twig
Jul 30 2010, 05:10 AM
No that's a W/D! Why can our sport not show a difference between someone withdrawing due to injury or something like that as opposed to someone just quitting? It's embarassing for someone to look at scores and be like "oh why did Lavone quit?" when a simple change in scores being reported - say 888 - could simply show everyone that he withdrew as opposed to quitting.
I put this in every TD report I submit that there is a difference but we, as TD's, have no way of showing that difference.
I agree with your sentiment, but how would you "police" that? All the Quitter would have to do is say "My arm (wrist/back/you-know-what) hurts!" Sadly, I think it all comes down to the player's reputation...is he a competitive player or a petulant playa? One thing I do know: Lavone's no quitter.
This was pulled from the Worlds thread so as not to bog it down with a tangential discussion. Apologies to lovers of tangents...
I assume the first part (tagging a withdrawal differently) would be a straightforward thing to do, it's simply a matter of determining if that's actually the case. So why not simply have those with injury withdrawals fill out a form? Yeah, it's not perfect, and yeah, people can file them falsely (of course, no other sport deals with misleading injury situations...cough, cough), but it seems like a start. It would mean extra work for TD's, but unforeseen/unannounced DNF's aren't exactly a hassle-free occurrence either, especially those that cross days.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a way to count a regular (i.e. one that isn't injury or otherwise health-related) DNF in the ratings, by figuring a rating based on the holes that were played (possibly with a standard value assigned to uncompleted holes), especially since a sad majority of these tend to occur on the final hole or close to it. Of course, that would work best if the ratings did NOT throw out low rounds (which I personally don't believe they should). Fortunately, these specific situations (DNF's specifically to preserve ratings, as opposed to your garden variety frustration DNF) do tend to somewhat self-police, in that those who regularly do so inflate their rating without a corresponding increase in skill. Bragging rights over ratings are nice and all, but skill tends to win out over time, and, for me anyway, tourney wins/finishes kinda trump ratings when it's all said and one. :)
And, yeah, I realize that if you carry this argument further (possibly ad absurdum) you can get to the point where you punish (ratings-wise, anyway) people for excessive non-W/D DNF's (not a bad thing IMO), so everyone ends up trying to file said W/D form EVERY TIME, which just ends up being more hassle than it's worth. As Informal said, more often than not, at least for folks who know them personally, it's pretty immediately (if not specifically) obvious why someone stopped playing. I know Player X would finish out with a twisted ankle or throw with their off hand, while Player Y would quit after the second missed 10 footer. Sure would be nice if we can all tell this though...
Frank
I put this in every TD report I submit that there is a difference but we, as TD's, have no way of showing that difference.
I agree with your sentiment, but how would you "police" that? All the Quitter would have to do is say "My arm (wrist/back/you-know-what) hurts!" Sadly, I think it all comes down to the player's reputation...is he a competitive player or a petulant playa? One thing I do know: Lavone's no quitter.
This was pulled from the Worlds thread so as not to bog it down with a tangential discussion. Apologies to lovers of tangents...
I assume the first part (tagging a withdrawal differently) would be a straightforward thing to do, it's simply a matter of determining if that's actually the case. So why not simply have those with injury withdrawals fill out a form? Yeah, it's not perfect, and yeah, people can file them falsely (of course, no other sport deals with misleading injury situations...cough, cough), but it seems like a start. It would mean extra work for TD's, but unforeseen/unannounced DNF's aren't exactly a hassle-free occurrence either, especially those that cross days.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a way to count a regular (i.e. one that isn't injury or otherwise health-related) DNF in the ratings, by figuring a rating based on the holes that were played (possibly with a standard value assigned to uncompleted holes), especially since a sad majority of these tend to occur on the final hole or close to it. Of course, that would work best if the ratings did NOT throw out low rounds (which I personally don't believe they should). Fortunately, these specific situations (DNF's specifically to preserve ratings, as opposed to your garden variety frustration DNF) do tend to somewhat self-police, in that those who regularly do so inflate their rating without a corresponding increase in skill. Bragging rights over ratings are nice and all, but skill tends to win out over time, and, for me anyway, tourney wins/finishes kinda trump ratings when it's all said and one. :)
And, yeah, I realize that if you carry this argument further (possibly ad absurdum) you can get to the point where you punish (ratings-wise, anyway) people for excessive non-W/D DNF's (not a bad thing IMO), so everyone ends up trying to file said W/D form EVERY TIME, which just ends up being more hassle than it's worth. As Informal said, more often than not, at least for folks who know them personally, it's pretty immediately (if not specifically) obvious why someone stopped playing. I know Player X would finish out with a twisted ankle or throw with their off hand, while Player Y would quit after the second missed 10 footer. Sure would be nice if we can all tell this though...
Frank