The first draft of disc variants for each PDGA Approved disc model has been posted:

http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/pdga-approved-disc-variants-10-25-09

Only some manufacturers have provided their variant information to date and we hope to get all manufacturers up to date during 2010. The variants are loosely organized into categories but there's no strict definition that puts one variant in the Premium category versus the Special category. Each manufacturer determines what discs qualify as a variant which is typically a difference in plastic used. Most of the time that is not determined by the PDGA Tech Standards group.

A recent update has also been made to the Tech Standards document with changes noted in blue text.

http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-technical-standards-manufacturers-guidelines

Chuck,
I have a few questions about how this variant list and marking of pdga approved disc rules will eventually be helpful to assure discs "used in play" will be governed, tested and enforced?

How much has this whole process been thought out?

Has the scenario been played all the way out to the end?

The very end???

Like,,,,, what will the penalties be for the player who has used a disc in an event that is not on the list or is not engraved or hot stamped with pdga approved?

What will happen to a previously approved and purchased disc?


What happens in 2012 when a guy shows up to an event with some old school disc ( OR ANY type of DISC) in his bag that doesn't have pdga approved engraved or hot stamped?

Who is going to check players bags to make sure discs have the engraving or hot stamping.

I am having a hard time imagining how this will work without causing chaos?

I have made it very clear that the only thing that should be important is that all players who use discs in events are using discs that are within the rules.
I cant see how the engraving and hot stamping rules will not assure this.
Just because a disc has pdga approved on it or is on a list doenst mean that it cant be too heavy,, too small diameter, too short of rim depth, too long of wing length.
Nothing can prevent post production modifications that could be out of a manufactures control, like factoring down rim depth.
It seems the pdga doesnt want to hold players responsible for the discs the "used in events".


I am told one big thing the pdga doesnt want to do is put any burden on the TD's, but I'm fairly confident that,,,,,, eventually,,,,, there will be a need for procedures and testing at events regardless of lists, or having "pdga approved" engraved or hot stamped on discs.

I have several concerns about this direction,, one of my concerns is, there are millions of discs already produced and purchased that do not have pdga approved on the engraving or hot stamp. What happens to these discs?

If these discs are some how grand fathered in, how would you be able to tell if the disc is an old one or new one when a player has it in his bag?

Also the eventual rule will require pdga approved to be engraved or on the hot stamp, but what happens when the hot stamped version wears off?

What happens to a disc that has pdga approved on them but is outside of the tech standards?


I'm having a hard time understanding how any of this will ensure discs " used in an event" are within the tech standards and a harder time foreseeing how it will be enforced.

Not responding here regarding standards. You've contributed over the past year with your input while these policies have developed with significant manufacturer feedback.

With regard to any future compliance checking, if you haven't started the process to start identifying products at the manufacturing end, setting up procedures and checking for compliance in the filed isn't even a possibility. Those procedures can really only be addressed in the future as the landscape for the sport evolves. And by that, I mean, "Is more money going to be infused in the sport via sponsorship where the cost of compliance checking is financially viable and needed, at least at the pro level."

I think the response was valid. What happens if these go into effect and I show up with my bag that I have removed hot stamps and taken off the PDGA Apporved stamp? Do I have to start over from new? Just asking I think it setting the sport up for a huge hazzel. I've weighed Rocs that have said approved on it but ooppsss it weighed 189g

If and when compliance checking goes beyond primarily the Japan Open weight checks, it may be little different from compliance checking for things like traffic laws. Speeding at any specific location is only spot checked if ever. You're supposed to follow the laws and have to pay the fine or suffer the consequences for non-compliance if caught. You knowingly violate the law or standards at your own risk which may be minimal. It's a true risk-reward structure where the cost of forcing compliance at a certain level is balanced by the perceived need to catch offenders. Potential offenders make the same cost-benefit assessment on what they lose if caught versus the benefits of getting away with non-compliance.

There goes my 200 gm Puppy!

What about something like KC 9x/10x or JK 4x bar stamped discs? (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=2007) These do not have PDGA Approved in the stamp or on the bottom. Will these discs become invalid?

There's no requirement for a PDGA mark to be on an approved disc model to be legal.

OK, that's good. I must have misinterpreted the previous posts.

Chuck, or anyone else on the TSC,,,

I appreciate the pdga's efforts to govern, but cant get my arms or mind around how this will work to ensure discs " used in pdga events" are within the rules of the technical standards.
It will be nice to have a list ( and a big one at that), but then what?
What if Whammo, or any other company just decides they don't want to do this,, what happens then? Their previously approved pdga discs will become illegal?

What about companies who made discs but don't any longer or all the discs already out there?
This seems like a rather complicated effort on so many levels and certainly more complicated than actually checking players discs every now and then,, as your reference to speeding implies.


I'm not at all trying to be difficult, but just dont understand what this will accomplish in the long run.

Here is a specific concern:

Since we use the same bottom for different models (Both Mid range, all 4 putters, the same bottom for all 6 high speed drivers, the same bottom for (sabre, baze, demon and hybrid and CERTAINLY more down the road), its going to very difficult to identify each disc individually with engraving. We could engrave all names on the discs but having separate bottoms for each and every one of them is not practical, ( WASTEFULL OF METAL, "NOT VERY GREEN") and extremely costly.

I see the word "highly recommended" and encouraged, long with must comply by 2012 so I'm a bit confused as to WHAT THIS MEANS.
I dont understand how anyone ( td or competitor) will be able to tell when a disc was manufactured,, let alone what a custom stamped disc made from 1983-2011 - (non
"pdga approved" engraved or hot stamped) is by referring to a list.

This is an excerpt from an email I was sent:

"It is highly recommended that all approved discs carry the words "PDGA Approved" either engraved in the mold and/or as part of the disc art or a permanent sticker. Manufacturers are also encouraged to add the model and approval identification to all previously-approved discs when it is feasible to do so. All approved discs manufactured after January 1, 2012 must comply with these standards."

I believe we ( gateway) were the first to have pdga approved engraved on the back of our discs and all of our current stock stamps already have pdga approved on the hot stamp.
We are already doing MOST of what is being asked, but the individual model thing is going to be tough for us and I'm thinking other companies also share bottoms making this a tall order to incorporate easily.

I have another question or 2.

Typically during development we will run several prototype runs before the engraving is done and these discs are well within the rules,,,, are you saying that after 2012 these prototype discs will not be able to be used if the dont have pdga approved somewhere on them,,, even though they are within the rules?
What about discs made previous to 2012, like custom stamped discs or other prototypes like an original eagle, super puppys, etc.?,,, will they not be allowed for pdga play if they are not marked.?

so we are going to have older non marked discs that can be used and new discs that have to be marked,, how or who is going to tell them a part even during the random speed limit type enforcing inspections??

thanks in advance for any insight or help anyone can give me as a player and manufacturer???,,,,,!!!!!

Here's the actual new TS wording. There's no requirement for engraving. As you point out it would be difficult and in fact very costly to do so. A "PDGA Approved" stamp, sticker or ink notation is recommended but is still not required after 2011. For example, if you have new disc approved in 2011 called the Whizzix, you would meet the guidelines in 2012 by simply writing a 2-letter code "WX" in ink on each disc. The main thing is to have a disc ID especially on models that end up with custom hot stamps which has been lacking.

"After the manufacturer is notified of PDGA approval and certification, the equipment may be used in PDGA-sanctioned competition. As of July 1, 2010, all newly-approved discs must carry the approved model name either engraved in the mold or as part of the disc art, permanent sticker label or by indelible ink marking. The full model name is recommended, but the use of unique abbreviations or codes is acceptable. Such codes must either be identified with the submission for approval, or supplied to the Technical Standards Committee for variants produced after the original approval.

It is also highly recommended that all approved discs carry the words "PDGA Approved" either engraved in the mold and/or as part of the disc art or a permanent sticker. Manufacturers are also encouraged to add the model and approval identification to all previously-approved discs when it is feasible to do so. All approved discs manufactured after January 1, 2012 must comply with these standards."

For example, if you have new disc approved in 2011 called the Whizzix, you would meet the guidelines in 2012 by simply writing a 2-letter code "WX" in ink on each disc. The main thing is to have a disc ID especially on models that end up with custom hot stamps which has been lacking.


I guess that will confuse people when I show them my Whippet X with the same 2 letter code on the disc. :)

The "font" will be different :)

When I first read the name of the thread, for some reason I thought it was "Disc Deviants", and I thought how appropriate the Chuck had the plurality of posts on it :)