2nd hole of tournament. My group is watching the group in front of us look for a lost disc. 3 minutes pass and the player heads back to the tee to re-tee. He does. I stop watching and and no longer pay attention to the group in front of us. BTW the TD is following around that group. Next round we had a backup and I was talking to a person in my group about the leader of the division and how good his first round was considering he probably took at best a 5 on his first hole. The guy I was talking to(who was in that group the first round) said he took he 3. I asked how is that possible since I saw him re-tee because of a lost disc. He said he threw his re-tee right next to his lost disc and the group and TD told him he could play from his lost disc with no penalty.

Anyway I decided that I was not going to win an rules disagreement with the td and decided that it was better to take second place (by 3 strokes) quietly than take second place and look like a jerk.

I do want to know if my interpretation of the ruling would have been right. I believe that he would have to take a 1 stroke penalty for a lost disc and take a 2 stroke penalty for not finishing the hole from the correct lie (re-tee shot) and he would have to finish the hole from the appx spot of the second drive. In effect giving him a 6 (assuming he "3'd" it from his re-tee sequence). Did I get it right or am I off base?

I couldn't find anything that directly applies. I think the closest is 803.10 playing from another places lies (maybe should be changed to playing from the wrong lie), which is a 2 stroke penalty. Add 4 strokes to whatever he wrote down (he was really lying 2 stroke worse form the lost disc penalty and the retee and then the 2 stroke penalty for the misplay).

What is interesting about this case is the TD made an incorrect ruling during the round. If he hadn't, then I would be fine with adding 4 strokes to the players score. Now, for the TD to change his mind would cause the player to incur extra penalty strokes that he might not have had the TD not led him down the wrong path to start with.

From the Q&A:


803.10: Lost then found
Question

Jon Player can't find his tee shot. He enlists the aid of the entire group. They begin searching for Jon's disc, officially noting when the three minute clock starts. The timer goes off on the three minute clock.

As the group is discussing where the "disc was last seen", so that they could determine the lie for Jon's next shot, they stumble upon Jon's disc.

What's the ruling and from where does Jon take his next shot?
Response

Summary:

A player's disc is lost. After the three minute timer sounds the disc is found. What's the penalty and where does the affected player resume play?

Applicable Rules:

* 803.11 Lost Disc

Discussion:

Time expired during the search for Jon's disc, so Jon is assessed one penalty throw for the lost disc. (It doesn't matter that Jon's disc was found one second after time expired. The rules allow three minutes for finding a lost disc. Once the three minutes are up the disc is officially lost.) Jon resumes play from his previous lie and is accessed a one throw penalty.

Conclusion:

A disc is officially lost at the end of the three-minute search, and a penalty throw is assessed. It makes no difference where the disc is found after is has been determined to be lost; the thrower plays from their previous lie.



So it should be +1 for lost disc, and +2 for playing from the incorrect lie. But there's still one more... The correct throw from the tee also needs to be counted. Therefore that hole should be counted as a 7.

well i do believe it states if you find your lost disc before the rounds ends you dont take a lost disc stroke

PDGA - Wildwood Park, 3828 Dogwood Lane, Appling, GA 30802 PH:706-261-6342(NDGC)
Home | Rules | Membership | PDGA Tour | Information | Pro Shop | Multimedia | Contact | DISCussion | IDGC | Course Directory


Official Rules of Disc Golf
Rules Lookup | Rules Q & A | Doubles | Becoming a PDGA Official | Approved Discs & Targets

Rules (PDF) | Competition Manual (PDF) | Player Divisions & Eligibility (PDF)

Select a rule:

700 Introduction 800 Definitions 801.01 Courtesy 801.02 Order of Play 801.03 Excessive Time 801.04 Playing the Stipulated Course 802.01 Discs Used in Play 802.02 Mini Marker Discs 802.03 Targets 802.04 Artificial Devices 803.01 General 803.02 Teeing Off 803.03 Marking the Lie 803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off 803.05 Obstacles and Relief 803.06 Unplayable Lie 803.07 Interference 803.08 Disc Above the Playing Surface 803.09 Out-of-Bounds 803.10 Throwing From Another Player�s Lie 803.11 Lost Disc 803.12 Mandatories 803.13 Holing Out 804.01 Special Conditions 804.02 Beginning Play 804.03 Scoring 804.04 Rain or Hazardous Conditions 804.05 Disqualification and Suspension 804.06 Grouping and Sectioning 804.07 Ties 804.08 Classification of Players 804.09 Officials 805 Measurement Cross Reference and Equipment Technical Standards
To search the rules by a particular word or phrase, type it in the box below:


803.11 Lost Disc
A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen by the group or an official. Two players or an official must note when the timing of three minutes begins. All players of the group must, upon request, assist in searching for the disc for the full three minutes before the disc is declared lost. The disc is considered lost immediately upon the expiration of the three minute time limit.

B. A player whose disc is declared lost shall receive one penalty throw. If the throw was made from the tee, the player will re-tee for the next shot. If not made from the tee, the group will determine the approximate lie from which the throw was made, and the player will throw again from that lie. In all cases the original throw plus one penalty throw shall be counted in the player�s score

C. If it is discovered prior to the completion of the tournament, that a player�s disc that was declared lost had been removed or taken, then the player shall have two throws removed from his or her score.

D. A marker disc that is lost shall be replaced in its approximate lie as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official with no penalty.


so really he should of took a 4 on the hole

so really he should of got a 3 or 4 conisdering he did throw from the wrong lie he re-teed and the td which has the say if he can or cant throw from the fond disc's lie even if he had he had a group and td ok it and if he went from the re tee the lost disc is forgiven and 2 strokes or taken away so it evens out to about a 3 or 4

803.11 Lost Disc
A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen by the group or an official. Two players or an official must note when the timing of three minutes begins. All players of the group must, upon request, assist in searching for the disc for the full three minutes before the disc is declared lost. The disc is considered lost immediately upon the expiration of the three minute time limit.



An issue I'm noticing with this rule is that two players or an official must declare when the 3 minutes begin. The problem here IMO, is if you have friends playing in the same group they're obviously going to be conniving with each other, and so they'll take all day to find the disc. Now the group behind them can go find the official, but that will hold up the tournament longer, and it's difficult to prove slow-play from a group unless they're blatantly chilling around.

In order to prevent this I believe once it's your turn, and you've reached the last spot you saw your disc l then the clock starts.

well i do believe it states if you find your lost disc before the rounds ends you dont take a lost disc stroke



That's only if it's discovered that another player/spectator improperly picked up your disc while you were playing the hole so you couldn't find it, maybe took it to the lost and found and you found it in the bin after the round. You don't get the penalty reversal if you or anyone else finds the disc sometime after it is declared lost. It's only if someone else was discovered to have been messing with you while playing the hole, whether intentional or not.

An issue I'm noticing with this rule is that two players or an official must declare when the 3 minutes begin. The problem here IMO, is if you have friends playing in the same group they're obviously going to be conniving with each other, and so they'll take all day to find the disc.


People in other groups can and have announced they had started the clock on the group who is searching and everyone in that group can be penalized for subverting the rules under 804.05 if it's blatant disregard for how much time is being taken. Never have seen that called but anyone with a watch can start the time.

I had a player in my group decide to "start the clock". When he yelled out "1 min left", I noticed he does not even have a watch. He is walking in circles counting out loud. Not very helpful for finding a lost disc. I dont start the clock till the group is looking for the disc.

Courtesy warning/violation for not actively helping the group look for the disc.

Carlos, if I was ever in that situation here is what I would do. Yell, Time Out, walk over to the bonehead and ask, Are you trying to impress me with your ability to count, or, can you assist me with my lost disc, which is the moral and legal thing for every player to do. Hope I am never confronted with that type of player, I might have to call a courtesy violaytion for impersonating a disc golfer.

JMO, Mini Thumber

In this case, once he reteed he accepted that he LOST the disc and should have accepted the penalty strokes that come with it. If he threw it in the deep schule and there was a chance that it could be lost he should have taken a provisional. Guess what, in this case the provisional shot would have ended up right next to the original shot and neither would have counted against him. Same rule applies if it happened on a 2nd shot in the fairway...once you place your marker down you've accepted the penalty.

Lost disc rule of distance and stroke is the worst rule in disc golf . PERIOD .

An issue I'm noticing with this rule is that two players or an official must declare when the 3 minutes begin. The problem here IMO, is if you have friends playing in the same group they're obviously going to be conniving with each other, and so they'll take all day to find the disc. Now the group behind them can go find the official, but that will hold up the tournament longer, and it's difficult to prove slow-play from a group unless they're blatantly chilling around.





Lets post the rule one more time on the thread :)
803.11 Lost Disc
A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen by the group or an official. Two players or an official must note when the timing of three minutes begins. All players of the group must, upon request, assist in searching for the disc for the full three minutes before the disc is declared lost. The disc is considered lost immediately upon the expiration of the three minute time limit.

Note the bold part doesn't say ANYTHING about those two players being in the group of the player that lost the disc. No need to go get an official, just two players tell them the clock is on.

That's my read on it anyway.

He said he threw his re-tee right next to his lost disc and the group and TD told him he could play from his lost disc with no penalty.



Back to the original topic... Wow. I can't see how any TD could possibly think "lost disc, re-tee, found disc" adds up to "no penalty and throw from the lost (now found) disc." If he really was confused on the ruling, how in the world did he not consult a rule book? If you're running a tournament, you can't just make up arbitrary rules on a whim.

It's also hard to believe a group of pro players could proceed with that ruling without getting the call correct (and telling the TD to head back to tournament central to study his rule book).

An issue I'm noticing with this rule is that two players or an official must declare when the 3 minutes begin. The problem here IMO, is if you have friends playing in the same group they're obviously going to be conniving with each other, and so they'll take all day to find the disc. Now the group behind them can go find the official, but that will hold up the tournament longer, and it's difficult to prove slow-play from a group unless they're blatantly chilling around.





Lets post the rule one more time on the thread :)
803.11 Lost Disc
A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen by the group or an official. Two players or an official must note when the timing of three minutes begins. All players of the group must, upon request, assist in searching for the disc for the full three minutes before the disc is declared lost. The disc is considered lost immediately upon the expiration of the three minute time limit.

Note the bold part doesn't say ANYTHING about those two players being in the group of the player that lost the disc. No need to go get an official, just two players tell them the clock is on.

That's my read on it anyway.



thanks for posting... so you could be on a hole watching another card tee off and one of the guys in front of you throw into the shule.. you and someone else on your card can yell down that the clock has started when they get to where they think it went and start to look lost? Personally I wouldn't do this... i would head down and help them look but just curious in case someone pulls this one out while on the course.

Player needs to be at the possible lost location before clock should start.

Player needs to be at the possible lost location before clock should start.


That isn't in the rule.

A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen by the group or an official.


Player must arrive at the spot before clock starts.

Yes, the player who threw it, not the one that starts the clock.

Agreed. The thrower has to be in the lost disc area before the clock starts. The person with the clock doesn't have to necessarily be near the lost disc but they should be close enough so the thrower can hear them humming the Jeopardy tune while timing...