From Board of Directors Spring Summit Minutes, Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA), May 13, 2010:
Summit Dinners by Rothstein
Rothstein feels that buying alcohol during summit dinners is inconsistent with our efforts and inappropriate to be purchased with members funds. Decker pointed out that we are a volunteer organization and the board members are using vacation time to be here.

MOTION (Rothstein/Feldberg)
Starting today, at summit meals, board members are responsible for picking up their own alcohol tab.
Yes: Feldberg, Korver, Rothstein
No: Bellinger, Decker, Gillis, Andrews
Motion Fails
Thanx Dave, Juliana, & Rick for at least trying to do the right thing, and shame on you to the others.

i can buy them a case of natty boh and a send few bucks for some ice if they want it that bad.

Read on. It get even more unreal.

Wow, really? It is true we are a volunteer organization, but nobody is forcing any of them to volunteer their time to be on the board in the first place.

That is pretty sad and incredibly selfish to buy alcohol with membership funds. If you don't like it, don't run to be on the board.

Instead of specifying what can and cannot be bought for a summit dinner, it would be better to specify a spending limit instead.

It would be less expensive for an expenditure of $25 that includes alcohol than an expenditure of $40 with no alcohol.

I am pleased, though, that the state of the Association is such that issues of this level are evidently the most pressing, since it was put to a BOD vote.

And shame on you Ray, for mislabeling this discussion.

I particularly like the disciplinary committee's chair proposing that the disciplinary committee's chair be converted to a paid consultant position.

I particularly like the disciplinary committee's chair proposing that the disciplinary committee's chair be converted to a paid consultant position.


Just curious why a Committee Chair position would be more deserving of a salary versus a BOD position. Maybe the PDGA having trouble filling the position with suitable volunteers. Perhaps a quick note on the front page that they are looking to fill the position could produce several qualified volunteers who are willing to work for volunteer wages (aka: zero dollars).

Just curious why a Committee Chair position would be more deserving of a salary versus a BOD position. Maybe the PDGA having trouble filling the position with suitable volunteers. Perhaps a quick note on the front page that they are looking to fill the position could produce several qualified volunteers who are willing to work for volunteer wages (aka: zero dollars).

Once they realize one of the perks is getting wasted for free I'm sure the applications will be rolling in.

Maybe they should put that Alcohol cash into worlds? lol

You eat less when you drink so......

I don't see this as a big deal. Some membership
funds are going to be misused. Like any business
there is always 5-8% of fat that could be trimmed
but rarely is.

You eat less when you drink so......

I don't see this as a big deal. Some membership
funds are going to be misused. Like any business
there is always 5-8% of fat that could be trimmed
but rarely is.

Maybe if they were drinking and just got a salad but I would assume they do not change their entree of choice just because they are drinking.

Also drinking limits eating.......until you get wasted and have to make a 2AM Whataburger run (sorry for you northerners)

To me, it is as much or more the principle (and the entitled, members-be-damned attitude) of the thing as the nuts & bolts of the $$.

Man I can't wait until 2012!!!

The last World Championships ever on Earth will be the 1st 100K event.......hopefully and only 7 years behind Duesler's prediction.

mmmmmm...... Whataburger :D

mmmmmm...... Whataburger :D

There ya GO!


Anyway with everything that has been said I am pleased to see the org looking to improve Worlds. It is also nice to see they wanted more info from Huntsville and Louisville before finalizing anything.

Props to the BoD even if they had a few drinks.

I too think its the principle of the matter. We are currently in an economy where money should not be wasted. Especially in an organization like this that is trying to grow, that already has quite a lot of members and non members who think that the fees are already too high (regardless of what you think of this issue, just making a point), and needs all the money it does get to go to proper channels to help the sport grow.

I can not see how a person who volunteers to to be on the BoD of an organization for the sport they love, would see fit to waste money, in any form or fashion, much less on something like alcohol that is completely not necessary.

They're not consuming alcohol after the 2 minute warning signaling the start of the BOD meeting, are they?

Where are the minutes located on this site? I went to "pdga hq" and then "documents," but no luck. What is the proper pathway to find the minutes?

PDGA HQ / Organizational Documents

If these guys were handing in $250.00 bar tabs for every lunch this would be a serious issue, but sitting here pissing and moaning because someone had a beer or two with lunch is absurd. The cost to us members would be the same if they'd ordered a couple of cokes. Without knowing the details, we're all just sitting here judging a book by its cover.

Apparently, 43% of the BoD believe it is a serious enough issue to consider, debate, move, and vote upon. Are you belittling their concerns?

Thanks for the info. I find those discussions (the ones in the minutes) pretty fascinating, and am always a bit surprised with how much is on their plate. Kudos to the minutes-preparer also. That task (in most orgs) is not usually done so well.

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but it might help to get some of those topics out in the public debate weeks prior to the meetings.

As to the alcohol, I can't get worked up over the actual issue, but the shear tone-deafness of those voting to continue is kind of troubling.

This thread is ridiculous.

The BOD gives up lots of their for the good of the members and the sport and you want to nickel and dime them and act outraged if they want to have a beer or glass of wine with lunch or dinner.?

Whats next?
Hotels? No way - make them sleep on the floor of the IDGC!
Airfare? No way - do you know how much cheaper it would be for Feldberg to take a Greyhound Bus to GA than to fly?
Dinner? - Make them get the chicken instead of the fish because its $3 cheaper.
Drinks - No tea for them. Water is much cheaper.

There was a reasonable point brought up for a vote and it didn't pass (which amazes me actually)

Quit the ******** about NOTHING.
If people don't like the way things are being run step up and do it better.

Of course you won't though because its so much easier to sit back and ***** about everything.

wsfaplau = valedictorian of the '10 class of the LaGrassa Institute of Civil Discourse. Congratulations!

What I found interesting was the realization that the state coordinators are not functioning as well as the regional coordinators did in the past.

I do not mind that they have an adult beverage with their dinner on our dime.

I do have a problem that they voted on it and the motion was defeated!

I particularly like the disciplinary committee's chair proposing that the disciplinary committee's chair be converted to a paid consultant position.

Upon further reading of the minutes from the Spring Summit, the amount of compensation requested is $500.00 per month or $6,000 per year.

So far this year, it seems 5 members have received probation or suspension. Although we can't see how many cases have already been resolved or know how many cases were reviewed by the committee.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Disciplinary-Actions-Current-06102010.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/discussion/../files/documents/Disciplinary-Actions-Current-06102010.pdf)

What I found interesting was the realization that the state coordinators are not functioning as well as the regional coordinators did in the past.

Maybe if they communicated with the state coordinators and actually involved them in voting and taking the pulse of the organization on issues. I've found that if you express interest or concern about what the board and organization are doing it is labeled as being a malcontent or instigator. So i just sit back now and run my events and organize our schedule with our neighboring states.


I think this discussion is a bit out of context. My guess is that we aren't talking about a beer or 2 with dinner. I have no issue with that. more likely it is involving actual bar tabs. But wouldn't it make sense if they were more forthcoming about what they are actually doing? I think if there was less secrecy from our organization, it wouldn't engender so much suspicion about everything.

Anyway, I'm done worrying about it. I know that the people running things are doing what they think is best even if it doesn't always turn out that way. And to the guy who said if you don't like it you should try running it yourself, good luck with that. thanks for a good laugh though.

..........


I think this discussion is a bit out of context. My guess is that we aren't talking about a beer or 2 with dinner. I have no issue with that..............And to the guy who said if you don't like it you should try running it yourself, good luck with that. thanks for a good laugh though.

I agree whole heartedly, I know I have a personal experience of one of the BoD at the Worlds in 2003 refusing to go a sponsors because they didnt serve wine.....I would bet its not just a couple of beers with the need to enforce, nay, put to a vote....and I did decide to run, so thanks for the laugh, but I'd appreciate a vote!

I think this discussion is a bit out of context. My guess is that we aren't talking about a beer or 2 with dinner. I have no issue with that. more likely it is involving actual bar tabs. But wouldn't it make sense if they were more forthcoming about what they are actually doing? I think if there was less secrecy from our organization, it wouldn't engender so much suspicion about everything.



You're entitled to your guess, but the subject in the minutes was "drinks with dinner". And it's a poor job of secrecy to include in the published minutes something we'd otherwise be unaware of.

You're entitled to your guess, but the subject in the minutes was "drinks with dinner". And it's a poor job of secrecy to include in the published minutes something we'd otherwise be unaware of.


How is that secret? It was a voted decision....It was determined by someone on the board that its an offensive enough to them that it needs to be voted on. So with any vote there should be a record. I don't understand the secrecy comment I guess.....I would expect any vote to show up in the minutes, regardless of the reason. If it requires a vote there needs to be a record, unless its to decide where to eat!

I must be dense---I'm missing something. The first post quotes the minutes, showing 3 votes for the motion to not pay for alcohol, 4 votes against, and names the board members who voted each way.

Jack, if elected to the board, what would your opinion be on audio and/or videotaping Board meetings, summits, & teleconferences & making these documents available to members to supplement the text minutes? Sometimes the discussions of issues at hand could be as much or more enlightening than the results of the votes.

Ray,

Except for when the BOD goes into executive session, IIRC, the meetings are open, so you are more than welcome to attend one of them.

I bet the videotape would have some interesting moments, but would not support using the Association's resources in taping these meetings for the peanut gallery to snipe at.

Except for when the BOD goes into executive session, IIRC, the meetings are open, so you are more than welcome to attend one of them.
It would be funny to see the panicked rush to call for an executive session if that were to happen.

I bet the videotape would have some interesting moments, but would not support using the Association's resources in taping these meetings for the peanut gallery to snipe at.
Thanx for the input, peanut gallery, but you are not to whom the query is directed. Unless, of course, you are planning to run for BoD…

wellll.....hmmmm......mostly they are done on conference calls, which is good, because I don't have the body that most people would want to watch on prime-time viewing.

As for recording meetings, I have never really thought of it. I feel as though that having a compentent secretary that gets the nuances of the conversations is quite a bit more healthy. Some things are said in moments that you regret, and even during a evening your opinion can change, so to be forced to answer questions revolving around the debate that may alter after hearing all sides is not something that I would probably subscribe to initially.

I don't think that I would want even our local club meetings that do get quite animated to be video taped at this time...and some of them over the last decade have been dusies! Boy you know a few of them maybe I do want, I would like to remind people how they behave to their peers....

Its an interesting thought though that is for sure. Open debate on it would make an interesting angle to see what others opined.