Anyone with a clue as to when we will be able to apply for the Competition Endowment Program for next year? It was a great success in our highly active SN area for waived non-PDGA member fees. It was also a great tool in sanctioning our Ice Bowl and bumping up the charitable donation. Looking forward to applying to use the program for a couple of events in 09 when the documents are available. The deadline for a January event must be approaching soon or past! :o

I think a better place to start than here is the PDGA office.

Chris

October 24, I sent a note to PDGA HQ requesting info/sanctioning.

The immediate (Oct 25) reply was:
"Thank you for your email. The 2009 sanctioning agreement has not yet been released. We are looking at mid-November for the release. All TD's and State Coordinators will be notified at this time and will be able to start submitting events for 2009.

The Competition Endowment Program will be available in 2009, but may have some changes to it. We are currently reviewing the success of the program in 2008. "

Yes, the program was a great benefit in our low membership area.
Let's hope that the changes, if any, are minor.

respectfully
steve timm

An associate of mine received a reply from the PDGA office that stated that the CEP for 2009 details will be listed on PDGA.com later today.

If the rules stay the same for developmental events, there will be two PDGA sanctioned events in Mobile, Alabama next year. Which is a H-U-G-E step forward for the PDGA in that area, if you don't already know. Stay tuned.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2009CompetitionEndowmentProgram-Details.pdf

WOW

"A min. of 25% of entry fees must be donated to event charity in addition to $2 PDGA per player fee.

25%

steve timm

ah,,, well $5 is better than $10. I can work with $5, really. It's not that big a deal. We'll be sending in our application posthaste and such.


russ3523

It looks like they just increased the amount that the event must donate to the charity. How is that a bad thing?

It does cost $25 more dollars for the sanctioning fee though.

An improvement though, even though you may charge the $10 non member fee for a charity event and you must charge $5 non member fee at a developmental event, now you get a PDGA number and a mini for the $5 or $10 fee.

so they are making the players members?

WOW

"A min. of 25% of entry fees must be donated to event charity in addition to $2 PDGA per player fee.

25%

steve timm


This is the <font color="red">ONLY </font>reason that EDGE will get less dollars from me this year, as I will will not try to raise another 4200 dollars(700 x 6 Events which average close to $3000 in entry fees)to cover that addition to the Competition Endowment Program, when I have enough trouble even finding enough sponsors to facilitate the payouts I am used to making for the last 13 years at my Events.
I think this change will keep ALOT of TD's from signing up this year in my opinion. It has already affected at least 2.

Keith

I think it is a matter of player education. Disc golfers have always been more than generous if they know where the money is going and that they should expect diminished payouts because of it.

I think it is a matter of player education. Disc golfers have always been more than generous if they know where the money is going and that they should expect diminished payouts because of it.



Correct on that aspect, but 25%?
It should have been 5% to maybe 10% at most to get everyone on board.

You don't miss 150-300 dollars on 3 thousand in entry fees spread out over 72 players, BUT they will notice 700-750 dollars missing no matter if it's for a good cause.

I just think it went too much knee jerk reaction after getting GREAT feedback in '08 and by trying to raise more, it will actually raise less.

I was 100% onboard with setting my Series of 6 Events up with it, I got signed up with EDGE for the charity, and kept bugging Karolyn to let me know as soon as the stuff was ready so I could sign up.
Then came the 25% FEE and I said no thanks, so it definately just from my Events alone costs EDGE $4.00 ($2 PDGA plus match x 432 players) or $1728.00 MINIMUM.(if NOTHING else was added except player fees)

I think it is a bad idea at 25% and it should be looked at again to lower it to a reasonable number as soon as possible to still allow time for TD's to reconsider using this good fundraising tool for charities.
Multiply my thoughts to even 10 TD's out of 1000 PDGA Events, and it costs alot of money to charities, wheras with a lower percentage, you may have 200 Events out of 1000 raising money for charities.

Just my opinion.

Keith

I don't think I'll be seeking this "endowment" grant for my Ice Bowl. Not sure if I'll sanction it with that "southern touring series" either. We'll see. I will be seeking a grant for our Spring event.

rWc3523

If an Ice Bowl is sanctioned as a C-tier using the competition endowment program, can mulligans be sold to raise extra money for the event's charity?

If you sell mulligans, then the ratings aren't valid as now you are an XC-tier.

WOW

"A min. of 25% of entry fees must be donated to event charity in addition to $2 PDGA per player fee.

25%

steve timm



Steve,
Was the 2008 Pot of Gold a PDGA CEP Charity event?

Thanks,
Ron

"Agree that for B and C Tier events, all non-current or non-PDGA members (with the exception of those competing in a Youth
or Junior division) will only be allowed to compete upon payment of a $10 fee in lieu of membership. This $10 fee does not entitle
the player to the calculation of points or the assignment of a player rating. Non-members who pay the $10 fee will receive a
Supporting Level Membership with the PDGA (Includes: PDGA Number, mini and rulebook)"


so

we go to great lengths to point out that this is in lieu of membership (which i think means something along the lines of "instead of") and then we assign them a number? seems odd.

anyway,

we need a new tier. i dont know what to call it, but it wont have any event fees. you'll be able to get insurance. maybe you'll get ratings. you wont get points, you wont get flyers or stickers or rulebooks to pass out. as a matter of fact you wont get anything, except for insurance and maybe ratings.(did i mention i'm not really sure about the ratings.) you'll pay $50 ahead of time and nothing after.

pdga, what do you have to lose? announce it by the New Year, how about it? it'll be worth it.

Are you suggesting this for charity events only, a charity-tier , if you will? if so, yes i agree, this would avoid the confusion of calculating in the fees, then matching the fees, then subracting that from the purse and adding it to the charity... you just get the insurance, and donate all the money that you can donate. keep it simple.

and as far as the ongoing conversation about EDGE, yes it sucks that you dont/cant give the money to edge, but this change as i see it is focused on charity events, not events that can afford to scrape a bit off the top for charity. so its ensuring that the endowment program is used for charity events, not events that give a bit to charity. yea it sucks in your case, but probably better for others. give and take.

We ran a 1 day, C-Tier CEP Charity event last year. After seeing this discussion, I went back and looked at our numbers.

About 2500 in entry fees
About 300 in donated dollars
About 1300 went to charity donation
No problem with meeting the 25%

Seems to me that the new 25% baseline is just to ensure that the charity event-------- really is a charity event.

I'm guessing some events from 2008 that flew under the CEP banner were wanting some PDGA fees savings (or the cheap $50 insurance) and a "charity event" seemed like the way to go.

Last year, the CEP option was a pilot program. It was exactly what TD's with ice bowls and annual charity events were looking for. Great for the PDGA image -- giving back to the community. I like it. The new donation % requirement fine-tunes what the CEP was meant to be.


Pat, it seems that offering an insurance only option would be a step backwards. Here's my thinking ---- -By eliminated the charity-based requirement, not only does PDGA give up its fees, but nobody benifits from the community. Besides, if a TD could get cheap insurance without it "really" being a PDGA event (no ratings, no fees, no nothing) then, I contend that in PDGA weak areas that the number of real sanctioned events would go down. Backwards?

Thanks,
Ron

number of sanctioned events would go up.

my idea is not limited to charity events. disc golfers dont need the pdga to reduce fees to entice them to be charitable. the association would be better served by finding some other way to link the pdga name with local charity events, and to support and encourage those events.

that way we could bring pdga sanctioning to pretty much any event that wanted it. it would broaden the association's reach tremendously. while there are many reasons events sanction, three of the strongest influencers are:

1. insurance
2. ratings
3. the combination of insurance and ratings

in non-pdga areas, players dont give a crap much about pdga ratings. if they did, the area would already be an association stronghold. so, in non-pdga areas the sport is well-served with an insurance only event tier. throw in ratings if you want, that just makes it sweeter.

these would be real pdga events, make no mistake. the pdga is not giving up any fees, because those events would not have sanctioned previously. you could to argue that some B and C tiers would switch to this tier, but if that is the case those events are at serious risk of not sanctioning again anyway. the fees are gonna be lost anyway. this represents a clear way to retain a relationship with those events.

as far as the community not getting any charity - the funds that would have paid for event fees are still available for use any which way the players who would have paid them choose. local charity, local course improvements, donations to the IDGC, whatever they wish.

i'll call again for the association to announce this program by Jan 1.

pDGA leadership, enough, help grow the sport, or get out of the way

Much like one may yell at a clueless official calling an athletic event-

"Your'e missing one heck of a game!"

Based on discussions posted in areas with lower PDGA representation, it appears there's interest in ratings of some sort because they have the same concerns about sandbagging in their non-sanctioned events as the PDGA did when ratings were implemented as a way to reduce the problem. However, it appears many in those areas feel the price to join the PDGA and sanction events is currently too high as a way to get ratings. I think there are ways that can be addressed. But PDGA staff has so much on its plate as it is that some ideas have to be shelved until there is more staff time to address them.

If the intent for running an event is to raise money for a charity, it would seem the goal would be to figure out how to run it in a way that generates the most money and/or contributions to the charity. Keeping the fund raising costs (including payout) to the minimum necessary to get enough contributors to attend would be foremost. We expect charities themselves to be run efficiently so a high percentage of contributions goes toward providing their charitable services. The Better Business Bureau guidelines: Charitable Accountability (http://us.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=113&amp;id=4dd040fd-08af-4dd2-aaa0-dcd66c1a17fc) consider charities spending less than 35% of their budget on fundraising and admin expenses to be managing well.

If citizens expect that good charities spend more than 65% of income on providing services, why shouldn't we expect our events to provide at least 65% of the purse as a charitable contribution? The PDGA now only asks a minimum of 25% be contributed. But I think we've seen disc golfers be willing to contribute much beyond that such that the phrase "How much payout is involved?" should be a minor consideration in our management of charitable events.

these would be real pdga events, make no mistake. the pdga is not giving up any fees, because those events would not have sanctioned previously. you could to argue that some B and C tiers would switch to this tier, but if that is the case those events are at serious risk of not sanctioning again anyway.



Hmm... I think I can see that. Give clubs or TD's that have never sanctioned the oppourtunity to "stick thier toe" in the PDGA waters. That sounds good.

But, instead of being perpetually available --- I would suggest it as a stepping stone to sanctioning their next event as a existing C tier. Now, that would be real growth.

Thanks,
Ron

enough, help grow the sport

or get the ^$%#( out of the way



Dang, Steve,
I sure hope that wasn't aimed at me.

I didn't realize that I was whizzing, and I had no idea that your cornflakes were nearby.

Ron

The EDGE Tournament Charity Program is a great opportunity to utilize the PDGA Endowment Program. EDGE is a 501c3 charity that benefits local youth, schools and communities. Your tournament will be able to raise more sponsorship being associated with a 501c3 charity. With the EDGE TCP, 2/3 of the tournaments donation will be used to help fund educational disc golf programs within the state of origin. Plus the tournament will have a chance to win some great prizes. Just check out the EDGE thread for more details or visit the EDGE website. (http://www.edgediscgolf.org)

EDGE TCP raised over $12,000 in its first year and EDGE has granted out close to $6,000 from this cool program.

Sign up for 2009, The Future is Now! :D