Any idea when the NT Schedule for next year will be released? If I remember correctly, the '10 schedule was released in early October '09.

The schedule is pretty much done from what I understand. Graham is at a conference in Charlotte and I think Gentry hopes to have Brian review and approve it for publication sometime after he gets back.

I'm guessing- Memorial, Steady Ed Masters, BSF, KC Wide, Majestic, BHMO, Yetter, Vibram

Maybe one or two more....Glass Blown and another Florida NT?

The PDGA tour should really include 4 Majors each year, PDGA worlds, Usdgc, European championships and one more 3-4 day event that is held in the spring on a really challenging course. ( where like a few under wins :) )

I'm guessing- Memorial, Steady Ed Masters, BSF, KC Wide, Majestic, BHMO, Yetter, Vibram

Maybe one or two more....Glass Blown and another Florida NT?

Possibly the King of the Lake in Tahoe!

what about the Carolina Clash?

The Las Vegas Disc Golf Glob submitted a NT application/packet to the PDGA within the required 6-month advance window (so end of August 2010) for the Gentlemen's Club Challenge for 2011, Pro weekend (the weekend before the Memorial).

Previous GCC events have exceeded all NT requirements, is the highest paid-out A-Tier Pro event, and exceeds some NT events.

At this time, we have not heard one peep of our request.

ptederodactyl- having king of the lakes as an NT and no steady ed masters cup makes sense with worlds being out there this year. i'd like to make it to that one, regardless of whether it is an A or NT.

I totally agree with you, Dana. KOTL is 2 weeks before worlds, I believe. We want the Frying Pan to be the week before worlds. I may have my dates incorrect. I'll check later. KL

I am wondering what it will look like with the USDGC out this year.

Looks like a nice mix of continuing, new and returning NTs for next year. They are waiting for final confirmation this week from one NT site and the schedule will be ready to publish.

The PDGA tour should really include 4 Majors each year, PDGA worlds, Usdgc, European championships and one more 3-4 day event that is held in the spring on a really challenging course. ( where like a few under wins :) )

dave, are you volunteering to make a huge payout event on the ozark mountain course that'll become the next major?

Posted: http://www.pdga.com/2011-nt-goes-elite

Good to see that Tahoe made the cut even though I haven't played there in 5 years.

Hooray to better chances of good weather for the BSF2011!!!!!

(Preface: I love Pittsburgh disc golfers and think their courses are amazing, this isn't a attack on Pittsburgh but on the PDGA's decision)



giving a NT to Pittsburgh is laughable, their payout isn't even good for a A tier, and never has been. If they added another 5-7k to the payout, I am sure it would be a fantastic event, but why are we rewarding A tiers with small pro turnout and average-at-best payout with NT status? The only reason their payout is even decent is because they have a full course of AMs to support the pro payout. Giving NT status will not change pro turnout that much, unless a lot more added money is found this year.

This seems like a step backwards to me :(


Also the Yetter's payout this year WAS NT caliber, and yet they don't get NT status? Same state as Pittsburgh! Had almost DOUBLE pro payout with not many more players.

Not including the Minnesota Majestic is another big fail, that event is top notch in every way.

Remember that sites bid to be NTs. Likely no bid from Yetter and Skylands was just down the road from there this year. KCs bid must have been at least equal to Majestic and got selected as the one NT for that region next year having done NTs and Worlds before. All NTs are expected to meet the minimum added cash of $5K plus Pittsburgh has been thinking about bidding for Pro Worlds. Not too many sites interested in bidding on those. Pros should be happy that sites are still willing to bid on hosting NTs considering the amount of money that needs to be raised and the sour taste or burnout from some sites who have hosted them and may not offer to do it again or at least for several years.

IMO this looks like the best scheduling of
NT's that I have seen. Great dates and
way better chances for good weather at
all of them. Good job PDGA!

If they added another 5-7k to the payout, I am sure it would be a fantastic event, but why are we rewarding A tiers with small pro turnout and average-at-best payout with NT status? The only reason their payout is even decent is because they have a full course of AMs to support the pro payout. Giving NT status will not change pro turnout that much, unless a lot more added money is found this year.

This seems like a step backwards to me :(



Would you like to sponsor our First NT? Title sponsorship is still available...The Luke Butch Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open...Sounds like a winner to me!!!

Here we are.....10 months from the PFDO and we already have someone complaining about payout and commenting it's "laughable" that Pittsburgh was selected to be part of the 2011 National Tour. And people wonder why many clubs and tournament directors get tired of hearing the same old, same old from a bunch of whiny pros with entitlement attitudes.

At the very least, Mr. Butch, please reserve your judgment until the event has actually occurred. And as Mr. Kennedy already pointed out, the PDGA doesn't randomly choose the NT sites. The Pittsburgh Flying Disc Society bid to host an NT event for next year.

What courses will the PFDO be at?

What courses will the PFDO be at?

Moraine, Deer Lakes, and Knob Hill

Moraine, Deer Lakes, and Knob Hill

Only three of the best courses in PA....sounds like a winner to me! Keep the complainers away....

Here we are.....10 months from the PFDO and we already have someone complaining about payout and commenting it's "laughable" that Pittsburgh was selected to be part of the 2011 National Tour. And people wonder why many clubs and tournament directors get tired of hearing the same old, same old from a bunch of whiny pros with entitlement attitudes.

At the very least, Mr. Butch, please reserve your judgment until the event has actually occurred. And as Mr. Kennedy already pointed out, the PDGA doesn't randomly choose the NT sites. The Pittsburgh Flying Disc Society bid to host an NT event for next year.

He is right in that the payout has never been that great.....

He is right in that the payout has never been that great.....

How do you know that I didn't win the lottery and I'm donating all of it to the PFDO?

How do you know that I didn't win the lottery and I'm donating all of it to the PFDO?

I don't and all I was referring to was Past events! Pretty sure the year I went they didn't meet the $1000 1st place mark which was advertised.

Here we are.....10 months from the PFDO andwe already have someone complaining about payout and commenting it's "laughable" that Pittsburgh was selected to be part of the 2011 National Tour. And people wonder why many clubs and tournament directors get tired of hearing the same old, same old from a bunch of whiny pros with entitlement attitudes.

At the very least, Mr. Butch, please reserve your judgment until the event has actually occurred. And as Mr. Kennedy already pointed out, the PDGA doesn't randomly choose the NT sites. The Pittsburgh Flying Disc Society bid to host an NT event for next year.

seems like you've heard payout complaints before...so what made the PFDS think they are ready to hold a bigger event? Yes the courses are amazing...but PAYOUT draws touring pros.

And I'm not exactly some whiny touring pro, I've ran tournaments for the past 4 years a few hours away. In fact, last year(last tournament I ran) had very similar added cash to the PFDO- difference was mine was a b tier.

Yes, I have heard complaints before, but only from whiny amateurs.
Imagine that.....ams complaining about payout. :)

Funny the two complaints about the PFDO have come from someone who has never attended the event and someone who hasn't been in five years. Obviously two authorities on how the PFDO has run recently or how it will be run for the 2011 NT. :rolleyes:

As one of the TDs for the last PFDO I can say we had a Pro payout of 191% and the Pro Event value was 229% of entry fee. The Am side came in at 192% of entry fee. I'm not exactly sure of how the other A tiers did in comparison. Those numbers don't look too bad to me though. We had some of the top Pros come and always have. To tell the truth I do not think the main interest around this area is to have the best payouts of any tournament, we focus on the quality of the courses. That being said we really are going to raise the bar this year with the added cash. If any whiners want to actually help out instead of complain feel free to send a donation. Honestly I do not know who all we beat out to get the NT bid. Something tells me it is not any of the people complaining though. That seems to be the way it goes. You have people that get things done and then you have people that complain about the way things are but do nothing to help. Along with the rest of the Pittsburgh club I appreciate the support in those posts.

Yes, I have heard complaints before, but only from whiny amateurs.
Imagine that.....ams complaining about payout. :)


You know that Ams don't complain about payout everywhere, right? Between Indiana and Pittsburgh tournaments, I'm sure they have been in your area for a long time though :(



SCOTT- Anyone who has ever ran tournaments knows that you can have a on-paper 150-200% AM payout and still make money off them to put in the pro payout. I think Pittsburgh courses are amazing, but NT's are supposed to draw large amount of top pros...and payout does this not courses. I hope 2011 PFDO is a huge success, has 50+ open players and a huge payout. I just believe the PDGA should approve NTs for tournaments that have proven they ALREADY can draw big fields and have big payouts.

. Something tells me it is not any of the people complaining though. That seems to be the way it goes. You have people that get things done and then you have people that complain about the way things are but do nothing to help.

your using this on the wrong person, lol. try it on some AM2 who whines he got 165g DX discs and another players pack disc for 2nd place. Don't use it on someone who has ran tournaments, helped build courses, donated baskets, discs, etc...as well as played a bunch of big tournaments in the last 2 years.

You know that Ams don't complain about payout everywhere, right? Between Indiana and Pittsburgh tournaments, I'm sure they have been in your area for a long time though :(




I know that Pittsburgh is not the only place they complain. In fact, most of the whiny amateur complaints I've heard over the years came from New Yorkers. Wait.....it's all coming back to me now....you are from New York and you used to play amateur divisions here in Pittsburgh and Indiana. :)

Joking aside, we (PFDS) have heard payout complaints from amateurs over the years. Unfortunately, during my 19+ years of playing competitively, I've heard payout complaints in many different cities, states, etc. One of the things many of these complainers don't understand is we (PFDS) have always wanted to keep the amateur entry fees low and provide a player package to every amateur competitor. This way everybody gets something for participating in the event. Much of the cost of the player package comes out of the amateur entry fee which equates to a smaller payout for the top finishers in the division. Example, if the amateur entry fee is $25 and the player package is valued at $15, that only leaves a $10/person for that divisional purse.


Luke, congratulations on your disc golf tournaments and I hope you continue to host successful events in the future. Likewise, we hope to do the same in Pittsburgh. There was a lot of discussion leading up to our decision to bid for the National Tour. We are aware of the NT parameters and based upon the historical success of the Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open, I am confident attendees in 2011 will not be disappointed.

Lets look at some stats of the PFDO. First off we have probably had more World Champions play this event than most of them out there. And the payout has steadily increased over the years. We also have a staff that has been involved in running this event for 25 years now. I'm pretty sure we will do just fine as an NT. Also look at all of the people who return to this event year after year. There is a reason for that.


2001 PFDO as a B-tier.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=2586#Advanced

2002 PFDO as an A-Tier with more than $3000 more in the total payout from the previous year.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=3000#Open

2003 PFDO as an A-tier with another $3000 added from the previous year.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=3545#Open

2004 PFDO with the same payout as the year before.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=4013#Open

2005 PFDO was the only year that we ran the event as PRO Only. It was a smaller evernt due to the fact that we were the week before worlds. If you have ever run an event the week before worlds you know that turnout becomes much smaller. Still we had many top players and had a nice payout.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=4671#Open

2006 PFDO the year Matt Hall came and our smallest payout ever. Due to many local factors. Yet Nikko who had come for his first time that year, has made in back just about every year since this. Even with thelow payout that year.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=5507#Open

I was not there in 07

2008 PFDO still holding steady around our $10,000 pro payout that we reached in 03. A bunch of World Champs yet again.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=7353#Open

2009 PFDO yet again holding steady at $10,000 PRO payout. With 50 -60 Pro players which is about where we have averaged since 01.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8620#Open

2010 PFDO we had some new people run the event this year. Things went smoothly. Payout maybe could have been higher, but first place left with more than $1000 yet again.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=9776#Open


So in the last 10 years we have only paid out less than $1000 to first place two times. We have also had a steady field of 50 - 60 pros. We have a catered dinner for everyone Sunday night. And the event has attracted the top pros year after year. I don't think you would see this continued success if it was not a good event.

I am curious what the other players who have played this event think. But I am 100% positive that with the club that we have that we will pull of the NT event with no problem. And you can be assured that we are not stopping at an NT event. 2014 is looking like the big year!

It's too bad that TD's have to continuously show the facts to people in order to prove they are doing a good job and to appease the cryers and the non-doers.
That's why I refuse to run any more sanctioned tournaments. I literally can not listen to the stupid questions anymore about payout and whatnot. Not a dig on the pdga, just the nature of the beast.

your using this on the wrong person, lol. try it on some AM2 who whines he got 165g DX discs and another players pack disc for 2nd place. Don't use it on someone who has ran tournaments, helped build courses, donated baskets, discs, etc...as well as played a bunch of big tournaments in the last 2 years.

The comment was suggesting that you did not put in to run a NT in our sector. Nothing more. Am I missing something and you put in and we beat you out? Is that where this is all coming from or are you just lonely in Thailand? Just messing with you. Hope you can make it to our NT this year.

no male is ever lonely in thailand...