Every tournament besides 1 in Tenessee and 2 overseas have showed their scores on the PDGA website even in all the weeks AFTER the Lake Tahoe Pro/AM. It was July 11-12 and every tournament that week and the weeks following have results in. Maybe it's time to change the policies for getting results in because if you can't keep up with everybody else, even a little bit, you don't deserve to run a tournament.

I think it's time to have a pre-reg list policy too. I don't want to drive 3.5 hours just to find out that there are only 6 players in my division. Tahoe had no pre-reg list either.

Are you all saying you think only TD's with internet access and Excel skills should be allowed to run events? That is basically what it takes to put up a pre-reg list and download scores after an event. Currently, the TD is only required to get the report into the PDGA within 30 days, the rest is a bonus.



I think you have all become spoiled by this new-fangled internet thing. ;)

This new-fangled internet thing has been around longer than the PDGA.

For this particular tournament I know that there are plenty of people who are more than willing to download scores and take that responsibility off the TD's hands. I have been cool with slow reporting for years but literally everyone else has at least found someone or someway to take care of it. The TD doesn't have to know Sh.., which this one obviously does not.

Koski's point may be even more relevant. It would be nice to know how many are in your division or if there even will be one. You can certainly call the TD but it's hard to get anything accurate that way.

Mitch, your posts seem to hint that you have some personal grudge against Steve(the TD). I do understand your frustration with the scores not being posted though. I was wondering the same thing so I called Steve and left a message and offered to help in any way I could.
I know Russ Way has internet and should be able to help out.
:)
Other than the scores not being posted I thought the tourney was awesome! Great payout and lots of golf. 29 hole rounds is a lot though. I like the idea of pre-reg only. That's how we do it at Stafford Lake.

Sug_Bear? Really? did your girlfriend give you that name? JK
I am sure it has some deep personal meaning for you :D

Anyway John,

Sorry if it seems that way but I have absolutely no personal grudges against any TD's. I can't imagine how hard it is to run a tourney. I know there has been a little drama up there but I in no way wish to be a part of that. I guess I should take back my point that the TD doesn't know Sh.., that's a little harsh. I was referring strictly to the scores being posted.

This is one tourney I personally never miss because it is so great and always keeps a smile on my face, but it's been years now that they can't get the score thing done. I think that time has passed and the PDGA should tighten the window for reporting scores.

Ahh. That's more like it. :)
I know you're a nice guy Mitch. I just didn't want TD's to think otherwise. ;)

I consider those guys (Steve Newell and Matt Egan) to be friends but I do have a problem with that tourney. You play from 9am to 9pm and you get no time to do anything else in Tahoe on a Saturday night. Last year I take my wife, we're going to have dinner at 7 (no tournament first day goes later than 7 right?) I made my last putt in the dark and was in my room by 9:30 for cold pizza and a furious wife. And then we had to play the 6.5 hour round of golf on Sunday. That tourney needs to be three days or they need to do what they can to speed things up. On the positive side I got a "free roll" for the tournament and won. Double prizes.

I consider those guys (Steve Newell and Matt Egan) to be friends but I do have a problem with that tourney. You play from 9am to 9pm and you get no time to do anything else in Tahoe on a Saturday night. Last year I take my wife, we're going to have dinner at 7 (no tournament first day goes later than 7 right?) I made my last putt in the dark and was in my room by 9:30 for cold pizza and a furious wife. And then we had to play the 6.5 hour round of golf on Sunday. That tourney needs to be three days or they need to do what they can to speed things up.


Wow, i could have written that since thats exactly what happened to me, :( EXCEPT, once the first round was done and i saw how late the second round was going to be, i had to choose....disc golf til 9pm and later and not just a furious wife but most likely paying for her to get on a bus and going home without me, or quitting the tournament right then and making our reservations for the dinner and show we had set up. i chose the second option.
The tournaments in nor-cal are some of the best, great competition, great courses, great people to hang with. BUT thats the only place ive had to withdraw from a tournament because they ran too late. Once to catch my plane back home (skycatz '03), and once to keep my marriage (tahoe, last year). hope things get better in regards to time management. :p

DONT FORGET...

There is NO RULE that states a TD MUST enter scores into the PDGA Scoring Page.
/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

We have just been spoiled by those who do........OR those who ask Steve Ganz to do it for them.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:cool:

That is why I wrote at the beginning that I think the policy should change. 83 tournaments have results in over the past few weeks and 3 don't? That says something huge. I believe we need to continue to look professional over here on the West Coast and it simply does not look good, no matter how killer the tournament is.

I also wouldn't care as much but the TD's were saying that they wanted to get this tournament back to where it used to be. Back when the Super Tour was the only big thing, Tahoe was a part of it. If they want to get back to any prominence at all they should at least be with it on the scores.

I don't care about the long days but I live close and go up there a lot so the wife stays home :D

I love the tournament, but sometimes when certain things are said and something else happens it just eats at me a little bit.

I agree Mitch, although I didn't play in the Pro/Am I did play in the Hula Bowl, which I'm still waiting to become official for the points. I've waited up to a month last year for scores to be posted,
which is hell for someone spoiled by technology.

I wish I could personally train every TD to use a computer to upload scores that same night, but until then I'll have to wait for the next generation of TD's or ATD's.

Well it's nice to see that the scores have finally been posted.
Funny... I thought my -15 at Biju was a pretty hot round but the rating doesn't really show it. :(
Neither does my -13. :(

Doesn't it seem strange that most of the top players in each division played under their rating average and finished high in the division?

Well it's nice to see that the scores have finally been posted.
Funny... I thought my -15 at Biju was a pretty hot round but the rating doesn't really show it. :(
Neither does my -13. :(



Most likely its an error in the way the TD entered the scores online.
They SHOULD be fixed when the PDGA does the "official" ratings calc & update.
:D

Did some divisions play different tees?

Not sure about the different tees but we did play 29 hole rounds.
:). Crazy! 29 hole rounds? Who does that?

How in the world would a 29 hole round work with the ratings system????

There's no upper limit for the number of holes in a round that can be rated. We do ratings for events in the Netherlands that have 12-hole courses where we total scores from all three 12-hole rounds and give them a rating based on 36 holes.

I consider those guys (Steve Newell and Matt Egan) to be friends but I do have a problem with that tourney. You play from 9am to 9pm and you get no time to do anything else in Tahoe on a Saturday night. Last year I take my wife, we're going to have dinner at 7 (no tournament first day goes later than 7 right?) I made my last putt in the dark and was in my room by 9:30 for cold pizza and a furious wife. And then we had to play the 6.5 hour round of golf on Sunday. That tourney needs to be three days or they need to do what they can to speed things up.


Wow, i could have written that since thats exactly what happened to me, :( EXCEPT, once the first round was done and i saw how late the second round was going to be, i had to choose....disc golf til 9pm and later and not just a furious wife but most likely paying for her to get on a bus and going home without me, or quitting the tournament right then and making our reservations for the dinner and show we had set up. i chose the second option.
The tournaments in nor-cal are some of the best, great competition, great courses, great people to hang with. BUT thats the only place ive had to withdraw from a tournament because they ran too late. Once to catch my plane back home (skycatz '03), and once to keep my marriage (tahoe, last year). hope things get better in regards to time management. :p



Yes indeed... Great golf venue, but it took forever. The 2007 Tahoe ProAm was the longest event in one day I have ever played in... Martin, didn't you and my son mix up tee assignments on round one? I think they put M.Bohns on the top of the score cards for each one of us... LOL...Having three players at one event with the same first initail and same last name is a disaster waitng to happen :eek:

Sug-Bear, the scores have been historically underrated at this tournament. East Coast bias? I shot -9 one time and got rated like 960. It was my best round of that year and 2 points under my rating at the time!

Your -15 and -13 were way underrated.

No event can be over-rated nor under-rated. The average rating of the propagators going in equals the average rating generated in each round in ALL events. The more holes in a round the narrower the range of ratings awarded both above and below a player's rating. But the total points available is still the same. If the top guys have ratings below their rating then typically it's because more than one layout was played and not accounted for when the scores were uploaded.

I consider those guys (Steve Newell and Matt Egan) to be friends but I do have a problem with that tourney. You play from 9am to 9pm and you get no time to do anything else in Tahoe on a Saturday night. Last year I take my wife, we're going to have dinner at 7 (no tournament first day goes later than 7 right?) I made my last putt in the dark and was in my room by 9:30 for cold pizza and a furious wife. And then we had to play the 6.5 hour round of golf on Sunday. That tourney needs to be three days or they need to do what they can to speed things up.


Wow, i could have written that since thats exactly what happened to me, :( EXCEPT, once the first round was done and i saw how late the second round was going to be, i had to choose....disc golf til 9pm and later and not just a furious wife but most likely paying for her to get on a bus and going home without me, or quitting the tournament right then and making our reservations for the dinner and show we had set up. i chose the second option.
The tournaments in nor-cal are some of the best, great competition, great courses, great people to hang with. BUT thats the only place ive had to withdraw from a tournament because they ran too late. Once to catch my plane back home (skycatz '03), and once to keep my marriage (tahoe, last year). hope things get better in regards to time management. :p



Yes indeed... Great golf venue, but it took forever. The 2007 Tahoe ProAm was the longest event in one day I have ever played in... Martin, didn't you and my son mix up tee assignments on round one? I think they put M.Bohns on the top of the score cards for each one of us... LOL...Having three players at one event with the same first initail and same last name is a disaster waitng to happen :eek:



your son was at the right hole. i took a guess during the cattle stampede when they sent us out, and guessed wrong. had to go to hole 23 from hole 7, barely made it. :mad:
in the td's defense there were a LOT of people at that tourney that year. the piece of cardboard with all the hole assignments on it didnt make it easy though.

No kidding. It was pure luck that I got to the right hole.... I think you are right in defending the TD.. They did a great job and it was, as usual, for a very important charity. I just wish I could have made it back there this year. I love the Tahoe area.

No event can be over-rated nor under-rated. The average rating of the propagators going in equals the average rating generated in each round in ALL events. The more holes in a round the narrower the range of ratings awarded both above and below a player's rating. But the total points available is still the same. If the top guys have ratings below their rating then typically it's because more than one layout was played and not accounted for when the scores were uploaded.

--------------------

What?! This course gives ratings that are not fair, period. This course generates ratings that simply do not jive with what is real and accurate. If I throw a round that is my best and score under my average than that course needs to have a higher rating. I am not sure if you saying an event cannot be underrated means the same as a course being underrated, but if it is then that is simply argumentative.

There is no argument on this one: when someone shoots a tournament round at Lake Tahoe, their score rating will be lower than it should be.

If the top guys (or anybody) for that matter come in with ratings that are below normal then either they didn't shoot as well or the course rating has a problem. Since this happens every year in Tahoe, then the course rating has a problem.

Not sure what your argument is

Quote:

The average rating of the propagators going in equals the average rating generated in each round in ALL events. The more holes in a round the narrower the range of ratings awarded both above and below a player's rating. But the total points available is still the same.
________________________________________________

The total points available is preset before a tournament starts?
This means that no matter how many strokes were taken at this event, the ratings total given out would be the same?

The ratings at Tahoe are handled no differently than any other course since ratings started. Whatever the average rating of the propagators is before the event is what their ratings will average every round. That's the cornerstone of the ratings system. No course can be over nor under rated. The only thing different on 24 or 27 hole courses versus 18-hole courses is that players will not get as high nor as low ratings in comparison. The ratings range will be narrower but the same total points will be awarded.

So, theoretically, if every person just happened to have a horrible round, the average ratings of those rounds would be the same as if they had great rounds?

Also, If I average the ratings of the Tahoe event, they will equal the average ratings of the people in it?

That explains why my ratings are higher when I play in events with a bunch of 1000 rated players and lower when not. It does explain it but that does not seem right.

If that's how the ratings are decided then this could happen:
You play the Worlds on a course and then play a tourney on the same course with nobody rated over 900. You might receive a rating 50 points lower for the same score on the same course.

It can theoretically happen but 100s of thousands of rounds now have shown that the variance of the course rating by totally different pools of players is usually less than 2%. In the same event, we average rounds together on the same layout also so that everyone gets the same rating for the same score as long as the wind was not significantly different.

Look at how stable the SSA values are for Zephyr since 1999 for what are probably the same layouts
www.pdga.com/tournament/course_ratings_by_course.php?RatingCourseID=185 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/course_ratings_by_course.php?RatingCourseID=185)

Here's Bijou
www.pdga.com/tournament/course_ratings_by_course.php?RatingCourseID=39 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/course_ratings_by_course.php?RatingCourseID=39)

With foliage changes and likely windier conditions for some of those events, the SSA ratings remain in a very tight range. A one throw variance on an 80 SSA is only 1.25% difference.

The Zephyr Cove course has been changed since 1999 and Bijou added about 1200' a few years ago with 5 or 6 legit par 4s. I don't know if that is helpful or not.

As I recall, Bijou has some alternate pin placements also? I was just supplying the link for the SSAs and several of them look like the same setup and have very close SSAs. But local people would have to look more closely at the numbers and also remember when wind might have been a factor for some of the numbers.