Check out this cool video by Jay lewis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3CMMSBUvXk
IMO,,,This is the type of par 4 that levels the playing field.
Do you think this is a good par 4?

I think it is a good par 4. You must play a controlled shot off the tee, then make a great second shot to birdie.

In the video it looks very crowed around the green though. Maybe its just the video angles but looks very hard to get a clean line at the basket even with a great second shot. I like to see open greens for the most part, maybe I am wrong about this hole if so I will retract my opinion about this green.

All and all I love the par 4's and 5's!

Agreed. Love the idea behind and design of the hole, but that pin position amongst all those little trees is just a little ridiculous.

ditto.

That hole has been much discussed locally. First of all, we should know what level of player this hole has been designed for as a par 4. I'm guessing blue level but I'm just making the point that the par is related to the skill level a hole is designed for.

The tee shot is blind so it loses points for not being able to see the landing area. It's not that you should never have a blind par 3 or par 4/5 landing area, but if you do, then the payoff for the rest of the hole should be worth it to offset the blindness. If you do have a blind landing area, then it should be a little bigger than a non-blind landing area and ideally have some visual reference from the tee for players to line up the shot. On this hole, the big tree to the left provides a decent reference point for players on the tee to key off of so that's good.

The landing area is nicely mowed and pretty good sized. However, the best place or area to land is unclear because the routes to the basket on the second shot are either too tight or greasy. Setting up for the high hyzer approach shot might be the easiest for a righty. However, the preferred route isn't 'clean' and you're just relying on good deflections upon coming down to the green.

The concept of the using the big tree as a reference point for the entrance to the pin is nice. However, it's a little too tight and should be trimmed better. If in fact, the opening were made wider, I think the concern would be that the upshot wouldn't be challenging enough. My thought would be that a wider opening combined with a longer pin placement (although maybe not possible) would be an improvement so it's not too easy, the good places to land on the drive are more clear and the high hyzer approach shot is tougher and luckier so it's less preferred than it is now.

like the options of going up the middle or over the top

other than that I'm not a big fan of not having a putting green... some obstructions is fine from time to time but if you place a good1st shot... close 2nd shot and dont have a putt because of twigs/saplings ... not cool.

although in the case of this hole its a catch22... if the small trees weren't there I dont think it would be a good par 4 for this level player... i would think it would be an almost guaranteed 3.

I also like the 'course destruction' going on @ 1:50 ... does he do that often? does anyone ever call him on it if he does?

I also like the 'course destruction' going on @ 1:50 ... does he do that often? does anyone ever call him on it if he does?



There is discussion on that very topic here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=863178&Main=863072#Post8 63178).

sorry... I'm so stupid! Darn it! I can't believe I didnt see that! ARRGHHH!!! <throws mouse and slams keyboard while stomping off mumbling underneath his breath>

;)

Nope. Definitely not worthy of a par 4. A simple anny or sidearm puts you in front of the gap, a easy straight upshot puts you within 10-20', and an easy putt is all that's left. Beside the army of trees around the green, I'd say this is nothing more than an easy 3. If players didn't take the hyzer route around the gap on their upshot, they'd probably be better off and take an easy three beacause they'd run right up the fairway and have no obstacles for the putt. If you go for the non-standard hyzer around the fairway, you suffer your own consequences of putting through the army of trees on the green.

looks too easy to be a par 4, imo.

Is the sky anny from the tee there?

Trim some of those sapplings around the basket.