Surprised to see that the mandatory rules test comes with and mandatory $10.00 fee.

But hey, now everyone will be a certified official. But, every three years, another $10.00 test....

Will I at least get a new copy of the rule book every three years too?

Time for me to Google Southern Nationals, need to learn what the options are.

JAB

Surprised to see that the mandatory rules test comes with and mandatory $10.00 fee.

But hey, now everyone will be a certified official. But, every three years, another $10.00 test....

Will I at least get a new copy of the rule book every three years too?

Time for me to Google Southern Nationals, need to learn what the options are.

JAB
The rules test is NOT mandatory. It is only required of those that wish to become or remain a certified official, or if one wishes to play in an NT or major event. So if you have no plans/desires to become an official or play an NT/major, keep your $10. And if you are running a PDGA event in 2011, guess what? "Tournament Directors of a 2011 PDGA Sanctioned Event will be allowed to take the exam free of charge" (http://www.pdga.com/officials-exam-2011).

Every time there is an update to the rule book, EVERY member gets a new copy in their membership package when they renew/join. So no worries there, you'll have your updated rule book at no additional charge.

Every time there is an update to the rule book, EVERY member gets a new copy in their membership package when they renew/join. So no worries there, you'll have your updated rule book at no additional charge.

Thank you.

In 2014, when I re-test, (Play World Doubles in Wimberly TX, a major) will I get a new rule book for my $10, even if a new updated/version has not been printed?

I am looking forward to the new rule book, my original one is worn through. Replacing it every three years would help to keep it readable while in my bag.


I (probably mistakenly) believe rules have changed, without a rules book update.

JAB

To J A B

To judge the validity, you need to answer two questions. First, how much money will the PDGA make? Second, does the PDGA need the money?

Last year there were almost 3000 players in NT's and Major events. Probably there were about 1500 unigue entrants, so the PDGA will likely take in about $15,000 from 2011 test takers.

The PDGA is awash in cash. The last report shows a cash position of $751,000, which is $323,000 more than a year earlier. This is so much cash that they are worried about exceeding FDIC limits on bank accounts, and are considering investing PDGA money in stocks and bonds or other outside ventures.

You make the call.

To judge the validity, you need to answer two questions. First, how much money will the PDGA make? Second, does the PDGA need the money?



Third, what is the cost of administering the tests?

You're guessing 1500 test-takers for Majors & NTs. 1200 TDs will be offered free tests, some of which will be among those 1500. So how many paid tests? 500? 1000?

What's the net per test? If they cost $2 to administer, that's $8 each---$4,000 - $8,000 profit.

Or a 1/2 %, or 1%, increase in our cash position?

The first year only, of course. Very little income the 2nd & 3rd years. If it's a money grab, it's not a very big one.

I'll get one free as a TD, but $10 for 3 years---$3.33 per year---is hardly even pocket change.

I'll get one free as a TD, but $10 for 3 years---$3.33 per year---is hardly even pocket change.

I am still wondering if I will get a new rule book in 2014?

Per the PDGA Pro Shop, a Rules book and Comp manual cost $3.00(plus shipping?) cheap for sure but, I still don't want to pay for a new one. That's why a still carry my beat to heck 5 year old copy.

If you can afford the $3.33, please mail me a copy in 2014.:D

Old and cheap, that's just how I roll.

JAB

You could always print it off the website.

Or probably look it up on whatever the hot internet/phone/gadget is in 2014.

*

Afterthought on the figures in my previous post:

There are enough guesses---starting with Peter's guess at how many testtakers---that the final figure is certainly wrong. Though it's probably not a lot of money, in the scheme of things.

On the other hand.....if we're sitting on so much money, and the costs of the testing is minimal, why can't we offer the test for free?

OK, let me address a few points presented here in advance of my column in the Spring DiscGolfer magazine.

- yes, we are cash healthy due to many factors including strong financial management by the office and the board, and adjustment of incomes to more appropriately meet our expenses over the past 3 years. We are not quite as cash healthy as you might believe by the first glance at our cash reserves. I just met with our Treasurer and ED on this subject last night. Assuming our cash reserves at about $750K, we are required by fiduciary responsibility to a) hold in reserve our deferred income (approx. $180K) against this reserve and b) to hold in reserve 3-4 mo. of operational expenses (approx. $350-$450K). Thus we are in a decent financial position of having approx. $100-200K in investment cash for the organization. We are aware of this, and are investigating how we can reinvest this back into the growth of the game and considering an endowment program to protect a portion of this for the long term financial stability of the organization. We will be debating both topics at our January teleconference next week.

- The income generated from the Officials Test that will be required of all players competing in PDGA majors and NT events will generally be offset by the expenses associated with this program, including the set-up and administration of said test, and the fulfillment and mailing of Tour Officials cards as needed. In addition, our TDs are exempt (and perhaps our Touring Pros - a motion is before the board on this right now - and yes, our Touring Pro board members are abstaining - and no, they did not bring this issue to the board's attention; another pro did). This certification will be required every 3 years, and we anticipate this program being a barely break-even undertaking at best, generating less than 1% of the total gross revenue of our organization.

We are working to strengthen our organization infrastructure and working strongly to bring the sport into a stronger future. These are just a few ways this is being done in a prudent and responsible manner.

Dave "Nez" Nesbitt
PDGA Commissioner & Board President

Thanks for the post, Dave

Thanks, Dave!

While so many worry about whether or not the PDGA is going to make money from requiring officials to re-take the exam every three years, the point that has been missed is this.

In most every sport that has referees or umpires, etc...most have to re-certify annually. I know a couple of guys that are football refs and they have to take a refresher every year. Another guy I know is a baseball ump (Jr. & Sr. High level) and he has to re-certify every two years. My son refs soccer and has to re-certify every year. Each time there is a fee involved. Should all those folks complain that someone is making money because we have to re-certify every year...:(

The point is every three years is pretty liberal and $10 is pretty cheap. So, don't spend the $10 and don't be an official. It is really simple. And if the PDGA makes a few bucks (which they aren't on this) good, they have salaries to pay, expenses to cover (this web site is one) and other things to do to stay in business.

I for one will be retaking the officials exam and even if I do decide to TD a tourney this year, I'm sending the $10 anyway.

Thanks for all you guys who volunteer and thanks for all the work everyone on staff does. I for one want to see your salary met.

if I am not exempt from having to pay the $10 then the touring pros should not be exempt either

If exempt, it will be interesting to see how a touring pro is defined. Where is the line drawn?

if I am not exempt from having to pay the $10 then the touring pros should not be exempt either
Since passing the test is required for Pros to play in NTs and Majors, my guess would be that if they adopt a policy to waive fees for "touring pros" they would be defined as any pro who enters one of those events.

oh ok so since I entered the masters cup which is a major I am a "touring pro" sweet!!! send me the free link to take the test.

I think you have to wait and see if the proposal is approved at their Board meeting this week.

oh ok so since I entered the masters cup which is a major I am a "touring pro" sweet!!! send me the free link to take the test.

There is no Masters Cup this year - the city is hosting the PRO Worlds instead -you might mean US Masters though huh? :)

Keith, you down for Friday Bellagio Buffet at GCC?

yes US masters still a Major. thanks Keith

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/10TouringPros.pdf

In order to qualify, players must meet one or more of the following qualification standards, and have been current PDGA members in 2010.
Qualification Standards
1 - PDGA World Champions 2006-2010 (last 5 years) in Pro Divisions (Singles Events Only)
2 - United States Champions 2006-2010 in Pro Divisions (last 5 years) (Singles Events Only)
3 - 2010 National Tour and SuperTour Winners in the MPO and FPO Divisions
4 - Player Rating of 1000+ (Men) or 930+ (Women) as of Feb 2011 ratings update
- Players qualifying under 1-4 above must have played in 8+ events and won $2750+ (Male Players) / $1500+ (Female Players) in 2010
5 - 2010 Tour Cash Won - Male Players $4000+, Female Players $2000+
6 - Pro Men who played 20+ events and won $3500+ in 2010

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/10TouringPros.pdf

In order to qualify, players must meet one or more of the following qualification standards, and have been current PDGA members in 2010.
Qualification Standards
1 - PDGA World Champions 2006-2010 (last 5 years) in Pro Divisions (Singles Events Only)
2 - United States Champions 2006-2010 in Pro Divisions (last 5 years) (Singles Events Only)
3 - 2010 National Tour and SuperTour Winners in the MPO and FPO Divisions
4 - Player Rating of 1000+ (Men) or 930+ (Women) as of Feb 2011 ratings update
- Players qualifying under 1-4 above must have played in 8+ events and won $2750+ (Male Players) / $1500+ (Female Players) in 2010
5 - 2010 Tour Cash Won - Male Players $4000+, Female Players $2000+
6 - Pro Men who played 20+ events and won $3500+ in 2009


Yay, touring pro means something again after a two year layoff! Even if all it really entails is saving $10 it is better than nothing.

Keith, you down for Friday Bellagio Buffet at GCC?

Do you even need to ask that? :)

yes US masters still a Major. thanks Keith

Just giving you a hard time Chris, while I'm locked in my subdivision by ice for 3 days so far.

Look forward to your weather forecast for the US Masters that better be alot warmer than this week has been. :)

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/10TouringPros.pdf

In order to qualify, players must meet one or more of the following qualification standards, and have been current PDGA members in 2010.
Qualification Standards
1 - PDGA World Champions 2006-2010 (last 5 years) in Pro Divisions (Singles Events Only)
2 - United States Champions 2006-2010 in Pro Divisions (last 5 years) (Singles Events Only)
3 - 2010 National Tour and SuperTour Winners in the MPO and FPO Divisions
4 - Player Rating of 1000+ (Men) or 930+ (Women) as of Feb 2011 ratings update
- Players qualifying under 1-4 above must have played in 8+ events and won $2750+ (Male Players) / $1500+ (Female Players) in 2010
5 - 2010 Tour Cash Won - Male Players $4000+, Female Players $2000+
6 - Pro Men who played 20+ events and won $3500+ in 2009

Well if #6 is 2010 instead of 2009 like I think it is/should be I made it by 20 bucks! (30 Events -$3520 won!) Then I could save my $10 bucks that way versus from being TD of 6 Events :)

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/10TouringPros.pdf

In order to qualify, players must meet one or more of the following qualification standards, and have been current PDGA members in 2010.
Qualification Standards
1 - PDGA World Champions 2006-2010 (last 5 years) in Pro Divisions (Singles Events Only)
2 - United States Champions 2006-2010 in Pro Divisions (last 5 years) (Singles Events Only)
3 - 2010 National Tour and SuperTour Winners in the MPO and FPO Divisions
4 - Player Rating of 1000+ (Men) or 930+ (Women) as of Feb 2011 ratings update
- Players qualifying under 1-4 above must have played in 8+ events and won $2750+ (Male Players) / $1500+ (Female Players) in 2010
5 - 2010 Tour Cash Won - Male Players $4000+, Female Players $2000+
6 - Pro Men who played 20+ events and won $3500+ in 2009

I do not understand how the ability to compete at a high level confers an understanding of the rules.

That said, I do wish that I had titled this tread something other than "money grab".

Now to my question:

In 2014, when I have to re-test, do to my skill set and desire to compete at World Doubles in Wimberly, TX. Will I receive a New Copy of the Rules and Competition manual for my $10 testing fee?

For ever an Am. but, still supporting the PDGA.

JAB

You'll likely receive another new copy of the Rules and Comp manual before 2014 since the RC did not complete all of the rules updates they wanted to for 2011.

The PDGA board did pass a motion last night exempting Touring Pros from the cost of the Officials Exam, however they will be required to take the exam like all other players.

I do not understand how the ability to compete at a high level confers an understanding of the rules.
Based on all my experiences with players that have the ability to compete at a high level (the highest level, even), that ability has little to no bearing on their ability to know and understand the rules. In fact, some of the more stubborn arguments I've heard for some "non-rule" rules have come from some highly skilled players. Sometimes I wonder if their reputation causes folks to acquiesce to them too easily, perpetuating the validity of those "non-rule" interpretations in the minds of some players.

All that said, I'd hope the new rules test have a bit more challenge to it, at least more than the Rules Proficiency exam had last year. Officials and players alike should be challenged to earn that Officials Card.

All that said, I'd hope the new rules test have a bit more challenge to it, at least more than the Rules Proficiency exam had last year. Officials and players alike should be challenged to earn that Officials Card.

As someone who helped run two National Tour events last year and was asked to administer a written Rules Proficiency exam to about a dozen competitors, some of which were Touring pros (and despite being given a Rulebook and being an open book test) who failed the test multiple times, I think it wasn't as easy as you claim. :D

As someone who helped run two National Tour events last year and was asked to administer a written Rules Proficiency exam to about a dozen competitors, some of which were Touring pros (and despite being given a Rulebook and being an open book test) who failed the test multiple times, I think it wasn't as easy as you claim. :D

It was.....the question I missed was a bogus question about a 2m rule call but nowhere in the question was it mentioned that the 2m was in effect and thus there would be no penalty under our current rules.....but that wasn't an answer choice.

The PDGA board did pass a motion last night exempting Touring Pros from the cost of the Officials Exam, however they will be required to take the exam like all other players.

Was #6 a typo as I expect from your earlier post? - Never was answered or addressed.

Was #6 a typo as I expect from your earlier post? - Never was answered or addressed.

Not sure what you are referencing, but I did go back and correct my original post from 2009 to 2010.

As someone who helped run two National Tour events last year and was asked to administer a written Rules Proficiency exam to about a dozen competitors, some of which were Touring pros (and despite being given a Rulebook and being an open book test) who failed the test multiple times, I think it wasn't as easy as you claim. :D
See, Jeff, that's where the first half of my post comes into play. You say the test must be hard because there were "touring pros" who failed multiple times. I say those "touring pros" don't know the rules as well as they think they do or as well as most people assume they should.

See, Jeff, that's where the first half of my post comes into play. You say the test must be hard because there were "touring pros" who failed multiple times. I say those "touring pros" don't know the rules as well as they think they do or as well as most people assume they should.

I agree with this.....and they do use their "name/s" to get the group to side with them in many cases.

This happens even more with the women from the stories I have heard.

Not sure what you are referencing, but I did go back and correct my original post from 2009 to 2010.

Well seeing that I quoted it, and that I also made the year bold in the same quote 4 posts after yours - I figured you would know what I was referencing when asking again 24 hours and 10 posts later. :)

Thanks for correcting it Dave,
and to Mr. Hall - I'm now a touring pro - same as Matt is - take that you 1000+ rated young guy. :)

so as i understand it tour pros get to save $10 if they qualify for the status by the rules posted earlier? so for us lowely ams that are thinking about going to am worlds (a major right?)or testing our luck at any major or NT surely are not tour pros so we pay the $10.How about everyone that has 10+years as a member gets to save that $10?How does it make since to give the discount to the top 10% or w/e it is that fall into the tour pro status since there the ones actually making $ doing this sport we love and the ones that just love to play, pay there $ and know over 50% of the time they wont cash at all.Also since this was not (or at least i didnt notice)explained when i renewed my PDGA membership what recourse would one have if they didnt agree to this new fee...a refund?

Not thrilled to shell out $10 to be recertified. Took care of "Touring Pros" and TD's, not a pretty picture to paint for the rest of us smucks. In New Jersey will call this taxation.

pdga only cares about the touring pros and TD,s I did not see anywhere on the test to be exempt from the $10 for TD's so how does that work?

pdga only cares about the touring pros and TD,s I did not see anywhere on the test to be exempt from the $10 for TD's so how does that work?

"Tournament Directors of a 2011 PDGA Sanctioned Event will be allowed to take the exam free of charge" (http://www.pdga.com/officials-exam-2011)

I imagine that when the sanctioning agreement and fees are submitted for an event, the TD of record is sent the test (or a password or special link for the online exam) without requiring them to send in the $10 payment.

For TDs, I understand entirely why their fee would be waived. They're putting the time and energy to create and run a PDGA event, which is going to bring in money for the PDGA. The least the PDGA can do is waive the $10 for those individiuals who volunteer.

For touring pros though, why does being good at the game save them the $10 fee? If they don't want to pay the fee, they don't have to play in the events that require one to pass the rules exam. Same as every other member of the organization. I'd love to hear the arguments for this even being brought to a vote by the BOD. I understand it wasn't the touring players on the board that did it (and that they abstained from the vote). I still would love to hear the case.

The test has a bad question, someone takes their second shot and makes it for a three... Please change the wording to...so and so takes their third shot for a three or their second shot for a two..

The wording is being clarified but if you read it as is, it's not incorrect: "A competitor accidentally plays his second shot from another player's lie and makes the putt for a three." I suggested they add the word "subsequent" before the word "putt" for clarity.

Agreed, it's testing your ability to read questions, not testing if you know or know how to find the rule, I got it wrong and knew the correct ruling.

So, what about events with Co-Td's? Do they get the $10 fee waived also? Besides the point that it actually asks if your going to have a Co TD on the sanctioning agreement or not what about events with multiple courses in play where more than one official (non-playing) is necessary per course?

For example the Lexington Open this year is looking at running on 3 courses and I'll need up to 3 non playing officials since it's an A-Tier (not including myself). Do they have to pay the fee still?
They may or may not be running any PDGA events this year solo.

Also for clarification, somewhere it was said that if you were already TD prior to 2011 there was no retest fee and that it was only for brand new TD's. Was this dumped?

Question: Are members of PDGA Affiliate Clubs no longer allowed to take the official's exam free of charge? Has that benefit been removed from the Affiliate Club program?

Yes, from what I understand.

There was not enough support at the Board level to extend the PDGA Officials Exam exemption to PDGA Affiliated Clubs.

Ok. I called the office and found out the answer to my question.

Here's the answer in case anyone else was wondering;

Only one TD or one Co-TD per scheduled sanctioned event can take advantage of the free test.

So if my CO TD's for the Open want to test for free...I'll have one available free test for the Open and CO TD spots open for the other tournaments I'm running. They just need to commit to those spots and test before the Open.

Of course it woulda been alot easier, like last time using the club affiliation program, but whatever. Anyway good luck to all you TD's this upcoming tournament season.

still no response to what to do if you do not agree with the new fee...since it wasn't stated that the fee would be in place when i renewed.a refund?

how would you feel if you joined a gym for $500 then to use the best equipment you have to pay another $100 would you feel differently if the first you ever heard of the $100 was after you already paid the $500 for membership and nowhere on any paperwork or membership form was this additional fee listed?

I realize this is only $10 and just pocket change for most but the principle behind it is more a thorn in my side than the actual fee.and your pocket change may be a major investment for others i know of juniors and younger players that do not have jobs and save allowance to pay there memberships and are very selective of how they spend what money they do have.

still no response to what to do if you do not agree with the new fee...since it wasn't stated that the fee would be in place when i renewed.a refund?
Would you have not renewed your membership if you had known about the fee? That seems drastic to me.

If the only reason you would want or need to take the test is so you can go to Am Worlds or some other major, why can't you just view the extra $10 as part of the expense of playing? For the expense it'll probably cost to enter that event, get a hotel room, travel costs, food, etc, I doubt the $10 extra makes any discernible difference in your budget.

Otherwise, the way to "protest" the fee is to just not take the test. It's not required in order to play 95% of PDGA sanctioned tournaments, so it really isn't necessary to take it at all.

yes i would have still renewed knowing that there was a $10 fee for taking a test to play in majors.thats not really the point the point is you join the pdga to have certain things available to you that non-members do not.one of these is you must be a member to play in a A-tier and above now your membership doesnt even cover this there's another fee to play in some of these also.i wasnt planning on going to am worlds its a little to far away this year.but might have played in world doubles and some closer NT events.if you want to play in the upper level of tournies then theres a fee"thus the previous reference to an additional fee to use the good equipment"to take the test.as i said its not the $ its the way it was added after people renewed.How would you feel if halfway through the year another fee was added for something else?And i havent even approached the fact that i cant understand how "tour pros" are exempt

I am glad most people support the PDGA financially.
How are we going to grow if headquarters can't
sustain itself monetarily? In my eight years of playing
the benefits, tournaments, website, rule development
and courses just keeps growing and growing and growing......

Growth needs money.

And i havent even approached the fact that i cant understand how "tour pros" are exempt

Let me try and address this question. The Touring Pros provide the PDGA with a huge benefit, which heretofore is free. That benefit is the use of their likeness to promote the sport, tournaments, etc. The PDGA needs this ability to be able to use a "top-down" approach to promoting the sport. The sport needs these high-visibility pros to build excitement amongst it membership. People like to attend tournaments where these players are registered, as just one example. Exempting the Touring Pros from this fee is just one small way we can give back in this day and age of the sport

This reply doesn't address the fact that the TDs and volunteers provide a great service to Touring Pros in creating the competitions they participate in. We need Touring Pros to realize this fact, and to continue to work with the PDGA in a constructive manner to better the situation for all involved, Touring Pros and TDs alike.

We the PDGA have a lot to do to better focus our resources on supporting the 60% amateur and recreational players in our sport as well, and we are working towards that end, as well as expanding our bottom-up approach to growth via youth and course expansion, recreational promotion, etc. in our 2011 budget. These programs don't have the spotlight like many others, but they are reaping long term benefits in the end.

How do I get my $10 refunded???

Even if its a money grab, big deal, the organization needs the money. This sport needs the money.

If you think Touring Pros draw players you are saddly mistaken. After my experiences in recent NT's they are the ones that need to pay to take the test. Want to play for money, pay for the test and enforce the rules on each other.

Even if its a money grab, big deal, the organization needs the money. This sport needs the money.

um what do they need this $ for the financials have been discussed earlier in this thread and they seem to be nicely in the green.the newer players coming into the sport "which i think is what makes this sport grow" are more often than not brought into this sport by players that are not "tour pros".now maybe there are some established players that look up to some "tour pros"and the fact a certain pro will be at a tournament will make them more likely to attend it.

I would challenge any and all of you to walk your local course find players that are new to the sport non-pdga members and ask them if they know who Climo,Feldberg,Jenkins,or any of the biggest name pros are.They may say they have seen the name on a disc that they like or throw but before they bought that disc or more often than not given that disc who it was that introduced them to the sport.i would say 99% of the time it will not be one of these "tour pros"

Most "tour pros" are friends with other disc golfers,hang out with disc golfers,travel to play disc golf and stay with other disc golfers.Now most Ams and non tour pros go to work/school and see non disc golfers all the time.amazingly these people invite there workmates/schoolmates out to play disc golf with them,they will give them discs to start and bend over bacwards to help them improve. Now these new players also have friends that dont know about the sport we love, which they were recently introduced and amazingly they invite there friends out to play also.

I know there are many "tour pros" that go above and beyond.Jay and Des come to mind with the EDGE program.and im sure many others.But on the other side of the coin there are also big name "tour pros" who will go to a tourny that people have worked hard to prepare "with no financial gains"and bash the tournament and just act like an overgrown child.Ive seen many people meet the person they idolize from afar,then after meeting that person completely change there opinion.

Now tell me who is growing this sport!

The rules test is NOT mandatory. It is only required of those that wish to become or remain a certified official, or if one wishes to play in an NT or major event. So if you have no plans/desires to become an official or play an NT/major, keep your $10. And if you are running a PDGA event in 2011, guess what? "Tournament Directors of a 2011 PDGA Sanctioned Event will be allowed to take the exam free of charge" (http://www.pdga.com/officials-exam-2011).

Every time there is an update to the rule book, EVERY member gets a new copy in their membership package when they renew/join. So no worries there, you'll have your updated rule book at no additional charge.

I can't find the link that sends me to the free test for 2011 TDs. Should I have gotten it when I paid my pre-tourney fees?

Capt. Anhyzer- I had to pay to take my test, never got a link or a password to take it for free. Tried to call the PDGA, left a message but no one returned my call. Kind of like the time they didn't return my email way back in November/Early December.

I am glad most people support the PDGA financially.
How are we going to grow if headquarters can't
sustain itself monetarily? In my eight years of playing
the benefits, tournaments, website, rule development
and courses just keeps growing and growing and growing......

Growth needs money.

Great way too look at it Sammy...

I can't find the link that sends me to the free test for 2011 TDs. Should I have gotten it when I paid my pre-tourney fees?

Again, how is this done?

"Growth needs money", they (PDGA) have money but want more of your money.

The ones who win ALL the money get a free pass, is this Enron?

Voluteers who help run the events have to pay, why not the "Touring Pros" ?

Again who exactly are the Pros drawing to NT's? NOBODY that is who. We're still playing for each other's entry fee and most disc golfers want to play not watch.

We're talking about $10 freaking dollars here people, and yes I know its about the principle behind it, but you have to draw the line somewhere you can't just give the test out for free, that takes away money, it doesn't add it. This organization has a long way to go to becoming truly professional in regards to players making playing on tour their actual profession. When the top guy on tour earns less than $50,000, you're not looking too good financially. Maybe the PDGA can use some of the extra test money and increase payout during the World Championships. Money draws people, pay up.

We're talking about $10 freaking dollars here people, and yes I know its about the principle behind it, but you have to draw the line somewhere you can't just give the test out for free, that takes away money, it doesn't add it. This organization has a long way to go to becoming truly professional in regards to players making playing on tour their actual profession. When the top guy on tour earns less than $50,000, you're not looking too good financially. Maybe the PDGA can use some of the extra test money and increase payout during the World Championships. Money draws people, pay up.

Or take $1 from every entry so that those who play 30 events like touring Pros pay a lot more ($30) than someone who plays 3-4 a year and it would nearly triple the payout. Btw the average players plays 3 events a year....$3



Shameless plug

this may have been covered....BUT....as a 2011TD you are required to take the exam....and its free.
Where is the link ?
I have found the exam link but it requires payment,
Anybody?

Apparently you get a code when you sanction your event.

I didn't get one.

You know, for those for whom the $10 is such an issue, maybe if you whine and cry enough, perhaps your Mommy will pay the $10 for you.

You know, for those for whom the $10 is such an issue, maybe if you whine and cry enough, perhaps your Mommy will pay the $10 for you.

You never know ill get a shovel dig her up and give it a try....oh and thanks for the constructive comment!!!!!!

TD's: Call or email to get a code to take the test for free.

(Keep in mind if you call, they may not call you back. If you email, they may not email you back.)

I always get answers on the phone and email.

There was not enough support at the Board level to extend the PDGA Officials Exam exemption to PDGA Affiliated Clubs.

That's too bad...it was a great benefit. It also encouraged people to take the officials exam and become officials who otherwise wouldn't. People who take the officials exam have to read the rules book. More officials = more rules savvy players = better competition.

This is maybe a question for another thread, but what are the benefits of joining the club affiliate program for a club that has a vibrant and active message board on its own website and doesn't really use the one here at pdga.com?

From a past NT TD's perspective, the touring Pros are some of the people who need to take the test more than anyone else. Make them pay so they will pay attention. Things that are free are not taken seriously but if you had to pay $10 bucks you might look at it more closely. If you are worried about the $10 claim it on your taxes as a deduction under the fees and union dues.

From a past NT TD's perspective, the touring Pros are some of the people who need to take the test more than anyone else. Make them pay so they will pay attention. Things that are free are not taken seriously but if you had to pay $10 bucks you might look at it more closely. If you are worried about the $10 claim it on your taxes as a deduction under the fees and union dues.

I'm not worried about the $10...it's a nominal fee.

Also, many of the top pros are VERY rules savvy. For example, David Feldberg is one of the more knowledegable rules people around. I know he's always kept me on my toes as an official, and that makes him a better player and helps make me a better official. Of course, that's not true for all top pros, but folks like Feldberg, Doss, Sprague, Brinster, Reading (both Des and Jay) are very rules savvy, just to name a few.

Chap

That's too bad...it was a great benefit. It also encouraged people to take the officials exam and become officials who otherwise wouldn't. People who take the officials exam have to read the rules book. More officials = more rules savvy players = better competition.

This is maybe a question for another thread, but what are the benefits of joining the club affiliate program for a club that has a vibrant and active message board on its own website and doesn't really use the one here at pdga.com?

Chap- I was one of those. I took the exam a few years ago for fun. It cost nothing because I took it under the Affilliate Club Program. My daughter asked what I was doing and when she heard the reply told me I was a nerd. I don't run tournaments and am far from a tourning pro. I probably will not bother to retest unless I go to Am Worlds. I have always offered the club my service as a certified official at any events they hold. The $10 is not a big deal but enough for me not to bother. If I was playing in a major the $10 would not bother me. Its no real loss to me but likely a loss to the club. That is why the benefit was there in the first place.

If the club/TD runs more than one event, I'm not sure but perhaps they get one TD Officials test exemption for each event so various team members could take the test free prior to each event. I would check and see.

If the club/TD runs more than one event, I'm not sure but perhaps they get one TD Officials test exemption for each event so various team members could take the test free prior to each event. I would check and see.

Our club (KCFDC) had something like 75 PDGA members last year through the club affiliate program (and also several that renewed on their own that don't even count in that number)....but we don't run 75 events. We run a lot of events, but not 75 in a year. Probably not worth it for us to check on that...our handful of TDs will snap up those free tests, and rightfully so. Might be worth it for smaller clubs that hold multiple events with the same TD.

I felt letting club affiliate club members take the test for free was a great incentive to sign up thru your local club. Perhaps I missed the communication that affiliate club members would not be able to take the exam for free. I think it was not communicated well at all.

I was a TD last year and had planned on running an event again this year in September. I wasn't going to send in the sanctioning agreement until around July. Meanwhile, I was going to play in at least one NT, and possibly Worlds before then. If I pay for and take the exam now, wil I get a refund or $10 discount when I send in the sanctioning agreement? If the answer is no, then I will not be running any PDGA events in the future. This decision is based solely on principle and the fact that I was not informed of all required dues at the time I renewed.

I am a strong supporter of the PDGA, but I believe this issue has not been handled very well, and am extremely disapointed that a benefit has been taken away.

pdga should be making some good $$ off this decision ;(

i think that the $10 fee should just be added in the cost of the registration - or the PDGA should redefine what you get as a "member" as it is very misleading --> taken from the PDGA website::

PDGA Member Benefits

As a member of the PDGA your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to DiscGolfer - the official PDGA publication, posting priviledges to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, eligibility to run/vote in elections, compete in member only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors), and more!


Compete in members only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors) -
No mention of "oh yeah if you want to play you have to pay (more) after we already collect your membership fee"


***note to editor privileges does not have a "d" in it for crying out loud who edits this site??

PDGA Member Benefits

As a member of the PDGA your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to DiscGolfer - the official PDGA publication, posting priviledges to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, eligibility to run/vote in elections, compete in member only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors), and more!


Compete in members only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors) -
No mention of "oh yeah if you want to play you have to pay (more) after we already collect your membership fee

this is what alot of us have been saying...basic response=its just $10 dont complain!!

195 people at the memorial=$1950.00 minus im guessing 10% that are tour pros /tds
so a total of roughly - $1755.00 for this one event alone and as i understand it this fee was implemented to pay for the cost involved in giving the test, proccessing,etc.exactly how much does this service cost?are we throwing $ at the same people we threw $ at to re-design this discussion board that maybe 50 people tops use?

its funny how the people involved just stop responding to a thread when its obvious they have contradictary information posted on the pdga site

PDGA Member Benefits

As a member of the PDGA your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to DiscGolfer - the official PDGA publication, posting priviledges to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, eligibility to run/vote in elections, compete in member only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors), and more!


Compete in members only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors) -
No mention of "oh yeah if you want to play you have to pay (more) after we already collect your membership fee

why no response to this?

this may have been covered....BUT....as a 2011TD you are required to take the exam....and its free.
Where is the link ?
I have found the exam link but it requires payment,
Anybody?

I am wondering the same thing for touring Pros. Just making sure we weren't emailed a code or anything earlier this year.

BTW $10 isn't a big deal but $0 is better especially when I just took it 6 months ago.

Contact Karolyn at HQ and she can tell you the codes for both.

Contact Karolyn at HQ and she can tell you the codes for both.

Thanks, I'll get on it in the morning.


See you next week!

$10 is a fair price. you do have to pay someone to grade the tests and process the info. not like they operate for free. and with minimum wage so out of control its not cheap.
i do think if you took the exam less than a year ago you should not have to repay (since last year was the first year they made it mandatory for A-tiers, at least i think it was last year...maybe 2009).

i do think if you took the exam less than a year ago you should not have to repay (since last year was the first year they made it mandatory for A-tiers, at least i think it was last year...maybe 2009).
Different test. The test required for NTs, not A-tiers, was free and different from the Certified Official's Test (Certified Officials still had to take the NT test too).

This year, it's one test for both Certified Officials and the NTs. Brand new test, brand new certification.

As far as I recall, the NT test was implemented as an every year thing anyway. So even if they hadn't combined the tests and required re-certification for all officials, NT players would have still had to pass a new test this year. And rightly so, IMO.

So even if they hadn't combined the tests and required re-certification for all officials, NT players would have still had to pass a new test this year. And rightly so, IMO.

Could not agree more, testing an KNOWING the rules is important.

Past weekend, World Doubles: My partner and a player from the opposing team drive to within in two feet of each other. My partner is two feet closer to the basket (opposing team is "away").

My partner marks his disc then moves out of the way.
O.T. player "You have 30 seconds to shoot, you marked your disc, you have 30 seconds".

Oh rules, why are you so confusing? I explained, as he was the away player, he was out and it was his turn to shoot. His reply, "I took the rules test, I'm an official".

Yes we are ALL officials now, at that tournament.
Testing does not confer knowing.

Is calling a non-rule considered a courtesy violation?
Yes, for only $10.00 you too can make it up as you go.

Away Player: The player whose lie is farthest from the hole and who shall throw next.

801.02 Order of Play:C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first.

801.03 Excessive Time:A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown;

Look at the numerical order... could that be the hierarchy?

Now to the opposing teams credit, I was so ****** off that I did not pay full attention to the next two holes as I was obsessed with the rule book and trying to find "What the F%^& is he talking about"? So if the purpose was to get in my head... good job.

Mentally weak is no play tournament golf ;)

JAB

Could not agree more, testing an KNOWING the rules is important.

Past weekend, World Doubles: My partner and a player from the opposing team drive to within in two feet of each other. My partner is two feet closer to the basket (opposing team is "away").

My partner marks his disc then moves out of the way.
O.T. player "You have 30 seconds to shoot, you marked your disc, you have 30 seconds".

Oh rules, why are you so confusing? I explained, as he was the away player, he was out and it was his turn to shoot. His reply, "I took the rules test, I'm an official".

Yes we are ALL officials now, at that tournament.
Testing does not confer knowing.

Is calling a non-rule considered a courtesy violation?
Yes, for only $10.00 you too can make it up as you go.

Away Player: The player whose lie is farthest from the hole and who shall throw next.

801.02 Order of Play:C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first.

801.03 Excessive Time:A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown;

Look at the numerical order... could that be the hierarchy?

Now to the opposing teams credit, I was so ****** off that I did not pay full attention to the next two holes as I was obsessed with the rule book and trying to find "What the F%^& is he talking about"? So if the purpose was to get in my head... good job.

Mentally weak is no play tournament golf ;)

JAB
Don't leave us hanging here...who threw first, you or the opposing team?

I know what you mean about getting focused on the rule instead of your play. That's why if there's a rule dispute (not a discussion, but a dispute like you had), I pull the book out and we resolve it before anyone throws another shot.

And that's how I would have handled your situation...pull out the book, hand it to the "official" and ask him to find the rule that backs him up. It shouldn't take long, the book is small and a truly knowledgeable official should know exactly where to look for his answer. :rolleyes:

Passing a test is a good way to prove you can pass a test. It isn't necessarily a guarantee that you know how to apply the knowledge you've "learned". I'd be all for re-testing everyone every year, even if the rules don't change (though I'd make the re-tests free instead of charging every year).

Now to the opposing teams credit, I was so ****** off that I did not pay full attention to the next two holes as I was obsessed with the rule book and trying to find "What the F%^& is he talking about"? So if the purpose was to get in my head... good job.

Mentally weak is no play tournament golf ;)

JAB

thats why when i get the new rule book i am going to mark the rules i know will come into contention. that why during a tourney i dont have to put the effort into finding the rule.

and that other player was definitely attempting to distort the rules in his favor, although i dont see it as an "advantage". if i were you i woulda said fine, walked up cashed the putt and then stare at him while he putts. make him feel the pressure to cash it. someone wants to play mind games then ill play right back.

Away Player: The player whose lie is farthest from the hole and who shall throw next.

801.02 Order of Play:C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first.

801.03 Excessive Time:A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown;

JAB

801.03 Excessive Time:
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time
to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,
(3) the playing area is clear and free
of distractions.

you couldve used alot of this rule. take number 3 for example. you are marking your disc to clear the area of that disctration. one thing i dont not like about the new rulebook is that it used to say something like 'it is your turn when the order of play has been determined.' i cant find my rulebook to look it up and i dont feel like searching the website to get the old rulebook.

801.03 Excessive Time:
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time
to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,
(3) the playing area is clear and free
of distractions.

you couldve used alot of this rule. take number 3 for example. you are marking your disc to clear the area of that disctration. one thing i dont not like about the new rulebook is that it used to say something like 'it is your turn when the order of play has been determined.' i cant find my rulebook to look it up and i dont feel like searching the website to get the old rulebook.
How far back do you go? A cursory search of old rule books shows me that rule 801.03 hasn't changed at all since the 2002 update. And that the language hasn't changed since before that, just the way it is arranged (a numbered list since 2002, a sentence list prior to that).

I don't think whatever the phrase you're remembering was ever actually in the rule book. Sounds like a fair rule of thumb while on the course, but not the actual rule.

JConnell, because you asked.

My partner threw first. The "call" did not bother him as much as me. He parked his disc by the hole and dropped in for the 3.

The other player, threw, skipped past the hole, missed the putt took a four.

That said, I place my shot within 12' but, missed the putt.
(thank goodness for a more level headed partner). I may need to go to an "I-pod & ear buds" or find some other "focus aid" to keep bad thoughts from distracting me.

Edit: And all that said, I do not think that the non-rule was called in an attempt to disrupt my play or "game" us. The player believed he was correct and stated that this "rule" had been called on him at Worlds.

I intend no ill will towards the gentlemen that I had the pleasure of playing with, it was not their fault that I am so easily, (oh look a butterfly!) distracted.

JAB

You missed a 12 inch putt?

You must have been rattled.

You missed a 12 inch putt?

You must have been rattled.

12' = 12 feet
12" = 12 inches

notice the difference between ' and "?

12' = 12 feet
12" = 12 inches

notice the difference between ' and "?

That's my bad, I edited my post to correct ['] after being notified...

That's my bad, I edited my post to correct ['] after being notified...

cheater

Can someone tell me where this money is going for the $10 officials test? And why were all the players at AM WORLDS made to take this test? It seems strange to me that we now have 500+ new officials to our sport that are all amateurs.

I also saw the PDGA board helping players pass the test just this past weekend at a large PDGA event. That just doesn't sit well with me. Do you really want us to learn the rules or are you just trying to get that $10 from the players?

And now, when you play an NT event, every player in the group is a certified official. Make that every player on the course. This just doesn't seem right that we are all certified officials.

Doesn't the PDGA have a marshall program? Why doesn't the PDGA spend a a little bit of money and send marshalls to the NT events instead of having all of the players in the event pay the PDGA money for a test? I am very upset about this $10 fee. I feel that it is the PDGA's responsibility to provide officials for an NT event. We are players, we are not officials. Yes it is nice to have a few players that are certified, but what is the reasoning for all of us to have to get certified. And why would you make AMS get certified?

I would really like to know where all of this money is going and what the reasoning for this test was.

I know of numerous instances of players who do not use the internet who had other people take the test for them. I watched a board member give a player the answers to the test at a PDGA NT event. Is this a practice that is really helping the sport. Are all of these so-called officials really the right people to be considered officials. It doesn't seem right that players are certified officials who didn't even take their own test or couldn't pass without the PDGA supplying the answers to the player. This just doesn't make sense to me. And it is really upsetting to me.

It almost upsets me as much as paying $75 a year to be a pro over the $50 a year to sign up as an am. What do we get that is special for an extra $25?

there is a whole thread about this.
it says "its only $10 dont gripe" "there is expense in giving the test" "were going to use the $ to grow the sport"

my opinion is they saw it as a way to get more $ out of the members and didnt tell the members about this aditional cost when they re-newed.(much like the no smoking at worlds)

im just waiting to see what fees they decide to add after people re-new at the beginning of 2012 im guessing march or so we will find out(when someone notices it in the board minutes)

on a more positive note im hoping with Peter on the board we will at least be told something here as soon as he knows instead of finding out from someone who stumbles upon it reading the minutes

It's purely to prove the point that some people will gripe about anything.

Would you prefer it be called the "Pro Players' Rules Exam"? That's what it's about, to make sure pro players are knowledgable, and not just playing pro because you want money.

Ams, well, if you want to play in the big time at Worlds, yeah, why not require that rules be known?
Is it taking the test that troubles you? Hell, it's open book. And open whatever else you want. Is it the $10? It's an investment in your future earnings....you just might learn something that saves you a stroke or costs your top competitor a stroke.

Besides, if you would volunteer to TD an event sometime, and give a little back, you might find a surprise.

I have no talent nor desire to play pro. I want to be an official. I want to know the rules. I'll gladly pay the $10.

As for higher membership fees....that's what the "pro" status behind your name will do for you. If you don't pay that off in winnings, you don't belong playing pro. Relax, have fun...but be one that gives back and makes it better for everyone, not just a whiner who makes everyone miserable. Please.

As a PDGA member for 16 years, I believe I have a right to be upset when something doesn't seem right. And this is one of those things that doesn't seem right to me. Yes we all should know the rules. If you are playing a PDGA event, you are playing by PDGA rules and should know them. But does a $10 test that is open-book help us learn the rules. How many of these certified officials would pass the test if it were not open book? Where is the $10 fee going? Why did I pay $10 last year to take this test, and then have to pay $10 again this year?

I'm not whining, just merely questioning the legitimacy of this test. If everyone in the group is a certified official at an NT, then who is the one making the right call? And why is it that a group playing at an NT still has questions or debates about things that were asked in the test?

I do have fun, help with events and love disc golf. I'm just a little upset about the amount of money that this test has raised and I wonder how it has helped our sport and where the money will be used.

First of all, let's stop pretending the $10 charge for the official's test is a new thing or it was sprung on the membership. It is not and was not. They have ALWAYS charged $10 for the official's test (well, $10 for at least the last dozen years, it might have been less once upon a time...I paid $10 to take it the first time in 2000). The only thing that's new this year is that all players participating in NT and Major events have to pass that test to play. But that's not really a new thing either, since last year all NT participants were required to pass a rules proficiency test (a joke of a test, if I say so myself). They just replaced that test with the officials' test this year because why do they need two tests that cover the exact same material?

The exam, more than anything, is designed to test your comprehension of the rules and how to apply them properly. It's not testing whether you can do it all off the top of your head. The reason the test is open book is because the game is played with an open rule book. You aren't prevented from carrying and opening up the book while on the course (in fact, as an official, you are required to have the book with you on the course at all times). How many times have you been on the course in tournament play, had a situation arise, and have the group go "I'm not sure, but I 'think' we have to/should do/ought to do this" rather than open the book and find the rule that needs to be applied?

If everyone in the group is a certified official at an NT, then who is the one making the right call?
The one who opens the rule book and finds the correct ruling, and not the one who argues the loudest for his point of view. The proceedings within a group at an NT should be no different than in any other event. The only difference is there should be far less doubt and far more certainty on what the proper rule is in a given situation than if the group consisted of three MA3 players with 5 months of collective playing time and nary a rule book amongst them. And if there is doubt or disagreement, each player should have his rule book and be able to make his case for his ruling from it.

We are a self-officiated sport, and it's not likely we will ever be at a point where we aren't. Golf has been around for centuries and it is still a self-officiated sport. Sure, there are on-course officials for the tougher rulings, especially those related to course-specific rules, but they're not there watching each group like a hawk and throwing flags or anything. At best, disc golf will reach a similar place, but will still require its players to know and call the rules themselves 98% of the time.

National Tour and Major events should hold players to a higher standard in regards to knowledge of the rules. If players don't know the rules, or how to look up the proper rule when needed, enough to pass a test, they probably aren't ready for a high caliber event such as an NT or Major.

loosing benifits by the hand fuls does not make me want to buy a officials title.
i probably will not play as an am another pdga sanctioned event.
i have been a member since i started playing golf in 05.
i will not renew,in2012

Jconnell very well worded and thought out. I understand that completely. I still am upset about the issue, and I think it was wrong of the PDGA to make amateurs take the test.....but your points are very valid and make sense. Perhaps this fee could be added to our PDGA fees, than it wouldn't seem like such a big deal. Or the extra $25 that we pay to be PRO could include the officials test?

Jconnell very well worded and thought out. I understand that completely. I still am upset about the issue, and I think it was wrong of the PDGA to make amateurs take the test.....but your points are very valid and make sense. Perhaps this fee could be added to our PDGA fees, than it wouldn't seem like such a big deal. Or the extra $25 that we pay to be PRO could include the officials test?
I don't understand why it was "wrong" to make amateurs take the test. They were only required to take it in order to participate in two events (Worlds and USADGC), which happen to be the biggest amateur events on the schedule. Why shouldn't their elite events be treated the same as the pro elite events? Ams should be expected to know and play by the rules too, no? Amateurs are the future of the sport, right? I think a good grounding in the rules and a good grounding in being expected to know the rules is essential for players of all skill levels, especially those that aspire to enter the pro ranks someday.

As to your suggestion to add the test fee to our regular membership fees, isn't that compounding the issue? I mean, rather than charge an extra $10 to just the people that are required to take the test because they choose to play NTs/majors, you'd charge the extra $10 to every single member whether they want/need to take the test or not?

I like to think that the extra $25 that pros pay in their membership fees pays for extra attention and resources dedicated by the PDGA to the professional ranks. Things like the National Tour, dedicated paid personnel like the Tour Manager, the marshall program, etc...these are all things that benefit pro players almost exclusively (well, pro events almost exclusively). Makes sense that pros would pay a little more to reap these added benefits.

1. take an online officials test = $10
2. requiring AMs to take the test for NTs/Majors = still only $10
3. taking the time to post online and still be upset for over 6 hours about 1 & 2 = priceless!

Not upset. I just don't agree with it. I don't feel that I should be a certified official. I know the rules but don't think that this test accomplished anything or made me more wise to the rules. After 16 years as a PDGA member, I don't think that there are many issues or practices that I have questioned. But this is one of them. As is the no-smoking ban at worlds. I don't smoke, and I wish that it was illegal to smoke at a PDGA events, but I don't think that it was right of the PDGA to announce the smoking ban after people signed up for the PDGA this year.

Sometimes it is hard to convey feelings or emotions online. This test is just something that I don't agree with. I know people who had other people take the test for them. I watched the PDGA board give the answers to a player so that they could pass before their round at an NT started. Now these players are certified officials. That just doesn't seem right to me. And you are right, it's only $10. But when you have 400+ ams, and however many pros pay $10, that adds up to a lot of money. Which I understand the PDGA needs to make money, but I took a similar test last year, only to find out I had to take one again this year. And if you read the PDGA's site, this test is good for 3 years, unless rules changes deem a new test necessary. I really hope we all don't have to pay $10 again next year.

Done with my post. Ya'll have a good day, and I can't wait to go out and throw some discs.

Originally the PDGA was going to lose some money doing the officials test because they were going to send out Official cards. Now, I think they're coming close to breaking even after the cost to develop the test, host the test (it's not on PDGA.com), and I haven't seen the numbers, but I believe the biggest cost may have been the cost to translate the test into several other languages along with the rule book.

I personally administered the test to seven ams at USADGC and two didn't pass the first time and took another version of it we had ready just in case. I never gave them any answers in advance but went over the questions they missed so they knew the correct answers and why. Some of those questions showed up on the alternate test so they did get help in a way. But then, they hopefully learned even more by having to take a second test covering more different questions.

The eventual winner barely passed the test on his first try as he checked in about an hour before the player dinner and meeting the night before tee off. A few told me that issues on the test actually came up during the event and they were prepared since the issue was on their version of the test they took.

Next time a test needs made give me a call. I will make the test and host it on my server. You can send all $10 fees my way. Are you serious that making this test cost the pdga money? I think this could have been made over a few rounds of beers. I will even make it so you get a confirmation email and cc charge before 24 hours time elapses.

So our pdga fees go towards having a test designed and then we as pdga members pay to take the test?

Originally the PDGA was going to lose some money doing the officials test because they were going to send out Official cards. Just an idea, if they do send out PDGA memberships cards for 2012, maybe above the name they could print in red, certified official. Either way, I think it was a good idea to get rid of the official cards, I like when money is saved, and it's one less thing I need to carry in my wallet. Besides, if any rule zealot were to whip out his official card in front of me, I would chuck it in the creek (no pun intended :-).

And all full paying PDGA members should be required to become certified officials and take the exam IMO.

Wow, this whole argument over $10 is petty. Look, if you play 20 PDGA events a year ($20 x $3 = $60), pay your AM annual membership of $50, and pay $10 for a test, that's a whopping $120 a year, or $10 a month to support a not-for-profit organization that is working in your best interest (subject to debate) to help grow this sport.

sandalbagger - So our pdga fees go towards having a test designed and then we as pdga members pay to take the test?
The test itself was produced free by the Rules Committee. But setting it up on computer, linking with the PDGA member database and the other things mentioned were not free.

That sounds better..


Sorry for the posts today. This is what happens when it rains for 48 hours and all I want to do is go and play a round of disc golf.

But next time you guys pay to have something like this test to be made and put up online, I wonder if there are PDGA members who would be willing to do it for free? Especially ones who are really bored when it rains for 48 hours and they can't leave the house.

Wow, this whole argument over $10 is petty. Look, if you play 20 PDGA events a year ($20 x $3 = $60), pay your AM annual membership of $50, and pay $10 for a test, that's a whopping $120 a year, or $10 a month to support a not-for-profit organization that is working in your best interest (subject to debate) to help grow this sport.

when the not for profit org is looking into a way to invest their cash into something to earn interest other than the stated reason for existance then that is not in my best interest.

I hope everyone understands the definition and goals of what it means to be a non-profit organization: a nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. It doesn't mean that the organization doesn't make a profit; instead, it just means that those funds go back into the organization itself.

The more financially healthy the organization is, the better it is able to pursue its goals and serve its membership. More money = more programs to help grow the sport of disc golf.

I hope everyone understands the definition and goals of what it means to be a non-profit organization: a nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. It doesn't mean that the organization doesn't make a profit; instead, it just means that those funds go back into the organization itself.

The more financially healthy the organization is, the better it is able to pursue its goals and serve its membership. More money = more programs to help grow the sport of disc golf.

I understand all of this but explain to me how you can add this fee after people have re-newed when in the pdga web site says this

PDGA Member Benefits

As a member of the PDGA your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to DiscGolfer - the official PDGA publication, posting priviledges to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, eligibility to run/vote in elections, compete in member only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors), and more!


Compete in members only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors) -<<<<<this is the part that needs explaining ,how is this a member benefit when actually you dont get this benefit unless you pay a $10 fee?

everyone thinks this is about a $10 fee its not its about a failure to inform the "PAYING MEMBER" of additional fees required to play in events that according to the PDGAs Member benefits they should be able to play!!

I hope everyone understands the definition and goals of what it means to be a non-profit organization: a nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them to help pursue its goals. It doesn't mean that the organization doesn't make a profit; instead, it just means that those funds go back into the organization itself.

The more financially healthy the organization is, the better it is able to pursue its goals and serve its membership. More money = more programs to help grow the sport of disc golf. Exactly. Truth is we live in a world of the entitlement generation, where these folks expect everything but not willing to put into it.

For a local issue, our not-for-profit disc golf club is very active in building the disc golf community. When I started playing we had 3 courses. Since then 6 new courses have been put into the ground. This could only be made possible with the support of its' members.

I think if the PDGA members would look at some of these issues in a different light then maybe they wouldn't get so bent out of shape and do something to support the PDGA. Certainly if the test could be administered at no expense, then that would be a more favorable option. Likewise, if PDGA could also find a better way to have members signup online without having to pay exhorbarant processing fees, that would again be more feasible.

I understand all of this but explain to me how you can add this fee after people have re-newed when in the pdga web site says this

PDGA Member Benefits

As a member of the PDGA your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to DiscGolfer - the official PDGA publication, posting priviledges to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, eligibility to run/vote in elections, compete in member only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors), and more!


Compete in members only events (SuperTours, National Tour Elite Series and Majors) -<<<<<this is the part that needs explaining ,how is this a member benefit when actually you dont get this benefit unless you pay a $10 fee?

everyone thinks this is about a $10 fee its not its about a failure to inform the "PAYING MEMBER" of additional fees required to play in events that according to the PDGAs Member benefits they should be able to play!! The real question is, why wouldn't you take the initiative beforehand to become a certified official on your own merit?

The real question is, why wouldn't you take the initiative beforehand to become a certified official on your own merit?

ask the people that took the certified officials test in 2010 that was sposed to last 3 years paid there $10 then found out they had to take another test in 2011 and pay another $10

being a certified official doesnt make you know the rules better than a non-certified person anyone can open a rulebook and argue there point of view. being certified doesnt make you unable to make a mistake on a call ,right?

I have a rule book ,i can read,i scored 98% on reading comprehention in 5th grade,its rules its not rocket surgery.

ask the people that took the certified officials test in 2010 that was sposed to last 3 years paid there $10 then found out they had to take another test in 2011 and pay another $10

being a certified official doesnt make you know the rules better than a non-certified person anyone can open a rulebook and argue there point of view. being certified doesnt make you unable to make a mistake on a call ,right?

I have a rule book ,i can read,i scored 98% on reading comprehention in 5th grade,its rules its not rocket surgery.Taking the inititiave to become a certified official is better than players spouting out rules that they heard from other players while playing at their local course. Does taking the exam makes one a rule expert? Not necessarily, but I would have a little more faith in someone that did take the exam over someone who's never opened a rulebook.

And I was one of those players that paid the $10 in 2009, only to have to retake it in 2011. I'm not the type of person to get all bent out of shape because I had to pay $10 one year earlier because there were rule revisions. Again, I consider it a donation to support this organization I am a part of.

Exactly. Truth is we live in a world of the entitlement generation, where these folks expect everything but not willing to put into it.

For a local issue, our not-for-profit disc golf club is very active in building the disc golf community. When I started playing we had 3 courses. Since then 6 new courses have been put into the ground. This could only be made possible with the support of its' members.


Before you go saying ""we expect everything but not willing to put in", you may consider this..

Locally, in the last 6 years we have added 8 courses and re-designed 2.
All of this by the local members and players and ALL through their fundraising and personal donations. With no help from the PDGA in ANY way. We ran a Worlds with a budget in excess of 100K, with a 4k stipen from the PDGA and they get 50% of the profits? WOW, there is another great member benefit.

We also paid to the PDGA last year though player fees, temp fees, sanctioning and insurance over 18K and this year will be the same or more.

Now, you want to say we want it all without putting in? As it appears to me we give WAY TOO much to them now for no more that we get in benefits. Do I feel they delivered 18K in benefits, NO, and we are just a little State with events 6 months of the year. I wonder how much Texas sent them and if they feel they gor their monies worth.

Its not about the $10, it's about their's and their minions attitudes and lack of communication.

I have another question for you.......Out of every paid PDGA position, how many actually disc golf?



Oh and Patrick, I too did take the test last year as part of our affiliate membership program, now that has gone away. I also heard form a player this year at Worlds that the Marshall program was done away with also and thats why they want every player an official.

And yes, I have to go by what I hear, since the PDGA is mute on here or about anywhere.

a nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders

I hope everyone understands that a non-profit corporation is an organization that does not have owners or shareholders.

Before you go saying ""we expect everything but not willing to put in", you may consider this... Notice I said these folks refering to the several peeps complaining about the $10 official fee, the topic of discussion.

My point regarding supporting local not-for-profit organizations wasn't to steer this topic off-point, but to simply illustrate how members are the key in the growth of these organizations. This minor illustration was not an open invitation for an off-topic ranting frenzy.

Notice I said these folks refering to the several peeps complaining about the $10 official fee, the topic of discussion.

My point regarding supporting local not-for-profit organizations wasn't to steer this topic off-point, but to simply illustrate how members are the key in the growth of these organizations. This minor illustration was not an open invitation for an off-topic ranting frenzy.



You took it there I was just commenting.
Since we are on topic then. The $10 fee is a rip off, plain and simple. Not one of the players tha took the test knows the rules any better than they did. Open book, give me a break. Fail it, take it again, fail it, take it again.

It used to be included in our Affiliate Club Membership Program for free. Now one less benefit for the members.

In addition, Pat was right, NO communication any where, except for the minions defending the PDGA at every turn. The only thing the PDGA has communicated to anyone are their decisions to not communicate.

You're right, members are what support an organization, however this one doesn't seem to be supporting it's members, just their jobs. Our local members do a great job of supporting disc golf in the community. On the flip side, other than players, no one knows who the he11 the PDGA is and as long as it's that way, we will be no further along 5 years from now, as we are no further along than we were 5 years ago.

Patrick, while off topic but not a rant, how about trying to answer the question?

I have another question for you.......Out of every paid PDGA position, how many actually disc golf?

Not that it has to do with anything we were discussing but I would be curious to know.

Locally, in the last 6 years we have added 8 courses and re-designed 2. All of this by the local members and players and ALL through their fundraising and personal donations. With no help from the PDGA in ANY way. We ran a Worlds with a budget in excess of 100K, with a 4k stipen from the PDGA and they get 50% of the profits? WOW, there is another great member benefit.

I don't pretend to be knowledgable in running Worlds or know the particular expenses your state has ponied up to PDGA. So from an outsider perspective, some of the comments you stated raises some questions. You said you paid 4k to PDGA to have the Worlds in your "little State"? Wow, if that's all it takes, where do I send my check? That seems like a bargain to me. Imagine all the publicity you bring to your little State for such an exclusive event and the financial impact it will have in the local community. 50% profits to PDGA. Hmm, again I don't know the particular finances, but my understanding is that PDGA events are not ran to make a profit, merely to break even covering expenses and a reasonable fee for management. I would think any profit would be added to fatten the pro purse.

I have another question for you.......Out of every paid PDGA position, how many actually disc golf?Survey says, more than 50%, a loaded question followed up with a vague answer. Any other diverging questions you would like answered?

Out of every paid PDGA position, how many actually disc golf?
Every PDGA employee plays the game. Hard for them to come by the job without having been involved in the game already, don't you think?

Why do you ask? Is there an employee you suspect took the job only for the money? The prestige? Don't make me laugh.

Patrick, you misread my post. I said that the PDGA put up a 4K stipen. Meaning they kicked in 4k towards our 100+k budget. We covered the rest, then at the end you give them 50% of the profits. Yes, profits, we are talking Ams here not Pros. If there is a profit, why do you feel it should be kicked to the Pros? It was Am worlds, not Pro Worlds.

Yes, we made a profit on the event. We paid all our debt and settled with the PDGA within 30 days and cut them a check for over 5k. If a club can't make a profit on an event the size of Worlds, with 18 months of work and preparation then why bother?

Every PDGA employee plays the game. Hard for them to come by the job without having been involved in the game already, don't you think?


No, I don't think that!

You know this for fact? I asked a question that shouldn't be that hard to answer. How many paid positions are ther 5 or 6?

But you want me to just assume they play or ever played since it's a disc golf org.

The fact you assume that says a lot.

Just keep doing what they tell, you'll be fine.

No, I don't think that!

You know this for fact? I asked a question that shouldn't be that hard to answer. How many paid positions are ther 5 or 6?

But you want me to just assume they play or ever played since it's a disc golf org.

The fact you assume that says a lot.

Just keep doing what they tell, you'll be fine.
Did I say I was assuming? No, I said they all play the game. Not I think or I assume they do. They do. To suspect that there's a chance they don't says a lot too, you know.

Just keep looking for conspiracies in everything, you'll be fine.

All six have ratings. Two of six have rated rounds in 2011. BG played DG in the unsanctioned WFDF Overalls in July. Gentry, Marcy and Big Dog are working in all the events they attend. The Board members and consultants are much more active in events and are just as much a part of what you think of as the PDGA as the paid staff.

Just keep looking for conspiracies in everything, you'll be fine.



Just keep following without questions, you'll be fine.

Are you and LaGrassa related?

when people voice their frustrations they are not always looking for conspiracies.

when people voice their frustrations they are not always looking for conspiracies.

And when people voice a justification for PDGA decisions, they are not always cronies, minions or apologists

That said I think it might have been a sensible good will gesture to offer a free or discounted retest to anyone who had passed in 2010

That said I think it might have been a sensible good will gesture to offer a free or discounted retest to anyone who had passed in 2010

Here Here.

This idea was suggested late in 2010 and you did get the 2011 test free if you took it late in 2010 and asked. I may have even posted that option after finding out that was the case.

As one who took the test late in 2010, who do I need to ask to get my $10 back from this years test? As well as my girlfriends $10 for the test she took. You can paypal us or send a check.

Contact PDGA HQ.