ok, I can only assume this question has been covered many times, but I tried searching and could not come up with anything, so I'll ask anyway

you have a road, along side a hole, and a disc lands in the road a clear 6 inches of pavement can be seen between the disc and the in bounds area, BUT there is a string of grass, that is rooted in the in bounds area, and then lays over the round and the disc now sits upon that string of grass

I think I know the correct answer, but I've heard it argued both ways, so I wanted some more opinions - the disc is clearly surrounded by pavement except where that one string of grass touches the disc - and then there is the line of verticality, but where exactly does it begin?

Pretty straight forward.
Whether a blade of grass in below the disc or not the disc is surrounded by pavement, so it's O.B..
Also the O.B. line is the edge of the pavement.
Now if it was a water line O.B. and one piece of land juts out below the disc, the disc is considered in bounds.

803.09 Out-of-Bounds
A. A disc shall be considered out-of bounds
only when it comes to rest and it
is clearly and completely surrounded by
the out-of-bounds area.

yea thats how I would rule it - just looking for better clarification/wording, as you provided, so that when somebody argues the other way, I'll be better prepared to rule correctly

this becomes most useful when the other group members "aren't sure", and can be swayed one way or another, regardless of what is the correct or incorrect ruling

I know what you mean....

Basically the edge of the pavement is the line not the living grass on the other side of the line.

I have seen a disc that looked in bounds with 4-5 inches of full grass under it. A player walked over and pulled back the grass that was growing over the edge of the pavement, and ruled it O.B..

And he was right, the line is the pavement unless stated otherwise by the T.D. at the players meeting.

The problem is when the grass hasn't been edged for a long time if ever and dirt with grass growing on it has encroached over the top of the cement. Read the Rules Q&A on Bridge Over OB (Multiple Surfaces) and read this section:

"The IB/OB status of a playing surface is not affected by the OB status of another playing surface above or below it. OB applies only to the playing surface that contains it. Otherwise, a number of non-intuitive rulings result:
-
-
If an OB creek undercuts a bank, then the top of the bank is OB even if it is obviously playable. Someone would have to determine how far the creek undercuts the bank to figure out just where the OB line on the bank is."

So, if we consider these grass clumps as the extension of the IB playing surface over the top of the cement which is another playing surface that's OB underneath it, like a creek undercutting a bank, then we have to consider that a disc touching the dirt clump part of the grass as IB even if it's over the cement. However, if the disc is just laying on bent over stalks of grass on the cement and not touching dirt, it would be OB. How about that for confusion?

this is why, if you have a course with OB, I feel you must mark the lines. I have blacktop/gravel roadway edges in our area that are as straight edged as a circle. there is NO WAY to accurately declare in or out of bounds at any point.

clearly mark it or dont play it. thats my .02

Josh, thats a lot easier said than done. We have a course with a walking trail that winds throughout the entire course. The path is about 1.5 miles. Do you suppose we paint the entire walking trail. I don't think our parks dept. will like that much.

I see your point but its not that cut and dry.

You could string it.

Following on my example above, all the TD needs to do is say the edge of the cement is the OB line regardless whether there are any clumps of grass growing over the cement. If you have to lift up a grass clump to make the ruling, do it. The problem is when the TD doesn't clarify the situation in advance and a clever player who reads the D-Board uses the clump of grass or the Rules Q&A on undercutting embankments to bamboozle the group and later the TD.

Word!

yep, which is basically my intention when proposing my question!

knowing the rules is one thing, but sometimes you gotta know more than, "I know how that rule is meant to be implied because I read it on the message board"

yep, which is basically my intention when proposing my question!

knowing the rules is one thing, but sometimes you gotta know more than, "I know how that rule is meant to be implied because I read it on the message board"



that's as good as it gets in disc golf.

Not trying be rude, but getting rules from the message board is how bad calls are made.
Read your rule book very carefully. Most of the rules are open to some interpretation to allow for differing situations. Know your rules, it may just win you a tourney or loose one.

"vociferously argue bent rules to your advantage".

got it. :D

Playing doubles, I had a disc that was in the middle of a creek but supported by a tree root and a rock - my disc was not touching the water. The root extended from a tree which was in bounds. A well known TD was in our group and called it OB. Was it OB? The rules do not seem clear to me.

The problem is when the grass hasn't been edged for a long time if ever and dirt with grass growing on it has encroached over the top of the cement. Read the Rules Q&A on Bridge Over OB (Multiple Surfaces) and read this section:

"The IB/OB status of a playing surface is not affected by the OB status of another playing surface above or below it. OB applies only to the playing surface that contains it. Otherwise, a number of non-intuitive rulings result:
-
-
If an OB creek undercuts a bank, then the top of the bank is OB even if it is obviously playable. Someone would have to determine how far the creek undercuts the bank to figure out just where the OB line on the bank is."

So, if we consider these grass clumps as the extension of the IB playing surface over the top of the cement which is another playing surface that's OB underneath it, like a creek undercutting a bank, then we have to consider that a disc touching the dirt clump part of the grass as IB even if it's over the cement. However, if the disc is just laying on bent over stalks of grass on the cement and not touching dirt, it would be OB. How about that for confusion?

OB, same scenario as above.

Depends if the TD said the OB boundary was the creek banks. Then the disc is OB. If the TD said the disc has to be surrounded by water (even if not in it) then you could argue it's IB.

I think that would also depend on if there was a part of that root under water between the disc and dry land. yet another reason to mark commonly-played "blurry" OB lines with paint or string.

I once was saved a penalty stroke because my disc was partially resting on a boulder that was attached to dry land. Half of the boulder was in the creek, half embedded in the creek bank. I successfully argued that the boulder was part of the playing surface and since the disc was not completely surrounded by water, it was IB. I know that I was correct, but I still felt dirty afterwards.