below is from Mace. Here is the latest schedule I believe

PIO Jan 10 Bear Creek.
Enter here http://titledisc.com/eventDisplay.php?eventid=379

No Big Show

A 2 Z Doubles Feb 7-8
Z Boaz Open March 21-22
Cedar Hill April or May
Waco June 6-7

Why can't Mace ever post his own information on the board?

his consistant stream of volunteers has his back.

Which weekend is Red Rock Show? I thought it was just about that time.....right after World Doubles.

The Red Rock Show is March 21-22

There are no other clear weekends in DFW in that time frame.

I think we hit 80 sanctioned events last year, and we have quite a few unsanctioned events too. I've already got two requests for events on the same weekend as TX Womens.

too many irons in the fire will put the fire out.

Texas had a lot of very small attended events...we will just repeat the same out-come for next year.
A bunch of people not working together producing small turn outs.....try saying no to over booking events (we don't need to be running 80+ events for the PDGA)We should be running 80+ events for Texas not some country club in Georgia. Most of these could of been fund raisers for other events and or SN qualifiers.
<-----------shakin head....when is Texas going to see the light?

Have to agree with you Mr. Miller.

This shouldn't be a competition to see who can have the most, just the best. ;)

I think most of the problem is we have 60% more courses in Texas than we had 5 years ago and every one of them wants to run a tourney.

Sounds a lot the current state of our economy, lots of excess in the market, and only the strong will survive.

I would think that with the downturn, folks will be cutting back a bit this coming year. Maybe some of those newer venues stick with one day events, and leave the old standards alone.

BTW, this is really a major thread drift, and I don't post on Maceman threads for a reason.

Will any of Mace Man's events be PDGA sanctioned?

read the PIO thread

too many irons in the fire will put the fire out.

Texas had a lot of very small attended events...we will just repeat the same out-come for next year.
A bunch of people not working together producing small turn outs.....try saying no to over booking events (we don't need to be running 80+ events for the PDGA)We should be running 80+ events for Texas not some country club in Georgia. Most of these could of been fund raisers for other events and or SN qualifiers.
<-----------shakin head....when is Texas going to see the light?



NO to the SN qualifiers. I have not and never will play one.

Now the Texas Idea, I would like to see us do something about that, but we have talked about it in the past and I just don't see it happening in the future. (Gimp nearly had it going a few years ago)

too many irons in the fire will put the fire out.

Texas had a lot of very small attended events...we will just repeat the same out-come for next year.
A bunch of people not working together producing small turn outs.....try saying no to over booking events (we don't need to be running 80+ events for the PDGA)We should be running 80+ events for Texas not some country club in Georgia. Most of these could of been fund raisers for other events and or SN qualifiers.
<-----------shakin head....when is Texas going to see the light?

Texas has, Vinnie sir. so has OK and some say KS. i see a midwest region doing the good works nefa-style combined with a championship buildup along the lines of SN. we're all ready. we just have not admitted it yet. i'm betting this year is the year it starts.

As Pizza said, it has been discussed, it has never gotten off the ground. No one wants to send their $1 to a single event. Everyone wants to promote their own series.

I am all for dual sanctioning a lot of the events in Texas as long as we get an SN Championship here.

I can't stop anyone from running an event, and rarely would be able to keep one from being sanctioned if they requested it from the PDGA. All I can do is try to avoid strong conflicts in the same area on the same dates. Even that is wishful thinking at times.

We have three major markets in Texas that should be able to support at least two events a month and fill them as long as they were not aimed at the same level of players.

Events outside of the major markets need a little help, and I try to give it to them by trying to keep the markets they draw from clear on their weekends.

I can go for days on this, but more well run events that cater to newbies and ams is not a problem. I agree there needs to be some coordination and cooperation in developing fewer and more meaningful Pro events, but more small events do not damage that goal.

Also, this year you have the Super Class option as an alternative to handle overflow from heavy demand for a regular PDGA event and potentially lower divisions, especially for your new or shorter courses where it makes more sense.

I am all for dual sanctioning a lot of the events in Texas as long as we get an SN Championship here.



I don't think that Texas would have any problem getting the SN championships there. The championships have been having problems finding host sites recently. The do think that there would need to be more qualifiers in Texas first though. (The board was hesitant giving the championship to Memphis for this reason for 2010)

Also, Pizza, I am interested in why you have such strong hate against the SN.

I think a lot of people do see the light.....everyone just sees a different colored light :D

Anyone have any new ideas on the statewide thing?

I think a lot of people do see the light.....everyone just sees a different colored light :D

Anyone have any new ideas on the statewide thing?



There are lots of "NEW" ideas, but everyone that has one thinks that their idea is the only one worth acting on. :( :( :confused:

Also, Pizza, I am interested in why you have such strong hate against the SN.



I have been around for a while, it goes way back. I understand why it was started, and also understand the many of the people now in the sport have forgotten.

It all goes back to the anti-PDGA stuff from the early 90's.

In general, I think the PDGA is trying to take steps in the right direction, sometimes it is the wrong step and they step in dodo, but in general, I like what the PDGA has become. (tournament structure, tiers and requirements)

Also, Pizza, I am interested in why you have such strong hate against the SN.



I have been around for a while, it goes way back. I understand why it was started, and also understand the many of the people now in the sport have forgotten.

It all goes back to the anti-PDGA stuff from the early 90's.



Wow, that's a long time ago, maybe it's time to reconsider what SN is today.

I love the fact that it is more relaxed, better championship payouts, and not sooooooooooo ratings/rule Nazi's. :D

I think a lot of people do see the light.....everyone just sees a different colored light :D

Anyone have any new ideas on the statewide thing?



There are lots of "NEW" ideas, but everyone that has one thinks that their idea is the only one worth acting on. :( :( :confused:



This is true, but the status quo doesn't appear to be maximizing Texas tournament schedule. It's just a free-for-all, everyone get to Gary to schedule their tournament, and then others avoiding dates due to pointless restrictions.

Which restrictions are you referring to?

The only restrictions I am aware of are distance based on Tier, and they are so short that they almost have no bearing on Texas events. I do try to recommend that larger B-Tiers that draw from the same area do not schedule on the same weekend, but I can't restrict them.

There's really an interesting problem here. Hypothetically, I think Texas could support 1000 players playing in 10 tournaments all on the same day. Some areas will have more than 100, some fewer... but we could support it. Not all areas are balanced though. Some players like to travel, some don't. So right now there are two *basic* choices:

Option #1 - Quantity
This option is good for the players who will not be likely to travel 100+ miles to an event. They end up with more choices because there are more events close to home. The end result would like be a larger participation in the sport as a whole... thus "growing" the sport.

Option #2 - Quality
This option entails limiting the number of events so that players are forced to travel to the long-standing tournaments, if they want to compete. This benefits the bigger events because more of the tour players are there and big names generally draw participation. Newer players (and those without travel budgets) suffer because they don't get as many feasible options. The end result is likely bigger and better events... thus "growing" the sport.

Each of these options has merit. Not that long ago I proposed a statewide system that would (in my opinion) help find the best of both worlds. It would involve a system of points and required participation. There would be many C-tiers (and potentially unsanctioned)events that max out at 80 players each, to serve as "points producers". Then larger, regional B-tiers that would require a certain level of points for entry. Then a few A-tiers (these are the big, established events) that require even more points, along with participation in at least one B-tier. Top it off with an A-tier final at the end of the year... Maybe TX States, I dunno.

I certainly don't have all of the logistics worked out but I think that if we had a meeting of the minds among all the established Texas TDs, we could come up with something that works well. I already have some software written that could manage the thing... and IMO it could be done for free. It just needs to be hashed out and brought to fruition. Or redesigned and reimagined... the point is that we could get together and build a system that works better than what the PDGA currently offers us. I can even provide a message board outside of the PDGA so that everyone can participate.

Anyone interested? :)

Team Justice would be happy to be included in any "Talks"...This year we have 4 "C" and 3 "B" qualifiers and 1 "A/B" Final...I think a lot of people are on the same page, but we need someone to step up and take control...Texas could easily have 3 or 4 regions that had series during the year( and did not conflict with each others events) and then a big ol Final that everyone chipped in on at the end...but the sticking point seems to be "Who gets the Final :o"

you have mail

It�s not often you�ll find me agreeing politically with Pizza Dog ;) ,but I ,too, feel that we need to stop picking apart our organized body no matter how fallible we find it to be. It�s much easier to quit than it is to take on responsibility. Make your voice heard to bring about change (Yes We Can). To devide and separate can do nothing more than show people outside the sport that we�re not responsible enough to be taken seriously. It IS that simple.
If we were to break ourselves down to smaller factions it would be inevitable that some good friends feelings would be stepped on. For instance, Josh, your suggestion to finalize a Texas competition took you to Houston with the States. I believe you would find that the VPO did better this year per participant (not sure but it has to be close) and it is the oldest �A� tier event in Texas. I�m not trying to start a conflict with that statement, but it could be another start to further division even in the state if certain factions were fighting for the right to be the best.
I�m hoping you see my point that we need to strengthen our love for this sport by trying to remain in tact as a single group and show the world that we have a lot to offer ourselves and future generations. Yes, some things still need development. Let�s resolve to contribute to that development not tear it apart and discard it.
I would hope that the SN tour would find a way to include themselves in the over all picture with some sort of organized compromises that would open the door to some of the changes we�d like to see come about. After all we are using the PDGA�s Discussion Board to exchange ideas and info even if it suggests rebuking their rule as our sanctioning body. The restrictions they hold over this board deal with vulgarity and personal attacks, not ideas.

p.s.
I want to see a Partial Renewal enacted. (See thread in the Rules)

Team Justice would be happy to be included in any "Talks"...This year we have 4 "C" and 3 "B" qualifiers and 1 "A/B" Final...I think a lot of people are on the same page, but we need someone to step up and take control...Texas could easily have 3 or 4 regions that had series during the year( and did not conflict with each others events) and then a big ol Final that everyone chipped in on at the end...but the sticking point seems to be "Who gets the Final :o"



Why not rotate the final between the regions. DFW gets it one year, Houston another year, and Austin/San Antonio another?

start a new thread!
I have been passing around a purposal for Texas golf looking for input. Email me if you are interested in being involed with this. I have already received some input and would like to puTT together something we can TRY to agree to.
Now leave Mace alone:)

I agree with your general framework. Who gets the final shouldn't be much of a holdup, since imo, there is no real final-final, or no real need for one, as each region will work towards a couple of big regional events. In other words, I hope every region considers their event(s) to be the best event for the year.

All we need from the centralized control standpoint is an effort to set up a general schedule separating the big regional events apart, and cajoling regions to participate, and to hopefully participate by:

1 scheduling the big events at the best courses; and

2.using at least two courses per event.

If a region decides not to participate, or can't work together, it's their loss, as their set aside date will go unused, or underused.

Skip...I do not want to divide at all...I want everyone to work together...We are trying to run a local series so people in Central Texas can play in quality events without having to travel...We gave up 2 weekends this year...and we had one weekend (11 year established event) changed by the PDGA that ends up with us on the same weekend with Z-Boaz...I support Gary and the PDGA 100%...I just think the TD's could work together better...I have not spoken to Mace in over 2 years...I have never spoken with the Houston guys ever...I know VPO wants to go to 2 weekends again...and our "A" tier weekend would be perfect for that...We would be up for talking about moving our Final to open up that weekend...But...no one has asked


My point is we could all work together to bring a better Quality season for all Texas players

vinne, please send me the proposal at patb@earthoffice.net

all, we need to focus on the big picture also, not get bogged down too early in the details. the biggest idea is to form something of our own, perhaps with neighboring state(s) on a regional basis, that provides us most of the benefits we currently get from the PDGA, but structured financially so that we can keep more of our disc golf money local.

theres prolly a million ways to organize the effort, and whatever we pick will almost certainly change. lets pick something and get started. it'll be ok to change the details once there is some momentum.

So that's what it's really all about isn't it ... money.

Excuse me while I get a bandaid for my bleeding heart. :confused:

Our own governing body will make it easier to be a leader amongst my peers....we can even have our own Hall of Fame. I nominate the first member of the Texas Hall of Fame as the best course designer in the sport and former two time PDGA President John Houck. I wonder if he'd accept.

I 2nd that nominating, then add these for the next inductions

Biff Barfield
Bill Burns
Tim Wiediker (Sorry, I don't have an old rules book to look up and see how to spell his name)
These are the guys I remember were the movers and shakers when I first started up playing, Biff has passed, Tim moved north of the boarder, but still plays and Bill is still around.

Then after those guys are in the Texas Disc Golf Hall of Fame, I would nominate

Danny Waldron
Dirk Snow
Dave Nesbitt
Andi Leamen (I know I spelt that one wrong too)
Chris Himing
and of course Gary Duke

All of these guys have really changed the face of Disc Golf in Texas in the last 20 years I have been playing. From the work that Danny and Dirk have done in the Dallas area, to the work that Dave and Andi have done in the Houston area, the work that Chris did with the Texas 10 and then what Gary Duke did with the State Coordinators position. (Thanks for taking over for me Gary, it is a Thankless job)

then in the 3rd round we could name 100's of TD who have added quite a bit to this sport in Texas.

Vinnie Miller
Billy West
Jerry Power
Brian Mace
Terry Toolen
Dane Bass (I think he may be in the rock climbers hall of fame now)
Kent Bray
Kevin (from Pease park)
John "Gimp" from Houston
Dana Bell
Kelly from Arlington (forgot first name)
dang it, I can't remember anyone else's name, Sorry if I didn't put you on this list, it was just off the top of my head

Don Wilchek should be on your list, too. Not sure if I spelled that one right.

Oh yes

Don Willcheck
Thomas Bertrain (Stroke Saver)

I told you I could not remember everyone of them.

How about Dave Tayloe, How could I forget him, he should be a top tier guys

along with Gordan Kelly (or what ever his last name is now :D) who should also be at least a 2nd tier (if not first) guy.

I think we are approaching the problem from the wrong angle.
There are three distinct interest groups in Disc golf.

The beginner/novice player wondering about getting involved in tournament play.

The Intermediate/Advanced/Pro players interested in moderate sized events where they can compete, but not spend a lot of money.

Intermediate/Advanced/Pro players interested in the largest fields, purses, and best competition they can find.

There needs to be a large number of low cost small to medium events with mixed fun formats that caters to the first group of players that brings new players into the tournament scene. They need to be supported by the more experienced players with clinics and how-to demonstrations. Probably two in each area on the same weekends. Maybe one on Saturday on one side of town and another on Sunday on the other side of town.

There should be about two medium to large B-Tiers with reasonable prices in each area each month to provide the second group with opportunities to travel and play.

There should be no more than one large and expensive event every other month for the top players to compete. These should be associated with large am events, but on separate weekends. They should showcase the top players and give the top am players a place to test their skills.

At least this is the way I see the opportunities for growth out there. We do not need more of the same type of event all fighting for the same players, we need more differently focused events, each targeting a different group of potential players.

So, who's playing? :confused: wtf? :p

when? :p

Andi Lehman
Kelly Hicks

Tayloe was a big player here and brought the game to San Antonio.

We're drifting a bit though. Vinnie, Pat, Mitch,et al....you know I love and respect you all and I'll always want to contribute to the growth of our game, but not at the expence of the decades of growth and promotion we've had in our history. It is just like promoting the seccession of Texas from the USA. I know that sounds melodramatic, but I believe we hurt our chances to become recognized when we have so many nashing teeth exposed. It's the proverbial baby and bath water philosophy.

If Texas has so much good golf, why isn't there a USDGC qualifier in our great state anymore? Tulsa and Little Rock are long distances for most people unless you in in the Metroplex area. We can see how the PDGA feels about our area. :(

Succession of sorts for Texas golf............sounds interesting.

We're drifting a bit though.



Yah think? When I opened this thread I thought it was going to be about MM events..... :)

that is what the thread is for :mad:not for all the old time TD's to discuss tourney issues and nominate Td;s that dont run events anymore into some sort of Texas HOF??? please like V said if you want to discuss the deteration of texas golf start your own thread or do it in email...

NOW BACK TO MACE"S events SHEESH

If Texas has so much good golf, why isn't there a USDGC qualifier in our great state anymore? Tulsa and Little Rock are long distances for most people unless you in in the Metroplex area. We can see how the PDGA feels about our area. :(

Succession of sorts for Texas golf............sounds interesting.



The PDGA does not run AM Nats. ;)

Team Justice would be happy to be included in any "Talks"...This year we have 4 "C" and 3 "B" qualifiers and 1 "A/B" Final...I think a lot of people are on the same page, but we need someone to step up and take control...Texas could easily have 3 or 4 regions that had series during the year( and did not conflict with each others events) and then a big ol Final that everyone chipped in on at the end...but the sticking point seems to be "Who gets the Final :o"



Why not rotate the final between the regions. DFW gets it one year, Houston another year, and Austin/San Antonio another?



East Texas could be considered in this as well. We will soon have 3 courses in one park and two additonal courses that could be spilled over onto, all within 15 minutes of each other.

why is it that Texas has more courses than any other state in the country and we can't get an NT event scheduled in this great state.

have we tried? last i heard we declined the most recent NT offer.

Potential NT hosts now submit requests to run one and I don't believe the PDGA got a Texas bid for 2009. At least one TX NT in the past was downgraded to A-tier because host couldn't comply with the guidelines accepted by other NTs. I think Innova not the PDGA determines USDGC qualifiers.

please use this thread for MACE MAN EVENTS not Texas disc golf ...Dont make me have the moderators delete it

Is that a threat :eek: :D

Long live the MaceMan

:p

the PDGA doesn't have rules against thread drift, so we're safe :D Now, if I were to make a comment about how the PDGA *should* have rules against it... I might get banned for life.

Back to the original topic, MaceMan events will not be sanctioned this year. I'm not sure he's interested in ever running another sanctioned event, but it's been awhile since he and I had that discussion.

other than ratings I am not sure what sanctioning gets you :confused:

Well you do get the opportunity to send more hard-earned Texas Disc Golf money out-of-state.

Texas Series discussion moved to this (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=898696&Main=898696#Post8 98696) thread

other than ratings I am not sure what sanctioning gets you :confused:



I know they are the small minority of the disc golfing world, but in speaking to a few sponsored players, it makes a difference. Bonuses for those folks are only in play for sanctioned events, so the payouts would have to be gigantic (i.e. pre-sanctioning MSDGC) to make it worth their while.

Like I said, I know that is very much the minority of the golfing world, but a lot of events are targeted at getting the "names" of the sport to show up.

Hey yea whiners and diners

THE MASK is coming to PIO so get ready!

I'm gonna Super D Style this tournament with a mexican wrestling mask on. This mask will keep that nasty wind chill from chapping my face.

I hope it is real windy!!!!!!!!

Shabookie you better play open and beat ole lonerbone this time.

If you would of signed up for open at WACO you think you would of still shot that all out bad you know what round????

I'm still jelious considering I shot an 84? :p

Landis is playing adv masters. Looks like the big buck turned into an old goat. lol

I can insure everyone at the PIO there will be no mask. He has to ride with me!!!!!!!!

Landis is playing adv masters. Looks like the big buck turned into an old goat. lol



very funny! just remember the saying " the older the buck the harder the horn."

Landis is playing adv masters. Looks like the big buck turned into an old goat. lol



very funny! just remember the saying " the older the buck the harder the horn."



Easy with that Horn Dave or you just might have another little buck to worry about. :D"Tear Em Up Grandpaw" :eek:

Anybody plan on playing A-Z Doubles? I think team Seabolt is playing.

Anyone have info about how A-Z went? scores, etc?

6 open teams, 18 total teams.

Pepperling and Clayton won Open by 17 strokes.
Britt Browning and partner (Mike?) won ADV.

I think holding the event on V-Day and not sanctioning it hurt a bit. One day events seem to be the most popular as well, as 45 people showed up at The Vets mini on Sunday morn.