Is it possible to make fixing the scoring and rating system a huge priority? For most of us, having our scores posted and round ratings is the primary benefit of being a PDGA member. I think most people use this site like our own little sportscenter. It would cool if we made this a priority because I want to seriously show off and flex my disc golf muscles by sending my friends and enemies my scores.

Thanks for your consideration!

Is it possible to make fixing the scoring and rating system a huge priority? For most of us, having our scores posted and round ratings is the primary benefit of being a PDGA member. I think most people use this site like our own little sportscenter. It would cool if we made this a priority because I want to seriously show off and flex my disc golf muscles by sending my friends and enemies my scores.

Thanks for your consideration!





WORD!

I contacted HQ last week to find out when scoring and the TD admin portion of the site would be back up - as I am currently unable to update pre-registration for my A Tier this weekend. Likewise folks are unable to post their results. HQ told me they expected that function to be up and running later this week. I hope they were correct! :) They did get the member search back up which made my job a lot easier - I'm sure it'll be up soon.

Based on Theo's post this morning on the Conversion thread, I wouldn't plan on seeing much if any pre-reg info online more than a day or two before this weekend. However, it sounds like he might complete the upload process by the time your event is over to post results.

The next ratings update will be published on November 25th, 2008. The submission deadline for Tournament Directors will be Wednesday November 12th, 2008.

Is the 12th date going to be pushed to the right or the 25th date?

There's nothing delaying the ratings. It's independent of the website upgrade projects. All that matters is whether TDs get their reports to Dave by tomorrow.

Tomorrow? Is tomorrow Wednesday the 12th? Or is the deadline Tuesday the 11th?

Deadline is tomorrow. From a practical standpoint, Dave will be processing reports to get them ready for Roger to process this weekend. All those received by the end of the day tomorrow will be processed for sure. Those received after tomorrow may still get processed if Dave has time to also include them by Friday. No guarantee for late reports but we really try to get everything processed if we can.

I sure hope the tournament in Wimberley makes it this weekend because the two tournaments before that were full of lame shots. :D

Deadline is tomorrow. From a practical standpoint, Dave will be processing reports to get them ready for Roger to process this weekend. All those received by the end of the day tomorrow will be processed for sure. Those received after tomorrow may still get processed if Dave has time to also include them by Friday. No guarantee for late reports but we really try to get everything processed if we can.



Just curious ... don't TDs submit the reports online too? If that isn't working won't that impact a TDs ability to submit the reports?

Deadline is tomorrow. From a practical standpoint, Dave will be processing reports to get them ready for Roger to process this weekend. All those received by the end of the day tomorrow will be processed for sure. Those received after tomorrow may still get processed if Dave has time to also include them by Friday. No guarantee for late reports but we really try to get everything processed if we can.



Just curious ... don't TDs submit the reports online too? If that isn't working won't that impact a TDs ability to submit the reports?



TD reports are either e-mailed to Dave or a hard copy printed out and mailed in (with a $25 processing fee). The results are posted by the TD after the tourney as a courtesy to the players by the TD when the website is working. Otherwise it is done when Dave gets time.

I submitted two tournaments last week for the Third Coast Series. The paypal thing isn't working so what do I do to get it paid?

Deadline is tomorrow. From a practical standpoint, Dave will be processing reports to get them ready for Roger to process this weekend. All those received by the end of the day tomorrow will be processed for sure. Those received after tomorrow may still get processed if Dave has time to also include them by Friday. No guarantee for late reports but we really try to get everything processed if we can.



Just curious ... don't TDs submit the reports online too? If that isn't working won't that impact a TDs ability to submit the reports?



TD reports are either e-mailed to Dave or a hard copy printed out and mailed in (with a $25 processing fee). The results are posted by the TD after the tourney as a courtesy to the players by the TD when the website is working. Otherwise it is done when Dave gets time.


That is what I thought. Any options on the table to waive teh $25 processing fee in light of the website piece not working or extending teh deadline for online (free) submittals until afte the website is working? Seems to be that since the PDGA is having issues with the wesite (not the players or TDs fault) they should do something to allow TDs to submitt for free and prior to the deadline.

Waiving the paper processing fee doesn't help the situation with the site's functionality. In fact, it would probably create more hassle via an increased number of paper reports.


TDs can still post scores on the MB.

Paypal payments for TDs is still working. Just not the weblink on the TD report Cover page. I talked with Dave and he said call or email the office and they'll give you the paypal email address. Send the report regardless of the payment issue and it will get processed.

Any options on the table to waive teh $25 processing fee in light of the website piece not working or extending teh deadline for online (free) submittals until afte the website is working? Seems to be that since the PDGA is having issues with the wesite (not the players or TDs fault) they should do something to allow TDs to submitt for free and prior to the deadline.



The TD report and scores upload for the website are two separate things and two separate files. Waiving the fee for the paper reports would actually make the process take longer. TD's will send their reports via e-mail and the scores and ratings will be updated regardless of whether or not the administration upload is fixed on PDGA.com by the 25th.

Any options on the table to waive teh $25 processing fee in light of the website piece not working or extending teh deadline for online (free) submittals until afte the website is working? Seems to be that since the PDGA is having issues with the wesite (not the players or TDs fault) they should do something to allow TDs to submitt for free and prior to the deadline.



The TD report and scores upload for the website are two separate things and two separate files. Waiving the fee for the paper reports would actually make the process take longer. TD's will send their reports via e-mail and the scores and ratings will be updated regardless of whether or not the administration upload is fixed on PDGA.com by the 25th.



Gotcha

If posting the scores if just a "courtesy to the players," what do the players "deserve" when they become a member?

Posting of the scores by the TDs during or just after the event is the 'courtesy' part which is not promised as a PDGA benefit except for maybe NT and Championships. However, the scores will always be posted by the PDGA as part of your member benefits once the report is received and then you get points plus official ratings.

If posting the scores if just a "courtesy to the players," what do the players "deserve" when they become a member?



Posting the scores is not a requirement for TD's. When you see registration information before an event, it is because the TD was nice enough to do it. If you see round scores posted during an event or immediately following an event, it was because the TD was nice enough to do it. Otherwise the players would be waiting until the PDGA office could get it done.

So, posting scores on the web site has nothing to do with what a player might think they "deserve", it has all to do with what the TD is nice enough to do for the players.

Do players "deserve" to be able to play in a tournament? No, players are welcomed to play in a tournament that a TD was willing to give up his time and effort to run for some players.

That brings up a question. What benefits do we get as members?
Don't answer that! It just seems the bang for the buck ratio is a little out of whack. Especially when one of the bangs is nothing more than a courtesy.

If posting the scores if just a "courtesy to the players," what do the players "deserve" when they become a member?







posting scores on the web site has nothing to do with what a player might think they "deserve", it has all to do with what the TD is nice enough to do for the players.

I don't think the discussion has anything to do with the Tournament Director. This has to do with the PDGA and the site. The TD's are paying money to the PDGA in order to host a sanctioned event. For the site to not be working properly, or the players and the TD to not have the opportunities or the choice available to post scores, that falls on the PDGA. Lots of tournaments suffered because the site was down and people were unable to get information for those weekends. In the same respect, its good that the PDGA has been the source for all that information, but at some point the power the PDGA has taken their obligations beyond doing things as a "courtesy" and shifts over to a duty to its members.

It's a courtesy to host a tournament, it's no a "courtesy" when you have to be a PDGA member to play an A-Tier.

I don't want to say the PDGA is bad, lets stay away from that discussion. Can we please at least reconsider the attitude that seeing scores and ratings is just a courtesy. If that is the case, the question then become why do we become members?

Especially when one of the bangs is nothing more than a courtesy.


Perhaps if players felt like TDs could actually make something on running events then maybe they would be more willing to regularly provide the service?

I think this discussion has nothing to do with the Tournament Director. This has to do with the PDGA and their requirements. The TD's are paying money to the PDGA in order to host a sanctioned event. For the site to not be working properly, or the players and the TD to not have the opportunities or the choice available to post scores, that falls on the pdga.

It's a courtesy to host a tournament, it's no a "courtesy" when you have to be a PDGA member to play an A-Tier.

I don't want to say the PDGA is bad, lets stay away from that discussion. Can we please at least consider the attitude that seeing scores and ratings is just a courtesy. If that is the case, the question then become why do we become members?



seconded!

I think this discussion has nothing to do with the Tournament Director. This has to do with the PDGA and their requirements.


The TD chooses to sanction. They are as much or more customers of the PDGA as members. We already ask more of them than members to be our customers. The TD is asked to send the report and the PDGA posts the scores and ratings online per the member benefits indicated. Note that throughout this whole website issue that the PDGA has not reneged on those stated benefits. Results have been posted and official ratings are being processed on schedule. Yes, there was a slight delay in getting to see your ratings for a few weeks but they didn't change for a single member during that time.

If you're talking about tournament uploading and unofficial ratings, that software was all written by volunteers, not by PDGA staffers or contractors. Likewise, those who choose to upload to that system are almost all volunteer TDs. That system and participation by the TDs is totally voluntary except for high tier events and a BONUS to members that's been provided mostly by volunteers with website support from the PDGA. And yet, several posters have felt that this was some benefit they paid for that was temporarily taken away from them.

That's why it's taking Theo, another volunteer, as long as it has to recover this bonus uploading system becasue he has to learn the complicated programming provided by long gone volunteers. There's no other person to do it.

Membership status must be extremely important to the PDGA, as it is the basis for all revenue. no members, no money. we're expected to collect and send in $10 from people who haven't paid their dues, or to deny them entrance into our tournament based on membership status. regardless of who wrote it, the PDGA presented the uploader as a service offering. It's even mentioned as the preferred tool for TDs to use to verify membership and post pre-registration lists. No other usable tool is provided by the PDGA to verify membership (no, a couple-thousand-line spreadsheet does *not* suffice), yet this one is being blown off as unimportant and not part of the PDGA's offering.

It's downright sad that with the amount of money the PDGA makes, they can't hire someone to develop a proper website. Oh wait, I thought they did that...

I believe TDs and members who used PDGAsignup have had no trouble during this website revision other than being able to see who's registered. But then they could and have been posted on the tournament threads. That function was there before the volunteers did the uploading scores thing, and yes, that's taking longer than it should to get re-established.

I believe those functions are now inter-related with the uploading thus complicating things even more for Theo. However, the uploading of scores and unofficial ratings is the part I was addressing that people were primarily complaining about. It would have taken Theo almost as long to explain to a hired pro what needed to be done as it was to just do it in the case of the serpentine scoring/ratings programming.

I would like to say that with all the bells and whistles we expect I was able to get official results sent into the PDGA and pay the dues for two events because instead of complaing I finally sent an email to the PDGA office. Karolyn Garlock has been a huge help over the last several weeks. Getting me information and processing Officials test when we were in a crunch for our 'A' tier in Corpus Christi. I am not a TD I just do part of the work of one.

Pants

Thanks krazyeye, I don't think the PDGA is a bad entitiy, it's just that if the scores and ratings are just a "courtesy", then what do we actually "deserve" with that fee?

it's just that if the scores and ratings are just a "courtesy", then what do we actually "deserve" with that fee?


And when have you not gotten what was promised regarding those items?

I paid something like 40 bucks this year. I guess I have spent at least that many hours on this website. I played the courses in Appling GA. (Yeah non members can play as well but I helped pay for it in my mind) Well worth my 40. Hell how many locals and local pros do not do squat? I enjoy doing something. I guess if I didn't spend it here and at my local course I'd spend it on hookers and drugs.

I played the courses in Appling GA. (Yeah non members can play as well but I helped pay for it in my mind)


Maybe you enjoyed it more?

If the PDGA sees their only obligation is to send us a disc and a sticker, then I guess that makes it a shame on me for becoming a member. I swear I thought it was for more than that.

The PDGA wrote, on the front page of this site, that if we had any suggestions to let it be known. I'm letting it known that scores and ratings are probably the main benefit or "courtesy" that the PDGA offers players. I am hereby asking for them to reconsider their attitude. I appreciate the PDGA sending me a sticker and a laminated card with my different ratings, but mostly that stuff just stays in a drawer. The real and only tangible benefit to being a PDGA member is a rating and online scoring. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy stickers, I'm just saying I enjoy seeing other players scores and rated rounds a lot more.

It is a shame that we have to have volunteers fix the PDGA's problems and that there is no money in the budget after dogtags and worthless laminated cards that are sent to players to keep the players scores and ratings updated, which is the basis for the entire sport. To say that ratings are a courtesy is denying the fact the entire structure to which divisions are played are based on accurate ratings and previous tournament performance.

Here in Louisville, KY one of our longer running tournaments
had a 45% decrease in attendance two weekends ago.

I love disc golf but I feel the pain that these golfers are talking about.
We have hideous ads on the website, a decent chunk of money
coming in every week but no stats. No big deal BUT for three
weeks now we keep getting "just a couple of more days"

My website at my business was hacked. It was a pain in the
side for sure. Cost me about $1500 to fix. I didn't even blink an
eye about hiring a professional. What are you going to do>

Another thing. With this serious lack of service during the final quarter of the year I predict the lowest renewal rate ever for
the PDGA. People around these parts are talking about not
renewing because of this. The renewal rate is way to expensive
anyway.
Take care everyone and happy discing.

The real and only tangible benefit to being a PDGA member is a rating and online scoring. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy stickers, I'm just saying I enjoy seeing other players scores and rated rounds a lot more.



I'll keep asking until you show where the PDGA has not provided those for you?

They have sent me stickers in a timely manner. Unless you consider the 6 month delay it took for me to get my renewal package.

Also, this is straight from the PDGA site on membership..

What does the PDGA accomplish with membership fees?

As a member of the PDGA, your benefits include playing in PDGA sanctioned events at a discounted rate, tracking player points and ratings, subscription to the official PDGA publication, access to the members only DISCussion Board, e-newsletters, Marshals program, becoming a Certified Official/Tournament Director, and more!


The second thing listed is your rating. This is why I started this thread, to ask the PDGA to consider that this is the main and most important reason we are members. I am asking again for the PDGA to make this a priority since it's the main benefit we have to membership.

Again Steve, where have you not gotten your ratings and scores posted when the PDGA received the reports for the events you played?

Chuck,

I have noticed over the last few months you have been defending the PDGA for their good decisions and their bad decisions. I appreciate your previous efforts, because it's very easy for people to always say the PDGA is evil or stupid. I never intended for you to get defensive, there is no need for it. I will say again that I am only having to defend myself because you keep pushing me to say that the PDGA is good or bad. I'm trying to get past that.

I am asking for the PDGA to consider that scoring and ratings is the best, coolest, and most awesome benefit that it offers it's active members. I know I am not alone in wanting them to realize how important timely scoring and ratings are to active players. The PDGA is not evil, I'm not attacking the PDGA, and I'm very thankful for my 8 different ratings cards that are sitting in my desk drawer....

I'm asking someone to consider my suggestion about making this problem a priority, it has been asked for on the front page of this website.

I will say that knowing this problem was sent to a volunteer, makes me rethink my approval of sending Brian to Japan. I was totally down for it because it was a good idea, now that I know it was at the expense of the main benefit of having a membership, it doesn't seem so great.

I know I am not alone in wanting them to realize how important timely scoring and ratings are to active players.



Very true statement. This issue is the hottest topic amongst golfers I know these days.

I am asking for the PDGA to consider that scoring and ratings is the best, coolest, and most awesome benefit that it offers it's active members. I know I am not alone in wanting them to realize how important timely scoring and ratings are to active players.


Ratings are a very high priority and the PDGA has upheld its promise even during this website issue. Other than the few days this discussion Board was down, TDs could post tournament results right here in their discussion thread. Yes, there were a few weeks where you couldn't look up your ratings but no one's rating has changed during that period. Those who really wanted to find someone's rating could look it up in one of the online archive sites and several did. TDs that needed ratings for their events got them if they asked.

The PDGA has posted official event results and updated points when they've gotten them and they do that about every month. The official ratings haven't missed a deadline for about three years now and is sometimes ahead of schedule. For three years, all events that could have been rated have finally been gathered by the PDGA before the end of each of the past three years with the Staff making extra efforts to dog the TDs who were tardy.

Steve, your complaint is that TDs couldn't post event results on the tournament site to produce unofficial ratings. Even if the option was available, we can't force the TDs to upload those scores other than the highest tier events where they've signed an agreement to do so. Many TDs do not upload scores and several who do don't properly set the course layouts so the ratings are more wrong than the "correct" unofficial versions. If we can't make the TDs do it and do it correctly when they do, then the cost for the PDGA can be greater in terms of fixing things that's a "bonus benefit" than it's worth. Wrong unofficial ratings can be worse than none at all.

you cannot classify that as a "bonus benefit" when it's considered by the players (read: "members" or "supporters") to be one of the most intrinsic to the PDGA's value. There is a common phrase that applies here: "Perception is Reality".

It's a bonus benefit when the PDGA can't provide it uniformly to all members. The only thing the PDGA can do is provide the option for TDs to upload scores which in fact has been out of commission for longer than anyone would prefer. However, even if the upload capability were improved, it could still not be a blanket PDGA member benefit so much as another reason for TDs to sanction, same as the prereg display function, which is still missing.

The only thing the PDGA could formally say about uploading is, "The uploading function is provided for TDs to display your event results and unofficial ratings if they wish to upload them and wish to make the effort to set up the course layouts properly." Fortunately in some areas, peer pressure is encouraging more and more TDs to make the uploading effort, so some places get more bonus benefits than others.

Chuck,

Maybe this has been answered before, but what happens between the unofficial ratings and official ratings in terms of calculations? Why not show the official ratings right off the bat? If the official ratings can be changed later if a layout was incorrectly entered anyway, why have unofficial ratings in the first place?

you're not providing it uniformly to all members, you're providing it uniformly to all TDs. There's a big difference. I think you'll agree that TDs work just as hard for the PDGA as anyone else, generating a large amount of money for the PDGA.

I don't disagree. But the original post was about members not getting their benefits, not TDs. However, as pointed out already, the PDGA Discussion Board was mostly available for TDs to post scores and PDGASignup and any other registration source still provided registrations to TDs which they could post on the Discussion Board. Perhaps not as convenient as people were used to but the information could still be made available. This whole experience is kind of like house remodeling projects where the house might still be functional but you have to temporarily do things in a less than convenient or familiar way.

I have a suggestion. Why dont we spend less time talking on the discussion board about a very simple problem. Just work on getting the scores/ratings up in more timely manner.

We're working on over 200 events right now for the update which has nothing to do with getting uploading re-established. And these discussions are not slowing Theo down from doing it, just his volunteer time available.

I could go on and on, but I refuse. For years I have backed up the PDGA when others were bashing it. I guess Chuck, you are just not hearing what the "MEMBERS" are saying. I'm just not sure what to say to an obviously, easy fixable complaint.

I'm not trying to make light of the PDGA struggles in the areas where complaints are legit. I've had to deal with a variety of issues as a volunteer that I wouldn't have had to if the website was back to full function. However, as a contractor who helps provide the PDGA ratings services, I take exception to complaints that members are not receiving their ratings benefits when in fact they are.

At least the new advertiser�s banners are working properly for the most part. If those banners stopped working, I can almost guarantee that would be the first thing fixed.


During this time the PDGA is using the contractors to keep all form of communication open for TD's to send the money in. Or new member MONEY! That is number one. Number 4 would be something like ratings for existing customers or a functioning website that stays up for sometime or bringing a site down before another is fully tested. Ya know the basics.

Gee, when you put it like that...it actually sounds a lot like a good business decision. Hmmmm

The problem will be fixed.

Most things take longer then we want. If it was an easy fix it probably would be done already.

I'm curious about last wekends ratings too.

So ca'monnnnnnn already! :p

Be cynical if you wish but the systems that have been working for fees and memberships were not PDGA systems but those of our primary contractor. At least all of the eggs weren't in one basket. This is probably the only way an org can survive in the hostile environment of the internet and reliance on technology. The core PDGA website was outdated and data services, navigation simplicity and other features that members have wanted for years could not be added to the old site. At some point the big bullet had to be bitten and it finally was. The transition was never going to be pretty under ideal circumstances but unfortunately the timing was rushed due to elements outside their control and we are where we are.

Personally, I understand how we got to where we are. I don't agree with the way we approached it... but I get it.

My concern is with the fact that we need Theo or anyone else to get this stuff done on a volunteer basis. The things being done aren't all that complicated. While they may take a long time for one man to do when he has time, they would not take nearly as long if put before a *group* of people. Whether that group be professional or amateur (*snicker*) is up to the PDGA. I, like many others, am very tired of the "we're working as hard as we can! we're just poor volunteers!" excuse. The PDGA spent a lot of money on the new website, so there should never have been a need for a volunteer to do anything in this project. Spend some money the *right* way for a change, and get some professionals in there to fix this mess!

Along with other like-minded individuals, I offered to help develop new features and functionality for the PDGA website. on a volunteer basis. All we asked was for a little money to fund a development environment. It was a very small sum, especially when compared with the amount spent to get the pros to do the new site. We were turned down coldly. This was at least two years ago.

Now, we have paid something equivalent to a decent year's salary to a firm to build us a new site... but it isn't functional. We are missing many of the key features that made the old PDGA.com worth visiting. My concern is that we have spent all this money to get little more than a prettier, bulkier, slower place to house all the new ads. My concern is that we didn't leverage the countless free hours of work that my group (and likely other groups) offered. My concern is that we spent *good* money on the crap that nobody wanted, and neglected the stuff that lots of people wanted.

Shabookie may be cynical, but at this point I criticize anyone who isn't at least a little bit cynical. This was a bad deal, all around. It does not take this long to get these things done. I could have had it done in a month by myself, from top to bottom. With the help of a few competent individuals, I think we could have had it done in two weeks. We offered to do it for free.

Drupal is open source. Hardware and bandwidth is super-cheap. This is not complicated technology... and internet security is easily and cheaply implemented. So... what did we get for our money? crappy ads and a ridiculous flash page? I would be asking for my money back if that was an option. It isn't, so I'm just asking for my upload page back.

Chuck, What people care about the most is being able to see their score online and see their round ratings "unofficial" or "official" in a timely matter from tournaments. The site being down has no affect on the yearly rating, and no one really cares about that as much as they do their ratings from the individual rounds. Yes, the PDGA will update the ratings a few times a year, but THE MOST FUNCTIONAL AND MOST BENEFICIAL BENEFIT THE PDGA HAS IS THE ABILITY TO SEE SCORING AND SEE THE RATINGS FROM THE ROUNDS. The PDGA has the option to accept this, or argue with it. Yes, it's up to the TD to post them, but most TD's know their clientele, and it is clientele, want to see their rounds posted, ASAP.

You started the discussion out saying that these features are just a courtesy, now you are saying they are the most important issue. Eitherway, I'm telling you that the most important benefit, as listed on this site, is the round ratings and score posting. What you are saying in return is that those features are a priority, but not enough to spend money on .

I feel like I've taken crazy pills here.

I don't say much and won't be renewing next year for a variety of reasons and won't have a voice on the message boards.

The defensive posture taken in this thread is frustrating to say the least. Sometimes we just have to admit that the organization screwed up.

Sure the PDGA will have the scores in and the next rating update will arrive on time or even early. So technically the PDGA will live up to it's promise.

However there are a lot of members that thrive on seeing their scores, ranking, and unofficial ratings in a timely manner. There is a lot of "positive" peer pressure placed on TDs to get this stuff up as quickly as possible. We live with Iphones, Blackberrys, Facebook, and Twitter. People expect information faster today than they did just a couple of years ago.

Players have come to expect this from TDs in the two areas I have lived and played in the last four years, NC and TX. If the TDs are tardy with the info the catch a lot of crap from the locals that have their cell number.

It would be nice if the PDGA could spend a few bucks to get the upload page up and running again simply because the people who fund the PDGA through memberships and tourney fees feel it is important.

I However, as a contractor who helps provide the PDGA ratings services




so are you contracted or a volunteer??????


whether you want to defend the original point to absurdity or not, this is what the membership wants. I find it hard to believe that with all the revenue coming in ($75 a head for me to renew, the $3 the the pdga makes per person on all the tourneys per wknd) that we couldnt hire someone to get this thing fixed quickly. and the comment about takin longer to tell someone about how to do it than just fix it yourself---would it have taken 1.5-2 months to explain it------I Highly doubt it. I am not seeing the return on my$75 and am highly debating on renewing next year after 10 years of being a member.

No wonder the Southern Nationals and other series are becoming more popular--- and yes I started in Southern National land.

Some of the comments on defending this and other comments made really make me wonder :confused: :mad:

The Old site was much better imo, sometimes simpler is better.

and Yeah I have noticed the SN getting more popular, Much easier to run a SN event, and its a all volunteer organization and gets things done much faster imo.

Whatever happened to loyalty??? You guys should be patient, we all learn from our mistakes...
What about all the times you got on this site and it worked properly? Sound like a bunch of whiners, i am sure the same guys who look for things to complain about...
You cant compare the PDGA to SN...
We had an a tier last month and I think the website problems cost us about 20 to 30 registrations, but nothing is gained by bashing the PDGA. Had to upgrade at sometime...

mikey you are still new to the PDGA so you will learn. there are alot of folks who wonder what the members get by being part of the PDGA and if you say ratings and I can look online to see who is playing in a tournament or the scores. you are sadly mistaken. :confused:

loyalty? seriously? If you go to your local Wal-Mart and they have no products in stock besides a few rancid pieces of lunchmeat and a bicycle with one broken wheel, do you just say that we all learn from our mistakes and you'll stay loyal to Wal-Mart?

also - "had to upgrade at sometime" is crap. This upgrade could have been done the right way. They have been "working on it" as long as I can remember. I make my living by handling projects like this "upgrade", and I'd have run out of customers a long time ago if I let things go this terribly.

The PDGA is a business that provides services. It isn't a club or fraternity or brotherhood. It's a self-appointed government that is doing a bad job of spending our tax money. I don't think SN is doing things much better (especially after attending the SN Am Championships this year), but we cannot sit idly by and allow the PDGA to continue screwing things up. If we don't complain and voice our opinions, how will anyone know what's most important to us (the members)? How will anything ever get fixed?

Loyalty? I have very little reason to be loyal to this organization. I play enough events to make it cost effective and I post on this message board. Other than that I do not like what they are doing. $10 non-member fee for a c-tier is crazy. The magazine is failing. I'll never make it to the headquarters where they appear to have spent our money. I don't play to my rating rendering it useless. A novice division?

The TD chooses to sanction. They are as much or more customers of the PDGA as members.



this seems backwards to me. so the tds are buying sanctioning/legitamcy from the pdga, that is why they are customers?

seems more like they are unpaid employees or sales reps most of the time, the pdga would be nothing without them. maybe they both need each other, but i can see why the loudest critics of the pdga are the TDs. (except for chuck of course ;))

TDs use more services provided by the PDGA than members. TDs sanction because members want some of those services like posted event results and ratings. The current website delays are impacting TDs more than members at this point from a convenience standpoint which is unfortunate.

I don't know what the decision process was for Theo doing some of this critical work versus a hired professional who could work on it fulltime. All I can say sitting on the sidelines like everyone else is there must have been some reason that the dozen or more staff and Board members decided this route had to be taken, likely for financial reasons, knowing that they would be pounded by critics for the delays. I can't imagine Brian choosing this route unless it was necessary. Every week during these problems, they had the opportunity to change course, throw money at the problem by hiring professionals to speed things up, and yet they haven't. You don't think Brian would have tried to get things done faster if he could possibly have done so? Why would you think our leaders would deliberately do things to undermine the functioning and credibility of the PDGA? What's in it for them? Seriously.

But apparently some of the peanut gallery looking from the outside "knows" it could have been done better under the assumption the PDGA can just write checks to cover it. The PDGA can't print money to cover any shortfall the way the U.S. government can bail out of problems.

Loyalty? I have very little reason to be loyal to this organization. I play enough events to make it cost effective and I post on this message board. Other than that I do not like what they are doing. $10 non-member fee for a c-tier is crazy. The magazine is failing. I'll never make it to the headquarters where they appear to have spent our money. I don't play to my rating rendering it useless. A novice division?



A few years back, I got into organized sailing. The first event / regatta I went to required all participants to pay a $15 fee to the national organization in order to enter. This is not out of the ordinary. The notion that you can play in a sanctioned event without being a member of the sanctioning body AT ALL is what's crazy.

Are you guys serious? Having immediate results and ratings posted is why you are members? Get a grip on yourselves!!

I spent the first 15 years of being a member eagerly awaiting the quarterly newsletter in order to get ANY results AT ALL!! Talk about a bunch of spoiled children. WOW

Speaking of $$$, where's the budget located these days? And the BOD minutes? Can't find them w/ the search function...

TDs sanction for two reasons: players want pdga ratings, and for insurance.

if players did not want pdga ratings and there was a cheap alternative for insurance.... hahaha, how many more times would we send our event tithings in?

the longer they screw up with the website conversion, the greater the opportunity for an alternative. and that this is happening at renewal time makes it all the more hilarious.

A few years back, I got into organized sailing. The first event / regatta I went to required all participants to pay a $15 fee to the national organization in order to enter.

Talk about a bunch of spoiled children. WOW



Sailing is not a cheep/free hobby, disc golf is. Be nice with the name calling...

TDs sanction for two reasons: players want pdga ratings, and for insurance.

if players did not want pdga ratings and there was a cheap alternative for insurance.... hahaha, how many more times would we send our event tithings in?

the longer they screw up with the website conversion, the greater the opportunity for an alternative. and that this is happening at renewal time makes it all the more hilarious.



some would say insurance is the only reason...

really??? i'm not doubting you... i just hadnt heard that one around here yet. if insurance is the only reason, then ... yikes...

I run a few events per year. it's far cheaper for me to purchase an umbrella insurance policy for all my events than to purchase the PDGA insurance. So, I've stopped doing that. Ratings are now the only reason I sanction.

Ratings are now the only reason I sanction

which in my opinion is crazy. sanctioning should give you more then that. hell the last sacntioned event I ran I did not even get the TD package at all. :confused:

J D

I tried to send you a PM.
got:"This user has exceeded their private message quota and may not receive any new private messages."

check your email on dgportal, thanks

steve timm

The thread started as a request to make this a high priority. What happened after that turned into a train wreck.

1. The Players use the weekly updates and scores and ratings the most.

the reply...

Ratings and scores are just a courtesy.

2. What do we "deserve" with a membership?

the reply...

You get stickers and dog tags.

3. Most people really only care about seeings scores and round ratings.

the reply

The PDGA has made this the highest priority.

4. If it is a high priority, why was this done last?

the reply...

Because there is no money.

5. How much did it cost to produce the Worlds DVD and fly to Japan?

the reply....

A lot.

really??? i'm not doubting you... i just hadnt heard that one around here yet. if insurance is the only reason, then ... yikes...



i'm in a bit of an unusual spot- there is huge demand for my event (filled in 4 hours 5 months in advance of event last year)- i have no doubt at all it would fill unsanctioned. however it's held on a private course on a farm- our farm insurance covers daily play as long as we don't charge anything but won't cover anything where there's $ involved. thus i feel the insurance is my only real motivation to sanction- i haven't found a weekend policy which is as cheap as sanctioning as a c tier and buying the pdga insurance.

steve, i'll prolly get in a tub of hot water for this one... but consider this: the PDGA has a paid staff to maintain their courses. the $XXX your local tournament sent in pays for the staff to maintain those courses. i'd be willing to bet that many active clubs send more to the PDGA than they spend on improvements on their local course(s). the pdga's value proposition is rapidly slipping out of synch with reality.

steve, i'll prolly get in a tub of hot water for this one... but consider this: the PDGA has a paid staff to maintain their courses. the $XXX your local tournament sent in pays for the staff to maintain those courses. i'd be willing to bet that many active clubs send more to the PDGA than they spend on improvements on their local course(s). the pdga's value proposition is rapidly slipping out of synch with reality.




someone put that man on the board, he has vision

steve, i'll prolly get in a tub of hot water for this one... but consider this: the PDGA has a paid staff to maintain their courses. the $XXX your local tournament sent in pays for the staff to maintain those courses. i'd be willing to bet that many active clubs send more to the PDGA than they spend on improvements on their local course(s). the pdga's value proposition is rapidly slipping out of synch with reality.



WOW... Can I send them my money now ?

Seems like the proverbial bullet hole in the foot of the PDGA is bleeding out .

Really there is a TD package? I took care of sanctioning two events the same weekend in August and got nothing mailed to my house at all..

Why should I bother writing what I always write on these threads.
Gonna have to start over soon. The hall of fame... The membership dues... the benefits...The lack of proper planning... the failed....

Really there is a TD package

yes it usually has pdga stickers, who is current, $10 non current member forme to encourage them to join, rule books to hand out to new players. I think I few other things but cant remember since I did not get one this year. :confused:

Here's the TD resource page with some of the items in the TD packet:
www.pdga.com/tdinfo/resources (http://www.pdga.com/tdinfo/resources)

They're pointing the finger at the Post Office. Or they're gonna say you gave them the wrong address. Don't expect them to make it right unless you tell them how.

I really have no problems with the PDGA whatsoever.
I don't have a problem with where they are using money.
I can be just a little patient for a website conversion (no ones gonna die if they cant access the site for a week or two.)

I say keep doin what your doin, and don't pay attention to the few people on here who will criticize you no matter how you do things.

yeah, don't pay attention to the TDs or other members. good plan ;)

Seems like a lot more than just a few people to me.

"No ones gonna die if they can't access the site for a week or two" Man, this has been going on for a while now.

Sailing is not a cheep/free hobby, disc golf is. Be nice with the name calling...



As a hobby, DG is still pretty much free - anyone who wants can get a couple of discs for cheap (or could probably find someone to donate an old crappy one) and find a free course.

But as a competition, should you choose to do it, it isn't free, nor should it be. If you are on the PBA tour, you pay your fee, even if it is a PBA-related amateur-tournament. And bowling is a relatively cheap sport.

Craig's point is valid, even if it sounds vaguely "We had to walk uphill both ways through six feet of snow wearing sponges on our feet ..."

Sailing is not a cheep/free hobby, disc golf is. Be nice with the name calling...



We belonged to a sailing club associated with the UW - boats were free to use - so in essence it was even cheaper than DG.

As for name calling - if the shoe fits............ go back and read the thread - an awful lot of waaaaaaa in there.

Patience grasshopper and finely crafted bait - catches you a fish you might be proud of. Stinky chicken livers left out in the sun catch you big nasty catfish you'd be better off not eating - although it will get you a good fight. How you fish is your choice.

It may be better for PDGA TDs to pay their fees at the end of the year and only pay for services provided. That may cause the folks at HQ to put in extra effort in order to maximize the payment.

is there a way to put the PDGA BOD on probation?

Sailing is not a cheep/free hobby, disc golf is. Be nice with the name calling...



We belonged to a sailing club associated with the UW - boats were free to use - so in essence it was even cheaper than DG.

As for name calling - if the shoe fits............ go back and read the thread - an awful lot of waaaaaaa in there.

Patience grasshopper and finely crafted bait - catches you a fish you might be proud of. Stinky chicken livers left out in the sun catch you big nasty catfish you'd be better off not eating - although it will get you a good fight. How you fish is your choice.



WHATS WRONG WITH CATFISH????????????????????

I LUV ME SUM CATFISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but seriously...ive gotten into with chuck about other issues regarding the pdga and it never goes anywhere with him!

if you are looking for results you are talking to the wrong person...he bleeds pdga colors for life!!!!!

nothing wrong with that, but our complaints are falling on deaf ears! i agree with the members on this site saying ...ratings by round is a very important issue on our minds! is it the most important thing...maybe so! but for sure its the most obvious thing missing! the pdga as a whole does provide a SERVICE to its CUSTOMERS, but when that level of SERVICE is not met, what is a CUSTOMER to do? i know what happens when i go to a restaurant that doesnt provide good SERVICE! am i saying i wont join next year? NO! i will! but chucks talking for an entire organization, acting as if they have a monopoly on the market! which is almost true! but.....without renewals what will the pdga do? i enjoy looking at the ratings for each tournament as much as the next guy, and i understand, that it must be a lot harder to fix that anyone imagined, but all stevin and the rest of us are trying to say is, this IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT REASONS WE ARE PDGA MEMBERS!

SO CHUCK, PLEASE JUST HEAR US! not that you arent doing all you can do, but just hear us!!!!!!!!!! and acknowledge the fact that this is taking too much time!!!!!

ummm.... it's fixed- td's can load results and registration.

thank you theo et al.

I hear your pain and fortunately it looks like Theo got it fixed today. I should be flattered that players want ratings so bad that even potentially suspect unofficial ratings are preferred over none at all until the official ones come out. Looks like over 200 events will be included in this upcoming official ratings update which is currently on schedule for Nov 25th.

All I tried to do was explain the two independent parts of the ratings process to Steve and others but all anyone wanted hear was that it was all part of the same mess and it wasn't working. The official ratings part and PDGA commitment to members was mostly working (some TDs apparently weren't getting packets) and had been working all thru this. I'm responsible for much of the official ratings part.

The unofficial ratings part was not working, complicated to fix nor was I capable of fixing it, and dragged on and on. Not only was I taking the heat for what I couldn't fix, but even when uploading is working like it is now, the PDGA and I take the heat for the TDs not uploading, uploading without course assignments or not doing course assignments properly. Neither I nor the PDGA staff can fix these things nor guarantee good results for members without the help of the TDs, or using the buzzword that's been tossed around here, at the "courtesy" of the TDs. And we definitely appreciate all of the TDs that have tried hard to upload quickly and well and I'm sure their players appreciate it, too.

are they going to update the message board also? we need more emoticons, one for i am being totally serious /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif and one for i am being sarcastic incase you cant tell :mad:and one for i am smiling while i AM SAYING THIS GOSH DARNIT! :D we need them for all the subtlety that is needed on a board that causes confusion and mis/overreaction that would other wise be avoided in personal conversation. but i could just be being sarcastic right now, you'll never know :p

There will be a new Discussion Board once they figure out what will work best with the new site. I'm thinking more emoticons is one of the key criteria... :D

WHATS WRONG WITH CATFISH????????????????????

I LUV ME SUM CATFISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nothing wrong w/catfish, but eating the big fat ones usually is'nt so tasty - they been eatin too much garbage/sludge on the bottom.

I'm running an ATier this weekend - I really needed access to the admin portion of the site over the past couple weeks. I emailed HQearly last week, and was told to expect it to be working near the end of this week - and gee guess what IT IS!!!

A little patience and a little tolerance go a long way towards alleviating your stress levels.

TELL ALL THE VOLUNTEERS THANK YOU FOR MAKING PROGRESS WITH THE SITE!!!

Hopefully the Death Star will be fully operational shortly!

I hear your pain and fortunately it looks like Theo got it fixed today. I should be flattered that players want ratings so bad that even potentially suspect unofficial ratings are preferred over none at all until the official ones come out. Looks like over 200 events will be included in this upcoming official ratings update which is currently on schedule for Nov 25th.

All I tried to do was explain the two independent parts of the ratings process to Steve and others but all anyone wanted hear was that it was all part of the same mess and it wasn't working. The official ratings part and PDGA commitment to members was mostly working (some TDs apparently weren't getting packets) and had been working all thru this. I'm responsible for much of the official ratings part.

The unofficial ratings part was not working, complicated to fix nor was I capable of fixing it, and dragged on and on. Not only was I taking the heat for what I couldn't fix, but even when uploading is working like it is now, the PDGA and I take the heat for the TDs not uploading, uploading without course assignments or not doing course assignments properly. Neither I nor the PDGA staff can fix these things nor guarantee good results for members without the help of the TDs, or using the buzzword that's been tossed around here, at the "courtesy" of the TDs. And we definitely appreciate all of the TDs that have tried hard to upload quickly and well and I'm sure their players appreciate it, too.



I know the pdga does what it can! i hope everyone knows that the pdga isnt a multi-billion or even multi-million dollar corporation but a simple web site change or even the developement of a totally new web site shouldnt take as long as it has! our local club just finished a new bad a-- web site and it was done by the club memebers and it didnt take this long lol! go ADGA and mr pat brenner!

new issue: is the pdga's new site going to have the date that the next ratings update will be available? i know the next is 11/25 but just for future reference.

also is the function for being able to search members by pts total and rating by state going to be still available?

how is one supposed to see the round ratings or is that not fixed yet? it doesnt have the display on the page or am i just not looking hard enuf?

how is one supposed to see the round ratings or is that not fixed yet? it doesnt have the display on the page or am i just not looking hard enuf?



if it was a recent event the temporary unofficial ratings have probably been taken down as the td report was processed and the new official ratings won't be up until the 25th. that is the case for the event i uploaded yesterday. if you go back and look at older events the round ratings are available. this is the way the process has always worked.

I was looking for the VPO and saw the same thing :DBye the way way to get things done Philip one post from you and the problem was fixed!

new issue: is the pdga's new site going to have the date that the next ratings update will be available? i know the next is 11/25 but just for future reference.

also is the function for being able to search members by pts total and rating by state going to be still available?


It's been on the front page for over a week now, just not in red type. It's under Official PDGA Announcements.

Theo said most functions we had before will be reinstated at some point. And then they'll move forward with planned improvements.

know the pdga does what it can! i hope everyone knows that the pdga isnt a multi-billion or even multi-million dollar corporation but a simple web site change or even the developement of a totally new web site shouldnt take as long as it has!



and dont forget Not for Profit ;)


roll tide, they need water in lubbock

new issue: is the pdga's new site going to have the date that the next ratings update will be available? i know the next is 11/25 but just for future reference.

also is the function for being able to search members by pts total and rating by state going to be still available?


It's been on the front page for over a week now, just not in red type. It's under Official PDGA Announcements.

Theo said most functions we had before will be reinstated at some point. And then they'll move forward with planned improvements.



THANKS! so its just not posted on the page as we are all used to! thats cool just need to know where to look! thanks chuck!

roll tide, they need water in lubbock

[/QUOTE]

well i hope they have their wet suits on cuz its gonna flood!!!!!!!

Good God Phillip is my inspiration.

tee hee :p

Good God Phillip is my inspiration.



And cue this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrIqvol0P4

Good God Phillip is my inspiration.



And cue this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxQhx4t1FmE



I can see it.

you tube is blocked at me work, but i bet it has something to do with the windy city

Not so much on the windy.

you bring feeling to my life

wow that guy was a train wreck!!!!!!!

wow that guy was a train wreck!!!!!!!



Naa, Bucky is only like that when he drinks.

wow that guy was a train wreck!!!!!!!



Naa, Bucky is only like that when he drinks.



http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/okcacehole/buckygarrett.jpg

My son was 18 when he passed his officials' test ($10) but the PDGA never sent him an officials card. This has been over a year ago. How difficult is this? I passed mine in June and Karolyn was very accommodating in getting it graded quickly. I haven't received an officials' card either. Not a big thing, but it's the thought that counts.

On the other hand, Addie fixed me up with a nice care package that I used as special CTP prizes for non-PDGA members here, of which there are MANY.

Sort of a thumbs down-thumbs up post, I guess.

rWc3523

(And please, don't waste your time with the "what have you done for disc golf" responses. I've done plenty)