Predator or Monster??? Why?
Sidearm? BackHand? Windy?
Thumber?

Firebird.

pred---like a beefier teebird. great glide and not such a hard fade for an overstable disc

Pred:

Better glide, fights into the wind better, true stable. Longer and faster than the firebird, definitely the most versatile overstable driver on the market

Its unusual, with the way I throw the Pred flies identical to my Monster on forehands, but distinctly more stable on backhands. I throw old pearly champ monsters, by the way.

Pred:

Better glide, fights into the wind better, true stable. Longer and faster than the firebird, definitely the most versatile overstable driver on the market



This is pretty much how I feel. When I started playing I learned Banshees and Firebirds as my overstable drivers. In CE and Pro-line plastics the Firebird was great. Fast, overstable, and with decent glide. Soon after that Champion Firebirds were different. Must have been the plastic, but they were coming out really blunt-nosed which made them slow and overstable. They didn't go as far and they got pushed around by the wind.

I started messing with other discs because these new Firebirds weren't working like the old ones did. I started throwing the Monster and I also tried the Predator. The Z Pred I happened to buy at the time was an unusual run of stable rather than overstable Preds. It flew like a slower Orc, so I stuck with the Monster. I never really grooved the Monster and I ended up trying Speed Demons and Spirits. I liked their overstability, but I hated the plastics b/c they were slick and not as durable as I was used to. I don't like my overstable disc to "season" fast at all. About this time Star plastic came out. The Star Firebird was a dream at first. It had speed, overstability, and some of the glide of the older Firebirds. I hit 2 aces in one week with my first Star Firebird. Unfortunately after a month or so of heavy use (my home course is hyzer heaven) it started to flip up and come back late. This was disappointing. I throw almost 1/2 my drives on my home course with my overstable disc and most of those holes are deuce or die. I didn't want to constantly be breaking discs in/adding new ones when it came to my pure overstable driver.

I started messing with a Predator. At first I did not like it too much. When thrown completely flat or turned over it would sometimes drift to the right a bit before coming back. A true overstable Firebird just holds and comes back. It also got more lift out of my hand and bigger, higher, skips. This created a bit of a learning curve which was frustrating because you want to get 2's on the hyzer holes every time. In a short time I began to appreciate these differences. I found that you could throw the Pred much farther on a very predictable anhyzer flex shot. The lift out of my hand meant I could throw using less power and aiming lower and get great flights. I learned a slight hyzer release rather than completely flat, which has made a lot of my throws more consistant--it is better to throw a hyzer shot with hyzer rather than relying on an overstable disc to stall and fade. I remember Feldberg talking about this same thing in the FDM article.

Anyway, I kept the Pred in the bag and it has been there for the last 2 years. The plastic is great and it takes over a year to break in to where a Star Firebird would be in a month. I throw it backhand, forehand, and overhand and it is my most predictable disc for each of those throws.

Isn't a firebird closer to a pred than a monster?
The larger more rounded nose on the monster seems like it would make it a much slower disc with not as much glide/penetration!

The one thing I always hear from our sponsored players is Gateway has 2 discs that the other 2 don't have, those being the Spirit and Blaze.
While I'll admit some runs of the E Spirits?speed Demons are more durable and grippy than others, theres not much better into a headwind for a top pro than a perfectly seasoned NIKE Spirit or Speed demon.
Personally I felt the softer flight plate/firm rimmed Nike Spirits/Speed Demons were too over stable for most, so we tried making them a bit domier for those who didnt have all the speed and rotation needed to make this disc fly a long way.
Watching Justin, Shawn, John E, George, Double G and Nikko out drive just about everyone for the last few years into a headwind with the Nike spirits, I have decided to just go with the flow and produce similar runs to the Nike Spirits again regardless of how overstable I think they are!.
By out drive, I mean control and distance into headwinds and for those how become one with a Spirit and tame it, they know what this means for your game!

I also used to be a huge Firebird person and tyred a Flick one day and have never looked back! These are the best for forehand thumber and backhand shots and the Z plastic keeps its stability for a long time! But if I had to choose it would be the Pred!

pred---like a beefier teebird. great glide and not such a hard fade for an overstable disc


Yup. Also, Z-Pred's are my upshot SA/flick disc of choice.

A beat-in X-Pred is a heckuva flier...too bad they were disc-ontinued.

Isn't a firebird closer to a pred than a monster?
The larger more rounded nose on the monster seems like it would make it a much slower disc with not as much glide/penetration!

The one thing I always hear from our sponsored players is Gateway has 2 discs that the other 2 don't have, those being the Spirit and Blaze.
While I'll admit some runs of the E Spirits?speed Demons are more durable and grippy than others, theres not much better into a headwind for a top pro than a perfectly seasoned NIKE Spirit or Speed demon.
Personally I felt the softer flight plate/firm rimmed Nike Spirits/Speed Demons were too over stable for most, so we tried making them a bit domier for those who didnt have all the speed and rotation needed to make this disc fly a long way.
Watching Justin, Shawn, John E, George, Double G and Nikko out drive just about everyone for the last few years into a headwind with the Nike spirits, I have decided to just go with the flow and produce similar runs to the Nike Spirits again regardless of how overstable I think they are!.
By out drive, I mean control and distance into headwinds and for those how become one with a Spirit and tame it, they know what this means for your game!



Yeah! I've been hoping for this for years! Flood the market with Nike plastic and the Spirit will be a real contender for the best overstable disc. The Spirit is a great mold, but for me personally the grip is too shallow, case closed. This is why I like the Predator, because the deep grip feels very comfortable to me, where the shallowness of both the Spirit and the Flick don't work for my hands.

Isn't a firebird closer to a pred than a monster?
The larger more rounded nose on the monster seems like it would make it a much slower disc with not as much glide/penetration!

The one thing I always hear from our sponsored players is Gateway has 2 discs that the other 2 don't have, those being the Spirit and Blaze.
While I'll admit some runs of the E Spirits?speed Demons are more durable and grippy than others, theres not much better into a headwind for a top pro than a perfectly seasoned NIKE Spirit or Speed demon.
Personally I felt the softer flight plate/firm rimmed Nike Spirits/Speed Demons were too over stable for most, so we tried making them a bit domier for those who didnt have all the speed and rotation needed to make this disc fly a long way.
Watching Justin, Shawn, John E, George, Double G and Nikko out drive just about everyone for the last few years into a headwind with the Nike spirits, I have decided to just go with the flow and produce similar runs to the Nike Spirits again regardless of how overstable I think they are!.
By out drive, I mean control and distance into headwinds and for those how become one with a Spirit and tame it, they know what this means for your game!



Yes, for my money the firebird and pred are very similar with the pred being better into the headwind.

Regarding your gateway discs, I like he flight but they get beat up to easily, do you have any plans to come out with an Elite Z/champion caliber plastic?

NIKE! Make it all Nike! If all the Gateway molds were in Nike and redily available, I'd have a lot more of it in my bag

Isn't a firebird closer to a pred than a monster?
The larger more rounded nose on the monster seems like it would make it a much slower disc with not as much glide/penetration!

The one thing I always hear from our sponsored players is Gateway has 2 discs that the other 2 don't have, those being the Spirit and Blaze.
While I'll admit some runs of the E Spirits?speed Demons are more durable and grippy than others, theres not much better into a headwind for a top pro than a perfectly seasoned NIKE Spirit or Speed demon.
Personally I felt the softer flight plate/firm rimmed Nike Spirits/Speed Demons were too over stable for most, so we tried making them a bit domier for those who didnt have all the speed and rotation needed to make this disc fly a long way.
Watching Justin, Shawn, John E, George, Double G and Nikko out drive just about everyone for the last few years into a headwind with the Nike spirits, I have decided to just go with the flow and produce similar runs to the Nike Spirits again regardless of how overstable I think they are!.
By out drive, I mean control and distance into headwinds and for those how become one with a Spirit and tame it, they know what this means for your game!



Yes, for my money the firebird and pred are very similar with the pred being better into the headwind.

Regarding your gateway discs, I like he flight but they get beat up to easily, do you have any plans to come out with an Elite Z/champion caliber plastic?



The Nike plastic is like Z/Champion.

I am super psyched to hear that the spirits are going to be run again in Nike plastic. I love the spirit as an overstable driver, it is definitely one of the fastest overstable drivers on the market. It doesn't seem to be as versatile as the predator but it definitely has better penetration into the wind.

the only thing I don't like about the spirit is the shallow grip makes it hard to get a clean release on flicks.

again, thanks guys and discspeed. i will try my new Pred and hope to improve my consistant overstable game...

again, thanks guys and discspeed.



Are you questioning my manhood? :D

NIKE! Make it all Nike! If all the Gateway molds were in Nike and redily available, I'd have a lot more of it in my bag



I have to agree here!!

i find a hole lot more preditors in the ponds and creeks than i do monsters.
that could be a result of the preditors being less stable therefore they are not making the turns back to the banks as well.

lol, thats funny discspeed,
well i threw the Pred, Boss, Star Wraith, Champ XC all in a good 15-20mph head today.
Pred was great, trust worthy, accurate, Great....
Champ XC, wow, it acted like there was no wind WOW, nice Pred accurate, trust, Champ XC still got mad D into wind.
Star Wraith (new) incredibly stable and consistant into wind, I was inpressed, would only throw if i had to, but cool to know.
the boss, (ch DF Boss) flew further than XC, it made me nervous with playing with the OB before coming back, but man it still flew....

A Pred is a nice disc to use for a head wind.
Now i like to use the flick for a head wind but the distance has to be 300-350.
Now for disctance in a head wind i would use my First run Force"Pink".

i find a hole lot more preditors in the ponds and creeks than i do monsters.
that could be a result of the preditors being less stable therefore they are not making the turns back to the banks as well.



more people throw preds than monster...

i find a hole lot more preditors in the ponds and creeks than i do monsters.
that could be a result of the preditors being less stable therefore they are not making the turns back to the banks as well.



more people throw preds than monster...



I agree. I think that the Predator has stood the test of time more than the Monster. Since the Monster was released Innova has produced several newer discs that can easily be used in its place and the Firebird has always been more popular. The Monster has also went through X and L mold tweakings and has all but lost its identity. I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that the Monster will be discontinued in the coming years. I still think the Predator is Discraft's gem--their most consistant and useful driver. The Flick has its own following, but I don't think it has seduced many Pred throwers. Many newbies overlook the Predator in lieu of Forces and Venoms, but as they gain power they often find themselves with a Predator in their hands (especially if they play with me :D).

I recently lost my main driver, an ESP Predator, and ended up replacing it with a Z-Crush. I can't belive how similiar it flies, yet better. Particularly for S-shots. With the pred, you always run the risk of it going straighter than you intend. The problem with crushes are that the different runs can bee quite different. Fortunatelly I know a treacherous fellow who has an impressive stack of these magic ones. Sadly, I lost the darn crush after throwing it for only a couple of weeks. Lost it on what appeared to be a 400ft park job in several feet of leaves...

I played in a tournament this last weekend and no matter where the wind was I threw my Stable force the every time just along with the Z Flash!

I played in a tournament this last weekend and no matter where the wind was I threw my Stable force the every time just along with the Z Flash!



Sounds like we throw a lot alike ... I go with Preds and Flashes.

I used to be Preds and Flashes as well but now that I have some crazy overstable Forces I don't throw my Pred as much as I used to.

I still use them on shorter hyzer shots and forehand but the overstable Forces go about 40' further on the exact same line.

I use ESP Flashes instead of Z's

I use esp forces but have not tried the esp flash even though I have heard great things about them still like the way z plastic beats up! I do agree about the lack of use for a predator when you have the overstable Force in the bag :D

ok guys and Discspeed, ive waited for a day like this. a constant 30 mph wind, with guts up to 40. i know this is crazy but. growing up on the coast Im used to it. While other rec guys were scrammin for their cars, I was walking to the teebox... i wanted to prove thr Pred wrong and put back my Monster....
Well hole 5 I chained brooklyn a 275 foot hyzer with the Pred, Next hole I skipped and hit the basket at 250 ft hyzer...needless to say the Preds the bomb and has won a spot in the bag...by by Monster...
then into a right to left 25mph wind, I chained in mid air a 416 foot s shot with my Star Wraith, WOW, thanks Discpeed...for the advice, you know what your talking about, even if i question your masculinity....j/k LOL...thanks man and Dudes

hey Discpeed, one more time, whats your bag set up? thanks
and the Boss defintely did not like a good head wind, but the star wraith held its own.
and wow, The Ch XC was freaking amazing into a head wind, i drove as far as i can with a star wraith into a crazy head wind with the XC, it acted like there was no wind...wow what a disc, who needs a gateway speed demon, spirit, throw a champ XC...

Putters--Warlocks for throwing, and I've been putting with the new Voodoo.
Mids--Meteor & Buzzes
Fairway Drivers--Star Teebirds, Z Preds, and a Monarch
Distance Drivers--Wraith, Bosses, and Champion XC

I am super psyched to hear that the spirits are going to be run again in Nike plastic. I love the spirit as an overstable driver, it is definitely one of the fastest overstable drivers on the market. It doesn't seem to be as versatile as the predator but it definitely has better penetration into the wind.

the only thing I don't like about the spirit is the shallow grip makes it hard to get a clean release on flicks.




beat one up and you will think they are versatile. They make great Anni Drivers!!

Pred seems to be a great disc, more predictable than monster