Is another player aloud to use you disc??...theres nothing about it in the rule book

Need some answers....

Is another player aloud to use you disc??...theres nothing about it in the rule book
If there's nothing in the rule book specifically disallowing it, then you can assume that it is allowed.

So yes, you are allowed to use any disc, so long as it is unbroken and uniquely marked.

is this what you're asking???

a while back, i lost my spider. a few holes later, i borrowed my cardmates spider and used it for an out, towards the basket.

or this???

i lost a disc, someone else found it and decided not to call me back.

either way, how would anyone know it wasn't yours? and why wouldn't it be allowed?

I know - by stating what I'm about to state - that I'm not "answering the question", but it got me thinking...about HOW rules are written.

Since NO set of rules could possible cover ALL situations that come up, would it be better to write them from "some other way"?

I can see rules being written 1 of 3 possible ways:

What you can not do (and therefore, anything else CAN be done).
What you must do (and therefore, anything else done is 'not allowed').
Some combination of the two.

Now I know some of you will get me for poor wording, etc., but try not to get caught up in the semantics...try to think which of those 3 options produces the 'best set of rules'.

Thoughts?

Karl

You can borrow another player's stuff. It is allowed.

You can borrow another player's stuff. It is allowed.

But only if you whisper.

But only if you whisper.

...and don't announce it aloud because you're not allowed! :)

...and would be a lout.

I think if someone tried to use me as a disc, there would be a lot of loud.

802.01.f.
All discs used in play, except mini
marker discs, must be uniquely marked
in ink or pigment-based marking which
has no detectable thickness.

So, my read is that if you want to let someone borrow your disc, you must get rid of your unique mark, put their unique mark on it, then they can use it.

802.01.f.
All discs used in play, except mini
marker discs, must be uniquely marked
in ink or pigment-based marking which
has no detectable thickness.

So, my read is that if you want to let someone borrow your disc, you must get rid of your unique mark, put their unique mark on it, then they can use it.
It doesn't read that the disc must be marked with your unique mark, just that it must be uniquely marked. Once I put a unique mark on a disc, it's legal for use by me or anyone else who wants to throw it.

dye spreads randomly
uniquely marking each disc
your mark is surplus

Nice, Bruce. A disc golf poet.

How about this one?

Haikus are easy
But they don't always make sense.
Refrigerator.

Nice, Bruce. A disc golf poet.

How about this one?

Haikus are easy
But they don't always make sense.
Refrigerator.

Kiralyn's t-shirt
has that written on the front
conspicuously.

Bruce, we'd better stop this haiku stuff because . . .

most disc golfers don't
have any boogerin' clue
why we're doing it

It doesn't read that the disc must be marked with your unique mark, just that it must be uniquely marked. Once I put a unique mark on a disc, it's legal for use by me or anyone else who wants to throw it.

I suppose the rule could be interpreted that way. I hope you are making a point about clarity in the rules, and not actually advocating for everyone to be able to use any disc that anyone every scribbled on.

I guess I jumped to the conclusion that "uniquely marked" meant a mark that indicated it was my disc and no one else's. I thought the purpose was so that we could figure out who's brand-new neon pink Stingray was the one that was out-of-bounds, and who's was in-bounds right next to it.

Under your interpretation, if I put my thumbprint on each of my discs, then neither I nor anyone else could use them, because they all have the same mark as another disc. But if we fire paintballs around in a disc store, then all those discs could be used by anyone. What would be the purpose of a unique mark in that case?

But, if your real point is that the rules are not worded precisely, I would have to agree. "marked to unambiguously identify the player" would be better than "uniquely marked".

I suppose the rule could be interpreted that way. I hope you are making a point about clarity in the rules, and not actually advocating for everyone to be able to use any disc that anyone every scribbled on.

I guess I jumped to the conclusion that "uniquely marked" meant a mark that indicated it was my disc and no one else's. I thought the purpose was so that we could figure out who's brand-new neon pink Stingray was the one that was out-of-bounds, and who's was in-bounds right next to it.

Under your interpretation, if I put my thumbprint on each of my discs, then neither I nor anyone else could use them, because they all have the same mark as another disc. But if we fire paintballs around in a disc store, then all those discs could be used by anyone. What would be the purpose of a unique mark in that case?

But, if your real point is that the rules are not worded precisely, I would have to agree. "marked to unambiguously identify the player" would be better than "uniquely marked".
I'm not advocating that the rule is worded poorly. My point is you are reading more into the rule than is there. I'm not trying to get fancy with this, I'm pointing out the literal interpretation of the written rule.

Rule 802.01 F is not intended to restrict players to only using discs with their unique mark. If it was, it would say so. It is intended solely for disc identification. Just because the disc I have in my hand has Chuck's name on it instead of mine, doesn't mean it is illegal for me to throw that disc. I can still easily identify it as the disc I threw once it's on the fairway.

As for your examples...yes, the discs with your thumbprint on it would be legal to throw provided you marked your print in "ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness". How is your thumbprint (unique to you and only you) any different than writing your name as far as being unique? The rule isn't specific at all as to what the unique mark has to be either. It can be your name, it can be your thumbprint, it can be a doodle, it can be anything you want it to be. As for the paintball spattered discs, no, they're not legally marked discs because paint has a detectable thickness. Even if each disc is unique, they're still not marked correctly by rule.

Just because the disc I have in my hand has Chuck's name on it instead of mine, doesn't mean it is illegal for me to throw that disc.

Granted, thumbprints and signatures would be legal, and thick-paint-balled discs would not be (pretend I said "ink balls"). I was trying to figure out what your interpretation of "uniquely marked" is. I now know you think it does not mean a different mark on every single disc. I was using that as an example of one useless way to interpret "uniquely marked" - an interpretation that is even MORE literal than the one you are suggesting.

I think your interpretation of (paraphrasing now) "marked by anybody with anybody's mark" is also a useless (though perhaps somewhat literal) interpretation.

Yes, you could use a disc with Chuck's name on it, if that was your mark and it was different than how Chuck marked his discs.

But, what if you were using a disc marked by Chuck with Chuck's mark and you were playing with Chuck in your group? Do you think that would be legal?

If so, how would you tell who threw what disc? And even if you could tell, how could you prove it to, say, an official who did not see the throw and did not see you borrow a disc from Chuck?

Let's say this fictional Chuck likes your throw better and claims it as his. Maybe he even thinks your throw actually was his throw. Then what? Isn't the mark supposed to prevent that kind of situation? If not, what purpose does the unique mark serve?

Granted, thumbprints and signatures would be legal, and thick-paint-balled discs would not be (pretend I said "ink balls"). I was trying to figure out what your interpretation of "uniquely marked" is. I now know you think it does not mean a different mark on every single disc. I was using that as an example of one useless way to interpret "uniquely marked" - an interpretation that is even MORE literal than the one you are suggesting.

I think your interpretation of (paraphrasing now) "marked by anybody with anybody's mark" is also a useless (though perhaps somewhat literal) interpretation.

Yes, you could use a disc with Chuck's name on it, if that was your mark and it was different than how Chuck marked his discs.

But, what if you were using a disc marked by Chuck with Chuck's mark and you were playing with Chuck in your group? Do you think that would be legal?

If so, how would you tell who threw what disc? And even if you could tell, how could you prove it to, say, an official who did not see the throw and did not see you borrow a disc from Chuck?

Let's say this fictional Chuck likes your throw better and claims it as his. Maybe he even thinks your throw actually was his throw. Then what? Isn't the mark supposed to prevent that kind of situation? If not, what purpose does the unique mark serve?
Yes, it would be legal to throw my disc marked by Chuck's name even if he's in my group. What don't you understand? There is NO RULE disallowing me from throwing someone else's disc. Period. The literal interpretation of the rule says that a legal disc only needs a unique mark. It doesn't say it has to be my specific mark. If you think it does, you're the one making creative leaps in your interpretation.

As for how you tell who threw what...are Chuck and I each throwing exactly the same disc? Same color, same mold, same weight, same hotstamp, same everything? What are the odds of that, really? One would think that if Chuck has given/sold/traded me one of his discs for which he has an exact double, he'd realize that and mention it. In that case, if the extremely rare occurrence of us being in the same group planning to throw the same disc on the same hole, I can just add an "X" on the back of mine so we can distinguish it from the disc that Chuck plans to throw. Good?

The point of the rule is as you imply, to allow for disc identification on the course...so we can figure out whether the pink starfire on the ground is mine or yours. But that's as far as it goes, or needs to go.

All that said, if the disc is yours, it's foolish not to put your own mark on it if only so that if lost, it can be returned to you. But putting your mark is not specifically required by the rule.

The original question on this thread was whether or not one could borrow a disc from another player and legally throw it in competition. And the answer to that question is an unequivocal YES.

I would be glad to sign a disc for each of you so we can take this out of the hypothetical realm...:)

But it would negatively impact the resale value of the discs. ;)

. . . I can just add an "X" on the back of mine so we can distinguish it from the disc that Chuck plans to throw. . .

Some of the longest discussions are between two people who essentially agree. And, we're at that point with everything you said in the last post.

So, just one last question: Do you need to make that "X" to be legal, or not? I think you do.

(And thanks for the offer, non-fictional Chuck.)

So, just one last question: Do you need to make that "X" to be legal, or not?
No, you don't.

I would like to see a requirement added to the rule where the player using another player's disc, without adding any new mark to it, would have to announce to the group that he was using a disc marked by another player. I've done that on my own but it would seem to be the correct thing to do. You would think it doesn't happen too often but I see it regularly during doubles.