Pleased to find some current detailed budget
information on the site.

http://www.pdga.com/org/documents/2008/08PDGABudget-Detailed.pdf

Progress.

thanks
steve timm

PDGA financial information for the past three years can be found here:

http://pdga.com/org/index.php

This includes organizational documents required by Colorado law (where we are incorporated) as well as other information.

Regards,
Brian Graham
PDGA Executive Director

The pDGA's secret yacht, the "Hell" has frozen over

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/30/frozen_ship.jpg

I think that's docked near Toronto Island right now... :eek:

is that where Lynx docks it?

If you only could think of a Canadian disc golfer...

Ok, here's one...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/togolane/NicolePuljiz.jpg

Nicole is a regular at Toronto's Centennial Park course.

Disc Golf Organization's Doomsday Plan Fails

Exclusive Report for Fair and Balanced News

AUGUSTA, GA (AP)

Fair and Balanced News has learned that last week, the "Professional" Disc Golf Association launched a terrorist attack they thought would destroy the entire world.

Apparently, many members of the largest disc golf sanctioning organization thought the "world would end" if the pDGA actually allowed all its members to know how their nearly one-million dollar budget was spent...so they published a detailed income/expense report on their own website in a somewhat misguided plot to destroy the planet.

"I can no longer live in a world where the number three pro disc golfer in North Carolina can't make a living off his winnings," said pDGA member Len Roberts. "The situation is hopeless, and i wanted the world to end because people just don't understand that disc golf should be on the news every night. So I urged our Board of Directors to publish the financials because they always told us the world would end if they did!"

Department of Homeland Security agents were thought to be looking for key pDGA headquarters staff on Tuesday, but were stymied by what officials termed "a lack of concrete evidence that disc golf actually exists".

According to DHS spokesperson Julie Barkenfrogg, "Little is known about this cult called 'disc golf', since it has never been televised and probably won't be for another fifteen years. But we're trying to locate this extremely small group of troublemakers. We have heard that they really love to rock the ganj though so we've called in our K-9 squad and they'll be out of the woods in no time."

I can't wait to see the new $30,000 website and the results of the $6,000 election! I bet both are gonna be state-of-the-art.

I can't wait to see the new $30,000 website and the results of the $6,000 election! I bet both are gonna be state-of-the-art.



:confused: :( :mad::eek: :confused:

So what's the running total we have spent on a new, non-working website?

a running total will not tell the full story. remember, the folks behind this get a percentage of the PDGA's revenue. that saves us money in the long run by allowing us to spend less upfront. then the extra we spend later will come from the extra revenues that the new site creates, so we wont miss it. for a better explanation, ask Bob Decker. he cast the deciding vote on the awarding of this contract.

remember, the folks behind this get a percentage of the PDGA's revenue



huh? are you talking about any add space we sell?

yes, but not limited to that., at least according to the contract as it was when i last saw it.

what else is there except honey pots they shouldn't be dipping into (like membership dues, TD fees, etc)?

it was unclear to me exactly where the line would be drawn, and that was one reason the concept earned a nay from me. at one point it was offered any increase of certain revenue, such as online registration fees, would be shared. that is, if last year was 10,000 in online "convenience fees", and next year is 15,000, then the website designers wouldget some pertentage of the 5,000 difference. the line may be more clearly defined now; i have not seen the final contract.

OK, I'm confused now. I thought we were paying someone to develop and implement the new site. But, on another thread, Theo said he's been working on it for over 2 months as a volunteer. So, did we:
a) pay someone and then ran out of money, or decided to give it to volunteers?
b) pay someone for consulting and volunteers have done the work?
c) pay someone and they didn't do what was desired so it was handed to volunteers?
d) pay a volunteer's entity to do and now they are doing it for "free"?
e) some combination of all or some of the above?

OK, I'm confused now. I thought we were paying someone to develop and implement the new site. But, on another thread, Theo said he's been working on it for over 2 months as a volunteer. So, did we:
a) pay someone and then ran out of money, or decided to give it to volunteers?
b) pay someone for consulting and volunteers have done the work?
c) pay someone and they didn't do what was desired so it was handed to volunteers?
d) pay a volunteer's entity to do and now they are doing it for "free"?
e) some combination of all or some of the above?



Try this, volunteers are working on the site, when they complete the site they are no longer volunteers and they get paid royalties from the profits that will be created as a result of doing their volunteer work.

I don't know this, but from what Pat said in an earlier post, that is what it sounded like to me.

BTW: I'll volunteer on that basis ALL DAY!!!!

the office and theo contracted someone for 30K to redo the site.

that guy/company didnt work out. fortunately, only a small part of the 30K had been spent.

theo found another company, this one apparently more solid.
this company proposed that instead of giving them 30K for a site redo, that we give them 75K for a much more aggressive re-do. they would include lots of cool new features, etc etc.

instead of paying them 75K in cash they worked out a prooposal with Theo's help that would give them a certain amount gauranteed, and the rest to be captured out of revenue generated from the site. of course, that could mean they would ultimately get a whole lot more than 75K. or maybe a bit less, but not less than some minimum specified in the contract.

so, we contracted with a for-profit company - a real company - to do the new site. our volunteers are trying to fit the old functionalities (course duirectory, results, etc) into the new page layouts and formats. yes, for 75K one might expect all that to be provided. but, we are not privy to the details of the contract (it was NOT put out to bid, in keeping with the predilections of the current PDGA leadership) so we dont know exactly who is doing what, and for how much.

i am VERY appreciative of the new site. but honestly, the changes so far are worth less than $1000 cash. any semi-experienced CMS designer could create a template for us. templates clubs provide as much flexibility for $12 per year subscription. hopefully we will see some actual new features for our 75K. or our 50% of the revenue. or for the whatever the deal ended up being.

It would be interesting to know who the principals are in this company (In other words, who's pocket is getting lined). Also, I am not surprised by the fact it was NOT bid out to several other "Professional" companies. That in itself causes one to wonder who is the "Real" beneficiary. :confused: :confused:

Does anyone else think that the PDGA is "Penny wise but Pound foolish"? (ie. the Mag, the website, the programming, etc.)

Why is that?

i dont think anyone believes the PDGA to be pennywise. you may find believers in the poundfooish side though.

to the PDGA: where are the minutes of the BOD meeting of September 3, 2008?

TWO MONTHS after the meeting and no published minutes is unacceptable.

Is anyone interested in seeing the PDGA's IRS form 990 from the last 3 years?

Guess its just easy spending money that isnt yours. 75k for this site is a joke.

I just have one question. With the unreal money the PDGA is making, why cant they donate at least 100k of it to fund a real Pro tour?

10 stops, 10k added at each stop all major markets. It seems like common sense to me, actually it seems low, but it would be a re-investment that is much needed.

How much longer are they( we ) going to depend on people to build these great tourneys with virtually no help? Face it, no money, no draw. Most TDs I know bust thier *** to go out pounding on doors and visiting business after business doing all the PDGA legwork.....only to cut them a huge check. For keeping score and telling you what they determined your worth to be at that event... basically. 99% do it for nothing more than a thank you, and your telling me we spent 75k on this website? I really dont give a rats about UNDER ARMOUR or the AD Council.

Elections are coming up.

Run on that platform.

Find 4 others to run on the same platform and take over.

Surely most disc golfers would prefer a portion of their dues and fees be spent to support our top players, instead of on resources for all. It's just common sense. Right?

Hells yes, I know I've just been waiting for the chance to give Nate Doss my PIN number

Hells yes, I know I've just been waiting for the chance to give Nate Doss my PIN number

Nate would probably spend your pounds more wisely than the pDGA does.

Instead of asking the PDGA to pony up, why not ask the disc/basket manufacturers? They are the ones that will profit from the growth of the sport, not the PDGA.

Instead of asking the PDGA to pony up, why not ask the disc/basket manufacturers? They are the ones that will profit from the growth of the sport, not the PDGA.

But the PDGA is "making unreal money"! (Source: a post earlier this morning).

Perhaps we should also tap the disc retailers, also.

OK, now I think you're just being silly. Maybe you need to take a break from "Stoney" Hill DGC. :o

Caught me.

From what I've seen, the big disc/basket companies already do put in a lot of $$$ for the top players. Could they do more? Possibly, and they probably do have big plans for the future as far as sponsorship for players and events.

But the PDGA is "making unreal money"! (Source: a post earlier this morning).

Perhaps we should also tap the disc retailers, also.

I sent them enough money last year for running sanctioned events. I also advertise other PDGA events in the area through my business. Id say they are tapping into the disc retailers.

As far as asking the disc companies, I dont think it matters. They make who knows how many x more off recreational players or non pdga affiliated players. You can only ask them for so much before people cry about how its "Innova's PDGA" or whoevers PDGA.

Id say 60% of our new visitors to the shop have no idea what the PDGA is, but 95% know what Innova is.

Elections are coming up.

Run on that platform.

Find 4 others to run on the same platform and take over.


Surely most disc golfers would prefer a portion of their dues and fees be spent to support our top players, instead of on resources for all. It's just common sense. Right?


Maybe I will. Shouldnt be hard to find 4 other players that think the PDGA could be alot better than it is, and could easily do more for the players spending the amount of money they do to help build it. Or, rather, shouldnt be hard to find 4 people that feel they can do a better job than what is being done. Its not about taking over though, your wrong about that. If that were the case Id look for 4 people eager to share in the PDGA pie.

Actually, yes it is. Until people can make a living playing this sport, it isnt going to be taken seriously. Why is it called the PDGA if you cant help support the pros? Players Disc Golf Association maybe. Everything on this site couldve been done for under 10k, you couldve taken the other 65k and put it into the 6 richest events, non-major. Couple that with what the hard wroking TDs, Clubs, and voluteers have solicited in local sponsorship and you could end up with massive purses....and tons of attention. To me, it makes more sense than buying and building a facility in Georgia half the members wont ever make it to, or again, spending an absurd amount of money on a website. Just my opinion.

I think it's great when people with different opinions or new ideas are willing to go beyond complaining, and offer themselves up for office. Though there are dozens of things I wish were different about the PDGA, I know that I'm not willing to serve on the board, so I temper my criticism. So go for it---your vision may lead the sport to new heights. Or you may find that the majority of the membership is less concerned with the top of the pyramid. Either way, you'll be contributing more than I do.

Oh, and the bit about taxing disc retailers was meant to be a joke---something I should also refrain from.

Chase, make sure you add the $1 from every entry towards worlds provision which would create $125,000 in added cash and the more events you play the more you put in so that those players who earn a lot of points and go to worlds are rewarded.


According to the ED that is a tax on the players and will never happen although they already tax us $3-$5 in which we never see again. At least the $1 "tax" would support those who support the PDGA the most.

These threads are the funnest. So what does it cost to develop a web site like this? What is the typical cost to a typical company? The notion of using a CMS is a nice one, but doesn't forgo cost. Tying a CMS based web site into data acquisition requires a reasonably skilled programmer. Putting together a development plan and bringing it to fruition is a responsible, yet time consuming project. Comparing the structure of such a site to that of a local club might not be a great idea.

Now, I don't know how this went, but I know what our company just paid internally to redevelop their web site, it wasn't cheap, but we have security issues and coordination issues way beyond what occurs here. But that experience has lead me to believe that the price ticket might not be low. Perhaps some kind of an outline of the operational change might salve the ire of some who think this was a waste of money?

BTW - I'd be curious to know, did we use a CMS and if so, what got used, there are CMS' and CMS'. Some sell themselves well and are... quite bad. The best ones is free, See Open CMS for example. On that note if we didn't use a CMS, why not, such sites are way easier to manage and modify?

As for using current volunteers to move the current data to the new site, this seems wise to me. A familiarity with the data and data structure will make for a smoother transition. Of course that still leaves the open question, why do it and was it worth the money?

In terms of our goals, yes, un-categorically. Let me begin by saying that I hate this site, I don't like modern advertising, and I like clean and unencumbered. That said, if I go cruising on the www, I find that the sites that are considered the most professional, that get the greatest attention, and have the highest marketing value, look surprisingly like ours. If our goal is to garner attention and appear professional to sponsors, then this site, like it or not, does that. You can hate it all you want, but the board is doing their job, now whether they did it cost effectively, well, that I can't judge.

On a different note, the notion that the PDGA should do more handouts to the Pros comes up frequently. If we take universities as a comparison, one could argue that universities should spend their endowments educating people, free tuition baby. They don't because they use that money to grow the university, it's reputation, acquisition of talent, and recognizable art. That is how they become famous and even richer, not by giving their endowments to their students. The philosophy is founded in basic good business practices and is pretty universally used in many areas.

Maybe I will. Shouldnt be hard to find 4 other players that think the PDGA could be alot better than it is, and could easily do more for the players spending the amount of money they do to help build it. Or, rather, shouldnt be hard to find 4 people that feel they can do a better job than what is being done. Its not about taking over though, your wrong about that. If that were the case Id look for 4 people eager to share in the PDGA pie.

Actually, yes it is. Until people can make a living playing this sport, it isnt going to be taken seriously. Why is it called the PDGA if you cant help support the pros? Players Disc Golf Association maybe. Everything on this site couldve been done for under 10k, you couldve taken the other 65k and put it into the 6 richest events, non-major. Couple that with what the hard wroking TDs, Clubs, and voluteers have solicited in local sponsorship and you could end up with massive purses....and tons of attention. To me, it makes more sense than buying and building a facility in Georgia half the members wont ever make it to, or again, spending an absurd amount of money on a website. Just my opinion.

Until fairly recently, it's been hard to find 4 people willing to do the job at all. Or, more precisely, 4 people who were not already serving on the board, willing to put their name up for election and risk being chosen.

Regarding the organization name, I believe the membership was surveyed several years ago and chose to keep "Professional" in the name, despite the fact that we're something like 70% Amateurs (by our definition), and I'd guess less than 5% make any money at all (cash winnings exceeding entry fees & expenses), let alone making a living.