A group finishes the round. The person with the card adds the scores up and hands it into the TD. The person adding up the scores made an error and wrote a wrong score down for someone else. Should that person get a chance to add their score up for them self before taking a penalty?

They had the chance to add their score before the cards were turned in. A player is responsible for the total on their card and should never allow another person to total the score without verifying the result.

Once the card is turned in, there should be no opportunity for the score to be corrected by the player. It would not be fair for players that are nearby to have a chance to correct their score while players that cannot be found do not have the same opportunity.

it's the players responsibility either way. i would never let a card i cared about get turned in without counting it. thaty being said, they never should have changed the rule requiring all players to initial the card.

...they never should have changed the rule requiring all players to initial the card.



What was the RC's rationale for changing this rule to 'no initials/sig required' in the first place? :confused:

why does a signature mater. you are allowing it to be turned in.

: ) :

At least now you HAVE to add up the card! There were several "pros" at an event a few years ago who refused to add the card so they wouldn't mis-add the card. :mad:

It's another case of not taking responsibility. You took a chance on someone else and their math skills. Bottom line: add you own card and check it twice.

why does a signature mater. you are allowing it to be turned in.

: ) :



It (just) means you have approved of the math by notating/initializing it. And, you're right...turning the card in accomplishes this as well.

Again, I'd like to know why the RC dispensed with this notarization?
Perhaps their reasoning will shed some light on my darkness. :D

It's not uncommon for some players to quickly bail upon finishing the last hole if they've had a bad round. The old rule that required a sig could technically hold up the tournament until those players were tracked down after lunch or at the end of the event. By not requiring a sig under current rules, the responsibility falls to the player to either check the score or accept whatever the other players in the group determine their score to be and a player can't hold the event "hostage" by not signing.

When the cards are turned in...its final. Initials or non-initials have no bearing on the number in the total box....that number is right or its not regardless. There were some hold-ups at the few tournaments I was on staff when initials were "required"...Im glad they took the requirment out.

If signatures were required, how would cards without signatures be handled?

1. Ignored (handled as if it had been signed).
2. Hunt the player down so they can sign the card.
2. 2 stroke penalty for incorrect scorecard.
3. 4 stroke penalty for no signature(for emphasis).
4. Immediate Disqualification.

i like the idea of 2 stroke penalty for incorrect card.

I like the idea of DQ

Before you say oh that's to harsh.....consider this.............

That is the penalty in a PGA event for ANY incorrect scorecard. Imagine how few incorrect scorecards would be turned in if doing so resulted in DQ!! Players would all of a sudden become very deliberate in checking AND turning in their scorecards - this would be a blessing for TD's.

I like the idea of DQ

Before you say oh that's to harsh.....consider this.............

That is the penalty in a PGA event for ANY incorrect scorecard. Imagine how few incorrect scorecards would be turned in if doing so resulted in DQ!! Players would all of a sudden become very deliberate in checking AND turning in their scorecards - this would be a blessing for TD's.



Yeah, I think that's a bit harsh. Nonetheless, I agree with your sentiment. I think 2 strokes is reasonable. Each player is responsible for their own score. After every round I will insist that I get a crack at adding everybody's score and will strongly suggest that my fellow players do the same thing. We should then have four checks against the score. Signatures are not needed. Scores are. I do not run tournaments. However, if I did and received a card with no addition those players would each get score +2 + a little public humiliation at the player's meeting for the second round.

For the record, I acknowledge that DQ would be a harsh penalty.

But if the goal is to have all scorecards turned in and be correct............knowing going in that you don't get to play more if your scorecard is wrong would take care of that real quick :)

Yeah, DQ is harsh in the big scheme of things. But the corporate goal seems to be "no harsh penalties" instead of "no BS". Since DQ is an extremely rare response to rudeness or ineptitude, it appears the corporate goal has been achieved through accommodating these behaviours.

Maybe add a few more strokes from 2 to 4 if you want people to understand how important it is.

The problem with harsh rules is that no one will enforce them. The promoter of a tournament and the rules enforcer are usually the same person or group of people. It doesn't work for them to be rules nazis. You really gotta wet on my shoes, so to speak, for me to DQ you. I'd never DQ anyone for bad math skills.

When I get a card with no totals (usually it has scores like -3, +2 etc) I call out the names and when someone comes back I say, "You have to give us totals." I never stroke anyone for that. Same thing if I get a card that obviously has wrong totals, like if we were playing a 22 hole course and it is clear at a glance that they did under/over par 54 instead of 66. If you drop off the card and split for lunch, there's nothing i can do. But if you're right there and I can tell at a glance that the card is messed up, I'll just hand it back to you. I think that's kind of IOS ISO procedure with Jon, Brett and I.

Or maybe that's why they don't let me check cards so much anymore? One of the two. :D

Bruce,

I once thought very much like that, and I tend to want to work that way, but it is really not fair to the people that pay attention at the players meeting (if the TD mentions to put in totals), those that get everyone on their card to check their totals, and those that run off to lunch as soon as they turn their cards.

Once the card is in the box, it is too late to make changes without penalty and still be fair to those that follow the rules. I will still call them back and explain why they are receiving a penalty and allow them to see the card, but I do not let them slide with a warning.

I do spend a lot of time asking if they have totals when they are bringing in the cards though...

I like the idea of DQ

Before you say oh that's to harsh.....consider this.............

That is the penalty in a PGA event for ANY incorrect scorecard. Imagine how few incorrect scorecards would be turned in if doing so resulted in DQ!! Players would all of a sudden become very deliberate in checking AND turning in their scorecards - this would be a blessing for TD's.



Craig,

To be fair, the PGA Tour DQ's players for signing for an incorrect scorecard if the score is in their favor. If the player signs for a score that is actually WORSE than what they shot. the player is stuck with the score he signed for, but is not DQ'd.

Chap

And to make it even easier... in ball golf you are not responsible for the math. You are only responsible for each hole score being correct.

If signatures were required, how would cards without signatures be handled?

1. Ignored (handled as if it had been signed).
2. Hunt the player down so they can sign the card.
2. 2 stroke penalty for incorrect scorecard.
3. 4 stroke penalty for no signature(for emphasis).
4. Immediate Disqualification.



5. 2 strokes for card not totaled.