In reviewing the tournament report for a recent B Tier event I noticed:

Of over $1800.00 in Advanced am prize value $800.00 went to non or non current members, Including over $350 to the non member winner.

Of $1750 in Intermediate prizes $750 went to non or non current members.

Of $350 in Advanced Masters over $275 went to non or non current members. (one of whom has renewed following the event).

and

In Pro Men of $835 total prize money $250 went to non or non current members.

To me it looks like a bunch of folks are really taking advantage of the PDGA prize structure. Yes they paid their $10.00 assessment but ......

I can guess how the non and non current members would think about this but I think that the $50 amateur membership or the $75 Pro membership should be the first thing in the prize or cash package. Certainly the "amateur" who won > $350 should become a member and still have over $300 worth of prizes. Non current cashing Pros should also have their membership renewed before taking the dough if their winnings are well over the membership fee. For the pros it would be as simple as deducting the membership from their winning check. With amateurs it would be more complicated since prizes are divided and boxed for distribution usually overnight for two day events. I've been a TD or more recently assistant TD for over 20 years and know that this is another burden on us, keeping up with membership status as the final positions are determined. Especially since it is the non or non current member requiring the effort.

At one time I was a member of the ATA and the NSSA, both sport shooting organizations. You had to be a current member to participate whether you won or not. That seemed fair to me. Allowing participation without regular membership in the PDGA is generous, requiring those who win more than their membership fee to join does not seem draconian.

This particular outcome may be isolated, I'm sure that those with access to all the PDGA event data could determine a breakdown by Tier and Division with percentage of prize value that went to current vs non current members that would shed more of a light on the scope of this generosity.

My $.02, or these days My $.0125

Your math is bad or your assumptions are wrong on the amateur side. To pay for a $50 membership as a prize, the TD has to reduce the prize payout to that player by $100. That is because the TD is getting his prizes at wholesale, but the PDGA does not have a wholesale deal for TDs to give out memberships as prizes. Meanwhile, the PDGA is not going to count the $50 membership as a $100 prize so now the TD is going to have to kick in $50 more in prizes that costs him $25 more.

I think any non-member pro who cashes for more than the $75 membership should have $75 deducted from his cash and should receive a membership instead. Here there is no wholesale-retail issue. [If you are getting your cash at wholesale, hook me up!] But unless the PDGA mandates it, I don't expect to see many TDs doing it.

John/Fossil

I admit my regional bias up front.
"Forcing" pDGA memberships on winners is
similar to awarding plastic to ams that they
would never "choose" to throw.
Membership is a choice and the $10 privilege-
to-pay is enough of a penalty already.
"Garnishment" of prizes/winnings is not the way to
handle the issue.

It would be a good way to "pad" the membership numbers.
The non-renewal numbers would rise also.

TD's that may be "on the fence" regarding sanctioning
will just say "Forget it!".

again, regional bias has poisoned my thinking
steve timm

Sounds like a regional thing.

I'm fairly confident that in many other areas of the country a free $50 PDGA membership for the following year would be extremely well received.

Considering the number of crappy Lightning & DX plastic discs, wear-once t-shirts, minis, and worthless stickers I won over the years, the free PDGA membership I was presented by Cedar Farm Golf Club for taking 2nd place at the 8th Mid-Atlantic Amateur Championships was probably the best prize I ever won as an amateur!

Bruce is correct about why most events do not award PDGA memberships as prizes. Many events rely on conversion "profits" to pay for other event expenses. It would be difficult to run a successful event (read: not lose money) if TD's had to pay retail for all their prizes.

The So Cal Am Championships awards PDGA memberships every year. Prize packages are made up in advance (like Fossil pointed out). However, this event is in November, so if current PDGA members win, they can simply join for the following year. Winners have to turn in a certificate and they are signed up through the Affiliate Club program, so there is a $5.00 discount.

I imagine many more events would award memberships if the PDGA would offer TD's a $5.00 discount on memberships awarded as prizes. Then, affiliate club events could get Am memberships for a cost of only $40.00. This would allow a 20% mark up and still allow some conversion "profits" to cover other event expenses - like lunches, player packs for volunteers, park fees, etc.

I thought that non-members received a PDGA number, which I would call a membership, after they played their first event this year. They are not active, but they are still a member. Am I incorrect?

Jeff

I take your comment regarding "crappy Lightning & DX plastic" as a personal attack on our manufacturers.
So you do not approve of minis also?

This proposed policy could make for some interesting fine print on tourney flyers:

A $50-$75 fee has already been paid to the pDGA.
(thanks pDGA for placing the event on your schedule)

$2-$3 of your entry fee will be sent to pDGA HQ.
(thanks pDGA for accepting our scores)

pDGA non-members will not be given a "$10 discount" on entry fees.
(thanks pDGA for "allowing" non-members to participate)

Your extra $10 will give you a "soft membership".
(thanks pDGA for not providing ratings on the non-member rounds)

The first $50 of all am non-members' winnings will be sent to the pDGA.
(thanks pDGA for making my choice for me)

The first $75 of all pro non-members' winnings will also be sent to the pDGA.
(thanks pDGA for not taking my first born)

Be sure to thank your TD for choosing to make the biggest
money winner of this B/C tier event ... the pDGA.
Do not dare to ask where all this money is spent either.

Do not dare to ask where all this money is spent either.

Why can't you ask how the money is spent? It's not like the PDGA posts files where you can see stuff like that, right?

Bill/exczar

Here is what I could find pDGA budget summary (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09PDGABudget-Summary.pdf)

Can you make a clear determination of the fees collected and where they were spent from these summary numbers?

Further detailed information requires a pDGA document request form (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGADocumentRequestForm.pdf).

They may get back to you if they deem your request worthy.
By the way, you must mail your request.
"E-mails are not considered to be written requests for this purpose."


steve timm

Be sure to thank your TD for choosing to make the biggest
money winner of this B/C tier event ... the pDGA.
Whoops! You forgot to "Thank" the PDGA for allowing you to post your slanted approach to "Thank Yous" on this Board...:rolleyes:

The latest report appears to be in line with what has been produced in the past. The "fees" are shown under Membership and Tour Events, and how they were spent is shown under the various Expenses categories. The "fees" are not, as a general rule, designated to be spent only in certain expense categories.

If you want to know more, go ahead and fill out the request form. It will get reviewed, and you will get an answer.

Mr. Fossil, thank you for an interesting topic. How rare they have become when the hammer and sickle rule the land.

I think your idea is excellent, Mr. Fossil.

"hammer and sickle rule the land"? Thank you for clarifying what you think of the Obama administration. You are not alone.

I was referring to a different administration, but I can see where you would think otherwise.

Obama is on quite the power trip, just like when pDGA moderators insult our sponsors' plastic and think they are above the law. Does Harold know a pDGA moderator is calling his product "crappy"?

Hopefully, it was the moderator under his/her private account making that statement, and not under the moderator acct.

I hope you wouldn't bring that up if you knew the mod made that statement under his/her private, non-mod acct.

I have been an advocate of giving memberships as prizes since the early 90's.

The scenario I presented HQ back then (which is accentuated even more now with the increased number of sanctioned events) was this: what if a single membership was given away as a prize at every sanctioned event? Wouldn't that be an easy way to both boost membership and overall growth?
This year there are upwards of 1000 sanctioned events (I don't know the exact #, but last year was over 900). They wouldn't have to go to non or non current members (but certainly could). Would this be overly burdensome on a TD's profit on Am prizes Bruce?

Can you make a clear determination of the fees collected and where they were spent from these summary numbers?


That looks like a rhetorical question, slanted to suggest that no one could possibly make any sense out of this pathetically inadequate report. Regardless of your intent, the answer is: yes, it's easy to see where money came from and where it went.

I'm just curious steve, but what exactly do you want to know that isn't disclosed? And, why? You give the impression that there are some shenanigans going on. Do you think they're spending too much for their office supplies?

Also, do you have any expertise interpreting and analysing financial statements, and more specifically, those of non-profits like PDGA? You directly referenced the form a member must complete in order to receive copies of other reports . . . but you balk at printing a hardcopy and dropping it in the US Mail !?! This sure makes it appear like you'd rather snidely hint at malfeasance with no evidence than make the tiny effort required to find the truth.

I guess I don't expect any responsive, substantial answers from anyone on this board, but I enjoy a surprise as much as anyone :)

That looks like a rhetorical question, slanted to suggest that no one could possibly make any sense out of this pathetically inadequate report. Regardless of your intent, the answer is: yes, it's easy to see where money came from and where it went.

I'm just curious steve, but what exactly do you want to know that isn't disclosed? And, why? You give the impression that there are some shenanigans going on. Do you think they're spending too much for their office supplies?

Also, do you have any expertise interpreting and analysing financial statements, and more specifically, those of non-profits like PDGA? You directly referenced the form a member must complete in order to receive copies of other reports . . . but you balk at printing a hardcopy and dropping it in the US Mail !?! This sure makes it appear like you'd rather snidely hint at malfeasance with no evidence than make the tiny effort required to find the truth.

I guess I don't expect any responsive, substantial answers from anyone on this board, but I enjoy a surprise as much as anyone :)

Mr. Cary

Where to start?
Slanted/admittedly quilty
Rhetorical/debatable
Snidely/Whiplash:p
pathetically inadequate report, shenanigans, malfeasance/your words, not mine

Income:
Memberships 08 actual $617,456 09 budget $705,000
Renews, News, Ace/Birdie/Eagle, International, Multi-Year, Family & Affiliated Club Discounts, online handling fee.
Tour Events 08 actual $360,960 09 budget $353,100
Sanctioning, Insurance, Player and Non-Current Member Fees, International event fees, Worlds Registration handling fee

Expenses:
Fulfillment Services 08 actual $149,476 09 budget $179,400
Receive process & fulfill memberships, merchandise, event packages, promo & info kits, direct mails, incl supplies, postage, fees charged
Other Membership Benefits 08 actual $160,384 09 budget $180,600
Magazine, new member discs/minis, Ace/Birdie/Eagle Club gifts, ratings processing, 10 & 20 year member bag tags, stickers.

These general categories make it hard/impossible to determine true costs for services as well as the revenue generated by membership and events. What does the magazine cost? What does membership processing cost? Direct mail? Ratings? Worlds DVD?.......

One time, that I am aware of, the pDGA provided a detailed listing of revenue and expenses. And it took a board member sticking his neck on the line to make it happen. Now that information is only available by special written request that MAY be deemed worthy of a response. Not progress in my view.

I read somewhere that one of the pDGA founders stressed transparency because "We have nothing to hide."

My personal experience with non-profits may surprise you. I served our community (New Orleans) post Katrina in the process of "awarding" over $15,000,000 in relief based upon the needs and viability of our local non-profit agencies. This funding process allowed mental health agencies, senior citizen programs, a school and several other community agencies to remain open when their funding was "washed away" and their services were most needed.

Your assumptions regarding my motives and experience are way off. My tone is often misunderstood and I am the first to admit that I am spoiled with the openness and the system in place with the Southern Nationals.

I have chosen to remain a member of this organization, to remain informed and be a part of "growing this sport."

steve timm

For the George Ward Memorial tourney I'm TDing on Sept 19, I plan to have a CTP for anyone who has never joined the PDGA. Winner will get their $10 fee returned and will get a free 16 month PDGA membership.

Time will tell if it garners more than the normal amount of non-PDGA players or not.