I'm new to tournament competition, but looking over the registration for the May 30/31 Summertime Open in Sylmar, CA I see that PDGA #34855 (Paul Morgavo) is registered in intermediate, with a current rating of 941.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8846

I thought the whole point of the ratings system was to insure that people who are rated at a certain level don't sandbag and compete against people with lower ratings, so how can that registration be legitimate?

From the competition manual:
2.2. Exceptions
A. Players are allowed to enter a ratings based division they
would otherwise be ineligible to participate only under the
following circumstances
(1) If approved before the event by the PDGA Tour
Manager.
(2) Players who have become ineligible for a division due
to a ratings update may participate for two weeks
following the update, provided they are pre-registered
for the event in question, at the discretion of the TD.

I'm new to tournament competition, but looking over the registration for the May 30/31 Summertime Open in Sylmar, CA I see that PDGA #34855 (Paul Morgavo) is registered in intermediate, with a current rating of 941.
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8846

I thought the whole point of the ratings system was to insure that people who are rated at a certain level don't sandbag and compete against people with lower ratings, so how can that registration be legitimate?

If you look at the player's ratings history, he was 919 when he registered before the recent ratings update:
http://www.pdga.com/player-ratings-history?PDGANum=34855&year=2009

You should have looked up the guys stats before you called him out like that. He had never been higher than 925, obviously not a bagger just a victim of double weighting. Not cool to start a thread about him.

obviously not a bagger just a victim of double weighting.

Especially when his last round was rated 1000. That'll give anyone a nice boost in the ratings.

Good ole PDGA! Never can make a strong stand on an important issue.

Bottom line is that the guy is 941 rated now. The TD should move him up. But next time I would ask the question without calling the guy out since he probably didn't know he was going to make a jump like that.

I'd point this out to the TD and see what he says.

Good ole PDGA! Never can make a strong stand on an important issue.

Bottom line is that the guy is 941 rated now. The TD should move him up. But next time I would ask the question without calling the guy out since he probably didn't know he was going to make a jump like that.I think the two-week window with TD discretion is a good thing. If you are carpooling to a multi-pool multi-venue tournament, or if you got Saturday off to play Intermediate and did not get Sunday off to play Advanced, the TD can exercise his discretion. If it is a one-pool tournament with everyone playing the same courses at the same time, the TD might exercise his discretion another way. Or he might reward the guy for pre-reging with one last go as an intermediate.

Especially when his last round was rated 1000. That'll give anyone a nice boost in the ratings.

Actually his last rounds were rated 904 and 885.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8970&year=2009&include_ratings=1#Open






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That event was not included in the May 19 update for him of course, but it does reflect more typical round ratings for him. I wish i had a 1000 rated round...good for him!

:eek:either way he appears to be good enough to play adv. he has 1 win 2 seconds and a 3rd. time to move up...

It's really not his fault that you don't know the rules. He would be bagging if he were to intentionally play poorly this weekend so as to get back into intermediate in July. It's not bagging to play in a division allowed by the rules.

really? i'm not cool for starting a thread about a guy rated 941 who is so insecure as to seek to play against lesser competition? that dude plays in tourneys all the time. that's his average. there is no defense for bagging, and this chump is the definition of it.

Yeaah...not cool at all. Sounds like you have a personal problem with this guy & you need to keep it off the message board. Read all the posts & rethink your attack. Seewhere kinda agreed with you but he kinda set you up too becasue YOU have a win and a second in Am2....why don't YOU move up.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see where he played a tournament as an intermediate since his rating went up. Now that his rating is 941 he won't have a choice but to play advanced.

jmonny you may want to check that I never have played MA2. I have been playing open for a while now.. but thanks

"Seewhere kinda agreed with you but he kinda set you up too becasue YOU have a win and a second in Am2....why don't YOU move up."

You guys are all confused.

PhattD - the dude rated 941 was registered for the event with a 919 rating before the latest ratings update, thus he can play in the tournament in the intermediate division since the tournament is within two weeks of the latest ratings update. See Ratings FAQ (http://www.pdga.com/faq/278#278n757).

seewhere - jmonny wasn't referring to you when he mentioned AM2, he was referring to unwrinkledear.

really? i'm not cool for starting a thread about a guy rated 941 who is so insecure as to seek to play against lesser competition? that dude plays in tourneys all the time. that's his average. there is no defense for bagging, and this chump is the definition of it.

unwrinkledear (Andrew Choate), you have no class. You really need to read the PDGA rules before you come here bashing another PDGA player.

Also if PDGA ratings were updated on a more frequent basis taking into account his last rating at Fling XIII (895) then his current rating would be 925.

Some forum readers here may call into question if you are the bagger per your last tournament (Fling XIII, Chavez Ridge at Elysian Park). Playing in MA2 at your home course in which you do course maintenance and shot a -8, the best score in the first round over the entire field including Cliff Towne, an open player. Maybe you were too worried about another San Diego Aces member beating you at your home course in MA1.

You guys are all confused.

PhattD - the dude rated 941 was registered for the event with a 919 rating before the latest ratings update, thus he can play in the tournament in the intermediate division since the tournament is within two weeks of the latest ratings update. See Ratings FAQ (http://www.pdga.com/faq/278#278n757).

seewhere - jmonny wasn't referring to you when he mentioned AM2, he was referring to unwrinkledear.

Right the tournament was May 16th his 941 rating was effective May 19th. So it's not just when he registered, he was still rated 919 as of the tournament. What's the problem?

See the very first post in this thread. He's preregged for a tournament coming up on the 30th & 31st.

See the very first post in this thread. He's preregged for a tournament coming up on the 30th & 31st.

Ah that's what I missed thanks

Wow! I�m thrilled to see that I�ve started such a ruckus; oh wait, I didn�t start it, Andrew Choate did. I don�t get what the big deal is Andrew.
As a 919 rated player I registered for Sylmar.
I then played Spring Fling at Morley Field, my home course, and threw a -1, which I thought to be not so good on a course were I�ve thrown much better. But the rest of the field had trouble with the course and the -1 ends up as a 1000 rated round.
2 weeks later the new ratings came out bumping me up to 941.
The rules, lucky for me, work in my favor in this case. (I guess I�ll be playing advance at Eldorado next month)

But wait, there�s more to the story�
Between Morley (5/2) and the new ratings (5/18) was the Fling XIII (5/16), where Andrew threw a -8 in his first round on his home course; the mummers of �bagger� quickly followed. I don�t know the details of what happened on his card in the first round, but there was a lot of talk when I came in from my round. Near the end of the 2nd round a foot fault was called and seconded but Andrew (6 strokes ahead) refused to re-putt, stating, �don�t be a sore loser.� I figured the Bagger talk got into his head, plus he was so far ahead it wouldn�t have mattered anyway. A few words boiled over at the awards ceremony and even Cliff (?I think) made special mention of the PDGA ratings and how they were in place for a reason and that �certain people� will move up when the rating and rules say they need to.

So ultimately I�m not bothered about being questioned, I�ll play where the rules and ratings say to play, that�s why we�re part of the PDGA; I�m bothered, Andrew, that you publicly came at me with this ruse of ignorance; playing the �Oh I�m new and don�t know the rules� game hoping to drum up sympathy on the Discussion Boards. You lit the fire under my feet hoping the flames would catch on, �I thought the whole point of the ratings system was to insure that people who are rated at a certain level don't sandbag and compete against people with lower ratings, so how can that registration be legitimate?� And you knew what you were doing. I have a word for people like you but I will show a little respect for this Board and hold my tongue.

See you in Sylmar
PM

What's really funny about this "ruckus" is a 941 player will, on average, beat a 935 rated player by .6 of a stroke. I think we should start a congressional inquiry due to the unfairness of it all.

Morgavo.....It's great to see you have a positive attitude about this. It was obvious to me what Choate was trying to do & it backfired mightily. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll earn much respect on this message board and more importantly on the course.

<script src="http://www.gmodules.com/ig/ifr?url=http://www.google.com/ig/modules/youtube.xml&up_channel=unwrinkledear&container=youtube&w=500&h=390&title=&border=%23ffffff%7C3px%2C1px+solid+%23999999&output=js"></script>

Is this the same Andrew Choke?

Is this the same Andrew Choke?

Yes it is. So we are all unique in our own way.

Andrew, next time I would suggest posting a question without calling someone a sandbagger, chump, etc. You probably would have had more favorable responses if you simply stated your question, "How can someone play in a lower division with a higher rated score?"

I was a witness to the Fling XIII event (at your home course) and the only bagger comments from the locals there were directed at you. And yes, even the TD had to explain bagger rules after the catcalls of "bagger" came your way at the ceremony.

However, with your rating during the time you were perfectly within the PDGA rules to play MA2 at your home course. Just as it is within the PDGA rules for Paul to play in MA2 at Sylmar this upcoming weekend.

The only reason his rating is 941 was because he shot a -1 at his home course (which really isn't anything special) but was rated 1000 because the rest of the field choked. I was surprised to see the MA1 division scores at the Morley Spring Fling weren't lower, and so his current PDGA rating is somewhat inflated. Recently, he shot an 895 at Fling XIII while you shot well above a 965. Are you really that worried about a player with a .6 stroke advantage over you on a lagged rating score?

Near the end of the 2nd round a foot fault was called and seconded but Andrew (6 strokes ahead) refused to re-putt, stating, �don�t be a sore loser.� I figured the Bagger talk got into his head, plus he was so far ahead it wouldn�t have mattered anyway.

Wait...he was called on a foot fault...refused to re-putt...and was allowed to win? I'd call for a DQ.

wow, foot faulted and seconded and didnt rethrow?

how did he win without holing out?

Why did he still win and not get DQ'ed? Because no one there defended that Rule. The Rules cannot defend themselves, people, only we can, so don't get mad or defensive when someone does, or try to make the defender of the Rules the "bad guy".

yes yes,...

that wasnt a technical 'how?"

but more of an astonished "how?"

Men that are capable of playing 1000 rated rounds shouldn't be playing in ANY Amateur division. You guys need to quit pretending and step up.

The corollary would be that 1000 rated players who shoot 921 rated rounds (Sherando Springs) shouldn't play pro?

You and I should meet sometime ck - it would be fun.

I'd love to get out to Patapsco again and see the changes at Seneca since the mid-90s. I might try to swing wide on my drive to the Summit meetings in Georgia one of these times.