Hi!
This happend to me today.

My lie was something like 4 meters from the basket and I was marking it with my mini. I took the driver and lay it aside behind me.

I had to wait for another player to make his putt. And when it was my turn, I made the put from where my driver was laying. I missed the putt (Bad one!!), had to wait for another player so finnish his hole and then I holed out.
After that, I discoverd that I made my put from the wrong lie.
I gave myself a two stroke penalty, but I can�t find anything about this in the rulebook. The closest is "throwing from another players lie".
What do you say? Did I do the right call in this situation?

//J

What you did was make a practice throw. You didn't throw from someone else's lie, which is a 2 stroker.
The best advice I can give on this is: when you mark your lie, putt your disc in front of your mini or put it back in your bag before you putt and you won't make this mistake again.

We went over this same situation a couple of years back and it was debated heatedly. Finally someone sent a question to the Rules Committee to ask for an OFFICIAL RULING. The committee sent him a reply that was counter to the Practice Throw ruling that a majority of people thought would be the right call. I sent the committee another message asking about the same thing and gave my reasons why I thought it should be ruled a practice throw. They sent me a reply saying they would support either call :confused: ......

I believe the choices of the original discussion was between a stance violation and a practice throw. I could go either way, but both mean the original throw does not count and a new throw from the correct lie must be made.

In the case of missing the first putt from the wrong lie and then making the second putt from a non-lie, the two stroke penalty for a misplay discovered after two throws may be correct.

So there is nothing in the rulebook that�s called; "Throwing from the wrong lie"?

So there is nothing in the rulebook that�s called; "Throwing from the wrong lie"? I thought the exact same thing, rule could easily be changed from "another player's lie" to "wrong lie".

If you had discovered your error before the group had completed the hole, then you should have assessed a one penalty stroke for a practice throw, remark your original lie in agreement with the group, and then re-putt. Some will argue that you already �holed out� and assessing a practice throw is not valid. However, I would say that it is not a legitimate throw to begin with and therefore you cannot hole out with an illegal throw.

However, if you had discovered your error after completion of the hole then you should assess a two penalty stroke. The rule I would apply here first is 803.01F Rules of Fairness in which you would then apply the closest existing rule. The closest existing rule I find is 801.04D = �In instances where a misplay is discovered after the pertinent hole or holes have been completed (holed out), the misplay shall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penalty for the misplay.

I think in this situation it determines when the misplay was discovered.

Throwing from another player's lie almost implies that the error caused the other player's disc was picked up and their mark lost. The two interpretations of throwing from the wrong lie are based on whether intent plays a part in the error. With no allowance for intent, only the practice throw rule applies. If the intent to make a legal throw is accepted as a mitigating circumstance, then the throw can be considered a stance violation. In either case, the original throw from the wrong spot cannot be used as to complete the hole.
If another throw is made from the new lie established from the incorrect throw, it should then be treated as a misplay per 801.04.B.1 as the nearest rule to the situation.
The simpler change to the rules would be to add "/Lie" to the heading of 801.04.B.1.

This would leave the harsher penalty for disturbing another player's lie in place while specifically addressing the more common problem of throwing from a spot that is not your lie.

I believe the thrower will know immediately when he/she bends down to get the disc (used as a marker). As the player sees a disc instead of a marker, they'll realize the error and look ahead to the righful lie. Then they'll think to themself, "Did I really just do that?" The sportsman would ask everyone to stop and determine the correct ruling on the spot, the dishonest player would try to find a way to pick up his mini without anyone noticing and hope no one noticed.

It's difficult to imagine a situation where you would not catch that until later.

True, but the question that started this thread was a putt from the wrong lie that missed and was put in from the next lie, then the mini was noticed on the ground.

Throwing from another player's lie almost implies that the error caused the other player's disc was picked up and their mark lost. The two interpretations of throwing from the wrong lie are based on whether intent plays a part in the error. With no allowance for intent, only the practice throw rule applies. If the intent to make a legal throw is accepted as a mitigating circumstance, then the throw can be considered a stance violation. In either case, the original throw from the wrong spot cannot be used as to complete the hole.
If another throw is made from the new lie established from the incorrect throw, it should then be treated as a misplay per 801.04.B.1 as the nearest rule to the situation.
The simpler change to the rules would be to add "/Lie" to the heading of 801.04.B.1.

This would leave the harsher penalty for disturbing another player's lie in place while specifically addressing the more common problem of throwing from a spot that is not your lie. Very good points and I think your idea of adding "/Lie" to that rule would be a good sugestion.

Looking at these rules closer, brings up an interesting twist to a scenario. Player A & B discs are within close proximity, same distance from basket but player B is 2ft to the right from player A. If player A putts from player B marker by accident, he receives a two penalty stroke subject to 803.10. If player A putts from anywhere else intentionally (besides his own marker or another players) he receives a one penalty stroke for a practice shot. Therefore player is awarded a stiffer penalty for unintentionally throwing from the wrong lie (note, I did not mention if player A picked up player B marker yet, so player B lie is still established).

I see it as a stance violation only, according to

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off

A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole
than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when
putting within 10 meters.

C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc
to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the
thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the
marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full
control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

D. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any
obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course.

E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters
directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately
behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of
803.04 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

F. A stance violation must be clearly called within three seconds after the infraction to be
valid. The call may be made by any member of the group or an official. When the call is made by
a member of the group, it must subsequently be confirmed by another member of the group. A
player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a stance rule in the round.
Subsequent violations of a stance rule in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty.

G. Any throw that involves a validly called and seconded stance violation may not be used by the thrower. Re-throws must be taken from the original lie, prior to subsequent play by others in the group.

H. The player may not retrieve the originally thrown disc prior to the re-throw, except in the
case of a putt from within 10 meters. Where a disc is retrieved in violation of this rule, a
one throw penalty shall be imposed without a warning.
so, no penalty if it wasn't called within 3 seconds, and seconded.

I don't necessarily agree with this, though, let me make that clear.

But it's not another player's lie, it's just not from within 30 cm of the proper lie.

I see it as a stance violation only, according to


so, no penalty if it wasn't called within 3 seconds, and seconded.

I don't necessarily agree with this, though, let me make that clear.

But it's not another player's lie, it's just not from within 30 cm of the proper lie.

I�ve got the same answer from the PDGA rule committee.