First, I understand the idea of requiring people to pay an extra non-PDGA fee to participate in a PDGA event that takes place where the sport is well known. I understand that an A-Tier PDGA event with 100 people, and only 20 PDGA members is not an ideal scenario.

But...my concern, question, is if the $10 fee is too high? Is the higher fee is not discouraging players who have little exposure, geographically, to disc golf and little opportunity to play a sport they are interested in - with-out being penalized for their sincere interest?

In the area of 2 of the events I TD...disc golf is growing, but it is still very unknown for the most part. So, in my efforts to spread the sport and do a lot of the "leg-work" the PDGA needs volunteers to do - I am crippled as soon as the first time tournament player asks "How much to play in the tournament?" and I have to continually reply "It is $xx, but the PDGA requires me to charge you an extra $10 on top of that for not being a member, I am sorry, it is not my choice."

1. How does this improve the chances of any NEW area trying to introduce the sport?
2. Why not reward the NEW area, and donate $5 of each fee back to the tournament? - if it is to HELP promote the sport?
3. Does anyone think that first time tournament player is HAPPY to hear the $20 Recreational entry fee has been increased by 50%?

The non-PDGA fee is one of the main reasons I have always given at least a new disc to ALL AM players that enter. It is my way of combatting the negative message the PDGA is forcing on TDs - I am hoping that the majority of players leaving the tournament feel as though they were actually a part of the tournament, and not just a "newbie".

Think of it from their point of view...

- This person has the courage to enter a PDGA tournament, a whole new adventure.
- They usually do not know all the rules or procedures, again taking a chance on something they really want to be a part of...but anxious about how things will go in the actual tournament setting.
- They are new to the sport, so their skill level may not be too great yet, and they are still going to TRY to compete at the tournament - maybe feeling a little out of place seeing the more experienced players doing things they can only hope for in the future.

BASICALLY - it takes courage and initiative to try something new - it takes effort to find the means, or a way, to even participate in the sport (in that area) - it takes a certain amount of humbleness, and willingness to learn, to put yourself into what could be an intimidating and uncomfortable situation --- and for their personal efforts, they are NOT rewarded, but penalized from DAY ONE - WHY????

Again, I know in disc golf "hot-spots", where the sport is available everywhere (Raleigh NC for example), there needs to be some regulations to govern the PDGA tournaments - I get that. I, also, know that the tournaments do not have to be PDGA sanctioned, but I would like to think I am growing the sport and it is in the best interests of disc golf that I can introduce people to the PDGA in a good light.

But, I am guessing that there are many other areas where the "fee" is working to hurt the chances of the sport growing locally.

I would like to hear from anyone else, who is in an area that disc golf is just sprouting - and you are trying to get it off the ground. Has anyone else observed the same negative feed-back from new players? Has anyone else met someone who is so into the sport, and hyped up to play more and more, but never to be heard from again, with the reason maybe being the bad taste from their first venture into PDGA land?

Also, from the PDGA - any ideas on maybe constructing a more inviting way to introduce the PDGA to new areas? Maybe, a one time "free-pass" at a person's first tournament, then AFTER they have been a part of the fun, excitement and competition they would be more likely to respond to the offer of becoming a member? Or, like I said earlier, if the fees are going to stay at $10 - why not give the TD who is promoting the sport in new areas a reward for the work by donating $5 of each back to the tournament?

I have had families come out for the first time, only to be hit with - well it is going to be an extra $50 for you to play, when their combined entry fees only equal $100. A family looking for something to be a part of, enjoy the recreation on a higher level, maybe join an organization that their entire family can have as common ground in their lives < this is exactly who the PDGA wants to attract right?

This does not even include the $2+ for the PDGA in the first place...in reality, any non-PDGA member pays $12+ to the PDGA for what? Most businesses provide a discount to first time buyers to encourage them to be a part of, or buy products from, XYZ company - not introduce themselves by charging MORE money - then asking, would you like to join us?

Maybe, it is not possible, but is there not enough information on disc golf demographics to introduce some "fee free" areas? As the numbers grow in PDGA tournament participation then that area is no longer in a "fee free" zone.

Maybe a fee relative to the Tier of each event? -
C-Tier=$0 which equals # of non PDGA players X$2 to the PDGA
B-Tier=$3 which equals # of non-PDGA players x$6 to the PDGA
A-Tier=$7 which equals # of non-PDGA players x$11 to the PDGA
...all of the $$$ is just that, $$$ - no records to keep etc..for the PDGA, just extra income.

Anything above an A-Tier, I think the PDGA has a right to be Members Only.

I am not sure of the solution, or if this is even a problem in other areas? But, I know I am tired of apologizing for the PDGA each year to the 10-20 new players taking a chance with a new sport, excited about maybe becoming a part of something for the future and who have the courage and initiative to seek out the disc golf scene on their own.

How are the new tournament players being rewarded for their effort with a penalty fee from day one?
How are the TDs trying to grow the sport, and introduce the people to the PDGA, being helped out by being required to "give the bad news" to every new tournament player?

IMO - changes are needed to the $10 non-PDGA fee in areas where disc golf is not on the map yet...

Brandon Bailey

To figure out the effect of the $10 fee you just have to run a few tournaments without the $10 fee.

I will reply more thoroughly tomorrow but...........That was a very good post and it made me think about the situation in a way I have all but forgotten. My Dad signed us up for the PDGA at our 1st event but I don't think that is the norm and hate to think another family might decide to not play more tournaments because of this.

The reason for hiking the fee was the fact membership dues were increased and the BoD felt it would be unfair to current members if non-members could fill spots for only an $5 fee.

Maybe something like a 3 tournament grace period could be allowed since the PDGA is tracking all participants now. The 1st three events are free then you have to decide on joining or just paying the $10. The PDGA would benefit from this in the long run if they could convince even 20% more people to join.

It's tricky to have one rule for areas with PDGA saturation and areas with very low PDGA membership. I'm in the former but do ponder how things play out in the latter.

Didn't the PDGA try something like this a few years ago---D-tier, I believe?

There are valid arguments that you should be a member to participate in an event. Others have posted that there are others sports which require organization membership for ANY contestant. The current PDGA rule is something of a compromise; at B & C tiers, non-members can play but pay a fee; higher tiers, they cannot.

One effect of the $10 fee is for the player who plays a handful of tournaments a year. At $5, he figures it's cheaper to continue as a non-member. At $10, the break-even point is just a few events.

Just speculating, but in an area with low-PDGA presence, the player who stays away over the $10 fee or PDGA membership does have lots of non-PDGA events available to him.

We've had $5 non-member fees and $10 non-member fees, and have experience with both. I'd be curious as whether the higher entry fee resulted in more memberships, or fewer non-members playing PDGA events, or simply more money for the PDGA (which, as a PDGA member, I don't find inherently wrong).

Sorry for the rambling. Not proffering any answers, just throwing a few thoughts into the discussion.

Think of it from their point of view...

- This person has the courage to enter a PDGA tournament, a whole new adventure.
- They usually do not know all the rules or procedures, again taking a chance on something they really want to be a part of...but anxious about how things will go in the actual tournament setting.
- They are new to the sport, so their skill level may not be too great yet, and they are still going to TRY to compete at the tournament - maybe feeling a little out of place seeing the more experienced players doing things they can only hope for in the future.

BASICALLY - it takes courage and initiative to try something new - it takes effort to find the means, or a way, to even participate in the sport (in that area) - it takes a certain amount of humbleness, and willingness to learn, to put yourself into what could be an intimidating and uncomfortable situation --- and for their personal efforts, they are NOT rewarded, but penalized from DAY ONE - WHY????


These are all good points from the new player's point of view. Why are these not worth at least $10? I would expect to be paying much more than this if I were learning anything new. Part of the problem is that it's not really a $10 fee but a $40 discount per person. Remember that every other player who is a PDGA member has already paid at least $50. These new players don't have to pay the $50, just $10 and can consider later about joining. That is the teaser for trying out an event.

In low PDGA membership areas, all entry fees really should be posted so that PDGA members get a $10 discount, not the way it's typically done with entry fees posted and a $10 non-PDGA member fee added. Then you can change the perspective in your dialog with new players. If the new player would like the $10 member discount, they could join for $50 now and get the magazine ratings, etc. Or they will still be able to get a PDGA number paying the regular entry fee and then only pay $40 more if they decide to enter sometime after the event.

IMO - changes are needed to the $10 non-PDGA fee in areas where disc golf is not on the map yet...

Brandon Bailey

No changes are needed as there is already a program in place for areas with low PDGA membership. For a "Developmental Event" the PDGA reduces fees for non-members to $5.00. Events are eligible for up to three years. Simply fill out an application for your event to be considered.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2009CompetitionEndowmentProgram-Details.pdf

Good feed-back --- thanks.

The idea of wording the entry fees differently is something I have seen done. I had thought it would maybe make people think the entry fees were higher if the did NOT read that there is a $10 discount for current PDGA members. But, all in all, it does change the dialogue between myself and new tournament players. I think this is a good idea, and will incorporate it in the future.

D-Tier?...I am not as fond of that idea. For the people who come out every year, I think it would lower the value, or kind of be slighting them, when they are used to a B or C Tier each year.

As for... "Just speculating, but in an area with low-PDGA presence, the player who stays away over the $10 fee or PDGA membership does have lots of non-PDGA events available to him" --- unfortunately this is not true in the area I am working in, I wish it was the case. The area has had a hard time creating, and maintaining, a league presence of any sort. Mostly due to the fact that each person trying to get something started is not communicating with the others with the same goals.

I think there may be some uniqueness to the area I am dealing with...I will keep up the heavy pay-out + all AMs get a disc just for entering, and include the newly worded entry fees and see if that will help the cause.

Brandon

Good luck. You're out there doing the heavy lifting to boost the sport. Thanks.