Looks like I may or may not be the TD for the 2012 edition Pot Of Gold, which has grown to be the largest disc golf tournament in the state of Louisiana.

I could really care a less about who sanctions a tournament these days, but I'd like to take this opportunity to make this discussion board useful (like back in the old days before the crushing Stalin-like hands of tyranny took over).

Does anyone want to try and convince me if I were to TD the 2012 Pot Of Gold to sanction it with the pDGA? We can all use a good laugh can't we?

Just pretend everyone has an open mind like before the Politburo assumed control. Pretend this discussion board is a well-read conduit of information exchange that isn't censored, intimidated, blocked, monitored and slowed down with tracking software.

insurance is cheap...that's about all i got :(

You might get pics and a write-up in the next issue of the mag?

Some players do like ratings, right?

Upsides: Your event would be on the PDGA calendar. Your players would get rated. They would earn points, and their winnings would be tracked. These would count toward PDGA incentives like Worlds invitations and Touring Players cards. You might become a qualifier event for USDGC, Vibram, etc.
Downsides: Your players would have to pay players fees to the PDGA, and either be PDGA members or pay nonmember fees. You would have to fill out the sanctioning agreement forms and the TD report. You would have to adhere to PDGA standards for your event.

Hmmm, a coherent and non-threatening message from a pDGA insider. Am I really at pDGA.com?

Sanctioning the event guarantees that you have enough co-conspirators for felony liability on Louisianna law! :D

This pretending to have an open and honest discussion board is already paying off. The trolls are even offering free legal advice! :)

I haven't seen the master of pDGA apologies appear in this thread yet though. Pretend a little harder and see if we can summon more creative reasons to overspend at the pDGA sanctioning casino, I'm not convinced yet it's worth the cost.

http://images.mukki.org/11-03/6/tv_shows/Dateline.2011.03.04.Charlie.Sheen.Winning.Ways.HDT V.XviD-YT/Dateline.2011.03.04.Charlie.Sheen.Winning.Ways.HDT V.XviD-YT_screenshot_1.jpg


Looks like I underestimated how dead this place has become. This place sees less action than a frolfer's bed.

Maybe Happy Endings is on tonight? Definitely more life on that show than this place...

http://www.mamapop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Happy-Endings-Cast.jpg

mike,
You posted this on my thread.
"Dear Mr. Shive:

I'm a bit underwhelmed by your response and the pDGA's response to my request for an explanation of what benefits the pDGA would provide if I decided to sanction the biggest tournament in Louisiana with the pDGA.

Do you think it is wise to act as though the pDGA has a monopoly on sanctioning? It's been my observation that businesses that adopt the attitude you all have displayed usually end up being destroyed by competitors with better customer service and an
eagerness to attract new business."

I'm reposting it here so readers can see (posts #5 and 6 above) my original response and your reaction. There are two problems with your post:
1) You weren't underwhelmed with my response. You were complimentary.
2) Your question in the second paragraph has the classic form "Do you think it is wise to beat your wife". It is pointless for me to enter into a dialog with any such premise.

I'm disappointed. I was straight with you in #5, and I thought we were getting somewhere.

Peter I guess I should have stressed that I'm much more underwhelmed by the pDGA's response than yours. However, your response pretty much reads, "take it or leave it, we don't care if you leave."

I honestly thought someone would make a reasonable effort to convince me to keep Louisiana's biggest tournament on the pDGA schedule. I'm really surprised Chuck didn't even bother attempting one of his posts that attempt to rationalize the high costs of sanctioning with his exaggerated claims of the alleged benefits. Sometimes an attempted brainwashing by Chuck is enough to keep considering heaping an incredible financial burden on a tournament's players known as pDGA sanctioning.

I guess the pDGA is just living so high on the hog these days that Chuck's probably busy washing down some caviar-topped filet mignon with a bottle of Perignon that Nez put on his expense report.

Peter maybe you could ask the Tour Manager if he cares? Page him in the graveyard where the pro disc golf tour got buried perhaps?

UPM, as I wash down my chocolate chip cookie with diet A&W, here are maybe some new points to ponder. You already know my previous schtick so there was no point responding, especially since it wasn't clear if your post really wanted answers or was a disingenuous poke at the recently sleeping beast of this message board.

I don't think the decision to sanction is directly a financial one for the TD but for your potential players. If you have enough players in the region who are members and/or want sanctioning, it's probably in the best interest of the TD and the players to sanction. The players really pay the cost of it if the TD handles the event finances properly. So it becomes more of a marketing decision.

Secondly, TDs who are PDGA members are stakeholders that are a cut above the average member although they haven't been recognized as well as they should be up to this point. But I can see that improving based on discussions among the PDGA Staff and Board. The proof will be in execution, so the jury's still out.

As a special stakeholder, the PDGA at the player level is you. You deliver the goods - good or bad - regardless how well you see HQ functioning. You can make the PDGA look better than some may see it simply by running a good event whether or not you feel the PDGA deserves your expertise.

From your personal standpoint, sanctioned events play on a little bit bigger stage going beyond just those who attend. Your event is woven into the stats of all who attend. Your event is retained by the official historian (at this point at least) of the sport.

These aren't financial reasons for sanctioning. Just things I believe TDs who continue to sanction consider as part of their rationale for sanctioning. Peter may sound ambivalent. But from a practical standpoint, Peter and I can't persuade you but just provide a framework for decision making. It's up to your players and your personal goals for running events that should help you decide.

Thanks Chuck, I do appreciate the effort. In this part of the world, with very low pDGA membership, TDs often find themselves in a Catch 22, or a chicken/egg dilemma.

You're right, it is a no-brainer for those places with lots of pDGA members. But in an area like mine, where 80 to 90% of the players will have to pay the $10 pDGA tax, it's a big problem for a TD. If we match last year's attendance of 185 and only 20% of the players are current pDGA, that means we would send the pDGA $1480 in non-member fees, $370 in $2 fees, and $50 in sanctioning. That's almost $2000 that we would send in to the pDGA. The cost is simply outrageous. That $2000 if kept here locally would provide tangible benefits to our local players in the form of higher payouts, or better player packs, or incentives to other local parks to help defray the cost of installing baskets.

So Chuck, all the things you say about what the pDGA provides are nice, but can you really justify the outrageous cost? It really is a shame. If we can't get people to pay $55 or $75 for memberships to the pDGA we just can't get over this hurdle. And no one at the pDGA will cut us a break because they say we'll break their entire tax structure.

Mike:

Now we are getting somewhere. That is a great response to Chuck. When you specify the dollars and cents like that I can see exactly the nature of your dilemma.

You say, "can you really justify the outrageous cost?" Neither Chuck nor I could do that. In any transaction the justification is ultimately in the hands of the buyer, when he decides whether or not to buy. Is the cost outrageous? Again, your decision. You've presented a powerful case for keeping the $2000 local, and I wouldn't try to persuade you otherwise.

I'm posting here not because I want to torment you any more about the intractibility of the dilemma, but rather to suggest a strategy. Don't make up your mind until you know the details of the new membership category program the Office is currently working on. It is possible that the program may appeal to many potential Pot-of-Gold attendees, so that more of them would be PDGA members and not have to pay that $10 fee, which is your major external cost.

Where do my membership fees go? (http://www.pdga.com/faq/membership/where-do-my-membership-fees-go)

The biggest issue is just getting disc golfers to understand that monies paid to the PDGA doesn't just go to some black hole - it goes right back into growing the sport of disc golf. The attached link does a pretty dang good job at explaining what membership and tournament sanctioning fees are used for. Yes, this money could do a lot for the local club or to fatten the tournament payout, but it could also do wonders to grow the sport of disc golf around the world.

Where do my membership fees go? (http://www.pdga.com/faq/membership/where-do-my-membership-fees-go)

Peter when do you think we might know the membership structure & fees for 2012? And do you think there are going to be any changes to the sanctioning agreements & sanctioning fees? How about the 2012 preliminary pDGA schedule, any idea when that might be announced?

UPM,

How do you expect more players in your area to join with your attitude?

I just looked at the year I started playing disc golf. I'm fortunate enough that the midwest is very PDGA friendly. There are a ton of clubs and promoters who have taken disc golf to the next level in this area. Illinois had 11 total PDGA events in 2001. My only option was to drive to Joliet to play (1.5 hrs) or make a 1hr 15min trip to Milwaukee. A local promoter convinced me to join the PDGA in 2003 and I've been a member since. In 2011 Illinois will have 40+ PDGA events. Last year IL ranked #4 with 590 current members. The numbers continue to grow every year (events, members, courses).

You are the PDGA UMP. We are the PDGA.

Mike,

I hope that we have a new membership category plan in place before January 1. There is a proposal under consideration to double the player fee (from $3 to $6 for a B-Tier), but it wouldn't really affect you because the extra $3 would stay with you, and you could either keep it or put it back into your event. For schedule information, best to contact Tour Manager Andrew Sweeton.

UPM,

How do you expect more players in your area to join with your attitude?

I just looked at the year I started playing disc golf. I'm fortunate enough that the midwest is very PDGA friendly. There are a ton of clubs and promoters who have taken disc golf to the next level in this area. Illinois had 11 total PDGA events in 2001. My only option was to drive to Joliet to play (1.5 hrs) or make a 1hr 15min trip to Milwaukee. A local promoter convinced me to join the PDGA in 2003 and I've been a member since. In 2011 Illinois will have 40+ PDGA events. Last year IL ranked #4 with 590 current members. The numbers continue to grow every year (events, members, courses).

You are the PDGA UMP. We are the PDGA.

I'm sure UPM can provide plenty of real facts for his own defense, but if you can take off/look around your pDGA blinders, you'll see that Mike is definately NOT holding back Disc Golf in his area. Just from reading the SN website message board (once you get past all the cancerous bickering and petty arguing) you'll see that they are thriving and growing in NOTown.

no BEER!!

Mr. Valkyrie,
What exactly do you mean by my attitude? I'm sorry if asking questions bothers you. I don't have 10 years to build pDGA membership around here, and I just can't point to anything the pDGA has done for our local players to get them interested. Yeah, they make the Rules of Disc golf, that's about all I can tangibly show. Yeah, the pDGA has a website, but it's slow slow sllllllllooooooooowwwww and dgcoursereview has a way better course directory.

And when you say Illinois is at the next level, what is it like up there? What makes Illinois disc golf better than the previous level?

Sanction this event and help grow the game.

how are the two related?