ok at the tournament last weekend someone threw up on top of a small building to the left of one of the fairways. My question is the disc came to rest on top of the little building. so the card measured from the ground up and declared it was above the 2M OB which was announced before the tournament begin. Where would this player need to play his shot from? also where would have he had to play it from if he was not above the 2M OB rule?

Same location either way behind the building on line with the basket. See my other thread about calling the inside of buildings OB so you get 1m relief at least from the building. In your example, the mark would have to be right against the wall.

ok cool that is where he played it from. thanks

Chuck... this is also a good example of how people use 2m and OB synonymously thus creating the confusion I was talking about where I and others thought 2m = OB

i think its a lot more common than not

Above 2m and OB are 2 different penalties with different options for your next throw.

i know that (now)... but brought this up on a different thread... a lot of people use the term 2m w/ OB as above and can confuse the 2 re: rulings.

those people need to read their rulebook :cool:

yup! :)

the question posed was that if the TD refers to it at the players meeting by saying "2 meter is OB" but means the 2m rule is in effect then anything above 2m should be OB (since the TDs word is bond)

This is why I don't think it is prudent to to allow OB to be defined 3 dimensionally (e.g. Chuck's inside the building is OB). As it stands, if a TD says over 2m is OB, the rules only support the 2m rule and most players will assume the 2m rules in effect. If 3d OB is permissible, then when it is stated that over 2m is OB, confusion will follow, players will take relief inconsistently, and the last place IB becomes very difficult to determine.

I would be OK if the whole building were declared OB including landing on top to eliminate any 2m situation. The 3D OB with no 2m would only be for TDs who hated any shot above 2m getting penalized.

i agree... and as someone else has said... if 'above 2m is OB' then technically if someone throws a high drive it is OB as soon as it goes over 2m... if they throw high and it stays that way until it lands in a pond or something then they were last inbounds right near the last throw (wherever it was last below 2m). Yes... it does get pretty silly.

the other side effect is that if above 2m=OB then it changes how you play that disc if its up in a tree and as you mentioned... add to the inconsistency

i agree... and as someone else has said... if 'above 2m is OB' then technically if someone throws a high drive it is OB as soon as it goes over 2m... if they throw high and it stays that way until it lands in a pond or something then they were last inbounds right near the last throw (wherever it was last below 2m). Yes... it does get pretty silly.

the other side effect is that if above 2m=OB then it changes how you play that disc if its up in a tree and as you mentioned... add to the inconsistency



Unless I am reading your post wrong, I think you misconstrue OB and 2m. A disc is not OB until it lands OB. You can throw way OB and then have the disc fade inbounds at the end of the flight. No penalty. Same with height. a 2m penalty would not apply until the disc comes to rest. You can throw the thing as high as the Sears Tower and it can land on the ground safely and unpenalized. Most drives travel over 2m in height, even mine, and I don't think you meant to infer than any disc that ever travels over 2m in height would be penalitzed. Yet, that's what I read. Of course, I may need to go back to Evelyn Wood and work on both my speed AND my comprehension. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I thought he was saying that if the disc is stuck over 2m, during the flight it never came down to a level under 2m, thus the resulting lie after the penalty would be near where the throw was launched. Unless of course it was a roller that jumped up into the tree after hitting something on the ground ;)

i agree... and as someone else has said... if 'above 2m is OB' then technically if someone throws a high drive it is OB as soon as it goes over 2m... if they throw high and it stays that way until it lands in a pond or something then they were last inbounds right near the last throw (wherever it was last below 2m). Yes... it does get pretty silly.

the other side effect is that if above 2m=OB then it changes how you play that disc if its up in a tree and as you mentioned... add to the inconsistency



Unless I am reading your post wrong, I think you misconstrue OB and 2m. A disc is not OB until it lands OB. You can throw way OB and then have the disc fade inbounds at the end of the flight. No penalty. Same with height. a 2m penalty would not apply until the disc comes to rest. You can throw the thing as high as the Sears Tower and it can land on the ground safely and unpenalized. Most drives travel over 2m in height, even mine, and I don't think you meant to infer than any disc that ever travels over 2m in height would be penalitzed. Yet, that's what I read. Of course, I may need to go back to Evelyn Wood and work on both my speed AND my comprehension. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



The point being that one option for marking a disc that ends up B is at the last point the disc was inbounds. In your example, it is near the where the throw originated because most of the flight was intentionally over OV territory.

In the case of 3D OB where above 2m would be OB, nearly every shot would be OB just after release.

The other point is that the entire OB section of the rules would have to be rewritten because OB status is determined by the status of the playing surface directly beneath the disc.

ok so to help confuse people what if the Shed top was not over 2M which was declared to be played like the old rule, would said player have to stand on top of the shed? and if so can another player help him get up on top of the shed?? more confusion on PDGA rules go figure. I think we have to many loop holes or rules that can be construed way to many different ways :confused:

Inside and on top of structures should be considered OB. IMHO

what if the Shed top was not over 2M which was declared to be played like the old rule, would said player have to stand on top of the shed? and if so can another player help him get up on top of the shed??


If the TD declared the top a "playing surface" then you play from the top of the shed. If not declared, then the low building is a "solid object" and player gets relief behind it on line of play like the orginal post example.

ok so to help confuse people what if the Shed top was not over 2M which was declared to be played like the old rule, would said player have to stand on top of the shed? and if so can another player help him get up on top of the shed?? more confusion on PDGA rules go figure. I think we have to many loop holes or rules that can be construed way to many different ways :confused:



My take.

The roof of the building should not be considered a playing surface, Since 803.04.A.1 requires contact with the playing surface, the roof can not be played from. Relief would be directly behind the structure via the large solid obstacle rule(803.04.E) .

i agree... and as someone else has said... if 'above 2m is OB' then technically if someone throws a high drive it is OB as soon as it goes over 2m... if they throw high and it stays that way until it lands in a pond or something then they were last inbounds right near the last throw (wherever it was last below 2m). Yes... it does get pretty silly.

the other side effect is that if above 2m=OB then it changes how you play that disc if its up in a tree and as you mentioned... add to the inconsistency



Unless I am reading your post wrong, I think you misconstrue OB and 2m. A disc is not OB until it lands OB. You can throw way OB and then have the disc fade inbounds at the end of the flight. No penalty. Same with height. a 2m penalty would not apply until the disc comes to rest. You can throw the thing as high as the Sears Tower and it can land on the ground safely and unpenalized. Most drives travel over 2m in height, even mine, and I don't think you meant to infer than any disc that ever travels over 2m in height would be penalitzed. Yet, that's what I read. Of course, I may need to go back to Evelyn Wood and work on both my speed AND my comprehension. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



The point being that one option for marking a disc that ends up B is at the last point the disc was inbounds. In your example, it is near the where the throw originated because most of the flight was intentionally over OV territory.

In the case of 3D OB where above 2m would be OB, nearly every shot would be OB just after release.

The other point is that the entire OB section of the rules would have to be rewritten because OB status is determined by the status of the playing surface directly beneath the disc.



the point is that the confusion of rules can get people into trouble... heck... people can get into 'trouble' when they actually know the rules ;)

and in that example... yeah... if someone threw high and it stayed high and stuck in a tree... or if they threw high and it then flew out over water and landed in the water... either way the last time it was inbounds would be the last time it was below 2m.