If a disc is thrown high up into a dense tree, you see it all the way to the tree and the point where it entered the branches but you can't visually see it once you arrive at the tree, is that considered a lost disc/ re-tee or penalty because it's over two meters(it would be visual or on the ground otherwise)? I think it's a lost disc but I've heard other opinions. Where would you mark your lie? Why would it be different if you see a disc cross into o.b. (water) but never see it come to rest in o.b.? If you can't conclude it ended up in o.b., why then would you take it where it went out?

into tree: lost disc, retee. 2 meter rule is gone unless td states otherwise.

into water: treat as ob rather than lost provided the group consensus is it went ob.

I agree with John.

The difference with water and a tree is the with water you just have to be certain the disc is OB and not it's more specific location. Any disc you are going to play from you need to know it's exact location in order to play from it. Also, with water you know the disc did not come up out of the water, but with the tree, you can not be certain the disc did not come out the other side.

The standard in the rules is not "you have to be certain". It's "reasonable evidence." There is no "reasonable evidence" standard for over two meters, last I checked. If you hav e reasonable evidence that the disc is o.b., you play it o.b. and not lost. So that's where the rules treat a lost disc differently from a disc over two meters.

On a practical level, we've all seen a disc land in a tree and fall several feet within the tree before becoming stuck. So just because you see a disc disappear into a tree above two meters does not necessarily mean it is stuck above two meters. Also, if you don't know where it is in the tree, you cannot place a mini underneath it. So its lost, and not played as if it is above two meters.

Lost!

Is it OK for me to post on these threads now that I am a certified official? :cool::D

if you throw O.B. and you have to rethrow (lets say off the tee and roped OB... no water... to help keep things simple)... can you use that same disc (go and get it and come back)?

I have been told you can't but didnt see it in the rules.

I would assume the 30 seconds rule would apply here... if you threw OB and the disc is 50-100' away you should easily be able to get the disc and get back in time to throw.

As long as you can get it and throw within 30 seconds, no rule against retrieving it.

The 30 seconds doesn't start until after you fetch your disc:

A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,...



To say you have 30 seconds between the original shot and the rethrow doesn't jive with scenarios where it is another player's turn (e.g. you were first to throw off the tee) or where one needs to determine where the disc went OB (or if it is OB) and then decide which lie (previous or where it went out) to throw the subsequent shot.

So go fetch your disc if you want (you don't even have to run). The only time you can't go retrieve your disc is if you foot faulted off the tee. If they called a foot fault on your throw, then you may have just gotten off with a warning (and avoided the OB penalty), but will have to choose a new disc to retee with.

You can get to your disc and make that determination, but if you decide to retee you have 30 seconds to throw. One hundred feet or more down the fairway and it could be a challenge to get a good throw off in time. :D, It depends on how physically fit you are and how well you throw when winded, etc..

If the disc is obviously OB and reteeing is required by TD directive, then the clock will start when it's your turn and you'd have to sprint to the disc to get it. You can't go get it while other players are teeing or it's a courtesy violation, except perhaps if you had grip locked it and the shot ended up behind you OB :o.

If the status is not known that you are OB until your group goes to look for it, then you'll be able to retrieve the disc (if it can be done in reasonable time such as the 3 minutes for finding a "lost" disc) and use it wherever you are allowed to mark your lie including retee.

I think your question though was more about whether there is any restriction on using a disc, from a throw that gets penalized, on other shots remaining on the hole. I know some think that there's a restriction but it's one of those non-rules some think is a rule. I've heard of TDs stating that for a certain OB, usually cement, players can't use a disc that goes OB for that hole or even the rest of the round. TDs can't apply that restriction for PDGA events without approval from the Comp Director, but for unsanctioned play, it would be OK.

You can get to your disc and make that determination, but if you decide to retee you have 30 seconds to throw. One hundred feet or more down the fairway and it could be a challenge to get a good throw off in time. :D, It depends on how physically fit you are and how well you throw when winded, etc..



There's no hard time limit on choosing which lie to mark. If it takes a walk back to the tee to decide, the clock hasn't started ticking. The 30 seconds is AFTER the lie is marked(chosen).

A couple of responses. A disc above 2 meters is NOT OB. It can be a penality if the TD claims it as such, but the rules no longer even imply it is OB. I believe several years back it was "treated as OB", but that is not in the rule book anymore, therefore, you cannot use a group majority to determine if it is OB or not. If you saw it go into the tree and you cannot find it, the rules don't allow you to do anything other than call it lost. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this, it is simply a strict interpt of the rules.

Can you re-use an OB disc? There is nothing in the rule book that says otherwise, therefore you can. One statement made was you have a certain amount of time, which you do, once you have marked your lie, you have 30 seconds, uninterrupted to throw. My suggestion, don't mark you disc until you have either retrieved the disc or be fast.

You can get to your disc and make that determination, but if you decide to retee you have 30 seconds to throw. One hundred feet or more down the fairway and it could be a challenge to get a good throw off in time. :D, It depends on how physically fit you are and how well you throw when winded, etc..



There's no hard time limit on choosing which lie to mark. If it takes a walk back to the tee to decide, the clock hasn't started ticking. The 30 seconds is AFTER the lie is marked(chosen).


I agree except you have already seen the lie from the tee, so if you are going back to the tee, you have already made your decision and have 30 seconds to make you next shot.

I would consider walking back from your OB spot to the tee to have started the 30 seconds to make your shot. There is no hard set time limit, but it must be reasonable and not holding your or other groups up is part of what I consider reasonable. IMHO

I think your question though was more about whether there is any restriction on using a disc, from a throw that gets penalized, on other shots remaining on the hole. I know some think that there's a restriction but it's one of those non-rules some think is a rule. I've heard of TDs stating that for a certain OB, usually cement, players can't use a disc that goes OB for that hole or even the rest of the round. TDs can't apply that restriction for PDGA events without approval from the Comp Director, but for unsanctioned play, it would be OK.



thats the gist of it... if you can reuse that disc or not... ya'll can argue/debate when the 30 seconds starts ;)

one thing that came to mind though from the 2nd part of your statement was... I played in a tourney (PDGA B tier) where the TD declared that if your disc goes OB in the water you can't retrieve it until the end of the round... (i forget the penalty if you do... it was more than a courtesy or warning and I think a DQ).
The course plays around a cement pond/pool in a public park that eats up discs.
So you're saying that technically he can't make that decree on the spot?

This actually made me run into another mis-informed rules issue with my group (only putter I had went OB... i borrowed an extra from my buddy on another card and guys in my group gave me a hard time about it saying it was against the rules... which I knew it wasnt)

btw... after the round I was able to get my putter out in less than 10 seconds (and added extra putters to my bag for the rest of the tourney ;)

The only reason the TD could say you can't retrieve an OB disc might be a protected water area or unsafe one (like the Fountain Hills pond). However, if it's not OK to go in during the round, it wouldn't be OK after the round either. There's nothing in the rules short of an exception from the Comp Director that prevents players from retrieving discs during the round as long as it's within allowable time contraints that doesn't slow play or a legal reason established by the park authorities.

yeah... no illegal reason or safety concerns. And quite a few had golden retriever tools (as seen here http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TR7ivMNqL._SS500_.jpg)

I think it was for speed of play since they packed the course full (but it obviously still doesnt make it right)

I would consider walking back from your OB spot to the tee to have started the 30 seconds to make your shot.



Based on what rule? The point of the 30 second rule is to prevent people from standing at their lie all die waiting for the wind to die down / pick up. It is not meant to turn disc golf into speed golf.

i think thats a silly rule to even argue about... 99.9999% of the time there is some sort of 'distraction' that can extend the time for the person allowing them more time right?

I just don't like seeing non-rules being repeated as rules when they aren't.

A: "I guess my disc is OB, I think I'd rather play it from the last lie"
B: "You have 30 seconds. Go."
A: "Huh? Where is that in the rules? Walk back with me to the tee and you can show it to me in the rules"
B walks with A back to the tee ruffling through his bag to find his tattered rule book and is flipping through trying to find the rule. The whole time he is muttering.
45 seconds later, A is at the tee.
B: I think I found it...
A: Fine. Start the 30 seconds now since the clock restarts once the area is free of distractions.

OK, I guess it doesn't matter. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

You have 30 seconds after you arrive at the disc and mark the lie anyway. If you find the disc OB and decide the use the previous lie, the previous lie is the active lie and your time doesn't start until you get there.

The exception here would be if the TD has restricted the OB options to re-tee and the disc was clearly OB (by sight or by spotter signal). Then there would be no reason to inspect the disc and you have already reached the active lie.

So if someone foot faults while doinking a putt on hole 21 at DeLaveaga and their putt rolls down the hill, would you still only give them 30 seconds to retrieve their putter even though the rules explicitly allow retrieval for putts in the circle? If not, why should this OB case be any different?

You have 30 seconds after you arrive at the disc and mark the lie anyway. If you find the disc OB and decide the use the previous lie, the previous lie is the active lie and your time doesn't start until you get there.



Technically speaking, the 30 seconds doesn't start until somone puts a clock on it... :p

I use the stipulation that if the disc goes in someone fenced yard, you CANNOT jump the fence to get it as that is trespassing. You can hop the park fence to get a disc, but not one into private property. I like to keep the park neighbors happy or at least not hunked off. ;)

Here too. Except over the fence is the Police Dept. Bomb Squad, and they have made it very clear that they don't want any fence jumpers. ;) GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL, DO NOT COLLECT $200!