Two questions about rule 801.04. Someone help....I feel like I'm overreading something obvious here.

In several subsections, there is a different procedure if an error is detected "before a subsequent throw", or "after a subsequent throw". Does this mean a subsequent throw by that particular player---or a throw by anyone in the group? I don't read where it's clear, either way (and I could argue for it, either way).

For Non-Sequential Play (801.04(5)), Skipping a Hole---after a subsequent throw, the hole being played is completed, and "the player shall proceed to play the course in its proper order from the point where the misplay began". For example, if a player finishes hole 3, the erroneously plays and completes hole 7, does he then move on to hole 8, 9, 10, etc.? Isn't hole 7 "the point where the misplay began"?

Or does he go to hole 4 (where he should have gone), play 4, 5, 6, skip 7 (hole is not to be replayed), and go on to 8, 9, 10, etc., with a 2 stroke penalty for the misplay? This seems more logical to me---but is it what the wording of the rule is saying?

I think I've stared at this section too long. Can someone clarify it for me?

You are right, these rules do not specifically state that the subequent throw is by the player, or by someone else in the group, but I am 99.9% percent sure that the "subsequent throw" is referring ONLY to the player in question, not any other player in the group.

And where to go when you finished the erroneous hole - this one I am sure of. Part C states:

"C. In instances where the misplay rules affect players within a group differently, the group shall remain together while a hole is being completed by some of the group to verify scoring and rules compliance."

Let's say that two players had to complete hole 7, and the other two in the group observed. You wouldn't then have two players go to hole 8, then two players go to hole 4; all players would go to hole 4, then when the group got to hole 7, only the two who have not yet played the hole would proceed, and then when done, they would all tee on hole 8.

And, when they go to hole 4, the teeing order is not affected by what the two players shot on hole 7. Those scores only come into play when the group is teeing on hole 8.

Bill is correct. The key is really whether the player can treat the misplay as a practice throw with only a one stroke penalty, or whether two throws have been completed which removes the single penalty stroke option. The change in penalty options only makes sense if it refers to the same player making their subsequent throw.

As far as the starting point of the misplay, the misplay committed by the players started on hole 7, but the misplay of omission started on hole 4 and kind of came first.

Thanks for both replies.

Regarding the subsequent throw, I was thinking of other sports where an action by any player changes ruling. In baseball, batting out of order, there's one remedy if caught before completion of the at-bat....but a different situation once a pitch is made to the next batter. In baseball or football appeals, one more play removes opportunity for appeal. I had always assumed the disc golf rule applied to a subsequent throw by the guilty player, but in re-reading it could not be sure. I like the premise that the second throw on the wrong hole equates to a 2 stroke penalty either way, as reasoning for this position.

For the skipped hole, almost all scenarios I can think of involve a whole group skipping a hole and completing another. Hard to imagine 1 or 2 players doing so while the rest of their group played the stipulated course correct. Unless, perhaps, an dispute arose on a poorly-marked course as to which was the next hole.

Because of the subsequent throw clause, it is possible for only a couple of players on the card to completely miss a hole.

True example from 2008 Ice Bowl in Paradise -

Group of four plays Hole 12 then goes to Hole 14 tee thinking it is next hole. All players tee. Two players take second shot. Now the players realize they are on the wrong hole. The two players that have already played a second shot now complete the hole and add two strokes. The two players that only threw a tee shot pick up discs and wait for other players to finish hole. All players go to Hole 13 and play the missed hole. Then the two players who did not finish Hole 14, tee and play hole 14 and add the one stroke practice throw to score.

Two players received two penalty strokes for the misplay. The other two players received only one practice stroke penalty for the same misplay because they had not taken subsequent throws themselves.

Discette,

I was trying to think of a situation when only part of the group would have to finish the hole and some would not, and you gave it!

I was trying to think of a situation where part of the group would have to finish the hole, and the other members of the group incurred no penalty, but I guess that can't happen, unless (really reaching here) a player throws a second shot before everyone has teed off - say the player threw OB and erroneously thought that he could immediately throw again.

Anybody else think of a dissimilar situation one person would have to finish the hole and another emerge unscathed?

A mixed group of Int and Adv where Adv was using the long tees and Int was using the short tees and had not tee'd yet.

That came quickly to mind because I played on just such a card in my last tournament.