Want to know why Peter Shive resigned from the pDGA Board of Directors so he could run on a platform of doing Harold Duvall's bidding?

Harold Duvall controls the pDGA. But most people don't realize it.

Duvall's genius was in sensing that combinations of social and psychological techniques are easier, more effective, and cheaper than the gun-at-the-head method of coercion, and so he passed himself off as "a benevolent volunteer" while he gained control of the pDGA Rules Committee---you know, the folks that make the rules of disc golf, the folks that have enormous influence on the future of our sport and its equipment, like discs that Duvall's company, Innova, manufactures at great profit.

Social and psychological persuasion disguised as friendly "sponsorship" is less likely to attract attention and thus is unlikely to mobilize opposition early and easily from those being manipulated. Duvall simply dished out some Innova plastic to Board members Peter Shive and Steve Dodge, and viola, they do his bidding and ensure the sport will always be dominated by the Innova corporation.

Duvall reasoned that if the pDGA could control all media and communication, forcing members to speak in a politically- controlled jargon, this would blunt independent thinking. If thought could be controlled, then rebellious actions against a regime controlling 85% of the disc golf market could be prevented. So he gave Steve Dodge plenty of discs for his Marshall Street events and the next thing you know, Dodge convinced the pDGA he would clean up this very pDGA forum. Dodge made examples of the few who dared challenge his censorship, and then handed off to his successor, Peter Shive, to continue Duvall's bidding.

Now Peter Shive seeks to claim his reward from Innova for keeping the power of the pDGA Rules Committe in the hands of Duvall, by silencing all who dare speak up against Duvall's corrupting influence. Shive resigned from the Board so he could run in this election as a member of Innova's "Team". Shive (like puppet Dodge before him) has the audacity to claim that he'll be impartial.

Don't be fooled. As long as Peter Shive is on Duvall's payroll and Harold Duvall is allowed to control the Rules Committee, Innova will control disc golf and continue to influence the pDGA into doing what Harold Duvall wants the pDGA to do, namely, increase his profits as an owner of the Innova corporation.

Vote against Peter Shive and his blatant conflicted interest as a member of Harold Duvall's shadow pDGA government!!!

I repeat: "Social and psychological persuasion disguised as friendly "sponsorship" is less likely to attract attention and thus is unlikely to mobilize opposition from those being manipulated."

Surely a message-board suspension won't be enough for this eggregious violation of the unwritten pDGA rules. Will they ban me from pDGA tournaments as well?

Has Shive already called Duvall to ask him what to do about this?

this thread is amazing, how much to subscribe to your newsletter?

It's a limited time special. Usually it lasts for just a couple of days.

what's a fake amateur membership cost, $50? i'll need that much to continue posting after i get banned for the 40th time by the Innova Puppet. send donations for my fake amateur membership to:

http://www.spj.org/

i'll bee amazed if this thread exists when i wake up in the morning.....even though it should....

i was talking about my rug

i'll bee amazed if this thread exists when i wake up in the morning.....even though it should....



It may still be here. I think the shock value of this overused approach is starting to wear out.

i like your rug.

http://www.helltoupee.net/toup_02c.jpg

The Rule Of Reciprocity (One way Harold Duvall controls the pDGA with sponsorship of its leadership):

According to sociologists and anthropologists, one of the most widespread and basic norms of human culture is embodied in the rule of reciprocity. This rule requires that one person try to repay what another person has provided. By obligating the recipient to an act of repayment in the future--the rule for reciprocation allows one individual to give something to another with the confidence that it is not being lost.

This sense of future obligation according to the rule makes possible the development of various kinds of continuing relationships, transactions, and exchanges that are beneficial to society. Consequently, virtually all members of society are trained from childhood to abide by this rule or suffer serious social disapproval.

The decision to comply with someone's request is frequently based upon the Rule of Reciprocity. Again, a possible and profitable tactic to gain probable compliance would be to give something to someone before asking for a favor in return.

The opportunity to exploit this tactic is due to three characteristics of the Rule of Reciprocity:


The rule is extremely powerful, often overwhelming the influence of other factors that normally determine compliance with a request.

The rule applies even to uninvited first favors, which reduces our ability to decide whom we wish to owe and putting the choice in the hands of others

The rule can spur unequal exchanges. That is--to be rid of the uncomfortable feeling of indebtedness, an individual will often agree to a request for a substantially larger favor, than the one he or she first received.

I appreciate you managed to express your views in your high-spirited fashion without a trace of profanity. You also have made some very clear points about your opinions about some members of the BOD and the message board policies without engaging in a vicious personal attack. You may be toeing the line on personal attacks or at least putting your own spin on how you see things in an aggressive manner but it seems like you've gotten your point across without going too far. Seems like the message board policies are working. I hope you don't get suspended for what you've said so far and that you don't actually cross that line in future posts because you do create some interesting discussion if it stays somewhat civil.

However, I do not agree with your points about Peter Shive. He plays a lot of tournaments in Colorado and after many discussions with him; I have nothing but respect for how he goes about playing disc golf, being a Board member and a sponsored player for Innova (although he�s not sponsored at this moment). I may not agree with every decision he's ever made but I do think he thinks about disc golf as a whole with each vote he casts. I also think he has true integrity and I will be voting for him again this year, even if I think it's odd he resigned and then ran again.

Conspiracy theories are fun to loudly express but I don't think he's out to promote Innova only just because they "sponsor" him. A little plastic and a few extra bucks are not worth his integrity in my opinion. I don't think there's nearly enough money in disc golf for any one player for bribery at this point and definitely not for Peter Shive. I'm not saying you should agree with him if you don't, but don't blame his decisions on the "Innova Conspiracy" to control the world. I won�t defend Harold Duvall or Steve Dodge because I don�t know them personally.

So, yell and rant and scream, all you want and if you don�t get suspended again people will either tune you in or tune you out but at least you�ll get heard. Continue the campaign to get BOD members you want and oust the ones you don�t like. Keep it civil and more people will actually pay attention instead of betting on the over/under of your next suspension. I hope you put as much energy into your local club and courses as you do to your posts because that kind of energy grows disc golf as much or more than anything the PDGA and its various leaders do or don�t do. Good luck.

Max Maclay
#21776

lol, funny thread

he also may have been the man on the grassy knoll, or the one who staged and filmed the moon landing...

seriously,

I don't know Peter personally, but I have a run-in with him that left a bad taste in my mouth. He placed me on probation for an "offensive" post 1 full week after said post was posted, notified me by email, then did not have the respect for me to reply to my sincere email I sent to him and all of the moderators (who, like their boss, did not reply as well) explaining to all that I would have removed to post if I could, but since he suspended me 1 week later, it was too late for me to edit or remove the posting. I know it is just a frekin' discussion board, but the treatment I received didn't seem real fair to me at the time, espically from an elected official in our sports governing body.

Yeah Mikey, Peter is just a puppet of Innova on the board. Except the fact that he RESIGNED from Team Innova when coming to the board.

Unreal.

Thanks for the laugh.

Halliburton?

I don't know Peter personally, but I have a run-in with him that left a bad taste in my mouth. He placed me on probation for an "offensive" post 1 full week after said post was posted, notified me by email, then did not have the respect for me to reply to my sincere email I sent to him and all of the moderators (who, like their boss, did not reply as well) explaining to all that I would have removed to post if I could, but since he suspended me 1 week later, it was too late for me to edit or remove the posting. I know it is just a frekin' discussion board, but the treatment I received didn't seem real fair to me at the time, espically from an elected official in our sports governing body.



Me Too! Best part about it, i was placed on the PROBBED list for posting an image of a pDGA disc that his INNOVA buddies manufactured and sold. An image that has been posted numerous times beforehand with no warning or finger probbing. An image of a banshee with a full color marijuana bud. An image kind of like this one but most likely a little better tasting:
http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/new_discs/full_color.jpg

Great, now let's spread rumors that a person's disc preference influences who gets in trouble on the message board.

shive has yet to ever respond to a single email I have sent him

what a joke, do your job

Great, now let's spread rumors that a person's disc preference influences who gets in trouble on the message board.



Tony what the _ are you reading? That's a strange interpretation to say the least. Let me clean it up a bit for you. I find it odd that you can get probbed or even suspended for posting an image of a pDGA approved disc on the pDGA approved discussion board.

I hope you put as much energy into your local club and courses as you do to your posts because that kind of energy grows disc golf as much or more than anything the PDGA and its various leaders do or don�t do.

there are few people who have produced more direct, tangible benfits for disc golf than Mikey has in New Orleans. period, end of story. the scene is vibrant. i understand that relations with the city are so good that the club has open approval to maintain the course, add/trim trees and so on. and this is on an absolute gem of a course.

i will vouch for Mikeys efforts AND results.

john, we approve molds, not discs. thats why there are overweight discs in play :)

I'm glad to hear Mikey has done so much locally. He obviously has passion and it's good to hear he can direct it positively and work with people so well in person.

-MADMAX

Great, now let's spread rumors that a person's disc preference influences who gets in trouble on the message board.



Tony what the _ are you reading? That's a strange interpretation to say the least. Let me clean it up a bit for you. I find it odd that you can get probbed or even suspended for posting an image of a pDGA approved disc on the pDGA approved discussion board.



My apologies.

Given Mikey's and Pat's conspiratorial and ambiguous inferences, I was reading between the lines a little too hard.

I don't know Peter personally, but I have a run-in with him that left a bad taste in my mouth. He placed me on probation for an "offensive" post 1 full week after said post was posted, notified me by email, then did not have the respect for me to reply to my sincere email I sent to him and all of the moderators (who, like their boss, did not reply as well) explaining to all that I would have removed to post if I could, but since he suspended me 1 week later, it was too late for me to edit or remove the posting. I know it is just a frekin' discussion board, but the treatment I received didn't seem real fair to me at the time, espically from an elected official in our sports governing body.



Me Too! Best part about it, i was placed on the PROBBED list for posting an image of a pDGA disc that his INNOVA buddies manufactured and sold. An image that has been posted numerous times beforehand with no warning or finger probbing. An image of a banshee with a full color marijuana bud. An image kind of like this one but most likely a little better tasting:
http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/new_discs/full_color.jpg



He He, He He, Hero said Probbed, He He.

i try to stay away from the conspiracy theories, but i wont argue the ambiguous part :). i dont understand Mikey's theory that controlling the rules committee would help innova's business objectives. i mean, we dont have rules that say you must throw innova. if i was innova i would try to control whatever i could to my advantage. why wouldnt i? especially with patents expiring, the whole industry is a lot more wide open than ever before and i'd want to keep my influence strong in as many places as possible. so i guess my question is: is it a conspiracy is its obvious?

Conspiracy theory or not, I'll support the first company that comes up with scratch and sniff hot stamps. Right now i hate to think what it would be like scratching and sniffing an Orc.

especially with patents expiring, the whole industry is a lot more wide open than ever before



tell us more about this... I understand that most last ~20yrs... so you're saying someone could recreate the mold of the aviar and roc or whatever other disc (if the patent) was up... and sell it

is this just something you've thought of or do you know if there is other talk of someone doing this.

and if its an exact copy of an older disc then the new manufacturer wouldn't have to pay pdga approval fees since its based on the mold (and we all know the molds get tweaked from time to time anyway)

could def. make the industry interesting... "thanks for your R&D... thanks for paying for this mold to be approved... we'll be using it now" if the 'new' company had a good enough plastic and sold it for a comparable amount... why not?

Conspiracy theory or not, I'll support the first company that comes up with scratch and sniff hot stamps. Right now i hate to think what it would be like scratching and sniffing an Orc.



I wonder what a Buzz would smell like. :D :o

i understood it to mean some original patents on discs and also on baskets. i dont have the patent details though. someone else may be able to provide the specifics.

Conspiracy theory or not, I'll support the first company that comes up with scratch and sniff hot stamps. Right now i hate to think what it would be like scratching and sniffing an Orc.



Oh! Oh! Lookit! Hero's Pandering to Discraft! See, See, he's saying that Innova smells bad. Mikey, come save us!

On another note, while I frequently disagree with Peter, I always admire his restraint, professionalism, and honesty. I do believe I will be voting for him.

He placed me on probation for an "offensive" post 1 full week after said post was posted, notified me by email, then did not have the respect for me to reply to my sincere email I sent to him and all of the moderators (who, like their boss, did not reply as well) explaining to all that I would have removed to post if I could, but since he suspended me 1 week later, it was too late for me to edit or remove the posting.



FYI, it has never been policy to ask users to edit or remove their posts after a PDGA DISCussion Board rules violation. Once a post is reported as offensive, a moderator decides whether it violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules, removes the post, then gives a warning or probation/suspension. I cannot even imagine how labor intensive it would be and what headaches were to ensue if after a rules violation, the message board user was then asked to edit or remove their post and the moderators were charged with making sure the post was edited or removed in a timely and acceptable manner.

Furthemore, once a moderator decision has been made, any replies regarding a decision are forwarded to the Communications Director. Period. Moderators are forbidden to respond after a decision has been made. Everyone involved should know that the Communications Director is the next step.

restraint, professionalism, and honesty.

examples please. be as specific as possible.

I honestly don't get what the beef is. How is Pete Shive's resignation from the PDGA board going to spark sales for Innova? That was the general gist of this thread, right? Did I miss something? If I did miss the obvious, excuse me.

Are people really reporting these 'offensive' posts?
Pretty sure the board is policed.

...Furthemore, once a moderator decision has been made, any replies regarding a decision are forwarded to the Communications Director. Period. ...



Yes, I know, and Mr. Shive is the Communications Director, so why did he not reply to me? My email was sincere and simply raised some questions I wanted some answers to.

I also didn't get a response from him or the first email stating I was suspended. It seems like a simple task to me.

and Stack Yes when the patent for the Roc was up the Wasp came out

Are people really reporting these 'offensive' posts?
Pretty sure the board is policed.



Yes, there are people really reporting offensive posts. While it varies monthly, the moderators typically respond to somewhere between 20 and 50 notifications per month from many different users. Less than 20% of notifications reported result in probations/suspensions.

Moderators responding to notifications from message board users is the only 'policing' that is done.

Got it. I just cant believe, that the vast majority of MB users are of adult 'age', and things are being reported. A youtube link, that is not flagged by youtube, should not be flagged here. I understand that people get offended, I just dont understand reporting and deleting posts. I appreciate your efforts and time dedicated to the PDGA.

Got it. I just cant believe, that the vast majority of MB users are of adult 'age', and things are being reported. A youtube link, that is not flagged by youtube, should not be flagged here. I understand that people get offended, I just dont understand reporting and deleting posts. I appreciate your efforts and time dedicated to the PDGA.



you just wanted '2 pieces of toast, a fork on the table and a sheet on the bed' right?

WOW, IS that the one i got probationed for?

Are you implying that they never informed you as to why you were put on probation? I'm shocked

I was told it was a link to profanity.

dont think so since its still up and the malta thing was posted on 5/8 and the thing you got 'in trouble' for looks like it was from the 7th

do they not tell you what it is you get 'in trouble' for?

Sweet I can still rat on that one

restraint, professionalism, and honesty.

examples please. be as specific as possible.



That's easy enough Pat, without going into all of the reasons why I find these things to be true about Peter, I will simply comment that IMO, if Peter created a post asking for specifics about another Board Member's professionalism, restraint, and honesty, IMO he'd be showing a lack of professionalism and restraint. Since Peter has never done this, as far as that issue is concerned, I'd say he's doing well. Of course that still leaves a specific on his honesty un-addressed. Let me give a personal reflection. I too have been censored by Peter. I was, to say the least, irritated. I wrote Peter a short, sharp, rude note to that effect. Peter's reply was blunt, to the point, and honest about his position. I disagreed with Peter but found his honesty to be refreshing and admirable.

BTW - his reply wasn't personal or derogatory to me. It was directed at my post and what he felt was wrong with it. Again, I disagreed with his position but appreciated his honesty. BTW - I might also point out that his reply, though curt, was professional, he didn't attack my character or my person, and showed great restraint, given I was pretty short with him.

Is that good 'nough for ya Pat?

BTW - I might ask, is your post part of the team building, jelling that is going on between Board Members? Maybe we're still in the conflict, denigrate your team members part of the team building experience? Or perhaps we're in the get others to compliment and talk up your team members phase? Regardless, thanks for the opportunity to do just that.

I think is was Joe Rogan's : LIFE

gotcha... i didnt see the rogan one

and I see Mikey is gone again... was it for something he said on here? can't find the post and it says it was from 5.14

do they not tell you what it is you get 'in trouble' for?



Whenever a post is moderated and the poster is given a warning or probation/suspension, an exact copy of the post is sent to the message board user. Message board users see exactly what the offending post was which violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules.

I call BS there.

Sjur was that the one Jimi sent about DMT

yup.

All though highly entertaining and eduational, ThaT one could get ya in a little trouble

do they not tell you what it is you get 'in trouble' for?



Whenever a post is moderated and the poster is given a warning or probation/suspension, an exact copy of the post is sent to the message board user. Message board users see exactly what the offending post was which violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules.




I call BS there.



BS indeed! The Moderator that i dealt with did not send me the image of the pDGA disc with the flowering plant that i was finger probbed for. All i received was a text email/PM stating that i was being fingered for an image that was not appropriate for minors.

It just doesn't make sense that i can use the pDGA approved disc in a Major, NT, A-tier, etc event.....win the event :D, have my pic taken and published with the pDGA disc that helped me win but i can't post it here. Simply put, it's stupid.

<font color="red"> edited: Apparently the email from the mod bounced on Tuesday, October 2, 2007 @ 7:31 PM </font>

All though highly entertaining and eduational, ThaT one could get ya in a little trouble



I agree... although it is very informative.

this raises a question/thought. Could you have posted ...
youtube - joe rogan &amp; DMT

?????

i would hope that wouldn't get you banned... and maybe if you included 'contains profanity' or http://lanfall.com/images/esrb_m.gif

im on probation for asking for an apology........please explain that one to me. or maybe it was the first part of the post where i said a that a person who is in AA is in recovery.....so stating facts and asking for an appology is now grounds for probation.....its fairly amazing

yo Lyle, i have not denigrated any BoD members! read this thread top to bottom and ask yourself who is picking the fight.

have you called any BoD members and asked them what they thought about the current BoD's ability to work together? i dont think you have, because you have a different understanding otherwise. in other words, lyle, if you have not done that then you are not yet informed by the facts. so please stop putting words into the Directors mouths.

im on probation for asking for an apology........please explain that one to me. or maybe it was the first part of the post where i said a that a person who is in AA is in recovery.....so stating facts and asking for an appology is now grounds for probation.....its fairly amazing


R U serious??? please provide details, either here or in a PM or email to [email protected]

rule 6 Causing harm to the message board is not allowed.

can we use this to stop offtopic posts, on the grounds that disrupting discussions constitutes harm? :)

in the support the sponsor thread a friend of mine posted about how he wants to be drinking an expidetion stout. i said "too bad you are in recovery and im still waiting for my apology" and that was a "peronal attack".....he is currently going through the 12 steps.....im just waiting for him to get to the apology step.....i don't see how this is at all a personal atack

Whenever a post is moderated and the poster is given a warning or probation/suspension, an exact copy of the post is sent to the message board user. Message board users see exactly what the offending post was which violated PDGA DISCussion Board rules.


Trying to stay out of this one, but, sorry, and this is a fact: I've been given a warning, at least once, without ever having had sent to me a copy of what it was, that had I posted, that was purportedly in violation.

Since I am posting here now anyway, my issue is that I believe there should be far more limitations on the nature of what should be allowed in here than there are. But the warnings, probations, and suspensions that get meted out are rarely for the kinds of things I feel are most objectionable.

There are a handful of people who believe that "On the Internet" just by its nature means the same as "In your face." That's not so.

And what continues on here is an environment that is harmful to the PDGA, and which is poisonous and hostile to the vast majority of potential users of this PDGA dues-paid resource.

I have sent numerous questions to the supposed communications director without ever getting a response

remember, he's a touring pro. i know he didnt have time to get to the summit, so he's probably extremely busy these days. it may be fair to cut him some slack...

If he is too busy to fulfill his duties, then maybe he should resign. Or did he do that already?

yes, of course. its all so professional, isnt it?

Answering that question would get me in trouble.

He's just manipulating the system, like he does by division hopping between 3 divisions to milk the system.

manipulation? no, that cant be. manipulation is not honest. cant be true.

<font color="red"> edited: Apparently the email from the mod bounced on Tuesday, October 2, 2007 @ 7:31 PM </font>



if an email bounces, does it still count as sent? hardly. at least not if it was intended to get to the recipient.

Peter, are you reading all this? sounds like we need to tighten up our response mechanism.

<font color="red"> edited: Apparently the email from the mod bounced on Tuesday, October 2, 2007 @ 7:31 PM </font>



if an email bounces, does it still count as sent? hardly. at least not if it was intended to get to the recipient.



The standard procedure is for moderators to send warning / probation / suspension notice e-mails from the official moderator e-mail account, with a carbon copy to all the other moderators as well as the Communications Director, with a copy of the offending post. If the e-mail bounces, the protocol is then to send a Private Message. The PM function is however undesirable because it does not allow the others on the Communications Team to be carbon copied, and additionally, when there is a suspended user, the user would never receive the notice until the user's suspension ends. When a user is suspended, that user is unable to log into their account and read Private Messages at all.

For this reason, we ask that you update the e-mail address for administrative use only in your profile. Moderators should not be held responsible if a user goes on probation or suspension and never finds out about it because they have an outdated or expired e-mail address (which they don't use anymore) listed in their profile.

If you please, take a minute to make sure the e-mail address you have listed in your profile is the correct one. To do so, <ul type="square"> Click on My Home (next to Main Index above) then click on Edit next to the Personal information, email, password, etc. [/list]
Please note that there are two boxes: one for an Email address for administrative use only and which is not visible to other users, as well as a box for an Email address displayed in your profile. At the minimum, please provide the Email address for administrative use only. This e-mail address will not be available to anyone other than the moderators and will only ever be used if a warning / probation / suspension notice is to be sent to you. If you have privacy concerns, please feel free to the leave the Email address (displayed in profile) box blank.

In order to control people I use mass hypnosis and subliminal messaging. People are doing my bidding and dont even know it. :D

Everyone,
Here at last is a wonderful constructive idea. There are very serious charges indeed on this thread, and they deserve a deeper and more professional treatment than any denials or protestations I could make. We need a thorough investigation by an unbiased investigator, and Pat is offering to provide it. I accept with gratitude, because it is the only chance I have of clearing my name.
Please send all your examples of unprofessional and incompetent behavior on my part to the e-mail address that Pat provided. He can pursue his investigation alone, or with a subcommittee of his choosing. I await his judgement.
Peter Shive
Communications Director

Peter, I didn't see your name on the list of Board Candidates just posted. Have you decided not to run for the new term or retain your remaining one year of the current term?

Since he is still a current director who's term does not expire at this cycle, he should not be on the ballot. The fact that his resignation coincides with the end of the term for the positions up for election is irrelevant. If his resignation was effective before yesterday, then he could have run.

Peter,

I did post up on this thread about your job performance as Communication Director. I sent you a polite email that raised some questions I had with the probation you put me on, which was a reply to an email you sent to me. To this date, my reply has not been responded to. For me, it is much easier to reply to an email that was sent versus composing an email, like the one you sent me notifying me of my suspension. As for the conspiracy theories regarding your affiliation with Innova and the PDGA board, to me, they are very laughable. Please in the future know it is very responsible and professional as the Communications Director of our Association to reply to any questions members might send your way. I know that in my job that if I never responded to any emailed questions sent to me, then I would be shown the door. No hard feelings.
Jeff Peters #21730

Everyone,
Here at last is a wonderful constructive idea. There are very serious charges indeed on this thread, and they deserve a deeper and more professional treatment than any denials or protestations I could make. We need a thorough investigation by an unbiased investigator, and Pat is offering to provide it. I accept with gratitude, because it is the only chance I have of clearing my name.
Please send all your examples of unprofessional and incompetent behavior on my part to the e-mail address that Pat provided. He can pursue his investigation alone, or with a subcommittee of his choosing. I await his judgement.
Peter Shive
Communications Director



I respectfully submit that Pat Brenner is not unbiased in this matter. By the mere fact that he came on this thread started solely to harass a PDGA BOD member. Instead of standing up for his fellow BOD member while under attack, Pat added fuel to the fire, then fanned the flames while he watched Peter burn at the stake.

He has set up a lose-lose situation for you. If you do not answer his query, you lose. If you try to defend yourself, you will most certainly lose when the pirahnas start to feed. If he truly had a concern about valid issues that may have been raised here, he could have sent an email to you and the BOD privately and discussed it professionally.

I think Pat's behavior on this thread is far more telling of his ethics and sense of morals than any "wrongs" you may have committed. Of course, Mikey and his supporters will simply say I am a part of the vast INNOVA conspiracy. Even so, I understand right from wrong and I can certainly tell the difference between a search for the truth and a blatant witch hunt.

The fact that his resignation coincides with the end of the term for the positions up for election is irrelevant. If his resignation was effective before yesterday, then he could have run.



I believe the Board found no reason he couldn't legally run for a new 2-year term even with his resignation effective end of August.

Pat added fuel to the fire, then fanned the flames



<font color="red"> Fighting fires with fire is a common practice. One of the many reasons i will be voting for Pat. </font>

Fighting fires with fire is a common practice. One of the many reasons i will be voting for Pat.



While this may be true, it is not a recommended practice when fighting fires in the home. Fanning the flames is not a way to fight a fire, but how to make it burn faster.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/142293952_a6779f1d1d.jpg?v=0

Fighting fires with fire is a common practice. One of the many reasons i will be voting for Pat.



While this may be true, it is not a recommended practice when fighting fires in the home. Fanning the flames is not a way to fight a fire, but how to make it burn faster.



Actually, I think Hero is mixing his situations. The concept of fighting fires with fire is one that works for oil fires and forest fires. Let me re-point out what Discette has already said. If your neighbor's house is on fire, you don't light your's on fire to fight the fire in your neighbor's house. More so, we've seen clearly what happens when you fight fire with fire in a political situation. Just take a look at the mess our national politics is in. What an embarrassment, no matter which party you support. The last thing I'd want is for the PDGA to follow those morons in Washington.

Even more so, the concept that there is some fire in the PDGA is ludicrous at best. Over and over, a handful of posters on this site bring up "issues," some thing where they think there's a problem. Over and over, the real data shows that either they're wrong, they have unreal expectations relative to the growth of any sport, or they're being mis-leading.

So, what is the fire we're fighting here Hero? Let's get some issues here so once again we can go through them and discuss whether they are relevant in any real way.

BTW - since the most likely issue to be immediately raised is this MB, I will concede this MB is a mess. I might ask the question, is this MB playing some real role in the growth and promotion of this sport? Or is a play-ground for unproductive carping and funny commentary? If our measure of success for our sport is this MB, I might argue we're thinking about the wrong things...

I just read the opening post on this thread for the first time. Holy cow, that was darn funny shtick! Rebel needs to get a job with the Daily Show!

BTW - there is a solution. Wrap your head in tin foil. That will keep Harold from using his secret mind powers from influencing your decisions.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2497962742_c87db248a8_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2497962742/)

The MB is the cauldron. I just need a bigger spoon. :D

http://h1.ripway.com/sensei13/witch_stirring_pot_hg_clr.gif

To everyone, especially those who did not hear from me:
There are many reasons why a user may not have received a response from me. For example: I might not have received your request. Your profile may not list a valid e-mail address. I may not have considered your request reasonable (for example, I would not reply to a request to know when I became a communist/fascist/nazi etc, or why I insist on destroying the message board).
It is also possible that I did not respond to a reasonable request because of some mistake on my part. Certainly I could never prove that this has not happened. If this has happened, all I can do is apologize and ask that you resend your request, and I will reply to you as soon as I can.
But I have never deliberately refused to reply to a reasonable request.
Of course, I couldn't prove that either. I wouldn't expect you to believe me just because I say it is so, and you might not agree with my interpretation of "reasonable". This is why Pat's offer is so opportune. Pat says earlier in this thread, "please provide details, either here or in a PM or email to [email protected]". ([email protected]) Whether you believe me or not, please send Pat the full details of the matter, and we can be assured that he will get to the bottom of it and deliver a candid opinion.

I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone who did not put me on this Board last time I ran. I don't know what I was thinking.

My question is why don't you step up and fix the problem from the inside instead of griping about it from the outside. If you can do it so much better than the current BOD, show us all how its done.

I just read the opening post on this thread for the first time. Holy cow, that was darn funny shtick! Rebel needs to get a job with the Daily Show!

BTW - there is a solution. Wrap your head in tin foil. That will keep Harold from using his secret mind powers from influencing your decisions.



this just in... 'tin foil hats are now illegal in pdga play' ;)

I would just like to take a moment to thank everyone who did not put me on this Board last time I ran. I don't know what I was thinking.



That's funny. :D

You'd be an asset to the organization, BB. Then again, with what you and your bro' are doing on the local scene up yonder, you're already an asset to the organization. Keep up the good work...