I thought this topic needed its own thread. See the first parts of the discussion in the "Which has the greatest Basket Catching Ability? - The best basket around." thread.

I'll throw out a question: How much smaller should baskets be? What percent of putts that would be good on today's baskets should go in with smaller baskets?

I think this is a question that would need field testing rather than just a random question... or at least a few details like the dimensions of current baskets and the diameter of discs, so people would have a place to start speculating from.

I personally think that some more innovative baskets could make the game more exciting. Or perhaps some obstacles...

There is a great hole at the Tiki Course at The Grange (hole 9?) where the basket is right in front of what appears to be a buried half-sphere of metal bars. The bars will allow a disc to pass through, but it is very, very hard to putt in the basket if you overshoot or go to the sides (does someone have a pic? -- I wish I did)... it is a quick way of encouraging placement and increasing risk/reward.

It's not a smaller basket, but falls inside the same kind of discussion of ways to make the game more challenging.

For instance, I could easily imagine half-baskets... where if you drove to the correct side, you had an easy putt, but from the back, you have a touch lob-putt to try to catch and drop in the exposed sides. The farther around to the front you are, the easier your drive...

I know many folks may consider this a bastardization of the sport, but I don't think disc golf has been around long enough for us to constrain ourselves too narrowly to new ideas. There are lots of ways baskets could evolve to make courses -- especially courses without optimal land -- more exciting/challenging to play.

Dr. Fred's directional baskets would work. I think that the solution for existing baskets could be removing the outer chains and keeping the inner chains with the basket itself staying the same size.

I think that the solution for existing baskets could be removing the outer chains and keeping the inner chains with the basket itself staying the same size.



I think that is an excellent idea to try out.

Has anybody tried playing/putting on the Gateway Bullseye baskets? They should almost be the same thing or are they more narrow?

For practice purposes, yes. That would be a mental boost when you return to your course and the baskets feels twice as wide.

But to alter the size of baskets on courses, I would say no. The same discussion in ball golf has been going on for ages, referring to that putting is to big part of the score.

It is the other way around in discgolf I guess, where top players rarely misses within the circle. I still do believe that baskets should be the size they have today, we can do so much more to enhance the need for accurate up shots. I agree with Tim Haynes above on this.

Place the basket or build obstacles so you can only sink putts from one side of it. Utilize mid-size par fours, where placement is the key, not length from tee. If the meaning is to make every shot count, not just putts, it is more a question of course layout in my opinion!

I agree about keeping the baskets the same size that we have now for the larger really competitive tourney's like NT's and A tiers, but I don't see a problem with having smaller baskets for lower tiers, specifically X tiers for experimental purposes.
Obviously the first ideas are not always the BEST ideas and through trial and error we have better discs today than in 1976, so I don't see why we shouldn't experiment with other options like smaller targets.
Personally I like round discs and round baskets with symmetrical shapes for both, but the idea for a smaller target like the Bulls EYE has been very well received as a training device. We used 3 of them at the Ozark Open on Akita's Run this Spring and as far as I know, we never had or at least heard, any complaints, in fact there was an Ace on one. New technologies come from experimenting and Theres no better way to get feedback on baskets than to have players play on them in competition.

right now the Bulls EYE's are made to meet 2 needs, training and price point.
if there becomes a demand for a basket like this for competition we will surely build them as Durable as the Titan Pro-24!

dave,
are there pics of the bullseye online? thanks.

Okay, if we make the basket smaller, we're talking about diameter right? So, would the smaller diameter basket be so small as to not allow a disc to lie flat inside of it (i.e. maximum disc diameter approx 23cm, so the radius of the basket from the pole to the inside edge of the basket would have to be at least equal)?

If not, then the only way a disc cold fall into the basket would be at an angle, not horizontally. What will further complicate this is that the chain assembly will hang down into the basket, thus reducing the available horizontal distance available for the disc to drop between the pole and inner basket. Essentially, smaller baskets will dictate that ONLY discs that hit chains and fall into the basket at an angle up to vertical (90 degrees), will actually stay in.

I realize that most discs do not fall into the basket horizontally, but the radius of the basket is large for a reason, to allow a disc to hit the chain assembly (which effective reduces the available basket radius) and still fall into the basket. Reducing the diameter of the basket and chain assembly will make putting much more difficult due to the physical way a disc (of a specific and unchanging diameter) will fall into the basket and come to rest.

I'm opposed to new smaller baskets becoming the standards, and thus making all the original large baskets "unapproved". I am in favor of anything that requires more skill from a player.

I agree about keeping the baskets the same size that we have now for the larger really competitive tourney's like NT's and A tiers, but I don't see a problem with having smaller baskets for lower tiers, specifically X tiers for experimental purposes.
Obviously the first ideas are not always the BEST ideas and through trial and error we have better discs today than in 1976, so I don't see why we shouldn't experiment with other options like smaller targets.
Personally I like round discs and round baskets with symmetrical shapes for both, but the idea for a smaller target like the Bulls EYE has been very well received as a training device. We used 3 of them at the Ozark Open on Akita's Run this Spring and as far as I know, we never had or at least heard, any complaints, in fact there was an Ace on one. New technologies come from experimenting and Theres no better way to get feedback on baskets than to have players play on them in competition.

right now the Bulls EYE's are made to meet 2 needs, training and price point.
if there becomes a demand for a basket like this for competition we will surely build them as Durable as the Titan Pro-24!



See I was thinking the exact opposite. The best players in our game are supposed to be at the NTs and SuperTours so why not have smaller tougher putting situations at THOSE tournament so showcase the skills of our top players instead of hide the smaller more difficult targets at the small not as well attended events?

By the way Dave I love the Titan 24s. The 3 chain setup is key to great catching. I also like the weights on the rings. Have you experimented with light then heavy then light as the chains weights?

Im all for smaller baskets and a fifty foot putting circle. The putting in disc golf is by no means easy, but these 2 things would be great for showcasing talents. I agree with Mills, Id love to see it implemented at bigger tourneys for the skill aspect.


Titans are sick baskets. Wish we had them on more of the QC courses.

dave,
are there pics of the bullseye online? thanks.



http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9532/bullseye5kc1.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7228/bullseye3iv6.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3733/bullseye2zk5.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1949/bullseye1oy2.jpg

Dave,
have the bullseyes been made available for sale? I couldn't find anything on the GDS Web site, nor have I seen anything anywhere else... Do you have pricing and availability? We've got several tourneys coming up locally, and I would love to have one set up for people to practice on -- I think it would be a huge hit.
Thanks,
Tim

i like the looks of it as well.

I practice with two baskets.

One portable Discatcher Pro, like some of my favorite courses in town have and I also use a lighting DB5 with the top and chains taken off but with the center pole intact.

I can practice push putts on it, and it is also very fun to try and spin putt on, seeing as you either have to nail the pole!

If you really want to go to use an extremely difficult target than that is the real extreme.

Or object golf style on a thin tree.

I would never pay for half a basket, but that is not to say that there is no use for one.

I think that the regular baskets are the right size. I just think the deflection area (chains) on most baskets are too big a target, I really like the look of the bullseye and for convenience and to test it out it would be great to remove outer set of chains from baskets and see what would happen to scores.

Im also in favor of symmetrical targets

When I really want to tune in my putting. IE when im in a slump I take the chains entirely off my basket and try to hit the pole or just DROP my putts in the basket. When you go back to chains it almost like cheating.

I would love to know how much and how I could get ahold of the bulls EYE though. It looks like a great practice tool.

Nothing in the current specs has prevented manufacturers from coming out with smaller baskets. The specs only have maximum diameter limits. Interestingly, none of the most popular target models has anywhere close to the diameter allowed for the chain support. Most of them are around 59cm and the spec allows up to 71cm diameter.

We have been trying to make a basket with a retail price point of less than $150.00 the Bulls EYE with the metal bottom ( basket) and metal base is what we will eventually make available.
For now we have the same top assembly as in the picture, but with a plastic basket and plastic stake for a stand for around $100.00.

Weve sold or given away a little over 50 so far with the plastic bottoms and still have a few left.

If anyone is interested just call the shop 314 487 5204!

Interestingly, none of the most popular target models has anywhere close to the diameter allowed for the chain support. Most of them are around 59cm and the spec allows up to 71cm diameter.



That's because if you increase the size of the chain support you will have more metal hits, but less catches. One of the problems with the Instep basket is that the basket and chain support are the same size and there are a lot of putts that should be caught that aren't.

One of the problems with the Instep basket is that the basket and chain support are the same size and there are a lot of putts that should be caught that aren't.



Or looked at another way, they deflect more putts that perhaps shouldn't be caught, keeping them from flying past. ;)