the muscle and power I had it would go about 100 feet but when I take it slow and go with the flow I can throw alot farther.

Oct 11 2000, 06:03 AM
If you live on a farm and use a roller dilley thangy to count feet, do you divide by 4? I think it would be easier just to count the heads.

Nov 07 2000, 07:38 PM
I'm very new to disc golf. Me and some of my friends got into it last week, and we have played 5 times since. We love it. My brother and my dad used to play about 6 years ago, so we use all of there discs.

Anyway, my question is why can I drive with a Roc but nothing else? I can get my roc 275 feet and almost perfectly straight (about 250 consistently), but I do terrible at driving with other discs. I'm unable to keep anything else low, or keep it flying atleast somewhat straight. I follow the basic tips that I've read online (pull across the chest, keep the nose of the disc level or slightly downward, ect). I've read that new disc golfers should stay away from Rocs, which makes me even more confused, because I'm very new and it's the only disc I can throw for distance.

Can anyone tell me what might be wrong with my form to cause this? Or is there any certain long range driver that someone who throws a roc good should try?

Nov 07 2000, 09:05 PM
Don't worry about it. If it works, it works. Have fun.

Nov 07 2000, 10:14 PM
what is the chickin wing drive or whatever?

Nov 08 2000, 11:05 AM
Brett,

Whoever said beginners should stay away from rocs is a goof. A blunt edge /mid range driver like a roc, shark, etc is an excellent disc to start with.

If you're having trouble with other, sharper driver discs, it probably is related to the fact that those discs have a greater percentage of their total mass around the rim. So it'll take a little more snappy to get them under control.

Patrick's right - for now - use what works. Learn the roc for every kind of throw - it will be your friend for a long time. If you want to learn some sharper discs a little quicker - try a long range game of catch with one of your buddies - this will give you lots of throws in a short period of time.

Nov 09 2000, 02:13 AM
when i started i was doing what everybody else did when they started and throwing about 100 and big hyzer but within a week i was at 200, 6 months breaking 300 now a year and a half later i've broken 500 several times...you just have to find a disc that you feel comfortable throwing and get a grip that puts alot of snap and rotation on the disc with out rotation the disc cant really go through the air at a rate to get you the distance you desire. but also distance isnt everything hell i can throw far and fairly accurate but cant putt for <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> and you have to putt every hole, with the exception of an ace of course. anyway thats just my opinion.
thomas kocurek 2

Nov 09 2000, 07:36 AM
ok getting back to the thread about throwing big d. When I started about 5 years ago..I threw about 300 max. Though I was only 14 I still claim it was practice ,and not growing up into a lanky <FONT COLOR="ff0000">�������</FONT>, that gives you some good distance gains. Im still sticking by the fact thats its arm spead and snap that give you huge gains. And you can practice and improve both. Want more arm speed reach back futher. Think you are going as far as you can? Go out to a field and tape yourself. Youll be surprised when you see just how much you are limiting yourself. Most of the time youll realize you are only reaching half way. It will be ackward..but thats where practice comes in handy. And when you finnaly do get to the point where you are reaching WAY back become confortable with it and snap harder.
19 years old....6'3...living in seattle
Toby Henderson
Not to mention Im a 475-500 thrower, 570 current best. (I intend to break it with the kc firebird or champion valkyrie) and I was clocked at 80mph ..good luck to you guys

morgan
Nov 09 2000, 08:22 AM
> >what is the chickin wing drive or whatever?

Steve, it's an ultimate/freestyle throw that works well with frisbee lids and discus throwers going for long distance but doesn't really shine well with golf plastic because it generates incredible strength but low arm speed. It's good with heavy lids because it has the power to cut through the wind and air resistance, but not very good with light lids or golf plastic where arm speed is key instead of power.

Nobody else uses it and I only use it because of 25 years of using it in ultimate. I rarely use it any more in disc golf, it wrenches your arm out.

The chicken wing is best in downhill throws that have a slight right turn at the bottom because it flies level and hugs the ground and ends with a slight right.

morgan
Nov 09 2000, 08:32 AM
I also don't like to use it with golf discs because they are so overstable that the chicken wing only flies straight if you to point your elbow way up, but with lids you can keep your elbow straight and not wrench your shoulder out.

Also, I'm saving that throw for when I play ultimate. I don't want to screw up 25 years of muscle memory. It's the longest throw for ulitmate plastic and if I use it for disc golf I'll forget how to throw it with lids.

Nov 09 2000, 01:27 PM
Let's see if any of you are in the same distance rutt as me. My problem is with turnover not power.
I understand that for a disc to go >500' it must remain flat for as long as possible. An XL or XS is what comes to mind, because of there excellent glide, and stable flight characteristics. An over stable like an X2 seems to fall of prematurly. The advice I am seeking is, how do I throw a moderatly stable disc like the XL with out it turning over and staying over, never to recover. Scott Stokely throwing 690' is amazing to me mostly because he got that disc to recover, and S-turn after throwing it that hard. The reason Scott's throw went so far, is because an XL glides for ever, even at slower speeds. Does he release with vertical hyzer? No way, So whats the trick....altitude....a grip that holds hyzer through release...tailwind? Thank you for your advice.

Nov 09 2000, 02:39 PM
"The woods are full of long hitters."

Nov 09 2000, 02:52 PM
"The winners circle is full of long hitters with control and a putting game." Think Tiger. Distance is good, too.

Nov 09 2000, 05:42 PM
Erin, in order for anyone with decent power to throw an understable disc with distance they must put hyzer on it. For me sometimes that means releasing the disc almost vertical with very understable discs (XL, JLS, Leopard, Cheetah, etc). It is hard to throw that way normally so I myself use very overstable discs normally (Banshee, DX firebird, Ram, etc.) and still normally throw with some hyzer. My longest throws are with stable/slightly understable discs such as beat up KC eagles and teebirds released with a lot of hyzer. Also, in order for someone to throw a understable disc they need to have the right amount of arm speed and rotation (snap). This is why Stokely throws so far. He throw a 500ft drive and it doesn't look like he is even trying.

forrest
Nov 09 2000, 07:47 PM
Erin,
Stokely does release with an slight hyzer angle. However, I think it is the snap on the disc that keeps it from turning over too much. You walk a very fine line when throwing discs like the XL, XS, and Valkyerie. If you are throwing for distance you've got many variables that have to perform properly. One of the biggest problems I see people having when they try to drive for distance is they throw out of control. What I mean by this is their arm speed is too fast and their snap is not enough. When this happens the disc will turn over and never come back. If you slow your arm down a little, and speed the snap up you can turn a disc over and still have it glide out of a turn. Of course this does not take into account wind, angle of release, trees, or other variables that can influence a disc also.

Nov 10 2000, 10:53 AM
A lot of factors went into Stokely's world record throw.

1) 360 degree spin = lots of arm speed
2) Light tail wind (which helped the disc pull out of it's turn)
3) Perfect alignment of the moon, the north star, and area 51.

btl.

Nov 23 2000, 04:33 PM
Because I am new to disc golf, yet an experienced frisbee player, I feel very comfortable with the backhand throwing motion. The first time I threw a golf disc(a lightning discs #1 driver I threw it 350'), since then by using better suited drivers I have achieved 480' as my personel record with a cyclone. 400' to 450' is average for accuracy. The strange part of my story is I throw these distances by simply turning my torso and taking one step into the release. I have tryed to maximize my power by using a three step run-up, or 360 degree turn arround, the distances remain the same. I understand that a run-up is meant to help timing and also to allow a momentum to build creating torso torque. This all creates a solid platform that maximizes arm speed efficientcy. Why is it that by standing stationary I get equal results? What happens when the rest of you try this experiment? Do your distances change radicaly, by how much? Thank you for your reponses.

Nov 23 2000, 07:10 PM
I don't throw far, but a three-step or 360 goes well beyond a one-step for me.

Hang around some long arms that use a 3-step scissors throw. You might be in the 500-club before long -- kurt from Seattle

Nov 23 2000, 10:17 PM
I've slowly built up to that range starting around 300' or so 6 years ago with a cyclone. No, I didn't throw 300' the first time I picked up a golf disc, but within a month, I had it figured out.

These days (despite what Lance thinks), I'm pretty consistant with an X2 up to about 370', with the occasional crush to 400' . The new plastic is a big help and I can rip an XS 400' easily, and 450' or so with a light tail wind, though with much less control.

Dec 05 2000, 02:56 AM
Hi there,
Are all of the 'big arm throwers' also big guys? Most of the people I see throwing over 450'(on video--our local course doesn't have any Big throwers as of yet) are Big (over 6') guys. I guess what I'm getting at is are there any smaller guys throwing Big? I'm 5'5', 150 lbs, throwing between 300-350' after about 2 1/2 yrs of on and off play. I'm still working on form and all the subtleties that lead to consistent long, controlled throws, but how far can I hope to throw/at what point do physical limitations come into play? I'm hoping 400' is within my sights. I should be okay next year in Advanced with an accurate 300' drive, but if/when I go Pro I'd like to be at 400'. I guess this is all hypothetical--I'll find my max distance one day--but if anyone knows of some 'little people' throwing BIG it'd be some incentive for me..... At least my upshots and putting are pretty good.

Dec 05 2000, 10:34 AM
Steve Rico, Cali boy is probably 5'6 and can crush 500'. ken Jarvis(cali boy too) same size, 500 , Cory Justice(mn boy) 5'8 500 , Jack Smith(mn boy) 5'6 115 lbs ringing wet, 450-500. It's all about form, practice, determination. Size I believe helps(longer arms), so it may take even that much more trianing. Stick with it and if you want go to The D Store.com and E-mail Scott Stokely, he'd be glad to offer up some advice directly to you. Timmy Gill #9293

rhett
Dec 05 2000, 11:42 AM
The Jarvii twins (Kenny and Marc) crush through technique....and brick-crushing grip. I've heard a million different rec players (okay, a couple) come up to Ken and ask how the heck he throws so far ("Wow, man..."), and he always says "I have really strong hands." Also, somebody around here has a picture of him right after release and his back is twisted like a pretzel. Total uncoiling explosion.

Dec 20 2000, 09:10 PM
Throwing far is the syncronazation of an increasing number of variables as you throw harder. As my distances have evolved, so has the arc patterns of my flights. At fist it was 200' in a mostly hyzered flight. Then I got it to go flat with a fade only at the end, 300'. Taking a stable disc like the Eagle and throwing hard enough to S-turn and only have it come back left only at the end gave me 500'. So my question is when a XL or XS goes 693'
what is the flight pattern?
At what angle did Scott release it?
What was the highest elevation that throw made?
Thank you for your help.

Dec 21 2000, 07:08 PM
Come on this is the last day my message will have a current posting, anyone know the logistics of a record throw?

Dec 21 2000, 08:00 PM
Not sure about Stokelys record throw(s), but when watching the other big guns throw purely for distance (at a D competition, not during a round of golf), they'll throw way up high in the air with a lot of Anhyzer, the disk will stabalize, then glide forever. Obviously, not something very overstable, because they're milking it for the glide.

Dec 21 2000, 10:13 PM
Jim Garnett and I don't ever seem to see eye to eye so I'm glad to read this. I'm not sure either but I totally agree with Mr. Garnett. Slayer posted something about Stokely not doing that anymore but I would have to hear it from the stomper himself. If he's throwing that far with a line drive we need to travel far distances to get to the clinics he's giving.

Dec 21 2000, 10:56 PM
Distance records are typically with 160 class discs, as far as I know. So if you tossing 170s for max distance ...

morgan
Dec 21 2000, 11:44 PM
He doesn't travel to his clinics, he throws them from where he lives. Please mail them back to him, though.

All kidding aside, the world distance record for masters and women is held by 150 class discs. So if you're a master or a woman throwing 160 gram discs...

Dec 22 2000, 03:31 AM
I got that quote from Scott's response to a question on the discraft.com site. I think that qualify's as "from the stomper himself".

Dec 22 2000, 07:47 AM
Slayer! What's up! I believe the question wasn't specific to setting the distance record. Or was it? Anyway, it doesn't matter. If I threw like Stokely I'd trip and hurt myself.

Dec 22 2000, 10:25 AM
Sir Wimp - They should've let Texas secceed all those years ago. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/lame.gif Someday I'm going to have to come down there and kick your aging hippie [*****]. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/angry.gif Anywhoo, here's the link: http://www.discraft.com/DRIVES_LONG_GAME.htm . Here's the (somewhat dated, but still relevant)quote: "In the old days we all went for big distance with a high anhyser shot. However, now discs like the X-L and the Cyclone are so fast that I throw them basically strait (sic)."

The thing to focus on is NOT the stability-type of the disc, but the speed/glide of the disc. Discs like the XS and Valkyrie move through the air more efficiently (speed) and yet are able to grab some air at the 2/3 point and still lift (glide). ALL discs get their own max D when they spend most of their time horizontal to the ground. How you get the disc to do this depends on release angle, terminal velocity, and angle of attack. It just so happens that with a lot of the new stuff that means flat, flat, flat.

Dec 22 2000, 11:44 AM
You didn't answer the question, Mr. I've been playing for 8 months.

my_hero
Dec 22 2000, 12:34 PM
Just relax, take one or two steps, and explode with your hips and legs. jm

Dec 22 2000, 01:31 PM
Good advice FOOS-BALL CHAMP. You could get good rotation on a tractor tire. I'm headed for Arlington baby.

Dec 22 2000, 02:07 PM
Hey y'all. I do think that for the most part, maximum distance is achieved by a throw that is closer to a line drive than to a big "S". Discs like the XS and the XL are so fast that it is almost a waste to use up the speed of the throw to get them really high. This "line drive" throw however is actually a little higher than a typical, controlled golf throw. It is just nowhere near as high as the old school distance shot where we were going for maximum heighth in order to get the most glide possible out of our overstable discs.

As the wind speed increases however I will gradually increase the heighth as well as lower the weight of the discs I am using. With enough wind, the glide becomes the most important factor again so I will adjust. At a big overall event like WFDF or the US Open, many top distance throwers will bring a number of different weight discs to the line and adjust based on the conditions of the moment.

Scott

Dec 22 2000, 02:11 PM
Last night, I talked to a friend who was spotting when Scott set the record in New Mexico. He says that Scott's throw was indeed one of those high anhyzers, but it never completely stabalized. It held the anhyzer line almost the entire flight, and landed perfectly flat.

Also, a further clarification on the throw. Even though it's thrown up high, the nose of the disk is pointed slightly down so it doesn't stall.

BTW, here's the rest of the quote from Scott that can be found at http://www.discraft.com/DRIVES_LONG_GAME.htm.
"...For actual distance throws I will increase the height a little and turn them over a little more but the flight is so inconsistent that I rarely use that shot on the golf course. "

Dec 22 2000, 02:13 PM
All you have to do is grip it and rip it!!! It will be good to see your ugly mug Randy, be careful on your way up.

Dec 22 2000, 02:20 PM
Fred wrote:
"Distance records are typically with 160 class discs, as far as I know. So if you tossing 170s for max distance ... "

Scott also addresses that question, as he threw with a 168(??) XL:
"I only golf with max weight discs but I am in a unique position being that distance is not often an issue for me on the course. Your distance will absolutely increase if you throw a little lighter discs for those shots."

So, yes, for pure distance, lighter is better, but how often are we throwing only for distance on the course? Even on those monstrous 1000' holes, in general, it's more beneficial to get an accurate 350'-400' drive to land in the fairway, then to spray something into the rough that might go 450'-500'.

rshelt
Dec 22 2000, 02:24 PM
It's all about getting turned around and reaching back. Also disc weight and angle are keys to record throws. Of course having 6'1o" body dosn't hurt either. Looking through the pictures of the worlds in dwgn there is an overhead picture of one of the swedes teeing. The reach back is awesome.

Dec 22 2000, 02:26 PM
Oops, I wrote both my responses before I saw Scott's post. Good to see Scott in here answering the questions himself.

Dec 22 2000, 02:29 PM
I get about 10% more distance with a 169g than a 172g. It's hard to believe, but there it is. The control is the same.

Pad Timmons told me that pros never use 170s in calm conditions. Stokely is unique.

morgan
Dec 22 2000, 05:21 PM
I couldn't believe the increase in distance I got when I first got my 147 g Cyclone, compared to my other Cyclone which is 178 g. The 147 soars like a bird and the 178 is like throwing a lead hocky puck.

Dec 22 2000, 05:41 PM
Stokely is lying because he doesn't want us to break his world record. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Dec 23 2000, 02:37 AM
I'm truly sorry but I still don't understand the chicken wing Morgan.I've read about it on other threads,but I still don't get it.Is there a video of it.

morgan
Dec 23 2000, 03:37 AM
There is a picture of me throwing a chicken wing in Stancil Johnson's book "Frisbee" that was published about 25 years ago. I was very young in that picture. Find a copy. Turn to page 44.

morgan
Dec 23 2000, 04:27 AM
Here, I'll scan it for you:

http://www.spa.net/~mwright/chickenwing.htm

Pizza God
Dec 23 2000, 04:49 AM
And people call me a hippie.

Dec 23 2000, 11:46 AM
You idiots,
That is a classic painting of Moses breaking the famous tablet of stone. Someone transposed that other holy object in his hand. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Dec 23 2000, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the photo Morgan,looks like a modified forehand. When all the snow around here melts I might try this chicken wing.

Dec 23 2000, 09:17 PM
Yes Morgan, thanks for scanning that. I've been reading all the posts re: the Chicken Wing with a lot of interest, but I still hadn't figured out what you were talking about. Now I can see that it's a sidarm-thumber.

Dec 24 2000, 07:44 AM
I don't think the chicken-wing is a side-arm thumber. A side arm thumber is equivalent to a regular forehand throw (spin). There is no advantage to using it. I have seen the chicken-wing thrown several times and the picture Morgan posted shows the disc upside down. The disc still has to continue to rotate until it is rightside-up, again. Then the arm moves forward snapping with a backhand motion. This throw originates from Ultimate and is also called the "overhand wrist flip." Don't quote me on this, though. Maybe Morgan would clarify for us...

discette
Dec 24 2000, 09:50 AM
Yeah, Morgan clear this up. The picture makes me think you are throwing a forehand thumber. It is definetly some kind of thumb shot, unless you change the grip before you release. Do you release with elbow by the waist, or in front of your face?

PS. My husband had that hairdo 20 years ago, and now he's bald. How about you?

morgan
Dec 24 2000, 06:20 PM
Good grief do I have to spell it out? The guy (not really me, only kidding, he he) in that photo is holding it upside down because that's how you wind up for the chicken wing to get a really good wrist snap. He's going to turn it right side up and throw from it over his head on the right side while quickly moving the disc into the upright position or close to it.

Here is another set of photos from the Stancil Johnson book of me throwing a chicken wing when my name was Tom Boda and I had short brown hair.

In order to upload this photo so you can read the print, I had to make the scan really big. Give it a few seconds to download.

http://www.spa.net/~mwright/chickenwing2.htm

morgan
Dec 24 2000, 10:27 PM
There's no way that first picture's a side-arm thumber. A side arm thumber wouldn't be upside down at all. It's a wing, that's for sure.

Here's what Johnson says about the chicken wing or the "Overhand Wrist Fling of Boda" (OWF).

http://www.spa.net/~mwright/chickenwing3.htm

Dec 24 2000, 10:35 PM
Today at the practice field, my dad saw something about my backhand throw that surprised me. I throw a long drive averaging 400 ' What he noticed is the disc has quite a noticable flutter upon release. Its an audible flutter, and the question came up, "Am I losing distance because of this instability?", and "How do I fix this problem? Grip, or snap problems? Any help would be great. Thank you

morgan
Dec 24 2000, 10:54 PM
Spin it faster.

I checked out that first photo over and over again, and I think it's quite possible the guy's ready to rip his arm underneath for a side-arm thumber, but if he was doing a thumber don't you think the ball of his thumb would be deeper inside the rim? Isn't a thumber supposed to come off the heel of your thumb? But you can see the ball of his thumb out of the rim so I think he's ready to rip his arm above the disc and do a chicken wing.

In my humble opinion.

Dec 25 2000, 07:49 PM
Erin
About the fluttering as it comes out of your hand how tight is your grip? If you tighten it up this might help make sure you don't loosen before release remember "grip it and rip it". The other thing could be which distance type throw you are trying are you flipping it over and S turning or flat straight release. I,ve noticed you are more likely to have a disc flutter when you are throwing overstable S turns verses a little under stable smooth straight shot less effort same distance. Just remember to grip it tight either way.

J.G

Dec 26 2000, 01:38 AM
Morgan- I think the first photo is of a "forehand thumber". If you replicate the position and the angle the camera is viewing you see that what looks like the thumb sticking out is actually the knuckle of the middle finger, behind the forefinger knuckle. The ball of the thumb is deep inside the rim. The other chicken wing photos are confusing to me. Where is the disc in the lower left photo?
If I've understood your descriptions of the chicken wing throw I think I have used it. It was my longest throw with a lid but did hurt my arm after awhile. I've yet to try it with a disc but will soon. The motion and grip as you know are hard to explain. I'm working on some pictures to clear it up. I believe this throw is one of the most efficient around and once people get it they'll love it. I wonder if you've used it to throw a roller? I play De Laveaga a lot and I think it might help on a few of the long holes.
-JB

morgan
Dec 26 2000, 08:12 AM
I disagree about the photo. He has his head down low as if he was ready to throw the disc over his head. The side arm thumber is more of an underhand throw and if he was going to do that he'd be standing more upright. But from the position in that photo, he could go either way. The thing you can't see is whether he's playing ultimate or not, I think from the intensity of his face and the urgency of the throw, he looks like he's playing ultimate. The chicken wing is a big throw in ultimate, one of the big 3 throws that everybody uses (the other 2 are backhand and 2 finger sidearm). Almost nobody throws a sidearm thumber in ultimate, it's a weak throw. I'm pretty sure he's playing ultimate, I mean, he's a hippie right? All hippies play ultimate, man.

You hold the disc the same way for both the sidearm thumber and the chicken wing, the only difference is whether you go overhand or underhand. Chicken wing goes over your head with the disc under your hand, side arm thumber comes from waist level with the disc above your hand.

morgan
Dec 26 2000, 08:31 AM
And I should add, that if he's playing ultimate, notice that there are no players in back of him. That tells me for sure that he's kicking off. The chicken wing is my main throw for kicking off because it's the strongest throw with a lid, and the only way to go the whole 70 yards plus end zones.

Yeah, he's kicking off in ultimate. Case closed, it's a wing.

Dec 26 2000, 09:40 PM
Has NOBODY ever read Charles Tips's book (foreword by Dan "The Stork" Roddick) "Frisbee by The Masters"? Honestly, people. On pg.58 is the overhand family. Included in this is the Overhand Wrist-Flip. Hold hand out, palm up. Lay disc on palm, upside down. Grip rim with thumb inside and fingers on top (outside) of the flight plate. Use fingers to clamp the disc edge on the side of your foream. Hold arm out to side and roll disc right side up. Lean on back leg (same side as throwing arm), **** arm back at shoulder. Lean forward, bring arm around (should remind you of discus thrower, only the disc is on top), and flip disc off of forearm towards target. Better yet, hold the disc with 8 different grips, deliver each grip with 10 different motions, and call them by any name you'd like. Sheesh.

morgan
Dec 26 2000, 10:23 PM
Not helpful, Bill Kilmer. Bogus trolling, man.

There's one grip and two possible motions in
http://www.spa.net/~mwright/chickenwing.htm

Which one is it?

Dec 26 2000, 10:25 PM
With 400-foot drives I think we've found Disc Golf's equivalent of "40-inch vertical jump" or "20-inch arms". It is also interesting how feet in a drive compare to pounds in bench press: 200 - so what, 300 - respectable, 400 - wow, 500 - impressive, 600 - world-class...

Dec 26 2000, 10:48 PM
Trolling, Morgan? Really? The book is real, the description accurate. Last time I posted a similar description of the overhand wrist-flip under the name "SlayerBill" you thanked me for saving you the trouble of describing it YET again. The guy in your scan is getting ready to uncork a sidearm thumber, most likely. It IS possible to turn that position into a OHWF, so, who knows? Also, my remark about grips and deliveries was about ALL possible throws, not just the OHWF. People just get too hung up on names and forget to experiment for themselves. Doesn't anybody stand in a field and just throw anymore? Chickenwing.....honestly......

Dec 26 2000, 10:54 PM
Oh, http://www.spa.net/~mwright/chickenwing2.htm is definitely a OHWF. A 360 spin isn't needed.

Dec 27 2000, 12:11 AM
No doubt! Slayer Bill is right! It is definitely not a wing! A fore hand thumb shot, I use to throw it all the time with old style frisbees, and still do with an Aviar. What's the big deal!

morgan
Dec 27 2000, 03:28 AM
I tried to answer Ian's question "what's a chicken wing" with that photo, I guess the photo isn't clear.

Okay Ian, start out like the guy in that photo. Hold it exactly like he is doing, with the disc cocked under your arm like he's doing, and from there, throw it overhand like a discus. The disc turns over so it's rightside up. Don't throw it side arm, throw it like Bill Kilmer says. Your elbow should be pointing skyward during the throw, and the palm side of your hand faces down during the throw with your thumb under the disc and your 4 fingers on top. Not like a sidearm thumber where your palm faces up and your elbow is near your waist.

They call it a chicken wing because your elbow is up in the air like a chicken.

It really is an awesomely strong throw, you'll be surprised how strong once you get it. It's hard to do with golf plastic though, you have to put tons of hyzer to get it to go straight. Use stable discs so it goes straight.

Dec 27 2000, 12:20 PM
Morgan what a can of worms,you must have very thick skin taking all the hits about the CHICKEN WING.Stiring the disc golf world up must be fun on some level.I've attempted the throw but it was not that successful,obviously due to poor technique.It's not a big deal if I ever get it but the idea of a different throw interested me.Improving ones game is the idea here and an insight can come from unexpected places.So everyone keep an open mind and have fun in the new year.I'm hungry,think I'll have some soup.

Dec 27 2000, 04:45 PM
Let�s get something strait, if you can't throw 400 ft backhand, you are not going to throw a wing 400 feet. Forget the WING! This bickering is stupid. This topic is how to throw 400 ft. anybody who throws a wing 400ft consistently is a not being honest. You will use less energy and feel more normal throwing a backhand and will get MORE POWER with a BACKHAND. Lets count the top fifty pros that drive with a WING. Or the top distance throwers. Hmmmm...............0. That�s right Zero! Please go practice putting. I can throw 450' consistently! Anybody who wants to challenge me to that statement come see me at a Supertour and we will go throw distance somewhere. I have measured over 500 ft in a few distance contests. I threw for 600 once with a 20 MPH wind. All Level Ground by the way. If you can't help somebody throw 400 feet the correct way, don't post anything at all. I will be the first to tell you if you CAN�T throw 400 feet BIG DEAL. If you make 50 footers consistently that IS a BIG DEAL. I can throw 400 real accurate. But to throw a 300 or under shot is very hard because you have to let up so much. Don't learn to throw far, learn to putt. If you throw between 350 and 400 and can putt 50 footers consistently, you will be in the top twenty of the pros. However if you wish to have it described to you still, I will be happy to do so if you are willing to e-mail me and ask. Click on my name. It will take me a little while to write that e-mail. I think it will be rather lengthy and I can�t type very fast. I can�t throw the farthest in the world but I know a few things about it.

morgan
Dec 27 2000, 08:08 PM
I threw a wing 330 feet about 3 weeks ago in a game with friends, dead straight. I don't think I've ever thrown a backhand that far.

Dec 27 2000, 09:13 PM
You need to learn a backhand. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

morgan
Dec 27 2000, 10:38 PM
Yeah, I know

Dec 28 2000, 12:23 PM
In an earlier post I asked the question, "Would flutter at the start of my drive diminish distance?" John Gregory responded that it might be that my grip is too weak. It already feels like my driving grip is as firm as it should be, my question is how tight is too tight? If I am squeezing hard enough to deform the top of the disc? If a player holds a disc this tight, is there a noticable loss of distance? It seems that if you were to take the concept to an extreme and continously grip it harder and harder it would eventualy go about two feet.

gang4010
Dec 28 2000, 02:07 PM
Erin,

If you are noticing some flutter upon release, it may be that there is an element of rotation in your wrist that is working against the planar angle of the disc.

The snap of the wrist is a fairly clean action, with the palm of the hand rotating pretty much perpendicular to the plane of the forearm. If however - your wrist is rotating during the throwing motion - an extra element of torque gets introduced to the throwing motion (alot of people do this inadvertantly trying to get more power) and this motion translates to the disc - which then has to spend the first part of its flight correcting itself. If you're not sure whether this is a part of your problem - try and notice the position of your hand at the end of the throw. If your palm is up - you probably are rotating your wrist - if your palm is facing the target - something else is causing your flutter.

Your grip should be tight but comfortable. Think of holding a living creature of some kind. A snake (so it won't bite you), a parakeet or hamster. You want to hold it tightly enough so that it won't escape, but not so tightly that you kill it. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Hope this helps.

Dec 28 2000, 02:13 PM
I hear you Erin, was just saying it could have been the grip sounds like it's not, futtering will lessen your distance. I've seen other players that have it flutter right after release and they were loosening there grip a little. The only other thing I could add would be to work on a nice level smooth stoke. Hope you figure it out. J.G

Jan 03 2001, 07:54 PM
The photo looks like he's playing GUTS not ULTIMATE! Morgan, how many hippies do you see playing ultimate? Grass filled lungs = not much running. The picture shows one of the hardest throws to catch in the game of GUTS, but for distance it is as Glum from Gulivers Travels says "IT'LL NEVER WORK".

morgan
Jan 03 2001, 09:20 PM
If you want to see dozens of hippies play ultimate almost every day, just go to Brattleboro, Vermont (they still have LOTS of hippies and Dead-heads and Phish heads in Vermont) and go to the old Americal Optical factory near exit 1. Almost every day are frantic hippies to be found, and hippie ultimate games are the best. They still have good lungs because they only smoke modern plants which require fewer puffs. However, you are not invited because:

1. you probably <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> at ultimate
2. you probably are not a hippie
3. worst of all, you can't throw a chicken wing

I never met a hippie who played guts. Hippies are all about peace and love, and guts is all about crush kill and destroy. They just don't work together.

morgan
Jan 03 2001, 09:29 PM
But I will agree with you, the chicken wing is the hardest throw to catch in guts, because it's the strongest throw of all.

Since we all know and agree that the chicken wing in the strongest and most powerful throw of all, we also know that if somebody can harness that power for disc golf by turning it into good arm speed, the puny world's distance record of 692 will fall and the only people who can catch it will be chicken wingers.

The future is to be told.

Jan 04 2001, 12:13 PM
Morgan must be a Cubs fan. It's good to see that someone can still stay loyal to a never-will-be. The Overhand Wristflip (ahem...chickenwing) is NOT, nor will ever be, the best throw for distance. With ANY plastic. It simply cannot generate the velocity upon release that the forehand, or especially, the backhand can. That being said, it is a viable, flexible, and aethetically pleasing throw for other disc pursuits, including golf. Just not pure distance.

Jan 04 2001, 07:14 PM
Morgan, your right I <FONT COLOR="ff0000">����</FONT> at Ultimate. That's because I have had 13 knee surgeries in the last 8 years and my running is not up to par, but I have every throw in the book in my bag and Bill is right about the wing never being the best distance throw. And Morgan any time you wanna piece of me and different throwing techniques I'm always up to showing goofballs how to throw. I might not have great legs but in 1985 Dan "Stork" Roddick gave me the name "the Gun" and thats not because I Carry a 9mm. And for the record NO I'm not a Hippie. But Where I come from the only Hippies you see are on that there yonder TeeVee. But as I said if ya need a throwing lesson just stop by San Jose CA and ask for me, I'm the TD,sales, &amp; lost &amp; found for the Hellyer course. Plus we need more players anyway and your posts usually make me laugh.

Jan 04 2001, 08:48 PM
Scott, I am interested in your record setting deuce at the Aspen Kiss The Sky tournament. I can't remember what hole, or how long, but I want to know what your technique is like for such an extreme downhill hole (or any downhill). What were the conditions and did your throw do what you planned. The wind must have had a more pronounced effect at that elevation. Please elaborate. Thanks, Boz. (PS was that a par 27?)

Jan 05 2001, 12:31 AM
I've seen discs go way past pin high on the hole, but what was amazing was how Scott's shot had, and kept the perfect angle to travel probably 800' then arc left another 250' to 300' while clearing the tops of 40' Aspen trees by a few feet and land in the fairway. The putt wasn't bad either. Well, as far as I could tell. All I saw was a little stick figure jumping up and down.

Jan 05 2001, 09:50 PM
Thanks Randy,

Your description helps me visualize Scott's drive better. If you have any other info (wind, angle of release, strength of throw, etc.) post it (or email me). Thanks,

Boz

Jan 07 2001, 05:27 PM
I'm new to disc golf, but I'm well above average in my ability to throw a standard frisbee, both in distance and accuracy. But those skills don't seem to carry over as well to disc golf. Am I expecting to much or are the techniques really that different?

morgan
Jan 07 2001, 05:57 PM
Your skills at throwing a frisbee with INTERFERE with your ability to learn disc golf. That's been my experience.

Moderator005
Jan 07 2001, 06:38 PM
Dex:

Disc golf discs are THAT much different from regular frisbees, and they require a much different type of throw. Nose down instead of up, a flat release instead of angled, and across the chest instead of from the waist. Disc golf discs will be awkward at first, but with time you will be able to throw much greater distances with them than with standard frisbees. Frisbees also don't work very well in the woods, they get knocked down too easily whereas disc golf discs can "power" through.

Jan 08 2001, 02:06 PM
Boz,
I don't recall wind being a factor. Driving the distance to the hole isn't that big a deal, but keeping it within a ski run with a chairlift running down the middle of it with 40' to 50' trees down each side is a feat. Scott took all of that out of play by being able to hyzer out and over all the obstacles. I'm not saying it was a knife shot, but I don't think it was ever close to going right. He'd have to say how hard he threw it. I'd guess 85%. I like seeing him throw the holes going up. It really pisses me off.

morgan
Jan 08 2001, 08:24 PM
Dex, the main difference is, like Jeff said, throwing across the chest. With frisbees you power them with arm extended using the shoulder muscle but with golf plastic you want arm speed. You get this by pulling it across the chest, it makes an incredible difference.

The reason this makes so much more arm speed and makes the disc go so much farther is, when you pull it across your chest you are basically accelerating the disc in a two-part motion. The first part is getting it to your chest and the second part is snapping it away from your chest. It's amazing how far it goes. The first part accelerates the disc using your shoulder and waist and leg muscles, and the second part is unfolding your arm at the elbow to snap it away from your chest. The extra speed you get from unfolding the arm is like cracking a whip. It basically doubles the speed of the disc compared to not snapping it across your chest.

But with a waist level frisbee throw there is no snap from unfolding of the elbow.

Jan 08 2001, 08:35 PM
When I started throwing discs, I used to have to run the other direction so I wouldn't get hit. I was bad. My top throw was about 75 feet, but my how the times have changed. I throw both a Gazelle and Cyclone 2 somewhere in the area of 375-400 feet. There really isn't a course here in Columbus,Ohio that can hold me. I need someone to design a bigger course for people like me.

Jan 08 2001, 09:35 PM
375'-400'. Those are upshots in Texas.

Jan 09 2001, 10:05 AM
Yea and it will take 2-3 375-400ft perfectly placed up shots to get a good score on holes #4 and #17 in Round Rock..1000 ft holes ..you gotta love this game..

Jan 09 2001, 11:15 AM
I just returned from Texas. I was only there 3 days and played the long courses. #17 at round rock is especially hard because of the basket being under water (we just played to the basket of 1 which added another 50-100 feet). I also got to play both courses at Circle R and Moody's as well. All three of those feature a number of long holes. My favorite course was Round Rock even though a lot of it is under water or very wet, and it is very hard to find your way around the course. Unfortunately I had to head back to Michigan were we have relatively short holes and right now about a foot and a half of snow.

Jan 09 2001, 04:01 PM
matt, was that you and your friends i gave directions to as i was throwing massive distance in the field next to hole 12? my kid, was getting more travel on the swing set behind me. that's why i insist on practicing in secrecy. i don't want anyone seeing me getting pointers from a four year old. hope you had a good time in texas. sounds like you played the best courses. i've played 9 courses in michigan, how would you rate moody's and circle r? ware needs to give the fans an explanation of how to not have a walk/run up an no follow through and still throw 450'. i run up 1/4 mile follow through 1/8th, hose my shorts and still get 400 max, on a good day and great wind with someone else throwing.

Jan 09 2001, 05:01 PM
Hey Paul maybe I can do a clinic http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Jan 09 2001, 05:59 PM
Maybee a clinic to show how to be a bagger.

Jan 09 2001, 07:30 PM
Paul,

No that wasn't me. I was only with one person. I did have to ask someone where hole 16 was. To bad I am back in Michigan or I could give a clinic for ya. Well, actually my standing drives are only about 350-400. I would have torn up Round Rock except for my 4 putting hole 8, and having three perfect putts (I mean dead center perfect) rejected. Did I mention putting is not the best part of my game.

As for Circle R and Moody's, I loved all three courses. We have nothing like that here (well Monster at Hudson Mills is pretty long), and I love long courses. The friend that was with me basically hated all of them. He only likes short courses that he is able to shot way under par. It probably is because he has been playing longer than me and his max drive is only 350. Moody's offered a wide range of different shots and even a pair of ponds to add to the excitement. Circle R small course offered a lot in shot variety as well. My favorite hole was #7. It was short and easy, but the view with the small water fall behind the basket is sweet. The only way to describe the other course was long and greuling. I don't know how anyone can play that course in the summer. It was only 60 degrees and we were dying out there. It was still a fun course and hole 18 was pretty cool even though it wasn't cool to my score.

Jan 10 2001, 11:20 AM
Pepper I think I will need your help if I do that clinic.. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif as soon as Worlds is over then its all PRO ...Already playing Pro in the mini's..No sense in turning down cash to lose the oppurtunity to go to Worlds...Nashville is closer to home than Minnesota and my Company is sending me up there a couple of times before Worlds.. So I am going to be able to check out the courses...I didnt play all last year to get points to NOT use them...You should really think about going to Worlds its an experience you wil never forget..Later

Jan 10 2001, 01:36 PM
Cware, I knew you couldn't resist responding. I was seriously considering it until my girl told me that she wanted to get married in St Thomas in November. I guess that's what I get for telling her to plan it and I'll show up. I will be hitting up the Texas and Oklahoma scene this year and maybe if I play well enough to consider it I might go to pro worlds next year. I respect your decision, I would do the same thing in your shoes. I know that there are a lot of the top advanced in our region waiting until worlds, I am just getting a head start. Jess, Chris Roundtree and yourself have your fun up north and then you can come and join Jim and I.

Jan 10 2001, 03:01 PM
I will be donating with ya soon..But I must play Worlds ..call me when you want to come down to crash and play the rock before Nationals..

Jan 10 2001, 03:23 PM
I was talking with Clayton last night and we want to try out Moodys place while we are there. We have never played it and heard it fairs up against circle R and Round Rock. I figure that we could have a weekend of purely big arm courses, if we have time we can play some of the smaller ones.

Jan 10 2001, 04:13 PM
if you come down early one Sat we can hit Moodys' then the rock on Sunday...you guys should come down for the Stokely Show when he is at Round Rock. that is gonna be AWESOME. Jan 20..2 rounds at the Rock...one is a glow round. which will be COOOOOl..

Jan 10 2001, 05:41 PM
Sounds like a good plan, I'll talk to Clayton and let you know tomorrow.

Jan 13 2001, 02:51 AM
Dallas golf was a blast. GREAT people.

Waterfall birdie 2's, and birdie 3's and even a birdie 4 or two golf...tomorrow...Circle 'R'...then Moody's and Round Rock in the following days. Yahoooo.

http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

-Scott

Apr 25 2001, 12:56 PM
Can anyone out there give me some advice?
I have been playing DG for about a year and can't manage to get my drives beyond 275 ft. In fact there are times that I can throw my Aviar farther than my Eagle. My drives stay fairly straight and low, but just seem to die out around 250-275. Thanks.

Apr 25 2001, 02:33 PM
Darren, find a local pro who can help you out. It's very difficult to diagnose throwing problems online.

That said, the keys to distance are:
- Cross step (left foot steps behind your right foot (assuming RHBH throw)), and your back is to the target (briefly).
- Pull the disc tight across your chest in a straight line leading with the elbow (the animation at http://www.discgolfassoc.com/throwing.htm is wrong).
- Don't touch the disc with your left hand. Reach back as far as possible to generate the most arm speed.
- Spin. When you release, it's like snapping a towel.

Theres a great article in the latest DGWN about distance. Theo Pozzy has put a ton of time into analyzing distance throws. He looks at the speed of the disc when it's released, the type of disc used and several other factors.

Apr 25 2001, 06:32 PM
Darren, videos will also help. At least they did me. There are '95, '97, '99, and 2000 World's videos available. '95 features Ken Climo, Crazy John Brooks, Mike Randolph, and (can't remember his name, sorry). '97 features Ken Climo, Scott Stokely, Ron Russell, and Rivers Sherrod. '99 features Ron Russell, Ken Climo, Barry Schultz, and Scott Stokely. '2000 features Ken Climo, Barry Schultz, Jesper Lundmark (crushing Swede), and Dr. Rick Voakes. This one also features the top pro women (Juliana, Elaine King, Anni Kreml, and Deb Renner), pro masters, advanced men, advanced women, and adv masters. Plenty of good form to study. There's also a video of the USDGC '99. That's all I can think of off hand. Check 'em out. I think they'll help you.

Also, take your drivers to a field. In a field, you can throw a lot of drives in half an hour. You can also pay more attention to your form, your footwork, and your release when you don't have to think about hitting a mark. Pay attention to the wind when you practice. Not only will this help you with your drives, but it will help you become very familiar with what your discs will do in different wind situations.

Above all else, don't expect to be able to drive 400ft in six months. It takes time. Let it come to you. If you set your sights too high too quickly, you'll only get discouraged. You will hit plateaus where you'll level off and feel like you've peaked. Don't concern yourself with it too much. You'll break out and start to climb again. And don't worry about how fast someone else is progressing. It just takes some people longer that others. This is experience talking. I've been playing for six years and I'm just now getting to that 400ft range.

To tell you the truth, I think you should concentrate on a comfortable putting form more than anything else and stick with it. Practice practice practice. ...The Colonel

Apr 25 2001, 06:56 PM
Colonel, while normally I'd agree that putting is more important then throwing far, the poor guy isn't even getting 300'. If you're a normal healthy male somewhere between the ages of puberty and geezerdom, you should be able to get 300'-325' without too much problem.

Apr 25 2001, 09:41 PM
Well, Jim, to tell you the truth, when I started playing, I could barely reach the goal post from the 50 yard line. I was so hooked that since the nearest course was 30 miles away, I would drag my roomates down to the school and throw every day. I think I may see one of the problems (listening Darren?). If he's throwing an Eagle and an Avair and nothing in between, maybe that's it. The Avair (actually Omega SS) is good for about 275-300 for me. Probably under 200 for Darren. The Eagle is pretty overstable for a beginner. The disc I got the best distance with early on was a Cobra. Great straight mid-long range driver. How about it Darren?

Apr 25 2001, 11:58 PM
Try a max weight shark...or try to score a beat roc from an experienced player...imo the best discs to learn with.

JH

Apr 26 2001, 01:58 AM
Jim, I've seen alot of things that you've posted and usually I think most of it is helpful or at least sound. I have to tell you, though, your post earlier this afternoon really bugged me. At first I thought, "Eh, you're just being too sensitive Mark. Blow it off." But the more I thought about it, the more it bothered me. I would email you with this, but I want Darren and others to see it.

First of all, to imply to a new player that there is something less than normal or healthy or male about him because he can't throw 300-325 feet right off the bat is wrong and damaging not to mention completely inaccurate.

I've been playing for less than 1 1/2 years and practicing distance throwing at the football field relentlessly from the beginning. Having spent years playing freestyle type throw and catch games, I knew the basics of throwing a disc when I started. Some of the top Open and Advanced players in my area said that for a Novice, I was pretty good from the start. All this with barely a 250' consistent tee shot. From releasing under the goal post on one end and landing anywhere from the 50 yd line to 45 yd line on the other side of the field meant I was throwing anywhere between 180 to 195 feet to begin with. I'm normal, healthy, male and somewhere between "the ages of puberty and geezerdom" but 200 feet eleuded me.

Now, after constant practice, competitions and advice from players who were a lot less negative about my capabilities than you were for Darren, I'm throwing consistently between 300-325. IT TOOK ME OVER A YEAR OF PLAYING AND PRACTICE TO DO THAT.

C'mon Jim, surely you can see how your reply to the Col. was terribly demeaning to Darren and other new players that aren't blessed with your apparent gift of being able to throw over 300 feet the first time they handle higher weight, overstable golf plastic.

Try to remember that alot of "poor guys" don't start out throwing 300 feet and that's why they come here to ask folks like you advice that will help them be more competitive in this wonderful game they have stumbled onto.

If I misconstrued your point, I'm sorry. It just didn't sit well with me since reading it earlier in the day. You're still alright in my book, nothing personal.

Mark

Apr 26 2001, 02:56 AM
Just to pile on, I was putting on a hole in Cedar Rapids today and groups were coming through one after another for about an hour. All in all I watched about 50 people throw the hole while I waited for the hole to clear so I could keep putting. The hole is about 280 feet. Out of the 50 or so I watched throw the hole, only one even got pin high. Just an observation.

In Jim's defense, I'm not sure he couldn't have meant that you won't be capable of said feat with some experience. Not that if you can't start that way there is something wrong.

Apr 26 2001, 10:30 AM
Earlier in this thread it said that long courses breed long arms and I have to agree. Lately, I have been noticing a lot of casual players at my local course being able to reach the first hole (350 ft). They might not have the most accuracy, but they do have potential. Our course is not exceptionally long (5500 for 18), but it has three at 350 ft, two holes at 400 ft and one that is about 500 ft.

Mark, I believe the meaning of Jim's post was to say that any male between "the ages of puberty and geezerdom" should be able to throw 300-325 with practice. For some people distance comes easy such as me. In less than 6 months from starting I was throwing 350ft consistantely (now 400ft consistantly). That was with a fair amount of distance practice in a soccer field for about 4 months straight. While I know other people who have been playing for 4 years and can't reach 320 consistantely. Darren be patient. With practice extra distance will come.

Apr 26 2001, 12:10 PM
Mark, and anyone else that took my comments the wrong way, I apologize for not being more clear. I was not trying to be negative at all. I agree that the words "...without too much problem" were poorly chosen, I should have said that with the proper form and practice, almost every male player, should be able to reach 300' on a flat open hole. I didn't mean the first time anyone picks up a golf disc, and I certainly didn't mean it would come naturally.

Yes, there are plenty of recreational players who can't throw that far. Almost invariably they have an incorrect runup, and almost invariably, they don't really care, they're just out to have fun with their buddies.

Darren said he's been playing for a year, and still only throwing 275' max. Maybe he's been using the wrong form for a year, or maybe he's only 12 years old, or maybe he's 90 years old, or maybe he has polio in his throwing arm. I don't know, but any of those factors could explain why he's not getting 300' yet. The fact that he posted here to ask means he's interested in improving his drive, so my post was intended to be encouraging. Yes, (assuming you're healthy blah blah blah) you should be able to reach 300' plus with proper form and practice. Find a good player who can spot what you're doing wrong. Most golfers are more then willing to help out younger players who are seriously interested in improving.

Apr 26 2001, 01:46 PM
Jim, your use of "polio", a horrible disease, to make a point is unacceptable. I had an uncle who had polio and he died. Well, he had polio for 50 years and he didn't die from it, but the point is, he died! Okay, maybe that's not the point. Did I have a point? Hey I'm hungry. Where's that pizza I ordered?! My point, Darren, is never go to the course hungry. POINT THIS!!

Sorry guys, just felt like ramblin'. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/crazy.gif ...The Colonel

Apr 26 2001, 02:16 PM
Thanks for the advice you guys who would like to see me improve. I will keep practicing even though it may take me longer. Whether it takes me another year or five years. What matters is that I am having fun playing, and trying to continually improve my game. I will be sure to pick up some videos. They will probably help me out. And for the record I am 22, and in excellent physical shape!

Apr 26 2001, 04:46 PM
darren, good luck and practice!

Apr 26 2001, 05:44 PM
Jim, that's cool. Probably just my "distance envy" that caused my reaction.

Hey Col., uh, have a beer. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

morgan
Aug 17 2001, 12:53 AM
Today I threw my first official 400 foot drive in competition. I've thrown over 400 before in practice but now I finally threw one that counted. Got three witnesses in my foursome. Hole 17 at Warwick, the 490 foot hole.

And don't tell me it's a downhill shot, because the hump is around the same altitude as the tee box and you can't throw 400 without going over the hump that peaks around 375 feet from the tee. My drive was still anhyzering when it got over the hump and flexed out right above it and landed short of the little trees near the pin. We figured it was a 406 foot drive.

KC Teebird, of course.

Aug 17 2001, 01:59 AM
congratulations, expect hair in funny places and your voice might get deeper too. http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Moderator005
Aug 17 2001, 09:59 AM
No, in his case he might grow boobies.

Aug 17 2001, 07:09 PM
It's a down hill shot!

forrest
Aug 17 2001, 09:53 PM
I think I might have cleared 400' once. I think I've even seen that Ryan guy do it before too (even though it was way downhill with a serious tailwind, and he got a huge skip with a roll).

morgan
Aug 17 2001, 10:18 PM
Scott, I asked you not to tell me it's a downhill shot.

Aug 18 2001, 07:15 AM
It's downhill until you get to the next hill. Duh?

morgan
Aug 18 2001, 08:35 AM
xxxTxx............................................
xxxxxxxxx......................................... .xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx..............................xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx..................P
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

T=tee
P=pin

Ya gotta get over that hump! Most people land on the hump or the slope going up the hump, but if you clear the hump it's a good drive and only big arms clear it regularly. Most of the time I land on top of it.

Oct 15 2001, 10:03 PM
I've been playing for a while now and I'm finally starting to get a command for my discs. I do have a strange (although predictable) problem with my drives, though. I've been turning over everything I drive with lately, and I don't think i'm throwing hard enough to where this should be happening. I've been turning over Rocs, KC Rocs, Elite Z-XL's, ect. I would think that I must be accidently using some anhyzer snap, but the discs never seem to come back - they just keep falling right. There's got to be something wrong in my mechanics. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks.

Oct 15 2001, 11:16 PM
sometimes a beat disc will start that try a brand new disc (kc roc) and see what happens

andyn
Oct 16 2001, 02:51 AM
Brett,

Congratulations, You're ready for a more overstable disc. The anhyzer snap will help you for distance shots and be a help with longer hyzers with overstable discs.

You can also try to release the beat in discs with hyzer angle and your snap will turn it into a line drive. Just a few thoughts, but sure there is some better advice on prior threads.

Oct 16 2001, 01:16 PM
Maybe you are rolling your wrist over and getting the nose too far down.

Oct 16 2001, 01:23 PM
Try a 3 finger grip. I throw a Z-XL and I was turning it over too much also. I changed my grip and added 60 feet. I was throwing 240 before, now I throw 280 consistantly, with an occasional 320 foot drive. Don't get another disc, go with 3 fingers.

Oct 16 2001, 01:25 PM
Oh, and on your Roc, try a fan grip. Pointer and pinky gripping the rim, ring and middle finger extended on the underside of the disc. That is how I throw my Roc.

Oct 16 2001, 02:21 PM
My Aero goes 400', what's the big deal?http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Oct 16 2001, 02:59 PM
Does anyone agree with the idea of using different grips for different discs? Advising someone to change their grip is rarely effective because everybody has different shaped hands. Like Chris Voigt says in the recent issue of DGWN, "it is an individual decision that has a lot to do with your hand size, as well as feeling comfortable holding the disc... DON'T give the grip too much thought at all." Anyone else who can throw over 700 feet is free to argue these points.
Basically, find a grip that feels comfortable, learn to use that grip to release the disc with no flutter, and use your grip of choice no matter what disc you are throwing and no matter what someone else tells you about why some other grip is better. I use the same grip whether I'm throwing a CE Firebird or an ultimate lid, because that is the grip that is comfortable to me. There are a million other more important things to worry about in your golf swing (like throwing across your chest, for example).

Brett, it doesn't seem like youre discs are turning over because they are beat up. Patrick made a good point about throwing the disc with too much nose down.
I don't know if this is your problem, but over the years I have seen many players turn over discs and quickly blame the problem on the disc being beat up or otherwise too understable, when the obvious problem is that the disc was fluttering when it left the hand.
I suggest that you first of all make sure that there is no flutter on the disc, because flutter will make anything turn over. The most important thing to ensure a predictable flight path is to release the disc with no flutter, and this is often difficult, especially with rocs and putters.
To fix this problem, start by using your grip to throw the disc a short distance, maybe playing catch with a buddy about 50 feet away. Try to release the disc with a clean, flutterless flight. You should find that it is a lot easier to throw a disc cleanly over a short distance. Then gradually extrapolate this form to longer distances, using more of your body to propel the disc.

rhett
Oct 16 2001, 03:00 PM
You *ARE* ready to move to Texas, aren't you dud? http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif The land where nobody throws less than 450, consistently!

Oct 16 2001, 03:19 PM
Sounds like that's where I belong.http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Oct 16 2001, 03:58 PM
However, 3-finger grip makes it easier to get more hyzer on the throw. Also, I have a more clean release, meaning less flutter. Basiclly, try a 3-finger grip in an open field for an hour or so. I bet you will throw better. After all, I had the same problems with the same discs and changed one thing to make it better.

Oct 16 2001, 04:04 PM
I think that flutter comes from having the nose too far down.

Remember, you heard it here first.

seewhere
Oct 16 2001, 04:27 PM
DGD you would fit right in here in TEJAS.. and I bet you would love the courses we have a variety..

Oct 16 2001, 04:40 PM
I need to figure out a way to sell the wife on the idea.http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

seewhere
Oct 16 2001, 04:44 PM
bring her in Mar for National Doubles and show here how Beautiful it is here..

Oct 16 2001, 04:54 PM
Perfect. We would have to be there for more than just the tourney. She would want to look around and see the sites. Good plan!

seewhere
Oct 16 2001, 04:57 PM
for sure and you would want to have time to play Moody's and Houck's private courses out in the country side..

Oct 16 2001, 05:03 PM
dgd, i moved here from santa cruz 4 or 5 years ago and i'll tell what, Texas rules! i couldnt stand the chilly santa cruz weather. and believe it or not, the land here is incredibly beautiful, and the people are as friendly as the legends that speak of southern hospitality say they are. i've never not once regretted living here. (and thanks to mostly to round rock i can throw 400 like any real texan)

Oct 16 2001, 05:39 PM
D@MN!!! I need to move to Round Rock!!!!

Oct 16 2001, 06:05 PM
I went out to the course again today and I figured out my problem. My arm speed was way too fast for my wrist snap. I started snapping my wrist harder and I got it to go on a nice, straight line. I read somewhere on the board yesterday that wrist snap is what prevents it from turning over, which confused me at first but now I understand the concept. Thanks guys. Oh, and does anyone have any tips for driving in various wind conditions? Like headwind, tailwind, and crosswind? I play at highland road park in Baton Rouge, and the wind is usually whipping.

Oct 16 2001, 09:24 PM
Tip for windy conditions: Park your drive so you don't miss all the putts.

Oct 17 2001, 02:12 AM
I threw 650 last week!!!!! to bad i used an Aerobie

Oct 17 2001, 04:31 AM
Brett, are you guys having a problem with the mosquitos down there in Baton Rouge? I just talke to B up in Monroe and he said there's a real problem with (I know I'm gonna butcher this)encephalitis from the "skeeters". One of these days I'm gonna make it down to Highland. I hear really good things about it. Wind = Whippet X. Remember that and you'll make out alright.

Oct 17 2001, 06:46 AM
i was wondering if any consistent 400' throwers could recommend a disc height and line (s-curve vs. hyzer that flattens and flies straight) for throwing 400. if anyone has any comments on this it'd be much appreciated.

thanks

blake t.

Oct 17 2001, 08:48 AM
My longest drives are usually 10-15' in the air. And it's mostly a hard line drive with a slight S to it.

Oct 17 2001, 10:41 AM
but they really don't matter http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Oct 17 2001, 11:31 AM
yes they do! http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/proud.gif

Oct 17 2001, 12:12 PM
Blake, my longest throws have a nice S-curve to them, maybe 20'-25' off the ground. Of course it's much more difficult to be accurate with that throw. If the disc is just a little too understable, it doesn't come back, if it's too overstable it doesn't turn enough. XS &amp; CE Valkyrie are my favorite 'D' discs. I release with hyzer, they turn over early in the flight, and finish back left at the end (ideally).

I can get 370'-400' on a flat-hyzer that is much more reliable. Again, I'll throw it about 15'-20' off the ground, and to the right of the target because I know it'll finish left. I prefer a CE Teebird for that shot.

Twice at worlds, I drove to the green on hole #5 at Kaposia (maybe 390'-395') with a Z-XS. That shot was only about 5'-8' off the ground, with just a slight right turn on it. Less turn than the picture indicates: http://www.2001proworlds.com/txt_kaposia/kap_05.html
The same shot about 15'-20' in the air is going to glide much further and finish left, but that's not an option on that hole.

Oct 17 2001, 05:45 PM
thanks for the tips jim. i'm very familiar with #5 at kaposia, it has killed my score and confidence often. sounds like you parked it http://pdga.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

blake t.

Oct 17 2001, 06:33 PM
Richard - I've played saturday, sunday, monday, and tuesday of this week and never had a problem with the mosquitoes. However, I was wearing pants the first three days. Been playing at highland for around a year now and never really had much of a problem with them. I don't know much about the disc golf course up in Monroe, but I know that their high school football stadium ("The Pit") is infamous for its mosquitoes. Monroe might have a higher concentration of mosquitoes in general. I guess it wouldn't hurt to wear some "off" spray or some other kind of bug repellent just to be safe. Highland is a great course, you should definately come check it out some time.

Oct 18 2001, 12:46 AM
I usually go back home (I'm in Eastern Washington now) for Mardi Gras Madness, so the only course I get to down there is Rivendell. I thought about visiting Baton Rouge this past weekend for the State Champs. School got in the way, again. One of these days I'll get my priorities straight.

This year my girlfriend and I are going to Bob West instead.

The West Monroe/Monroe club hosts a Southern National qualifier every year around Thanksgiving. You should check it out. They've got a near world class course up there. Completely groomed by the city parks department and right on the Ouachita River. There's alot of real good, real friendly players up there too.

Make the trip sometime. It's worth it. But take your bug spray. The course laid out on temporary wetland (the river floods about once a year and they have to take out the baskets) which is pretty fertile breeding grounds for 'em skeeters.

I'm not sure what stadium you're refering to as the pit. I graduated from West Monroe (currently #2 in the country, football) in '92. Maybe somebody has recently nicknamed a stadium that. Do you know what school it was? W.M., Ouachita, Neville, W. Ouachita, Wossman, Carroll?

Richard

Geaux Tigers

Oct 18 2001, 12:43 PM
Going back a bit in the posts...

Flutter is caused by unbalanced arm speed vs. spin. You'll need to use all 4 fingers to help get more spin.

Drew