I was wondering if anyone had any information on the 2009 Bowling Green Am Championships yet? Travel plans and time off from work are much easier with advance notice.

Go to the BG Club website. All answers are there.

Peace

April 3-5 is the date.

If you have any questions contact me via PM on here, or the BG Club website, or send me an email to [email protected]

I am the Communications Officer this year, and questions, comments, and vicious remarks will need to be directed towards me. I will get back to you ASAP with any questions you have.

Thanks!!!

is there a host hotel yet?

Is there any information anywhere for this event? Can't find it on the PDGA schedule or the BG website.

I think the BG club is meeting next week and will have details then. I did find that registration may start Feb 1 (not confirmed though)

We're meeting next Tuesday to hammer out some final details, and I'll post all new information on our club forums. You'll find alot of information on there, and if you need to please contact me via PM or email [email protected]

seems kinda silly to add a whole extra day just to get home a few hours earlier. it also seems kinda strange to start a tournament in the afternoon on a friday. gotta say this is looking less likely for me.

I think three days is the right move for an event of this size. Just so everything doesn't feel as rushed as it has in years past(i've been the last 4 years). Unfortunately after last year there is no chance of me making it this year. But I do wish yall the best of luck

: ) :

Mail In Preregistration Ready!!!

$50.00 Flat Rate Fee All Division (allows everyone to get the same players package)

Include your NAME, PDGA #, and DIVISION and send it to the following address...

Chuck Ridgeway
1040 Shive Lane B-12
Bowling Green, KY
42103

any way to tell us what the value of the players pack will be, and if the payout will suck again because of it?

any way to tell us what the value of the players pack will be, and if the payout will suck again because of it?



Wow, what a statement. You are playing AMs, not Pro. If you want Pros at BG you will, evidently, wait a year. I very well might be wrong, and if I am, please let us know.

Thanks :o

Also

Peace

youre statement didnt make much sense, but if you are confused with what i said...

it is commonly agreed that payouts are not great at BG ams, no thats not why people go, but they are. and an excuse for this that is given over and over is the fact that the player packs are great. last year, they didnt seem so great. so, i wondered if that information is common knowledge. payouts for local c tiers seems better than this a-tier. not that i care that much about what i get or if i get anything, but i like to support events that are run well and treat the players well. and having all the information available is key to a well run event.

the question about payout and playerpacks is in no way a complaint, if you ask people that go year after year they will all tell you that payout is nothing special. at least, thats what they all tell me. and my experience last year backed it up. i was just wondering if there was some way to know this ahead of time so that no one is surprised.

got some answers on the bg club forum. there is alot more activity there about this event.

sorry if my liberal wordage stepped on any virtual toes. it was not my intent.

Just so I can give an opinion, the payouts were not too rewarding. What I saw last year, as opposed to the last 2 years previous that I attended, was this. There was a line to receive payouts, split among divisions. Some had to wait a bit. Some couldn't get in line for awhile simply because play lasted longer than anticipated. But some wanted to watch the final playoffs, too. And I don't blame them. It's exciting...when its not dark outside. Which was the case last year. The names of those who made "cash" spots waited their turn. A bit of confusion going on, but the staff was doing a fine job getting vouchers to the right people in a timely manner, so I recall. But the downfall, which was somewhat of a disappointment, was the voucher deal. Not that the vouchers were a rip off, or that I care who pocketed a ton of cash due to the wholesale/retail gap. But that it was pretty much a free for all. You got a certain value placed on a voucher depending on your finish, then went over to a table to trade your voucher in for prizes of your choice. Also a plan with good intentions, I'm sure. But this backfired on those who got vouchers toward the end of the line simply because it got to be slim pickins'. Most of the desired plastic was rummaged through and taken rather quickly leaving those who couldn't get in the front of the line with the "leftovers". If I got a freakin' awesome players pack, I wouldn't care if I placed AT ALL. Because more than anything, the gripes, the angry, bad attitude having golfers, the weather, the payout, the players package....I WANNA GOLF! Especially with all the folks I meet each year and build new friendships with. All the local guys (MY local guys) that travel together or meet up at the hotels. The fun we have OFF the course as well as on. Thats what its about for me, and I hear a whole lot of the same from most anyone I conversate with about the BG Am's. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Payouts are predetermined this year. If, for example you placed 20th in Advanced, then we'll have a prize designated for 20th place Advanced.

We thought the vouchers would be better last year so people could find what they wanted instead of just getting something random, but this new way will be so much easier. Plus this time you can just trade with your buddies.

Please believe us that after last year we took every criticism everyone offered, and are implementing plans that will rectify them and bring back the glory of BG Ams.

We still know we cant make everyone happy, but that's not the point. So long as a majority is having fun then we've accomplished our goal.

Larry Bledsoe will probably be in town for the event and we are def. seeking his input and advice.

We've finally finished negotiating for host hotels!!!

Microtel Inn 270-745-9922
Baymont Inn 270-843-3200
Best Western 270-782-3800
Plaza Inn 270-745-0088
Marriot 270-783-8569

**When you call mention the Bowling Green Amateur tournament**

Player check in will be Friday night at the Plaza Inn, and the Sunday Final 9 will begin at the Plaza Inn on Crosswinds Golf Course.

These are the courses per divisions...

Advanced Men/Women

Phil Moore Park
Hobson Grove
Kereiakes Park (long pads)
Franklin-Simpson (short pads)

Intermediate Men/Women and Age Protected Divisions

White Park
Lovers Lane
Basil Griffin
Chalybeate

Recreational

Preston Miller, TBA

any way to tell us what the value of the players pack will be, and if the payout will suck again because of it?



Wow, what a statement. You are playing AMs, not Pro. If you want Pros at BG you will, evidently, wait a year. I very well might be wrong, and if I am, please let us know.

Thanks :o

Also

Peace


Ron, a lot of people show up to COMPETE. Just because they aren't Open golfers yet doesn't mean they aren't attempting to use this as a stepping stone in that direction. Those people will care about things like payouts, etc. They want to be competing FOR something. Only 10-20 people wind up competing for the win in the end, so there needs to be something worth competing for down the line a little. I know I sure as hell wasn't there for the "party" or whatever last year (even if I did wind up playing like [censored]). And the guys I'm going with to caddy for this year aren't either.


-Chris.

I called on the rates and I do not have much but this might help.

Microtel $59.95
Best Western $74.00
Marriot did not know the rates until their manager was available and Both Baymont and Plaza Inn have had a busy signal for over two hours.

BG payouts suck. But the points you get are awesome. I placed 32nd last year and got enough points to quailfy for worlds. It was the only tourney I needed for the year.

I agree with you on just going there to play(party). I am going back there because my rating lets me. If only I would have started playing this game at 10 yrs old and not at 35 yrs old.

Peace

I cant get into details, but we're working on a system that allows all players a chance to receive a prize, so even if you shoot horrible for the tournament you may still end up with something. And no, these are not CTP's I'm referring too.

I'll let the masses wonder what it is we could be doing.

Sad news for all the intermediate players or other players coming in and planning on playing Lover's. THE limb on hole 4 is a victim of the ice storm. The tree is still standing but the limb that several pros(including Climo if I remember correctly) have been a victim of is officially down.

We dont need to worry about one limb at Lovers. We need to worry about Kereiakes. I swear it looks like a tornado ripped through. It's bad!

I guess that makes sense Cedars and Pines usually do worse under ice. We played Lover's, White, Preston, and I walked through Chalybeate and other than that limb at Lover's I didn't see any other damage so I guess that is a good thing. I just hated to see that limb go because to me that is the defining charecteristic on that courses signature hole.

sounds like there are a few things that need to be addressed. Please do, because other places already do understand about ice.

Peace

[censored] I had some "memorable" times in Bowling Green (and Lord only knows of the things Ive forgotten). I never made it there during the big tourney times, but that was cool bcause I got to taste the town several times! YOU GUYS ARE SO LUCKY!!! I mainly lurk on here but with this topic I have a few concerns..1. the statusee of the courses after the storms..the other is I heard a rumor from some pretty good sources (in 2006 btw) that Kereiakes might be pulled in the near future to expand the neighboring cemetary...
Hey Ron!! Long Time No See Brother!! Gimme a hollar or a Hog Call if youre ever down in Phoenix!! (I live on Vista in Scottsdale..)
Peace

Chad

The cemetary could if they wanted too, but I've never heard a rumor that they plan on it. At least not in the 3 yrs I've played.

The farmer next to Lovers Lane could as well so long as we dont hop his fence, we're good.

So what's going on with this tournament? Where's all the chatter? Is this event going to happen? 1000 Players? Wasn't it sold out this time last year? There's only 58 pre-registered!? Anyone...Bueller?

I'm just worried as we're planning on making the trip up for the 5th year in a row and running doubles at Lover's Lane and Keriakes...

I think that with the past problems (players packs,payout,late departure)I have a feeling that BG AMs popularity is fading. I'm hoping that this year it will be a huge turnaround. I am disappointed with the Rec division only playing 2 courses, 1 is still TBA, and the $50 charge. I think with the current economic state that this country is in that alot of players are not going to spend the money. Hopefully this will turn out to be a great tournament. Being in the Auto industry, I need disc golf to escape.

im sure there will always be alot in attendance. some may leave unhappy, but there are always new golfers to fill those spots. i think the main reason for low numbers at this point is the combination that last year some left with a bad taste in their mouth, the format is 3 day this year, and all the details still arent ironed out. all of these things together make people apprehensive, or at least not as excited. i bet the numbers will get big, just not as quickly as last year.

New items posted on the event: ya'll should reserve your spot now!
http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams

NEWS FLASH:
Players package to contain 5 disc, one from each
Silver Sponsor, plus other minis and goodies! A
value over $75!!!!!

Latitude 64 is releasing the Jasper Lundmark
Opto Striker
DGA will include first run Pro Line Aftershocks
Innova will include a star disc TBA (new release?)
Discraft will announce soon their product
Gateway will soon announce as well.

Check back often to see the announcements.
Register early to insure your spot.

BG City and County Parks Departments are awsome, they should have the course looking good......

I hate to see the low numbers, because being a local, I look forward to beating as many of you as possible:)

The BG Club invested $16,000+ dollars, and coutless labor hours into the courses since last May(Tourism Grant).......In addition to that HB stepped up and leased 9 baskets to the Hobson Grove Ball Golf Course (Riverview) for us to enjoy.

The 3 day tournament is the only way to accomodate 600+ players properly with the courses we have currently (in my opinion) The alternative is capping the field, and keeping it 2 days, and possibly shutting numerous players out.

I'm sure the club will change to the players needs if necessary, they are just trying something new for everybody....no big deal, it's just more fun and disc golf. BG is a great town, and worth taking an extra day off to enjoy.

I admit, we used to have the saying here in BG, that nobody gets turned away....but times and expectations of services have changed......

Bare with BG as the sport transforms, and please support the tournament. Our community is really looking forward to this great tradition. I know the club is working hard to make this an epic event!!

Thanks

Josh Dobelstein #14490
Disc Golf Shop and More LLC

im sure there will always be alot in attendance. some may leave unhappy, but there are always new golfers to fill those spots. i think the main reason for low numbers at this point is the combination that last year some left with a bad taste in their mouth, the format is 3 day this year, and all the details still arent ironed out. all of these things together make people apprehensive, or at least not as excited. i bet the numbers will get big, just not as quickly as last year.



Don't forget to include the crappy economy in any thoughts on low numbers. I my not make it for the big BG tourney but hopefully I get to KY sometime this summer. You guys have some very nice courses in BG & Lexington.

Dont forget there is also May Daze 1.5 months after Bowling green ams. that has the format and courses that most people want to play.

: ) :

im sure there will always be alot in attendance. some may leave unhappy, but there are always new golfers to fill those spots. i think the main reason for low numbers at this point is the combination that last year some left with a bad taste in their mouth, the format is 3 day this year, and all the details still arent ironed out. all of these things together make people apprehensive, or at least not as excited. i bet the numbers will get big, just not as quickly as last year.



Don't forget to include the crappy economy in any thoughts on low numbers. I my not make it for the big BG tourney but hopefully I get to KY sometime this summer. You guys have some very nice courses in BG & Lexington.



Yeah I believe the economy is the main factor for the low numbers. Sad that our country is in such terrible shape, and that it really is affecting disc golf.

im sure there will always be alot in attendance. some may leave unhappy, but there are always new golfers to fill those spots. i think the main reason for low numbers at this point is the combination that last year some left with a bad taste in their mouth, the format is 3 day this year, and all the details still arent ironed out. all of these things together make people apprehensive, or at least not as excited. i bet the numbers will get big, just not as quickly as last year.



Don't forget to include the crappy economy in any thoughts on low numbers. I my not make it for the big BG tourney but hopefully I get to KY sometime this summer. You guys have some very nice courses in BG & Lexington.



Yeah I believe the economy is the main factor for the low numbers. Sad that our country is in such terrible shape, and that it really is affecting disc golf.


Not sure if this is true as almost every other event this year has been full or close to full.
I've heard of a few C tiers with waiting lists and know of several top players who are going to miss Vegas and the Memorial because they filled up so early!!
We are expecting record numbers at our 2 C Tiers in St Louis and may fill the ST Louis Open A tier this year at 244!

I think once players start signing up this event they will wind up with a lot of players.
Not sure 900 is doable but most likely well over 500!

Well we need at least 720 to break even considering the cost of the tournament.

NEWS FLASH: (from www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams (http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams) )


Premium Players Package to
First 500 Registered.
If you want First Run disc, and
custom event stamped disc, sign up
ASAP . . . these will go fast.


Innova Announces Sponsorship
of final Round: win your group
and win an Innova Champion Disc
when you turn your score card in!

DGA Announces:
Aftershock Accuracy Contest
Free entry to tournament players,
over $1300 in prizes: includes
three DGA Mach lites baskets for
grand prize winners in Rec, Int, and
Advanced divisions.

Great Players Pack!!!!!!!
Awesome Trophies!!!!!!!!
Great facilities for Meet the Manufactures Night and Flymart!!!!!
Some of the greatest courses to play on!!!!!!!!!!
3 Days of Disc Golf!!!!!!!!

What is everyone waiting for this is going to be an awesome event?????

Sign Up, Make Your Plans and Come to BG for some great disc golf!!!!!!!!

Poor Boy Discs presents the Hobson Grove Doubles at the 2009 Bowling Green Amatuer Championships. $24 for team entry fee. Flex start for all three days (show up at any time to play). Players pack will consist of T-shirt, towel and more for each player.

100% payout, radar gun, raffles, ctp's, basket giveaway, and more!!!

Schedule:

Wednesday, April 1st - 8am to 6pm
Thursday, April 2nd - 8am to 6pm
Friday, April 3rd - 8am to 12 noon

Gateway has announced they will be providing Voo Doo soft or super soft putters custom stamped to the first 500 players registered. They will also be bringing some awsom new and old items to the Manufactures Night (Friday evening) and the Fly Mart.

See www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams (http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams) for latest offical schedule and sponsors, hotel info there as well.

And scroll down that web page for the Gateway disc logo . . . . there may be some shirts available from Gateway as well!

Also: Poor Boy Disc has announced their schedule for Hobson Grove Doubles and other fun events for the week, so even if you can not play in the BIG AM event you can join in on the activities.

Post deleted by Jax_Rhyno

Please don't jack other peoples thread. Can you imagine if everybody went around promoting their tournament in other tournaments threads.

Post deleted by Jax_Rhyno

Please don't jack other peoples thread. Can you imagine if everybody went around promoting their tournament in other tournaments threads.



Agreed. <u>That is pretty poor form.</u> I would urge for Jax to edit his post.

Robert,

I don't want to draw away from your tournament but offer those who are watching this thread the opportunity to possibly attend something different.

So with that being said... those of you who choose not to attend the BG AM's.. please consider the 2009 Jacksonville Open.






Bush League dude - Bush League

Hey... please accept my apology for posting something that has caused your displeasure.... Like I have said before.. I wish everyone the best of luck with Bowling Green... some great courses and the level of competition in the past has been awesome...

I know this thread is viewed by many golfers that do not attend... My intention isn't to draw away from your tournament but to utilize the exposure this tournament gets to give those who weren't planning on attending an opportunity to consider a smaller venue.

With all this being said...I would be glad to obilige you guys as well with a plug for the BG AM tournament on the Jax thread...

Again... I'm sorry you guys feel the way you do.

Generate your own exposure then! There are plenty of ways to draw people to your event. Posting in other people's event thread for a different tournament IS indeed the intent of drawing away from their tournament. This is not my tournament; I am just another TD that who would be VERY hot if someone pulled that one me and then claimed "my intention isn't to draw away from your tournament." Yeah it was...

It would be a different story if their tournament was full and you had asked them if it was ok to try to draw some players to your event however we both know that it is not full and they are struggling with registration at the moment.

Dude... we are a 10.5 hour drive away... I'm not drawing away from BG AM's at all...

With that being said... I will graciously remove my original post...

Again..good luck with the tournament... I wish you all the best.

You know what kills me about you guys that have complained... my posting keeps your thread at the top... which before this post..it was already on the second page... so I bid all of you ado...

Good luck with the Tournament...I wish you all the best.

Dont worry Jax, as one of the co-TD's I didnt take offense. There are many who cant make the drive to BG for various reasons. I know your intentions were well and you do want us to succeed and for that I say thank you, and I wish your tournament the best of luck as well.

Thanks! I will tell you that the one BG AM event I made was a memorable event. I will get back again soon..

Thanks again and I hope you guys fill!

Jack

As a local professional advanced amatuer:), I am getting really excited about the tournament. Sounds like the club is out to prove that BG still throws a good show, no matter what obstacles they have to overcome.

It's now time for everybody to pull together and make the worlds largest disc golf tournament tradition continue!!

I know the entertainment that is planned will be epic!! Rudy has an ear for good tunes, and good times.....the party will be over the top!!

The courses will be ready...............come check out the $10,000+ of improvements since last year, the club got a big grant this past summer ($16,000)

The awards, players packages, and prizes just keep coming in from sponsors.....it sounds like everything is coming together. Let's get some players signed up.....

and JMO.....you might as well play......just remember, if you don't get top 4, you will be an epic failure........pressure baby!! I expect 3 thousand rated rounds from our top local DGSM Green Team member.

I hope Chuck gets so many players signing up, he can't keep up with it over the next 2 weeks....since he is only updating the official registration list on Fridays, maybe he can post how many come in each day on this forum, so we can get fired up.

It's the BG Ams with no one finishing in the dark this year folks....where ya at??!!

C'mon, nobody really works on Fridays anyway:)

I hope everybody has a change of heart, and try's to make it. I love having 700+ disc golfers in my home town for a weekend, it's really something special, always has been.....always will, no matter what.

Peace,

Josh Dobelstein
Disc Golf Shop and More LLC
www.discgolfshopandmore.com (http://www.discgolfshopandmore.com)

Come on guys lets get those registrations in! Where else are you going to get 5 discs for your players package for only $50???

And where else are you going to get live musical entertainment throughout the event???

This is going to be the BEST disc golf event you will play!!! The 2009 BG Ams is going to be EPIC in its AWESOMENESS!!!

check out the final nine course pics right across the street from the host hotel....now I'm getting excited!!

http://www.bgky.org/golf/photos.php

I got to go to the planning meeting and I have to say I am glad I did. At first I like many of you were kind of looking forward to the event but it wasn't like I couldn't wait for it to get here. After attending the meeting last night I have to say the TD Rudy has got the idea of what people want, I am not going to start quoting numbers as that isn't my place and I am sure I will get them wrong. But the party on Thursday at WahBah's will be worth the trip especially thanks to the title sponsor. I know some people complain about value but there are going to be 5 numbered baskets given away to the five biggest divisions. And contrary to rumors 100% and I repeat 100% of the money from the ams will be going back to the ams in the form of players pack, entertainment, or payout. The only money going to pros is the money you spend buying discs from the club and that is it! 100% of what you spend plus sponsorship money for the ams will go back to you in one form or another. This will be my third BG Ams but the players pack looks better than ever especially if you are 1 of the first 500 registered.

Also another big complaint has been how well it is run I can't promise a flawless event as it is run by volunteers but I can promise that a lot of planning (weekly) has went into making sure it will go smoother. Including a more streamlined scoring plan, pre-determined payouts, and the 3-day will make it easier to plan from one round to the next especially with no pool shuflle on Saturday. I may be wrong but I truly do believe if you miss this one you really will be sorry.

I as well went to the planning meeting and keep getting impressed at what all Rudy and the guys are doing to make this tourney an awesome one. Every player that misses this tourney is going to miss out on alot. Come on sign up and join us for an EPIC and I do mean EPIC event.

25 Days left come on sign up make your plans come join us in BG for some great Disc Golf. Need more Recreational players I need more competition. No offense to all who are signed up I do have my work cut out for me. But would like to have the chance to beat 180 players.

I got to go to the planning meeting and I have to say I am glad I did. At first I like many of you were kind of looking forward to the event but it wasn't like I couldn't wait for it to get here. After attending the meeting last night I have to say the TD Rudy has got the idea of what people want, I am not going to start quoting numbers as that isn't my place and I am sure I will get them wrong. But the party on Thursday at WahBah's will be worth the trip especially thanks to the title sponsor. I know some people complain about value but there are going to be 5 numbered baskets given away to the five biggest divisions. And contrary to rumors 100% and I repeat 100% of the money from the ams will be going back to the ams in the form of players pack, entertainment, or payout. The only money going to pros is the money you spend buying discs from the club and that is it! 100% of what you spend plus sponsorship money for the ams will go back to you in one form or another. This will be my third BG Ams but the players pack looks better than ever especially if you are 1 of the first 500 registered.

Also another big complaint has been how well it is run I can't promise a flawless event as it is run by volunteers but I can promise that a lot of planning (weekly) has went into making sure it will go smoother. Including a more streamlined scoring plan, pre-determined payouts, and the 3-day will make it easier to plan from one round to the next especially with no pool shuflle on Saturday. I may be wrong but I truly do believe if you miss this one you really will be sorry.



100% WOW that is AWESOME!!!!! So how is it a C tier event on the Florida Tour in 2008 was able to provide a total Payout for AMS of 255% and still have $3600 Added cash to the Pro event???

Just curious.....

Why do you feel the need to worry about the BG Ams when obviously you are not coming.

I am not going to come on here and argue about whose tournament is better because it doesn't do either of our tournaments any good at all. I will come on here and tell all the fun stuff the club has planned that has been made official. I didn't go onto your thread and post it so what does it matter. I am sorry your tournament falls on the same weekend as ours and I hope both are successes and most importantly I hope everybody at both have a great time regardless of who goes where and I am sure that if what you say about yours happens then the first weekend in April will be a great weekend for disc golf.

I am not going to get into the exact numbers because I am not an official with the club and it isn't my place to say X-amount of dollars will go here and don't want the club suffering for a mistake I made. I do know that Budweiser is donating money for food and refreshments on Thursday at Wah Bahs. I do know that there will be a lot of live entertainment. I do know that the players pack will have AT LEAST 5 discs including first runs. I do know that the winner of each card will receive a disc even if it is the last place card in Recreational. I do know the winner of each of the five largest divisions will receive a basket even if the fifth largest division only has 20 people in it. I do know that a lot of the problems from last year have been fixed like no going outside to see where you will play because now you will know where each round will be played when you see which pool you will be in because there will be NO POOL SHUFFLES. I also know with the fourth round starting early Sunday and the final 9 shortly after and a predetermined payout that you will be on the road before dark on Sunday.

If you want to see what more fun stuff will be happening that weekend go to www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams (http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams) . If you want to know the actual numbers or more information go to www.bgdgclub.com (http://www.bgdgclub.com) and ask Rudy he is usually very good at getting back to you.

When I reread your post I think we had a misunderstanding. I don't know what the payout % will be because we don't know the numbers I am saying that every dime you spend and all the sponsorship money will be going back to you. There was a post where someone said some of the money would be going to the pro event and I wanted to make sure everyone knew that all your money will be going back to you. Because players pack counts as payout if we didn't give out 1 disc to winners our payout % would be 150% so as you can imagine with 5 high quality baskets and at least 1 disc per card plus the standard payout we should easily go over 250% and that doesn't even include the entertainment.

That's what I'm talking about Robert!!!!! See when those who have been around tournaments at all see 100% which includes parties, players pack and payout, that isn't much... but now that you are hitting over 100%... now you are talking! Nicely done!!!

I really do wish you guys well this year! If our tournament wasn't the same weekend I would be there!!! I enjoy the courses and the competition BG AM's have to offer...

Anyone who has ever played that event knows it's all about the competition!!!!!!!!

Good luck! I hope you guys hit your goals!

He really is not trying to get people to not go to your event. AGAIN

24 More Days til one of the greatest Am tourneys of the year. You will not want to miss this one.

BG got off to a slow start this year but it appears to be heading in the right direction. The players pack and prizes top the last 3 that I've been too. I hope that they can get to at least 500 players so sign up. The positives have always outweighed the negatives and this year already has way more positives.

See ya guys soon.

100% WOW that is AWESOME!!!!! So how is it a C tier event on the Florida Tour in 2008 was able to provide a total Payout for AMS of 255% and still have $3600 Added cash to the Pro event???

I think you are referring to the Jacksonville Open.......too bad you all barely get 100 players at any of your tournaments.....so obviously, players don't think it's that great of tour. We all know you can manipulate numbers all you want, but the players speak with attendance.......

Sounds like you are turning more people off, and your numbers will be even lower if you keep it up......you posting on this thread is really making you look bad, no matter how you reply....everybody knows what your doing.

BG course are looking good, and so is my game!!

Bring it on!!

Josh's game is looking great he beat me by 3 strokes Thursday. On second thought you may need to seek an exemption and step down to intermediate or maybe even rec.

for those wth travel issues, check out the promotion that enterprise is runnng - 10 bucks a day fri to mon

http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/dee...ekend%20special (http://www.enterprise.com/car_rental/deeplinkmap.do?bid=002&amp;cust=ESRF9R2&amp;arc=ESRF9R2&amp;cn ty=US&amp;language=en&amp;cm_mmc=rc-_-retail-_-7231%20biweekly%20extras%202009-03-10-_-esrf9r2%20usen%20zone3_offer_body%20weekend%20spec ial)

100% WOW that is AWESOME!!!!! So how is it a C tier event on the Florida Tour in 2008 was able to provide a total Payout for AMS of 255% and still have $3600 Added cash to the Pro event???

I think you are referring to the Jacksonville Open.......too bad you all barely get 100 players at any of your tournaments.....so obviously, players don't think it's that great of tour. We all know you can manipulate numbers all you want, but the players speak with attendance.......

Sounds like you are turning more people off, and your numbers will be even lower if you keep it up......you posting on this thread is really making you look bad, no matter how you reply....everybody knows what your doing.

BG course are looking good, and so is my game!!

Bring it on!!



Interesting... well Jacksonville isn't as fortunate as BG is.. we only have one course..so filling at 120 golfers for the past three years with 30 on the wait list each year is pretty darn good in my book... as for how do we do it.. .the Tournament committe busts their ***** getting sponsors.. See there is no reason for us to take from the AMs when those that are assisting with putting on the tournament beat the streets and get local businesses to come off some cash.

I would welcome you to join us in Jacksonville when the tournament doesn't conflict with BG.

So...with that being said.. .good luck this year at BG.. I wish you well.

Josh's game is looking great he beat me by 3 strokes Thursday. On second thought you may need to seek an exemption and step down to intermediate or maybe even rec.



hahaha, nice one robert......don't worry, I'll be ready....I think my 08 tour record speaks for itself........you know how I roll....all fun, with a few hot rounds every once in a while:)

your game seems to be getting better though.....good luck, keep the title in BG!!

Everyone that is not signed up you need too. You will miss out on some great disc golf and dont forget the players parties. The club continues to add things for the weekend so there will penty of things to do and enjoy.

I've got a question;
I just paid my entry but now it looks like I might not be able to play due to work and it being the first weekend of Keenland. Will I be able to get my money back if I can't play?

Send me an email by today for a full refund. If its tomorrow then only 1/2.

Send me an email by today for a full refund. If its tomorrow then only 1/2.



Hmm...Not sure this is within the PDGA guidelines... I'm thinking he has until the 21st for a full refund minus postage and handling ...not to exceed 10%... kind of what it says in the competition manual..

That is unless there is some exception for this tournament.

1.3. Withdraws and Refunds
A. A player may officially withdraw only by contacting the
Tournament Director.
B. Players must email or phone their withdrawals to the
Tournament Director only at the contact information
posted.
C. Discussions with persons other than the Tournament
Director, including other tournament staff, shall not be
considered official.
D. No refunds will be issued after the 7th day prior to the
start of the event, but the player shall be sent a player�s
package if one was provided to event competitors.
E. Withdrawals made before the 7th day prior to the start of
the event shall receive a 50% refund.
F. Withdrawals made 14 days prior to the start of the event
shall be refunded 100 %, less postage and handling,
which shall not exceed 10% of the entry fee.
G. These criteria may be relaxed at the discretion of the
Tournament Director.

which can be found in: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/08CompetitionManual.pdf

G. These criteria may be relaxed at the discretion of the
Tournament Director.



kinda negates everything before it. so shut up.

: ) :

Relaxed yes... but taking away days isn't relaxing now is it???

In this situation the PDGA doesn't allow for you to stiffen the penalties for withdrawing.

So...with that being said... no need for me to shut up...now is there???

Get lost Jax. You're starting to become annoying.

LOL... good one!

So since I can't get 100% back now (I saw your response finally today :( ) can I at least still get my players pack mailed to me in a timely manner?

Drew according to the PDGA Competition Manual you are still entitled to a 100% refund. i would fore go this message board and call or e-mail the Tournament Director directly. i am sure he will be more than willing to do what is required and fair.

Well to be fair they did, after I investigated it, post it up on their web site.

"Full refunds available until March 15th if needed, then 50% refund."

I just missed it because, simply why go all the way to their website when I already know about the tournament and can just go to the PDGA sign up site to register. Oh well whatever. I'll get in touch with the TD when I get a chance and hopefully something good will come of all of this.

Drew,
I don't see how any information a club decides to post on their web site has any relevance to what the PDGA stipulates for their sanctioned events. as My Good freind PB&amp;J pointed out that the PDGA allows lenaincy to relax but i do not see anywhere it allows you to be more strict than what the PDGA guidelines indicate. if the TD is not willing to work with you (and i am really hoping he can) then i would go straight to the sanctioning body. Good luck man.

This refund thing is out of control.

I post the PDGA refund policy on every flyer as most do. However, section G allows me to basically do what I want. WHY DO TD'S NOT READ SECTION G???

If someone is thougtfull enough to call me 3 days before the event to say they can't come, I'm going to reward / thank them and give them a full refund. I just don't want someone calling me the night before or the day of saying they ain't coming.

This is what I don't get about TD's and refunds....

The asst TD is in this VERY THREAD asking why people aren't signing up for the tournament. Then he the says people will only get a half refund 2 weeks before the event...hmmm.....

I've learned that if I'm open and understanding about refunds as a TD more people are likely to pre-register early - even if they are not sure if they can come - and then that makes my job as TD easier and I don't have to post every three days asking why people aren't registering.

Please TD's, read section G and use some common sense. If every TD ignored section G, I wouldn't pre-register more than a week or so in advance for more tournaments.

Tivvle,
i aggree totally with what you are saying about pre reging. however i would have to disaggree totally with you and PB &amp;J (let everyone know myself, MTL and PB&amp;J are all from North Carolina and good freinds) on your interpretation of Section G

Section G does not allow TD's to do what they want what so ever. Section G clearly states it gives TD's the right to RELAX the qualifications.
the word RELAX means - to make less tense, rigid, or firm. it does not give any TD the right to make the refund requirements more rigid or stringent only to make them better than the minimum which is 14 days. period.

Plain and simple if Drew Pac wants a refund he is gaurenteed one by the PDGA sanctioing aggreement as long as he withdraws before this Friday. I don't see how this can be discussed it seem cut and dry to me.

I hear ya Dave, and you are totally correct.

It's just when people get hurt or something like that and then only get half a refund and the TD quotes the rule book ignoring section G that I find re-donk-ulous.

Basically the rules are layed out like they are to basically CYA for the PDGA and the TD. They put section G in there for all the "what ifs" that can pop up.

by the way, I sent ya an email today - did you get it?

by the way, I sent ya an email today - did you get it?


yes i did. it is still under review :D

by the way, I sent ya an email today - did you get it?


yes i did. it is still under review :D



No section G in the rules about the topic I emailed you about.

AKA you have no choice. No relaxation. Nothing.

Do it.

:D

this is true. i am searching for a loop hole

BG website has been suspended. Not a good thing to happen when the tourney is 2 weeks away. JD-any idea when it will be running again?

I thought our Treasurer had paid the host server already. I remember him mentioning he was going to about a month ago, but apparently this did not happen. I have emailed him and asked that he would renew for us so hopefully within the next day or two.

JD I emailed you my refund request as I wasn't sure if to send it to you or Rudy (whom I couldn't find his email). Let me know if you need any further info from me please.

Website is back up. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Also, you guys are right about the refund policy. We sincerely apologize if that upset anyone, and everyone who needs a refund will receive 100%.

OK kids, here's the Sun King Disc Sports doubles at Bowling Green info:

Keriakes/Lovers Lane

Rolling Tee Time

Wed 4/1 - 10am-6pm
Thur 4/2 - 10am-6pm
Fri 4/3 - 8am-12pm

$24 Per Team - Players Receive Choice of Pro Destroyer, Pro Wraith, KC Roc, DX San Marino Roc or assorted Gateway Clear Evolution models plus a sticker, towel and mini!

100%+ Payout, Basket Giveway, CTP's

REGISTER ONLINE HERE (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1449)

Can you dig it?!

NEWS FLASH

Recreational Players to get to
play 4 courses!
Miller, Hobson, Lovers, White

All Women and Juniors will also
be in these pools

Age Protected Courses
Changed:
Chalybeate Springs, Kereiakes,
Griffin, and Phil Moore

NEWS FLASH:
Sponsored by:
Nat's Outdoor Sports and
WUHU-107.1 FM Radio
NAT�S FUN FLY
SATURDAY
April 4th

Entry Fee: $50, full players
package and party
privileges

Register Friday evening or
at Nat�s Prior to April 3rd

Final registration at Miller
Park 8 - 9am

Second Round at
Kereiakes Park

All players in one division;
Field limited to 90 players

No PDGA membership required

Mini pole hole trophy for champ (presented Saturday night)

Want to change divisions (due to the additional courses available for recreational)?
e-mail any division change request to Chuck: [email protected]

Sounds like this is going to be one of the Best BG Am events since I've been playing... sorry I'm gonna miss this one!

Good luck to all the golfers and to the TD's!

I am so excited, this tournament can't come soon enough.

Is there a prize for the long drive contest? We have a kid coming down with us that should have a very good chance to win it.

Update on the players package...

CUSTOM STAMPED MINT GREEN INNOVA ECHO STAR GROOVE. First 500 registered get one.

2 weeks to go and 1 week of registration. You better hurry and register. You know you want to play with at least 400 other disc golfers.

NEWS FLASH:

INNOVA to custom stamp CHAMPION GLOW DISTROYER as the disc to be awarded to the winner of each card in the last round.

NEWS FLASH:

INNOVA to custom stamp CHAMPION GLOW DISTROYER as the disc to be awarded to the winner of each card in the last round.

Signup this week at: http://www.pdgasignup.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&amp;PROD=1233244147
Sign-up accepted on line through Sunday (March 29th)


Keep up with all of the latest schedule at http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams

Also, we have ordered a keg of our sponsors beverage for for your enjoyment at the final 9, so no dealing with the local park police, as this will be legel for the spectators!

We will also provide beverages for check in at the Friday night activities, as well as a cash bar if you are not into Bud Light Lime or Bud Light. Thank you JB Distributing for coming through as a Presenting Sponsor!!!

Now tell me this isn't sounding more fun all the time. I may actually watch the final 9 for the first time.

Anyone with a hotel room with an extra bed or floorspace that wants to save some money should get ahold of me asap. It would be for Fri &amp; Sat nights only.

423 registered only 77 more premium players pack so if you want a premium you had better hurry.

E-Bagger's getting warmed up...

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8771&amp;year=2009&amp;include_ratings=1#A dvanced

E-Bagger's getting warmed up...

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8771&amp;year=2009&amp;include_ratings=1#A dvanced



I wonder how many people didnt sign up because a 1000 rated player was registered to play advanced..... Thats sad.

I'm not coming down this year, but I am still following the event. The first thing did the other day was look to see if he was playing. Not only is he playing but he the highest rated Am in the world, ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Sorry, but that is funny to me. I remember back when I first started playing my buddies and I used to joke about being a 1000 rated amateur, and now there actually is one.

I don't care either way, it's his decision according to the rules, I just wish I was that good so I could play pro. I sure as heck wouldn't be sticking around playing in the minors if I was good enough for the pros.

Could you imagine being 1000 rated and not winning, ha ha haha ha, "Oh the tragedy!"

Good luck all!

NEWS FLASH:
Innova Presents TEN to ZEN Putting Contest
Putting Competition Free to all BG Am participants
Qualifying


Thursday 4/2 10am-5pm at Phil Moore Park
Thursday night 7pm-9pm at Wah Bah�s
Friday 4/3 10am-1pm at Phil Moore Park

Final Four
Friday 4/3 7pm at Holiday Inn Convention Center

Grand Prize
20 Innova discs of your choice with your very own Signature stamp!

2nd Place Discatcher Sport
3rd Place Discatcher Traveler
4th Place Discatcher Mini Sport

Hey this just keeps on getting better and better. Everyone not signed up you need to hurry time is running out. You don't want to miss out on this one.

I just got back from the BGDG meeting and first off registration has been extended until Sunday but it has to end then so the PDGA can place everybody where they belong. Here are the spots that are still available as of 7:00 or 8:00 tonight.
Advanced pools: 47
Intermediate pools: 31
Recreational/Junior 72
Age protected 38

Now to all of the cool stuff if I can fit it all on one page, the TD Rudy said his goal was to take everything he enjoyed from his tournaments and put it in the BG Ams. Full sized numbered Trophy Baskets for the five biggest divisions plus some other baskets for assorted putting competetions and to me the coolest prize of all YOUR OWN SIGNATURE DISC. How fun would it be when someone asked what you are going to throw to say I think I am going to throw my ___Your name here_ Destroyer or whatever disc you throw the most. You will have 20 of em if you win the putting competition. So to you that think you are the best putter in the world this is an awesome opportunity. Plus the first 500 get a cool stamped Star ECO groove and the winner of every card in every division will get a limited edition custom stamped Glow Destroyer. Plus free beer at least a couple of times throughout the weekend but I was seriously overwhelmed and can't remember all of the great plans for the weekend. I understand all of the reasons for not playing like the economy, format, other tourneys, bad experiences in the past, or whatever else is keeping you from coming. But I can tell you that unless you come looking for a reason to be mad you will more than likely have the best tournament you have ever had.

NEWS FLASH!!!

Latitude 64 will be sponsoring the first round with the Striker giveaway. Win your card, get another Striker!

Oh for those of you who wanna see, here is some highlights from the 2008 finals.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3FjudF4fVk

I plan on doing it this year too, so i'll be needing some good shots from the adv!

Can't wait, this'll be my 5th straight BG Ams

signed up 2 days ago on pdga registration . still looking for my name

List should be updated by tomorrow. My name still needs to get on there as well, but we have a few people still doing last minute registration so its best to just put them all in at the same time.

Registration ends today. Get signed up if you are playing.

What is the local weather forecast looking like? It changes everyday on accuweather.com.

Just a reminder; Bowling Green is in a dry county on Sundays. The only place that you can get beer on Sundays is in a bar or restaurant so make sure you stock up on Saturday night.

Are we going to try and do the 2 dollar bill thing again this year? I thought it was pretty cool to be recognized as a disc golfer every time we spent one last year.

Last time I checked Sunny and warm Friday and Saturday, and rainy Sunday.

Hey all!

We're getting ready to head out to BG later today...we've had quite a few phone calls about our doubles events...for more information please visit our Bowling Green Doubles Online Registration (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1449)...See you in BG!

Ok, everybody bring 2 dollar bills if you can and try to spend one in each place you make a purchase. If you go to your bank before you take off from home they should have them. Make sure you tell the good people of Bowling Green that you are a disc golfer and you are happy that they support us. It was awesome last year, by the time we left everyone there knew you were in town for the tournament when you spent one.

Is the Discraft Test Drive going to be there this year?

Discraft is not doing the test drive this year.

And although dry, we will provide a keg of our sponsors brew for the final 9 and awards. Bring a big cup for the 9 holes on the public golf course!

And locally, we have lots of publicity with radio ads running for the event, Rudy has done a couple of radio sport talk shows, and a TV news report.

Go to www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams (http://www.bluegrassdiscgolf.org/BG-Ams) for the latest schedule and news flashes.

I may of missed it, But is there gonna be a Distance/Driving contest?

The last time I went to BG, we played the "traditional" courses; White, Lover's, Hobson, Keraikes. I don't know theses new ones, but I hope to by tee-off. "Franklin" is in the course directory as "Franklin-Simpson DGC" in Franklin, KY, right? Wanna make sure I'm practicing the right one.
BTW, I found it after clicking the link but you might want to put the address for Wha-Bah on the flyer.
See you all in a few.

One of the guys riding with us is in Pool C and the rest of us are in Pool D. Is There anyone staying at the host hotel in Pool C that has room for a extra person? He would certainly make it right with you.

I have the opposite problem, I'm in Pool C and the guy whose riding with me is in pool D.... We're most likely gonna stay at the Best Value Inn, which i think is near the host hotel..

Man does work suck today.........

Why is there a 937 rated player in Intermediate?

Why is there a 937 rated player in Intermediate?



He has been granted a waiver by Gentry.

Why is there a 937 rated player in Intermediate?



He has been granted a waiver by Gentry.


Wow, I wonder if i can get a waiver to bag in Rec? or stay in INT and compete with advanced players :P

Gateway "Voodoo" approved on 3/31/2009
Gateway Voodoo

The new "Voodoo" putter by Gateway Disc Sports was approved by the PDGA for use in sanctioned events on March 31, 2009.

PDGA Approved Discs &amp; Targets: http://www.pdga.com/tech-standards

I don't mean to be a problem. My first tournament was rated very high (easy course). If you check the stats for Buckhorn and Mookies Cup, you will see that my ratings plummeted, but those weren't added on the ratings update. When they are added, I'm as INT as everyone else.

I just started trying tournaments this year, I really hope you don't think I'm trying purposefully to stay in Intermediate just to win.

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Trey

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Trey



As long as you don't actually win :D

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Trey



As long as you don't actually win :D



Haha Exactly!

BAGGER

Lol!

Well I'm going to try really hard to do well, but really I'm just happy that my friends and I are going to get to travel for a disc golf tournament no matter how we all do. I'm already losing sleep over it!

Trey is a solid player, that has learned fast and has only been playin since 2008. His first rated rounds were at Kentwood in Raleigh a notoriously easy course. He shot well there and won, got rated high for his first rating/win. When I first played Kentwood in 2007 I shot well enough to win intermediate and am only rated 906 currently. No need to move up yet, but if he plays well at his first BG, then is see him playing advanced in the near future.

Good Luck Trey, you know NC is pulling for you!

Thanks Tyson!

I want my bag tag back!

You should look at being called a BAGGER as a complement. Nothing more, it means you scare the masses and you have not even shown your face yet.

Good Work

Thanks Tyson!

I want my bag tag back!



Good luck with that as well! :eek:

No worries Trey - I think most everyone understands why you're doing what you're doing. Good luck!

I think people really need to worry more about "sandbagging" by people who are unrated and playing in their first sanctioned tournament. There's just no easy way for most new tournament players to determine what division they should play in. Some examples -

I'd only been playing for 6 months a couple years ago and entered my first tournament as a Rec player. I shot my personal best in the first round and was 3 shots ahead of the rest of the Rec field and would have been tied for the lead in Intermediate. I heard a lot of "bagger" talk after that round. I then proceeded to implode and lost by 3 strokes to someone else who was playing his first tournament and most definitely didn't belong in Rec.

Last year at Bowling Green, I played with a guy in the first round who was playing in his first tournament - he was so confused that he showed up to the wrong course for round one and the TD has to change his pool to help him out. He shot one stroke better than me in that round, shot hot round in round two and never looked back. He ended up finishing 16th in Intermediate, beating 180 other players.

Funny story - in that same group last year at BG AMs, we were paired with the guy who won Intermediate. He shot -10 at Basil Griffin, which is a 1033 rated round according to the PDGA results. He was rated 919 going into that round, but everyone was calling him a bagger, even though is official rating placed him in Intermediate.

Anyhow...I digress. Sorry for the thread drift. :)

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Trey



As long as you don't actually win :D



Hope this is in fun., as in joking.

My Son and I play with Team UNC-G several times a week. Trey has come a long way in a short time. I think he can win this thing. but for now he belongs in int. NC will make him move up when it's time.

Good Shooting to all attending.
and
play nice. :D

The last time I went to BG, we played the "traditional" courses; White, Lover's, Hobson, Keraikes. I don't know theses new ones, but I hope to by tee-off. "Franklin" is in the course directory as "Franklin-Simpson DGC" in Franklin, KY, right? Wanna make sure I'm practicing the right one.
BTW, I found it after clicking the link but you might want to put the address for Wha-Bah on the flyer.
See you all in a few.



Anyone? Bueller?

Yes Franklin and Franklin Simpson are the same place. If you are wanting physical addresses go to www.bgdgclub.com (http://www.bgdgclub.com) and go to the discussion board there are a lot on the BG Ams thread.

Yes Franklin and Franklin Simpson are the same place. If you are wanting physical addresses go to www.bgdgclub.com (http://www.bgdgclub.com) and go to the discussion board there are a lot on the BG Ams thread.



I complied a list of them all for my use so here it is:

Lovers Lane
385 Lovers Lane,
Bowling Green, KY

Hobson Grove
1200 W. Main Street,
Bowling Green, KY

Preston Miller
2303 Tomblinson Way,
Bowling Green, KY

Kereiakes Park
1220 Fairview Avenue,
Bowling Green, KY

Basil Griffin
2055 Three Springs Rd,
Bowling Green, KY

Ephram White
6487 Louisville Rd
Bowling Green, KY

Franklin Simpson
Filter Plant Rd,
Franklin, KY

Phil Moore
7101 Scottsville Road
Bowling Green, KY

South Edmonson Elementary
1050 Chalybeate School Rd
Smiths Grove, KY 42171

Wah Bha
2361 Russellville Road
Bowling Green, KY

Convention Center (Friday and Sunday activities):
1021 Wilkinson Trace
Bowling Green, KY

Knights of Columbus Hall (Sat. Flymart):
911 Sercy Way
Bowling Green, KY

Anyone have a link to the course's pics? I know there was a site I looked at last year that had some decent pics that I could look at it to get an idea of what to expect, but now I can't find it anywhere and want to see what's in store before I get there as I will be playing some new courses this year and likely wont have time to practice them all before the tourney round.
Thanks.

Go PDGA Radio!!

We are coming from western Illinois via Champagne then Indianapolis and south to Bowling Green. Is there any major construction that we should know about?

NEWS FLASH:

iNNOVA PRESENTS THE 2009 BG LONG DRIVE CONTEST:

Free for BG Amateur Championship Competitors -
Unlimited Throws Phil Moore Park
Thursday 10 - 5 Friday 10 - 1

Winner receives 10 discs of choice and a Discatcher Traveler.

Attn: TD


I called JD and got an e-mail address to send a message to say that I was not able to make it because of injury. I did that and got confirmation, but I'm still in Pool A.

I wanted to make sure you guys weren't expecting me.

Thanks,
Willie Waite
#24652

Attn: TD


I called JD and got an e-mail address to send a message to say that I was not able to make it because of injury. I did that and got confirmation, but I'm still in Pool A.

I wanted to make sure you guys weren't expecting me.

Thanks,
Willie Waite
#24652



I'll pass the message along at Check In tonight.

The first night was great. Great band, great food, great people, and great $4 pitcher of beer.

Today: Cloudy through mid morning, then gradual clearing, with a high near 58. West wind between 14 and 16 mph, with gusts as high as 28 mph.

Nothing new :P

Leaving in about 45 mins!

Ben Calloway will win the distance competition.

Is there really a 1004 rated player playing this event? How is this possible? Really? WTF?

Is there really a 1004 rated player playing this event? How is this possible? Really? WTF?



Not to mention that the bagger has won BG about 1/2 dozen times.

his rating is based upon two tournys in this last update he went up 25 points and has a long history of above 940.last year at bowling green he was second in the advanced division.

I'd say the dude should try his hand in the OPEN division

Ben is over throwing right now. It is hole #2 at Phil Moore Park. There is about a 20mph tail wind right now.

go B-rad and 2J!!! metro detroit represent

[censored] YEA! B-RAD, 2J pullin for ya brahs. Get sick withit, make the finals.

This guy is playing???? Marc Estenfelder. Dude...time to move on or move out of your parents basement.

B-Rad, 2J, Jimmy OhYEAH? Bates, TSAD, and Schulte all within 3 strokes of or in lead... HELL YES.

As for Estenfelder... his rating is based on two tournaments. And Kozak: dude is married with kids, that's just a lame comment. By the way: He's preregistered for Open at the KY State Singles Championship in a week.

Is there really a 1004 rated player playing this event? How is this possible? Really? WTF?



Not to mention that the bagger has won BG about 1/2 dozen times.


Since when is ONE TIME equal to half of a dozen? You really need to work on your concept of what a "dozen" is ;)

Meh, even at Griffin, hopefully can get something done at chalybeate and uh.. white
Oh, and its cold right now.

and Nice Players Pack

Anyone else notice the top 6 in Recreational had 912 + rounds including two 951 rounds Friday. Are these local guys or is the course they played not really challenging because I noticed all are rated under 900 including two players in the 830's.

Jimmy OhYEAH?! Bates in first place two rounds in! OhYEAH? OhYeah.

Nice job getting the scores up so quick, now to head out to white..

Nice job getting the scores up so quick, now to head out to white..


Gotta say its probably a lot easier with only 2/3 the players ;) Hope things run smooth as a result and the number climb for them again next year. But it definitely does prove one thing wrong: general attitude seemed to be that the BG guys could do anything they want and fill. Guess not.

Still 4 MI guys in striking distance of the final 9 and the win! Go get'em Mitch, 2J, Jimmy, and Taylor (close enough to being an MI guy!).

I will say so far it's been a great tournament, No messups so far, i just hope we can get the rounds in tommorow before the storms come

Through 3 rounds
In Pool A (adv) there are 31 rounds rated 990 or above with 16 rounds rated at 1000 +

In Pool B (adv) there are 3 rounds rated 990 or above with 0 rounds rated 1000+

Were players randomly selected for pool?

I'm pretty sure the pools for each division were seeded because there's no chance for a shuffle with the format.

25% of the 1000+ rounds from the dirty glove. MI State shocking the world and now the metro Detroit crew shockin' BG Ams.

GO BLAINE!!! Up 6 w/ 3 holes to go (love live scoring!)

update... Blaine wins! Congrats!!!

anyone know what happened to ernie small in the final 9 for grandmasters?

Congrats to the kid from SC. Sucks that the MI boys didn't jump up there, but proud of them anyway... 7 through 11 or something like that.

Wanna say great shooting to Andrew Patton!!!

He's a Highpoint, NC local who moved to 'bama for college. I'm sorry things didn't go your way in the final 9 but you played great and represented NC really well. Always watching you man!

Trey

Blaine "the hurricane" Kinkel! Am Worlds is next, with a few small victories along the way.

Super Champ!

way to go jeff shattuck- gm champ!

Great tournament once again, look foreward to making it my 6th annual next year

Maybe I'll play better too

and congrats to Kevin Peterson from North Alabama, your adv master champ!

WTG Blaine-O!!!!!!! CHUCKTOWN - The other CDGC!

A winning Moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_V5F969634&amp;fmt=18

Congrats Blaine,
Thanks for coming to Bowling Green and putting on a great win with style. I hope you enjoy the Disc Golf Shop and More Green Team shirt.
A special thanks to Jenna Smith and David Logan for all your hard work! Also great job to all the volunteers!!
Also the sponsors were great this weekend!!


Come back and join us for May Daze!

I want to send a special invitation to all am women players to come to May Daze and play with me! We need to show Bowling Green that women play also!!!!!!!!!!!!

For information about the tourney go to www.discgolfshopandmore.com (http://www.discgolfshopandmore.com)

Sheila
#37185

Congrats to Roswell, GA's own Jason Tokio for his 1st place Intermediate finish, and to the good play of the other ATL area golfers!

quote]
I want to send a special invitation to all am women players to come to May Daze and play with me! We need to show Bowling Green that women play also!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheila
#37185

[/QUOTE]

Sheila,
I haven't met you so I apologize in advance if I offend. But let me be clear: The BG Am Champs has developed a reputation (at least in Alabama, Tennessee, and Mississippi) as being one of the worst events for women in the southeast. Think about it. There were 150 ADV men and 2 ADV women. Kendra had never been to BG before and I drug Marla with me against her will. How does that happen?

Multiple incedents in previous years of percieved descrimination against the women's field have finally reached the breaking point. And they continued this year. Why didn't any of the women's divisions get to play in the final 9? Why were the women put in a division where there were only 2 ratings propagators so that none of them will get round ratings? Why wasn't the pool TD informed that there wouldn't be final 9's for them so that they had to drive back to tournament central to find out?

There are other minor slights that are probably sponsor related issues such as there were no women's only or coed doubles divisions at the Thursday and Friday doubles or the long drive contest did not include a women's only division.

Taken by themselves this year alone would rate as unfortunate but not really big issues. Add that with some of the previous issues such as changing the courses the women would play on the day of the event and dropping the ADV women from a previously advertised final 9 2 years ago. It was SO bad that last year when the PDGA sent Addie and Karolyn to BG, most of the women thought it was to babysit the club so they didn't take advantage of the female divisions.

I'll leave you with this: It was advertised that all of the "major divisions" would be getting baskets. Not the biggest, but the "major" ones. Who got the baskets? The ADV Women's winner got a minibasket.

From personal experience as a TD, I've always found the women to be easier to work with than the men. All it takes is treating them with respect and not being demeaning while also respecting that their games are different from the men's. Not better or worse, just different. If I do a final 9 for the men, I do it for the women. I don't shorten the course or put them in a pool with the worst players in the men's divisions. I don't have them "babysit" the juniors. We try to have appropriately sized t-shirts and discs weights for female players and if we have CTP's we put them on holes reachable by everyone or give the ladies their own CTP's. It's that simple to keep them happy.

My wife has only once come back from Bowling Green happy about how things went. I doubt she'll ever go back without me begging and pleading.

Josh Lenox

And its posts like that on a public forum that drive even more women away from tournaments, including the maze daze which she is simply trying to get other women to play with instead of men probably. It sounds like you need to take that up with the tournament director or a pdga official to see what can be done about it so it can be corrected for future tournaments. Im sure you wouldnt want people talking about your club like that after an event. especially after they VOLUNTEERED their time to make it happen.

My daughters played Bowling Green last year and they enjoyed it immensely. Instead of playing in a small gender segregated division they played in the larger MA2 and MA3 divisions according to their ratings.

Glad I'm not in BG Right now, 37 and snow+wind.. ick. (of course it's cold down here too)

Why were the women put in a division where there were only 2 ratings propagators so that none of them will get round ratings?


Everyone will get official ratings at BG since propagators played the same courses as the ones those who didn't get unofficial ratings played. The online program hasn't been programmed yet to produce unofficial ratings by using scores from multiple rounds. So players won't see the official ratings until the mid-May ratings update. Up until this year, little effort was made to even get the unofficial ratings close due to all of the pools and schedule.

May Daze will be hosted by Disc Golf Shop and More LLC......not the BG Disc Golf Club.

DGSM recently sponsored the La Vie En Rose women only tournament down in Florida, and I got to caddy for my wife, and hang out with 70 women....what a blast!! I also have 2 daughters, and 2 female boxers:)

Any female ready to take on the challenge of May Daze will be well taken care of.....Juliana Korver and Sylvia Voakes will be present, and I have a slew of female disc golfer contacts to get suggestions from.

DGSM just awarded 31 disc golf girl scout badges in Bowling Green 2 weeks ago, and will continue to add more each month throughout KY....

I retired from the club, started my own company, so I could specifically concentrate on amateurs, women, and children...

I agree with a lot of what you said, but give May Daze a try under a different group of people in BG.

Peace,

Josh Dobelstein
#14490
Owner
Disc Golf Shop and More LLC

I believe they only had a final 9 for the top 5 division to play for the baskets. So other than that what happened to the women that didn't happen to the men this year.

Yeh John, Jeff whupped us all. He definately was the most consistent of we GMs there; sneaky long and just solid all-around.

Karl

And its posts like that on a public forum that drive even more women away from tournaments, including the maze daze which she is simply trying to get other women to play with instead of men probably. It sounds like you need to take that up with the tournament director or a pdga official to see what can be done about it so it can be corrected for future tournaments. Im sure you wouldnt want people talking about your club like that after an event. especially after they VOLUNTEERED their time to make it happen.



Couldn't agree more. I'm willing to bet that this person had AMPLE time to present these concerns directly to the Tournament Director himself at the event. Alternatively, contact information for the tournament director is widely available - a simple phone call, e-mail, or private message could have also communicated these concerns.

But as is all too often the case these days, people opt to choose to make these comments on message boards, air their dirty laundry in public, and poop on all the hard working local volunteers who labored to support the event. http://www.woohp.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsdown.gif

I never did hear the reason for trimming the final 9 for advanced from 8 players to 4 three rounds into the tournament. Any ideas?

I enjoyed the courses we played this weekend a lot, thanks for all the hard work to the BG crew.

I for one appreciate it when people complain about funky stuff at tournaments. As a player, I like to know what tournaments are good and what tournaments are rip-offs. I would hate to travel all the way to BG Ams not knowing that it is run as a fund raiser for BG Pros. Plus, these threads are always entertaining.

First I must say in the words of the great Tony Kornhieser "VALIDATION BABY!"

Thank you Hilltopper for your reply. I cannot wait to meet you, shake your hand and congratulate your wife for marrying such a smart man.

You openned up my can of worms,being from Bowling Green I didn't want to open.

My post was my first. I hope that you noticed that I envited every woman to play May Daze presented by The Disc Shop and More, but you would be hard pressed to find man, woman, child or beast I invited to play the Bowling Green Am presented by The Bowling Green Disc Golf Club. Why? For all the reasons and more you mentioned, thanks for mentioning them!!!!!

I refuse to talk about payouts, this club and others that I will not give an entry fee to again cannot think outside of the box when it comes to payouts, not just women's.

Wow. The women were definately put in the right pool, we were in the F Pool, and believe me from the day they changed the courses we were the F Pool--the we want your money, but DO NOT bother us pool.

We played 4 rounds without even filling up 18 holes with players. The ONLY time I felt that I was a part of this tournament was when I took it upon myself to walk the final 9 and see Blaine's amazing win and the great golf from Brian, Drew Sean, and Bryan! Thanks Guys! Bring it back to Bowling Green for May Daze!!

I am involved in the planning of May Daze and please ladies come to Bowling Green and be treated with love and respect while bringing some great competition for ALL Bolwing Green Players!!!


Thanks
Sheila Hardesty
#37185

Your entertainment value is the #1 reason why volunteers are burning out of disc golf at historic rates.

There's nothing more demoralizing than busting my butt for months to set up an event, taking the day off work beforehand, spending the whole weekend running the event (and not playing) and then coming home to see someone publicly bashing the event online because they 'only' got 4 premium plastic discs for 6th place. And more often than not, that same person hung around after the awards ceremony for hours as the TDs and tournament volunteers were helping to tear down and could have easily expressed this criticism in person. Or, called on the phone, sent an e-mail, or Private Message after the fact.

But of course, why bother with actual face-to-face interaction when you can safely bash disc golf volunteers from behind the safety of your computer screen.

So now some women are mad that the recreational women played the same courses the recreational men played. There hasn't been 1 single tournament I have went to that went flawless and every tourney I have been to has made somebody almost Irate. If you look long enough there will be something to complain about. I don't personally agree with a decision made about a tournament that I am really looking forward to. It is a small thing and I could sit here and complain about it and hound the TD about it but I prefer to think of the 100 positive things instead of the 1 negative and just realize that TDs have to make decisions that sometimes won't please everybody.

Your entertainment value is the #1 reason why volunteers are burning out of disc golf at historic rates.


Lighting the match for volunteer burn-out among the am-scam supporting volunteers is a big part of my mission statement. The facts actually show that tournaments are growing faster than membership.

Just one participant's views of the BG AM tournament...

First of all, a BIG thanks to all the volunteers / TDs for taking YOUR time to allow US players to play.

And if I may, a small critique...

"Fantastics":
1. The atmosphere (everybody was 'in the dg mood'!)
2. The player's attitudes (don't think I saw a sourpuss all weekend)
3. The player's parties / marts / freebies (these aren't easy to coordinate, but they're appreciated)

"Goods"
1. The tournament's 'value'
2. Variety of course types (some open, some tight, etc.)
3. Tournament organization (not 'perfect' but with 500 knuckleheads to worry about, I can only imagine the logistics...)

"Needs Tweaking"
1. Too much "artificial" OB (60 of my 72 holes and every one in the finals had it - sometimes a LOT of it). I'd rather it be a birdie-fest than arbitrarily trying to keep the scores out of the 40's. If that's all the landscape has to offer, so be it.
2. A few of the querky holes (PM 3, 17; CS 6, 14, 15; BG 9) should be changed a little...to allow something other than poke-n-hopes)
3. Announce before the players throw the first tee shot in the finals that there is actually OB behind the basket! I threw what I thought was a great tee shot just past the basket only to have the TD THEN tell me (once we got up there) that my disc was OB. I could (and would've) played safe had I known that.

Thanks again for putting this one on. It was fun!

Karl

Guys,
My wife and I have been to the last 5 BG Ams. I believe she has sent 3 letters to TD's about the way the Int and Adv Womens' divisions have been handled. She has never sent an email to any TD of any other event complaining about how they ran their events. 3 years ago the entire ADV women's field came close to leaving during the players' meeting. I think the TD's have been aware there have been issues. As I said the PDGA was aware of the situation as several also sent emails to them from past events.

Sheila made a comment about proving to the BG club that women play too. I don't think they care. A lot of the women don't think they care. That's why you had a drop off in the upper level women's divisions.

On a personal note, I have TD'd or course TD'd many events, losing money off of every one of them and not playing in a bunch. I have never run an event without someone complaining about something both online, in person, and via email. And you know what 99% of complaints are legit and appreciated. Because I screw up all the time. And players who come to events, at least I think, appreciate that I'm honest and will go out of my way NOT to repeat the same mistakes over and over.

Everyone knows that overall BG does a great job with the mens' divisions. That's why it has become the premier men's am event in the country. That's why I go and drag my wife kicking and screaming every year. That's why I deal with the 3 and a half hour drive home with her fuming every year.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't keep coming back year after year. Sheila, send I'm sending you an email. I will do my best to support your event in some way.

Josh Lenox

Mr. almighty and all knowing LaGrassa, why do you always bully and harass someone who has a legitimate complaint or feedback? Do you get paid by the PDGA or something to do that? How productive is it also when the people you keep harassing are members? Does this ever make people not want to join? I tend to think that all of this feedback is crucial if this sport is ever going to establish consistency and legitimacy. Thanks for your part in making that a pipe dream Jeff! (No pun intended with the pipe reference, but hey, "It's In The Air!" :o

Hilltopper you seem like someone who is sincere in trying to make BGams better for females and I do truly appreciate that and I do agree that if the course TD didn't know who was going to participate in the final nine then that needs to be fixed and I will pass that on as things that need to be fixed I will also pass on trying to get some of the lighter discs from the manufacturers set aside for the females and considering most guys want heavier stuff anyways if this is possible I could see it as a positive for everybody. I can assure you that planning for next year will start soon and if it can be fixed the club will try to fix it. But the rest of your grievences seem to be from past years, misunderstandings, or other tournaments.

First the advance women playing different courses happened 4 tournaments ago and hasn't happened since. It was unfortunate but how long does the club have to pay for one lapse in judgement that was done to make the numbers work. Second I consider a $100 mini basket in a division with 2 people in it pretty reasonable, once again I can't find any place that says major all I can find is top or largest if this was misunderstanding I do appologize. Third if you want coed or women's only doubles talk to Sun King or Disc Golf Shop and More I am sure if there is enough interest they would work with you. Fourth a lot of the other grievences don't apply to this year no T-shirts were given out and no CTPs were offered. The club does want to include women in the tournament but just saying that it sucks without specific examples doesn't help. I will pass along the 2 grievences that you had that I believe can be fixed at the next club meeting I can attend. If you have more then please let the club know.

Your entertainment value is the #1 reason why volunteers are burning out of disc golf at historic rates.

There's nothing more demoralizing than busting my butt for months to set up an event, taking the day off work beforehand, spending the whole weekend running the event (and not playing) and then coming home to see someone publicly bashing the event online because they 'only' got 4 premium plastic discs for 6th place. And more often than not, that same person hung around after the awards ceremony for hours as the TDs and tournament volunteers were helping to tear down and could have easily expressed this criticism in person. Or, called on the phone, sent an e-mail, or Private Message after the fact.

But of course, why bother with actual face-to-face interaction when you can safely bash disc golf volunteers from behind the safety of your computer screen.



You must have boys, because if you lived with 2 daughters and a wife....I think your tune would be different. Sheila gave her 50 bucks, and can say whatever she wants....

Everything that was said was true...no women for the final nine....no women only doubles......no women only putting.......no women only distance.......I'm glad somebody said something!

And I also noticed the great Frazer girls were not in attendance, for the first time as long as I remember.....I wish they would post something on here telling everybody why they didn't come...maybe it's because 2 years ago they didn't allow the adv women to play the final nine.....last year the Frazer champ, had to win her division in a putt off in a gym, with everybody talking and walking in front of her....

if you knew anything about women, you should just let her be mad, and say what's on her mind....

I hoped you noticed her original positive post....

Only pain brings change, and at least Sheila cares enough to express this....we love Bowling Green Disc Golf!

For the women, the 2009 BG Am Championships was blatent discrimination at the highest level...and I hope the club fixes this problem. I love BG Disc Golf, and thats why I'm saying this, because I want it fixed.

ok

Josh you own a disc golf shop in the hosting city if you wanted a women's only putting, doubles, or long distance competition I am sure the club will allow you to run one. So there you have it folks I just killed 2 or 3 birds with one stone. :cool::D :D

Just one participant's views of the BG AM tournament...

First of all, a BIG thanks to all the volunteers / TDs for taking YOUR time to allow US players to play.

And if I may, a small critique...

"Fantastics":
1. The atmosphere (everybody was 'in the dg mood'!)
2. The player's attitudes (don't think I saw a sourpuss all weekend)
3. The player's parties / marts / freebies (these aren't easy to coordinate, but they're appreciated)

"Goods"
1. The tournament's 'value'
2. Variety of course types (some open, some tight, etc.)
3. Tournament organization (not 'perfect' but with 500 knuckleheads to worry about, I can only imagine the logistics...)

"Needs Tweaking"
1. Too much "artificial" OB (60 of my 72 holes and every one in the finals had it - sometimes a LOT of it). I'd rather it be a birdie-fest than arbitrarily trying to keep the scores out of the 40's. If that's all the landscape has to offer, so be it.
2. A few of the querky holes (PM 3, 17; CS 6, 14, 15; BG 9) should be changed a little...to allow something other than poke-n-hopes)
3. Announce before the players throw the first tee shot in the finals that there is actually OB behind the basket! I threw what I thought was a great tee shot just past the basket only to have the TD THEN tell me (once we got up there) that my disc was OB. I could (and would've) played safe had I known that.

Thanks again for putting this one on. It was fun!

Karl



I am going to disagree with Karl on a couple of points, I think the value was more than fair. How many tourneys cost $50 and you get 5 discs? None that I am aware of, but they might be out there. Plus there was a disc for every group for at least 3 of the rounds. There was music two of the nights at the players parties, free music. Four rounds of golf. Someone was always giving away something. I am not sure what "value" was lacking at this event, I feel the value was absolutely great.

Regarding the OB, tighten up the courses even more. We didn't play the same courses, but I like the OB at White and at Lovers. Accuracy should be as valuable a commodity as distance. Risk and reward is what it is all about.

I think the organization was very strong this year. Getting the scores up as quickly as they did was amazing.

Overall an outstanding job by the BG team. Thank you for all the hard work. It is very much appreciated.

I have nothing but applause for their tourneys. I have been involved in running a lot of tournaments in the last 4 years and know that there is always something that didn't run as smooth as you would have liked it to. There is never going to be a tournament with 100 people that something didn't please everyone let alone 500+. I am amazed that they can get that many volunteers to shoulder the responsibility it takes to run this event. I am pretty sure all the TDs have real jobs and had to take time off to come out and show us a good time. Keep up the good work BG!

I also thoroughly enjoyed the host hotel setup. It was really cool to be able to take a elevator down to the plush convention center then walk out the back door and watch the final 9 on a ball golf course. That place was golden and I would like to know how you talked a ball golf course into shutting down for 3 hours so we could take it over.

Josh you own a disc golf shop in the hosting city if you wanted a women's only putting, doubles, or long distance competition I am sure the club will allow you to run one. So there you have it folks I just killed 2 or 3 birds with one stone. :cool::D :D



My company gave $50 to sponosr a hole, our company cleaned up Kerieakes....and our team members were competing all week.

I'll take care of the ladies at May Daze, don't worry....

Our company also gave out 31 disc golf badges to girl scouts 2 weekends ago, so we do plenty for the women disc golfers, and plan on doing more. We recently gave $250 to the La Vie En Rose womans only A tier tournament down in Florida, so I will take your request under consideration for next years BG Ams.....

The reason I started my company is that I wanted to provide great service to Bowling Green Disc Golfers full time.

I do think something is wrong when you have 2 local female hall of fame, world champion disc golfers not involved with the BG Club..they will be course officials at May Daze though:)

I wanted to thank HB and Rudy for pulling all this together, and delivering another epic BG tournament.......people don't realize how special this is....

Thanks to the PDGA for managing the scoring this year, big plus! (except for the women who didn't get ratings)

And as far as face to face feedback, I have no problem with that, and then we'll play some disc golf....:)

We're all good here in BG.........

ok

Peace

It wasn't an attack just a suggestion I am sorry if you saw it as such. Usually companies pay to run those competitions because they get to sell stuff and make a little off of the merchandise offered and since I have been attending the club has never run any of those events.

Yeah, I know your hearts in the right place.....I personally enjoyed everything about the long weekend......I didn't mind the lines or the other things that went on. I think the club did a great job, considering this is a voluteer only event......and part of the reason I started Disc Golf Shop and More, so we can eleviate some of that pressure from the club.....we are working fulltime on disc golf, and I believe that's what needs to be done to take it to the next level...

ok

This sport will *never* gain any consistency or legitimacy as long as people continue to choose not to address their complaints directly with the tournament directors, an option freely available to them, but instead decide to air their dirty laundry on internet message boards and blatantly disrespect hard-working TDs and event volunteers, and drive them out of the sport at record rates.

Jeff LaG,
Hey, I am happy for you that you had a great time at the 2009 Bowling Green Ams. I know that the TD's are happy to hear some positive feedback from this weekend.
Sheila Hardesty
#37185

This sport will *never* gain any consistency or legitimacy as long as people continue to choose not to address their complaints directly with the tournament directors, an option freely available to them, but instead decide to air their dirty laundry on internet message boards and blatantly disrespect hard-working TDs and event volunteers, and drive them out of the sport at record rates.



I wonder Jeff, if other TD's are like you and if they are even approachable. I wouldn't give you the time of day due to my consistent observance of your bullying and biased/prejudiced responses. So really, does the PDGA pay you or something to harass dues paying members? Also, how does your intimidating and negative responses to everything help membership growth and legitimacy of the sport? If any of the complaints are explored and used as constructive feedback, then at least they did increase the legitimacy and consistency, at least of course if the TD's and PDGA listen to the consumers (general dues paying consumers) and not cater to the old spoiled regime.

Can you be serious? The accusations of "bullying" and "intimidating" are about as ridiculous as it gets.

The only "bullying" and "intimidating" that goes on is when hard working TDs and volunteers aren't presented with these legitimate complaints and constructive feedback in person, via phone, e-mail or Private Message. Wasn't the PDGA Tour Manager, Dave Gentry present at this event? Did anyone choose to speak with him? No, instead we have to deal with a culture who increasingly chooses to poop on your event on internet message boards. Where after months of hard work and supporting a event, all the public is left with is poor impressions. Where the positive experiences of hundreds of disc golfers are overshadowed by the negative experiences of a few. Where the last taste in everyone's mouths isn't the 99 things you did right as a TD or a volunteer, but the one thing you got wrong.

Let's be 100% clear: If true, do I agree with the mistreatment of ladies at Bowling Green? Of course!

But I will never, ever agree that airing dirty laundry and drawing attention to your concern here is a preferred method to effect change. All it does it make the sport of disc golf look bad, drive away potential sponsors, and make for continued and increased burnout of hard-working TDs and volunteers. And I'm sick and tired of seeing it on this message board in the days immediately following most events.

Tom,

Your
I am going to disagree with Karl on a couple of points, I think the value was more than fair.


What's to disagree about? I placed it in my "Good" category. That means I thought the value was good! Good is "good". Good is better than average. Which is very close to more than fair. What's your point?

We can agree to disagree about the OBs (but as you pointed out, we didn't always play the same courses) so this point is rather moot.

And my point was to give some feedback to the organizers - both ways - as just 1 participant, that's all.

Karl

I think constructive criticism, both positive and negative, can be a good thing. As long as it is done and presented with the intent of making an event better. You have to remember Rudy is the third TD of this event in three years. Even though he wasn't TD last year he tried to learn from those mistakes and even though there were complaints most people told me this years was better than last and I think most would agree, this years BG ams was better than last years. As a volunteer I am not offended and I don't think Rudy will be either by the criticisms of players that offered it constructively like Karl, Tom, and Hilltopper. I just hope that everyone realizes there is no way to make everyone happy and you can use the small example of Karl wanted less O.B. and Tom asked for more. I don't think there is anyway to make 500 or so people happy but I can tell you Rudy will listen to all of your complaints and criticisms(hopefully constructive) and try to fix everything he can fix for next year. I do think that going directly to the TD and telling him may be best (he is usually on every couple of days at www.bgdgclub.com (http://www.bgdgclub.com)) but if you choose to discuss it here that is your right.

If people didn't voice concerns about things and the way they were, we'd all be British.

If potential sponsors continue to hear about 500+ person disc golf events, come to our PDGA website with the intention of getting involved, open up tournament event threads only to find harsh criticism, bashing of TDs and and volunteers, and besmirching every attempt people are making to try to grow the sport, disc golf will continue to remain in the colonial ages.

for the record, Jeff treats people this way on local message boards in the state he is the PDGA rep! I can count at least 2 boards where he is welcomed as warmly as he is here! (110% sarcastic remark there)

Praise in public, punish in private folks. All you are doing is discouraging a bunch of hard working folks. Send a PM or a email, heck the TD would probably give you his phone number if you wanted to discuss your grievances in person.

It is just disc golf at the end of the day. Nobody playing BG Ams is making a living from playing disc golf, we do it because it's fun. I could have bought a basket like the winners got with the money I spent on my trip. What fun is putting in your back yard by yourself? BG is not only a great tournament but a awesome experience and a bit of a adventure. Keep up the good work guys!

I personally dont mind people listing their grievances out in the open. Josh D, and myself are probably the only 2 BG people who frequent the Discussion board, and I think it's a great way for every side of an issue to speak. The purpose of these boards is to express how you feel in a respectful manner, even if your feelings are not positive. With the Discussion Board this is the easiest means for me to communicate peoples feelings both good and bad to the club so we know what we did right and what we need to improve.

But there were 480 people who had a blast and 3 who didn't, just so happens that those three want to voice their opinion and run down a great tournament. I just wish the other 480 would post their satisfaction with the effort you guys threw down.

The problem is that people never choose to address their concerns with the TD or the PDGA first, and when they do express how they feel on these boards, it's rarely in a respectful manner.


All you are doing is discouraging a bunch of hard working folks.



Exactly.

I 100% disagree. When technology changes, so must people. This generation relies on telecommunications and emails and discussion boards. If Jeff, the PDGA or others want to discourage this sort of communication, then get rid of the discussion board for the PDGA website. Congruence is a great thing, but technology has eliminated purity and allowed for individual perceptions lacking in congruence. Unless you abandon technology, this is the ship you are sailing. Get used to it, as in the future it is going to get a lot worse. You either accept it and make a clear and concise way for all tournaments to be run, including expectations of volunteers, or you continue to have mediocrity and inconsistencies week after week. Volunteers have no pedestal to whine on. If you don't want to do the volunteer work, then don't. If you complain on this board that you aren't appreciated, then you aren't a good volunteer. Don't do it anymore. Jeff, I dare you to volunteer for the rest of the year and not whine about how nobody appreciates you. I bet my soul on it that you can't do that!

Embracing technology does not mean we abandon traditional values and respect for our common man and the volunteers who keep making our sport possible. Without volunteers, our sport dies completely. I will always defend those who volunteer, and I will always speak out against those who publicly poop on the efforts of others and hold back the growth of sport we all love.

You will never win the argument that publicly trashing an event is the preferable alternative to privately discussing the issue with the Tournament Director or PDGA Tour Manager by face-to-face meeting, phone call, or e-mail.

Again, you either embrace it and adjust to the new social norms of communication (which is still changing for the negative) or you abandon the discussion board entirely. You just can't have it your way Jeff, because you will never be able to conform the world to your simple but true rationale. I guess my point is that nobody in PDGA management is seeing things as clearly as I, which I wonder is because of the long history of smoke "In The Air". Until tournaments have a standard and upheld expectation and criteria for all aspects, this is the continuing issue that will surpass the beaten horse. Again, if you embrace technology, you are abandoning traditional values, most importantly congruence. I just accept it and don't take message boards too seriously anymore. 100% unclear communication.

I agree with Jeff. If you have a problem with how the tournament was run. Contact the TD by any means that you are comfortable with. I agree there is lots of technology out there for people to use but, it is best to use it in an considerate manner. TDs or volunteers are not bulletproof but, I do believe that they are owed the common courtesy of direct communication of your complaint. If you are not satisfied with the result than feel free to post your feelings on the matter, but you should not do so unless you have at least communicated with the TD/volunteers.

Such as people complaining about why the payouts were low at this event. There is probably a reason why the payouts are low. A large player pack with a mid-sized entry does not leave a lot in the pool for payouts. I am sure that the TD could give detailed information as to this and all a player would have to do is contact the TD. Maybe the player is still not happy, but at least the player has a direct answer. If they choose to emo-whine on the messageboard at that point by all means they are free to.

EDIT: This is solely in regards to the conversation between Jeff &amp; PolishPower about contacting the TD and not the BG AM situation at hand.

I will always speak out against those who publicly poop on the efforts of others and hold back the growth of sport we all love.




I'm sure these volunteers are mostly grownups. I'm hoping that because of the fact that they are grownups, they can handle some criticism. Face it dude, [censored] happens. TDs can't control that. When [censored] happens, people should complain. That way the [censored] doesn't happen again. It's not "pooping on the TD."

The ladies are telling the TDs why they were not satisfied with BG AM's product, and why they are not going to buy it again unless the product is improved upon. That is exactly the opposite of "holding the sport back." Realize this, son.


Jeff, what's your problem here? Competition leads to improvement which leads to a better product. Sheila's going to offer her own product. She's letting the ladies know that her product is better than BG AMs. If the BG TDs care about getting ladies to attend and making sure they have a good time (completely their choice), they will see what Sheila did and why it did/didn't work, and they will make sure to improve their own product next year.

I think what most people are not accepting on here, probably because they come from an older, more structured upbringing of values and integrity, is that values and integrity are not a common practice these days. It is not taught in the schools anymore, and it is certainly not a product of most younger peoples lives, primarily in lieu of failed parenting. Working as a family therapist, I assure you you are never going to win the battle of educating and teaching the world values. With that said, how do you expect the world to rise to the value level of some of the disgruntled volunteers? Is someone necessarily wrong for living the way that they are taught by new and changing social norms, considering of course that cultural norms and social class norms are very varied? Seriously, is this ever going to be solved? How appropriate is it to pass judgement on someone who has been or is being a product of there environment? To me, there are so many bigger issues within this one. I also feel that until most people accept such and choose to help make such large changes, this will be the perpetual cycle of disfunction. I am so going to work now. I say good day! :cool:

congratulations Blaine from Chris and Lori (we met you at La Vie En Rose) Nice shooting!!!

If they choose to emo-whine on the messageboard



Oh my god, did you even read what the ladies were saying? They got the shaft. NO SIDE GAMES AT ALL. No final 9. You ever been to BG? The 5 Highlights of BG-
1. 4 courses in KY spring weather.
2. Huge fields.
3. Player parties
4. Final 9
5. Sidegames (Distance, putting, doubles, etc.)

Would anyone disagree that these are the 5 highlights/main draws to BG AMs?

They did not receive 3/5 of the main draws to the tourney. Their cash is green, and they deserved all the benefits the men got. But they did not receive them. Emo-whining my [censored].

Not referring to this titled part of the thread Daemon. I was just referring to people that don't contact the TD in one way or another and then complain on the message board about that in general for any tournament. The conversation between Jeff &amp; PolishPower.

If you don't like something that I do at my tournament or that something the one of my volunteers have done just tell my via: email, fax, letter, phone, smoke singals and not on a message board was what I was trying to convey. If you talk with me and are still not satisfied then by all means feel free to post away. I just think that a TD deserves your direct feedback first.

For the record, yes I have been there. Also, I think that the women were not treated fairly as well. I think that all players should be treated the same: Men/Women/Open/AM.

If they choose to emo-whine on the messageboard



Oh my god, did you even read what the ladies were saying? They got the shaft. NO SIDE GAMES AT ALL. No final 9. You ever been to BG? The 5 Highlights of BG-
1. 4 courses in KY spring weather
2. Huge fields.
3. Player parties
4. Final 9
5. Sidegames (Distance, putting, doubles, etc.)

Would anyone disagree that these are the 5 highlights/main draws to BG AMs?

They did not receive 3/5 of the main draws to the tourney. Their cash is green, and they deserved all the benefits the men got. But they did not receive them. Emo-whining my [censored].



1.) They received them.
2.) The club has no control over.
3.) They received them.
4.) It was for the five biggest divisions this year and there were only 2 women in advance women.
5.) The club never has run any of the side events in Bowling Green. One of the manufacturers or shops always runs all of the side events. If you find one that will run any of the ladies events I am sure something can be worked out.

I can assure that the club wants women and every disc group in the BG Ams and they will do what they can within reason. But you have to realize some of the things the club has no control over. If you let us know of anything you see that the club can change me or JD will definitely let the TD know for next year. Our goal is to make every disc golfer feel welcomed but you have to realize some things are simply out of our control.

Mark, I'm glad you agree that the ladies got the shaft. Sorry to have misunderstood you. I think that there is nothing wrong with airing grievances publicly, as long as it is all constructive criticism.
To me, "This is what I don't like about this tournament..." or "I didn't attend this tournament because..." is constructive.

They did not receive 3/5 of the main draws to the tourney.



1.) They received them.
2.) The club has no control over.
3.) They received them.
4.) It was for the five biggest divisions this year and there were only 2 women in advance women.
5.) The club never has run any of the side events in Bowling Green. One of the manufacturers or shops always runs all of the side events. If you find one that will run any of the ladies events I am sure something can be worked out.




So you agree with me.

But how did the club do it and what can we do to fix it? You also forgot 6.) players pack

You're right. Alot of people get excited about the player pack. I should have included it.

So call it 3/6. OK.

I would say guaranteeing a final 9 for Am1 ladies would be a great start. You say it was only for the 5 biggest divisions. Should Am3 and age-protected divisions be showcased instead of the top AM ladies in the midwest/country? Me, I'd rather see some AM1 ladies play than AM3 or Am GM's, for obvious reasons. If only the 5 biggest divs are offered every year, ladies will never be in the finals, ever. That's no good.

Huge fields- This is like the chicken or the egg, which comes first? You guys gotta offer incentive, and they will come.

Buy 10-20 nice dryfit lady-size polos (edit- for their player packs). At the least, make sure they're a step above the men's shirts. You'll end up with extra, I'm sure. But that's what it takes.

Offer free ladies-only sidegames with 10-20 club discs. For real, let me know if you want ideas.

Offer prizes for ladies beating men that are in the same pool, round by round and bigger prizes for overall.

Offer volunteer caddies for all women. If that's not possible, offer caddies for the lead card ladies in AM1.

I would think that you could easily raffle off those 4 volunteer caddy positions among non-playing club members and pros, as they would be in high demand. Sell some tix, winner gets a caddy spot and a signature disc or other prize. Raise funds for some high quality shirts for the ladies.

There are so many more ideas where these came from. If you want me to spend some more time, I would be happy to.

Mark, I'm glad you agree that the ladies got the shaft. Sorry to have misunderstood you. I think that there is nothing wrong with airing grievances publicly, as long as it is all constructive criticism.
To me, "This is what I don't like about this tournament..." or "I didn't attend this tournament because..." is constructive.



Agreed with you 100%, with two caveats:

The problem is that 1) People don't choose to discuss it with the TD first. Like Mark said, if you don't like something done at a tournament or that something one of the volunteers has done, just tell them via face-to-face meeting, phone, email, fax, letter, etc. first. The TD deserves the courtesy of your direct feedback first.

2) When the feedback is presented online, it is rarely helpful constructive criticism. It is usually rude, disrespectful, demeaning and demoralizing to TDs and event volunteers. Want a good example? A few weeks ago in Michigan, there was an event where one disgruntled competitor made veiled physical threats and hoped that the TD would "choke on the money he just stole from everyone..." That kind of response should never, ever be tolerated and is completely unacceptable behavior both in real life and in cyberspace.

Personally I feel this kind of information needs to be brought out in the open. I want to know what went wrong at an event. So as I plan a different event I know what could be a potential problem and fix it.

Also if I see someone has a legitimate complaint about an event and the T.D. has not addressed the issue the same problem will most likely be there next year. In which case I will not attend.

I always praise a T.D. and volunteers that do good jobs and I am also vocal about ones that do bad jobs. I have had 4 bad experiences with tournaments, two of those events I haven't played since. One they fixed the problems the next year and I played the year after that. The last event was last years Bowling Green Ams, and of course I didn't go this year. The best way to show how you feel is dont show up and dont give them your money.

: ) :

Mark, I'm glad you agree that the ladies got the shaft. Sorry to have misunderstood you. I think that there is nothing wrong with airing grievances publicly, as long as it is all constructive criticism.
To me, "This is what I don't like about this tournament..." or "I didn't attend this tournament because..." is constructive.



Agreed with you 100%, with two caveats:

The problem is that 1) People don't choose to discuss it with the TD first. Like Mark said, if you don't like something done at a tournament or that something one of the volunteers has done, just tell them via face-to-face meeting, phone, email, fax, letter, etc. first. The TD deserves the courtesy of your direct feedback first.

2) When the feedback is presented online, it is rarely helpful constructive criticism. It is usually rude, disrespectful, demeaning and demoralizing to TDs and event volunteers. Want a good example? A few weeks ago in Michigan, there was an event where one disgruntled competitor made veiled physical threats and hoped that the TD would "choke on the money he just stole from everyone..." That kind of response should never, ever be tolerated and is completely unacceptable behavior both in real life and in cyberspace.



Jeff, you are waaaay too sensitive on this issue....ask any restaurant manager if they would rather have that couple leave a comment card, ripping the establishment for the mistakes....or just keeping their mouth shut, and never coming back....like the majority do, because they don't like confrontation.

It's hard to know what you will get from year to year when there are different board members, and different tournament directors for an annual tournament....

This is even more reason to at least state what the problems are publically, so players will be informed.

Chill out, just run a good tournament, and the rest should take care of itself.

Volunteers run over 1,000 tournaments.....that's great....but when they run crummy events.....THAT'S what holds disc golf back, so it's better that those TD's and volunteers go away!


ok

Josh Dobelstein
#14490

I thought BG was ran great!

It was my first time traveling out of state to go to a tournament, and I felt that this was handled amazingly for how many people there were.

For those who say the TD didn't care about them, I can't personally agree because even when there was a hectic schedule going on on Saturday getting the two rounds in, my TD (The main TD in charge) stayed around and made sure my ride came to pick me up because I was the last person at Chalybeate.

I also feel that the TD's really appreciated people who came in from out of town. Overall this was a blast, payout was a little low, but that Riot is awesome!

Trey

So just wondering if anything is happening in regards to Blaine breaking the rules at the end of the tournament, I know he wasn't DQ'd at the event but is the PDGA gonna get a backbone and stick up for the rules and take the W away or what? will anything ever happen to show people they need to know and follow the rules?

: ) :

Tournament is over. Once the event is done, and no one called him on it before the event is over then it's a moot point.

what was the issue or rule that was broken?

there is a video on YouTube of him drinking a beer before the tournament was over.

: ) :

Tournament is over. Once the event is done, and no one called him on it before the event is over then it's a moot point.



mostly as far as finish in the event. however he could still be banned from PDGA play for a period of time.

: ) :

there is a video on YouTube of him drinking a beer before the tournament was over.

: ) :



again.....nothing illegal happened....the scorecard was in the TD's hand....Blaine had no need to see it or check it again.....the sip of Bud Light Lime (tournament sponsor) was legal....and the youtube exposure might encourage more beer sponsors, and similar celebrations.....I see nothing wrong with this...


ok

i dont think he had holed out at he time he was drinking, hence the round was not over

From another thread, supposedly quoted from the competition manual-

"D. The use of alcohol is forbidden from the 2-minute warning
until the player�s scorecard is submitted. Such use shall
result in immediate disqualification at a B Tier or higher
event. At a C or D Tier event the TD shall either disqualify
the offending player or issue them a warning. If a player
has been issued a warning, all subsequent violations shall
result in immediate disqualification."

From another thread. I'm not sure where this definition comes from-

"Holed-Out: A term used to signify completion of a hole. A player has holed-out after the removal of the at rest disc from the chains or entrapment area of a disc entrapment device."



If the above is true, then the question that pops into my head is "Can a player submit his scorecard before he completes the last hole?"

Rule 803.13
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to
hole out, the thrower must release the
disc and it must come to rest supported
by the chains or within one of the
entrapment sections. This includes a disc
wedged into or hanging from the lower
entrapment section but excludes a disc
resting on top of, or hanging outside of,
the upper entrapment section. The disc
must also remain within the chains or
entrapment sections until removed.

Per this rule he has not holed out. Another issue (since he is not "officially" holed out) is that by picking up the basket he has changed the stipulated course by not replacing it to the original position.

I would love to hear the competition director's view on this

I would love to hear the competition director's view on this

The competition director's view might be interesting but it would also be irrelevant. The competition director cannot DQ anyone. Only the TD can issue a DQ. The issue would be for the Disciplinary Committee initially, and then for the BOD if the player appealed, but the DC usually won't act without a complaint.