Here is a flyer and a registration form for this year's Kansas City Wide Open:

Flyer:
http://www.kcfdc.org/docs/08_KCWO_flyer.pdf

Registration Form:
http://www.kcfdc.org/docs/08KCWO_flyer_schedule_info1.pdf


Westin Crown Center is the host hotel, call and ask for the disc golf rate. Rooms are only available until 5/24 at the drastically reduced rate.

More information at:
www.kcfdc.org (http://www.kcfdc.org)

signed up today and got my plane ticket. Cant wait to play that Blue Valley course, and of course TThe Water Works.

Are these the same courses that will be played for Worlds next year?

several nice thumber opps out there at blue valley for you schweb

Are these the same courses that will be played for Worlds next year?



These will be included. We haven't finalized what divisions will be playing which courses yet...we've got a year to pin that down.

Chap

Unique '08 logo, I like it alot!

chapman is on it. These courses will be used, the only thing that I can say is that is that we have GREAT courses

Bummer no Swope for the Pros.....

Bummer no Swope for the Pros.....



You want some payback JD?

Bummer no Swope for the Pros.....



You want some payback JD?


Yes on Blue Valley, But Swope is a fun course, bummer we wont be using it this year. I hope and plan on going up to KC always a fun time.

Bummer no Swope for the Pros.....



You want some payback JD?


Yes on Blue Valley, But Swope is a fun course, bummer we wont be using it this year. I hope and plan on going up to KC always a fun time.




Blue Valley is strange in that not only is it long but depending on your distance you can judge what you would shoot there. If you can throw 350 you can break 60, throw 420 you can get low 60s, and all the rounds I have seen in the 50's were by distance freaks like Coda and Markus.

Yes on Blue Valley, But Swope is a fun course, bummer we wont be using it this year. I hope and plan on going up to KC always a fun time.



First time I played Swope it was early in the morning one summer. It was quiet, peaceful and beautiful, I was loving it. I was on hole 6'ish when I heard this crazy roaring sound over and over. It sent chills down my spine. I found out later that the Zoo was right around the corner and that was the Lion roaring.

Bummer no Swope for the Pros.....



You want some payback JD?


Yes on Blue Valley, But Swope is a fun course, bummer we wont be using it this year. I hope and plan on going up to KC always a fun time.




Blue Valley is strange in that not only is it long but depending on your distance you can judge what you would shoot there. If you can throw 350 you can break 60, throw 420 you can get low 60s, and all the rounds I have seen in the 50's were by distance freaks like Coda and Markus.



Ron Convers shot 59 last year.....he's no distance freak. He throws it far enough, but he's no Markus. Just a solid player.

Chap

The host hotel reservation guarantee is ending this Saturday the 17th, if you want to stay at the best place in KC (well other than Pete's) you shuold call and book now. This is the place where all the information will be at, not only for the Wide Open, but also for next year's worlds. Learn how to get to the courses this year, so you will not be late next year!!

Thanks,

Jack

Disc golf rate of $134.night, normal rate of $289/night, split 4 ways, less than $50/night, and I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.

Westin Crown Center will be the Host hotel for the 2009 Pro/Am Worlds, and the 26th Wide Open....

www.crowncenter.com (http://www.crowncenter.com)

Located in the heart of downtown Kansas City, Crown Center is often called a city within a city. Three levels of great shopping and dining compliment two of the city�s most luxurious hotels, exquisite office buildings, a residential community and several entertainment attractions. It all surrounds the worldwide headquarters of Hallmark Cards, Inc. Bring your family and your imagination for an unforgettable visit to Crown Center.

Yeah Pete's

The host hotel reservation guarantee is ending this Saturday the 17th, if you want to stay at the best place in KC (well other than Pete's) you shuold call and book now. This is the place where all the information will be at, not only for the Wide Open, but also for next year's worlds. Learn how to get to the courses this year, so you will not be late next year!!

Thanks,

Jack

Disc golf rate of $134.night, normal rate of $289/night, split 4 ways, less than $50/night, and I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.

Westin Crown Center will be the Host hotel for the 2009 Pro/Am Worlds, and the 26th Wide Open....

www.crowncenter.com (http://www.crowncenter.com)

Located in the heart of downtown Kansas City, Crown Center is often called a city within a city. Three levels of great shopping and dining compliment two of the city�s most luxurious hotels, exquisite office buildings, a residential community and several entertainment attractions. It all surrounds the worldwide headquarters of Hallmark Cards, Inc. Bring your family and your imagination for an unforgettable visit to Crown Center.



Keep it coming Jack, I am posting to the home site. We have some good AMs that are totally interested but never been to the biggest game :cool:. I will call/see ya in less than 3 weeks. The same pros will be there, and hopefully some new ones + plus, some NEW AMs.

Peace, my friend

Wanna play for free......get someone to sponsor the event, you are in....

http://www.kcfdc.org/docs/2008KCWOsponsorship.pdf

schwebby, yeah 4am pool party at pete's...good times!

ILOVESTEVEBRINSTER!
Q-Sent is sooo what U need!
huk lab girls have more fun

Nice.....C ya soon!

Any Texas guys looking to go to the KCWO this year? Would love to split gas since it's darn near $4 a gallon, and the room too since it's a 3-day event. I've got one, maybe two others looking to go, but we're hoping for a group of 4 or 5.

Thx,
DH

schwebby, yeah 4am pool party at pete's...good times!

And You know this Lesli Brinster!!!!!!!!!!!! It will probably happen again......CANTT WAITT

Derrick...Keep looking...you'll love the tourney. I'll be there..but don't let that change your mind. ;) (my inlaws are up there...so the whole fam goes up...its like a vacation from my vacation for me).

Looking forward to seeing all of you here!!

Come on and sign up, so we can plan accordingly!

85 pre-registered, guess we'll close it off at 90 this year!

Wow, that will make for an easy event!!
:)

yes it will

How far is Blue Valley from the Airport?

35 minutes.

Courses had some great workdays this past weekend, and should be getting a haircut over teh next few days, sure are looking forward to having you all come to town!!

Thanks,

Jack

about 30 minutes on the interstate. Take I-435 east from airport about 25 miles to 23rd St. Exit (Exit 61). Turn right (west) on 23rd St., go 1.5 miles, and the course will be on your left. The course is at the corner of 23rd and Topping.

Chap

are we having clinics for the WO this year? i read somewhere that Schweb and possibly the Readings would be doing the NT clinics.

NT CLinics at Blue Valley on Thursday at 4.

Usual suspects should be involved.

are you giving the clinics on BSing this year jack? :)

Thanks Chappy, C yall in few daze

75 folks enjoyed a great pro clinic up in Minnesota.

The PDGA, National Tour and the Touring Players present:

The National Tour Clinic Series

Blue Valley Disc Golf Course
5:00--7:00 pm
Thursday, June 5th

Instructors from Innova, Discraft and Gateway discs:

Brian Schweberger (Thumbers, Forehands and Rollers, oh my!)
Cale Leiviska (Driving on a Rope)
Eric McCabe (Putting to Win)
Justin Bunnell (Approaching Success)

Jay Reading will be hosting this free to the public instructional clinic for all levels of disc golfer. Come learn from the Pros. Non-Tournament attendees will receive a spectator raffle ticket for a chance at some sweet gear from Innova Champion Discs!

Instructors from Innova, Discraft and Gateway discs:

Brian Schweberger (Thumbers, Forehands and Rollers, oh my!)
Cale Leiviska (Driving on a Rope)
Eric McCabe (Putting to Win)
Justin Bunnell (Approaching Success)





What? No Scoobie instruction? :)

I can do some scoobies to if YOU show up.

what about thumber water skip approaches? I like them, Schweb...

what about thumber water skip approaches? I like them, Schweb...


jesus! ;)

Thanks Yeti,

Posted it in our discussion room ,and a few others in the area.

Thanks,

Jack

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c


Good Luck TThis weekend!!

Would it be inappropriate to video tape parts of the clinic? Not to be used for profit or anything, but to document and remember what is said by certain pro's?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c


Good Luck TThis weekend!!



TThis is why he is TThe Pro. Go get'um Sun

Would it be inappropriate to video tape parts of the clinic? Not to be used for profit or anything, but to document and remember what is said by certain pro's?

I dont see Y not.

good luck schweb, you're my pick in fantasy disc golf this week! no pressure!

there is never any pressure, except the pressure that you puTT on yourself. I am going to this event to have fun, hang out with some friends and play some great courses.

I cannot wait to throw some disc.

Bummed I'll miss this one for sure... Go Hemme's! Two division winers maybe? ;)

off to the Airport I go........Landing in KC at 08:30

geT There

wish I could be there again.... Blue Valley is calling my name...

Not advised: Playing Blue Valley blind... as a lefty. Or maybe that's how you need to do it... I scored well on the par 4s, just not on the "par 3s"

Lets go NC

"par 3s"



You mean all 5 of them?

yeah, but mainly 2 and 14? 14 was the one that I wish was listed as a 4. It is simply unreachable by humans. Kallstrom is NOT human. :)

Had I played it like a par 4, I would have easily threed it. instead I went all "rip the hell out of my drive" and went in the woods, laid out and made a great bogey save.

hole 2 I just plain messed up, almost hitting folks on the tee of like 10.

go get em' Schweb!!! not sure if you have an NT win yet but maybe this is the one!?

(from the pdga main page)
The Wide Open has been symbolic with friendship, and lately initial NT wins for someone on the scene looking to crack that threshold. Last year saw Kyle Crabtree winning his first-ever NT event. Josh Anthon won the Wide Open in 2006 by Coda Hatfield missing some critical putts on the last hole. Josh would head to DGLO the next stop on the NT and win there as well! Chris Sprague won the event in 2005 for his first NT victory

I don't think Schwe has won an NT yet. However....placing in the top 5 3 years in a row at the USDGC's is quite more impressive than winning any NT! So....I would say that he is due....

Everything OK in KC after the storms rolled thru?

Everything OK in KC after the storms rolled thru?



I had a friend call me from the Wakarusa festival in Lawrence, KS (about 40 miles west of KC) who said the thunderstorms were so intense (and with tornado warnings) that they canceled most of the music last night.

It was LOUD and BRIGHT last night fo sho...got an inch of rain, too!

Good Luck to ALL KCWO competitors! :cool:

Live scoring?

Live scoring?


??

Live scoring?


??


??
: ) :

Live scoring?


??


???
: ) :



????

and the webpage for the KCWO still had 2007 info on it

Got to love those NT events. I guess what makes them special is the extra day of work you have to miss.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c


Good Luck TThis weekend!!



Did that skip inbounds?

Got to love those NT events. I guess what makes them special is the extra day of work you have to miss.


I think for "Pros" it's an extra day that they "work"...

first round scores are up.

is it just me or does it look like te ratings are a tad low?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c


Good Luck TThis weekend!!



Did that skip inbounds?



If you look carefully you'll see it skip off of the water, land, and roll right next to the basket. :D

is it just me or does it look like te ratings are a tad low?


Average of Player Ratings = 959.6
Average of Round 1 Ratings = 960.9
Ratings are a tad high but without checking there might be one or two non-props in my calc.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c
iTT did a victory lap around the pole!!

Good Luck TThis weekend!!



Did that skip inbounds?

GO SPROUT!!!!!

Also got to shout out to my top 10 buddies! Lets go Hemmi and Hickman!!!!

Man I wish I was there!

Looks like Miles just shot the hot round of the tournament.
1062 rated round......Go MILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Lone Texan at this NT event.

He needed it after that first round

Does anyone know where Feldberg and the Jenkins siblings are?

Does anyone know where Feldberg and the Jenkins siblings are?



Getting ready for Japan.

He needed it after that first round



No freakin joke! I got water worked the first round. But its all good!

A couple more rounds like that and the USDGC spot is yours. I have a feeling that you will dominate at bluevalley.

Waterworks then Rosedale? Or were they both at WW?


Shoot low 60's at BV and you'll be good.

Tee times are up. They changed slghtly after cleaning them up had a few bad time slots, NO ONE got an earlier time frame, and nothing is less than 15 minute difference.

I do apologize, and what fun it was to watch. Good luck to everyone tomorrow.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=7287

Jack

so whats the course record on the course tomorrow? just trying to figure out what Schweb is going to shoot! ;)

GO GET EM SCHWEB!!!

Brinster [censored] 57 last year. There were also a couple of 58's. Ron Converse was the first player to break 60 in a tourney.

To answer the question 57.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6q4QAWSED0c


Good Luck TThis weekend!!



Did that skip inbounds?

Sjur did, parked iTT

Live scoring??

Nothing? It should be mando!!!!

Its still way too early; the pros haven't even teed off yet.

2nd! I think we're starting to grow enough to get to a point to demand certain things of NTs and live scoring could/should be one of the items on the list.

When do they tee?

lead card is 1:10 (2:10 our time)

Live scoring??



I can't find it. That sucks!

Oh yea....GO MILES!

No live scoring! I look forward to this while working on the weekends.
It should be mandatory for NT's to have live scoring.

Perhaps a subscription service might be feasible next year with the upgraded PDGA website. Receipts could get allocated to each A-tier, NT or Championship that participates after paying their scorekeeper time and expenses.

what is the trouble with live scoring???

It takes ONE PERSON and a phone with texting capabilities, and another that can enter the info onto a computer. OR a bunch of people with walkie talkies, and a person posting all the info on the web. It's not that hard, and I think it's far better allocation than a Marshal. You don't need any special skills to radio in scores, any local who is not playing could do it, and don't you think any local would be glad to follow one of the top groups around for a day? OK, maybe not at Blue Valley, but anywhere else would be great.

If it has economic value and demand, it should be paid for if we're professionalizing the sport. It's not like the feed would be going anywhere outside the narrow group of interested users that are players. Since arguably the pro dues are paying for the marshals, I could see having the service free for pro members and charge for everyone else as another pro benefit for the difference in their dues.

I don't see any problem with that. I'd glady pay a few more bucks for live scoring access.

Getting paid subscriptions and tracking the numbers would be another useful selling point that could be shown to sponsors that this sport may in fact have online spectators willing to pay even if they don't show up at the events. In addition, once the process is established, there would be incentive to continually raise the bar by getting almost live commentary, potentially dots, etc.

If it has economic value and demand, it should be paid for if we're professionalizing the sport. It's not like the feed would be going anywhere outside the narrow group of interested users that are players. Since arguably the pro dues are paying for the marshals, I could see having the service free for pro members and charge for everyone else as another pro benefit for the difference in their dues.



...that's if you don't feel dues are too high for the value already...

i agree with matt that it's a better use of resources than marshal's.

I thought that we paid dues already? Part of those dues goes to fund the NT series, it would be nice if the people who contribute could actually enjoy the NTs DURING the NTs. Again, this is not rocket science. It's literally a few hours work per day from a few people. A person with a phone or walkie talkie, and a person at a computer.

We had 5 cards of live scoring at the Carolina Clash without any PDGA support. It was just people with phones or Walkie Talkies and a guy with a webpage he published whenever there were new scores to enter. It would be fine if there was a blog too. It's the era of live internet info. We all have phones capable of texting info. The NT series without live scoring is just a bunch of events that get special treatment and funding but don't deliver the goods we have come to expect from the NT series in the past few years.

Marshals eat up travel expenditures. Especially in this day and age of expensive travel, it seems marshals are a waste of our dollars. After last week's NT, I'm not sure they are really doing much good other than taking the decisions out of the pros and making a decision that should have simply been relegated to a provisional and a meeting with the TD. Provisionals are a lot cheaper than Marshals.

Marshals suck up lots of expenses, travel, lodging, meals.

The NT series without live scoring is just a bunch of events that get special treatment and funding but don't deliver the goods we have come to expect from the NT series in the past few years.

[/QUOTE]


good point!

The marshal was the one doing live scoring at the Majestic at least on Saturday. He would have on Sunday but the PDGA site was down when he was trying to get ready for scoring. There's a group looking at what the pros get for their dues differential with marshals being part of that. As it is, the pros are getting more than they pay for based on totaling the numbers I saw at the Summit. So, trimming back marshals could be where the savings or trade-off comes to provide other things for pros.

That still doesn't mean the pros wouldn't benefit from a pay service for live scoring from the standpoint of producing spectator numbers for sponsors. You don't get spectators some way, you don't get sponsor money.

Enough jibber jabber..

Go Miles go!!!!

Bring it back home to Fort Worth Miles!!! GO GO

JUst like the PDGA,
wanting MORE $ for something that they should already provide.

<font color="green">JUst like the PDGA,
wanting MORE $ for something that they should already PROvide??? </font>

I just got a call and the lead group is now done.


We should have some results before long. I was kind of thinking with tee times, we might get a few groups updated at a time. Even that would have been fun to watch.

Marshalls are worthless, every player knows this. How about letting us hire scorekeepers. look what the marshalls did at the minn. maj!!!!!! live scoring is the least we could expect.

JUst like the PDGA, wanting MORE $ for something that they should already provide.



Convenient to make the PDGA the punching bag for a service that's not part of your membership benefits but provided by the tournaments themselves, except for Worlds where the PDGA has sufficient scoring staff and equipment. Marshals only do scoring if the TD deploys them that way. Not every marshal has a mobile device with internet access so another volunteer may be needed to phone scores to an internet port. If TD doesn't plan for live scoring and/or gets no volunteers for it, then no live scoring. They have enough challenge providing services to their attendees with little or no compensation. Catering to those of us online who didn't attend to volunteer or play would be the lowest of a TDs priorities.

yup. Provisionals is all that is needed. Yeah it's a pain, but in such a case, there's probably a lot to debate, and no car would have moved. Which is a ridiculous call in my book.

the PDGA made the event an NT. They should provide the technology and there should be an agreement that staff should be provided to do the live scoring.

I do not think you'd have a void of locals willing to upload scores to a "scoring home base" for a qualified person to upload them.

Imagine a Marshall type job that is to sit at home during the NT events who's responsibility is to upload scores. Not a lot of expense, a lot of value.

I know, Chuck, who pays? Who pays for Marshals? Cut out the Marshals and there's enough money to do live scoring for all A Tiers and above.

There are several things that should be standardized at NTs but you can't get TDs to agree on them. The PDGA has NTs at the good graces of the TDs and clubs who host them just like most other events that get sanctioned. The herding cats analogy is still appropriate here. The PDGA only has a little more control over Worlds formats but if you knew what went on behind the scenes, the TDs still hold the power.

With regard to marshals, I know the discussions have been underway. However, if you're looking at relative benefits, marshals directly benefit the events they attend and the players there. Behavior incidents have dropped significantly over the years since marshals have been involved and basic scoring has been much better. Live scoring has been a bonus when possible but doesn't serve the players at the event one bit. If you can't even compensate those providing basic functions for an event, expecting live scoring free or in place of direct event services doesn't seem appropriate.

Look, I enjoy live scoring because I'm online more than playing doing disc golf related projects on many weekends. I've even done the phone connection scoring with Pozzy calling me and posting commentary on this Board when Timmy Gill won the Memorial in the playoff over Barry. But those are ad hoc unplanned situations. There's no reason people online here couldn't try to find out ahead of time whether live scoring will be done and volunteer to set it up with someone they know is going to the event and can phone the scores.

at big pro events, it's beneficial to the players FANS that there is live scoring. The whole point of the NT was to create a national tour that would grow media exposure for disc golf. Not providing the basics of live scoring (not too hard to do in this world of instant communications) seems to counteract the entire point of the NT.

Not getting sponsorship has been the downfall of the NT as originally conceived. But with no spectators, no incentive for big sponsors. Thus, we come full circle to charging for live scoring as one way to demonstrate interest in watching the results of events and build toward bigger sponsors.

more interest will be garnered when people can log on any weekend to see live scoring of an event somewhere in the country/world each week. Put that info on the PDGA homepage and you'll attract the eyes of those who aren't 100% sold on disc golf as an exciting sport.

giving stuff away for free will attract the eyes of those outside the sport. Charging will only exclude all outsiders and also a lot of those inside our sport.

Scores up.

you just have to spin it a certain way, drop marshals, make live scoring at NTs a benefit of PDGA membership. now you can go to companies and say you have 11,000 people paying annually to follow events that they are potentially sponsoring

: ) :

man, my scores from last year were 51 52 64
Schweb's scores are 51 52 63.
Difference is, this year that's only 2 off the best, last year it would be 6 off.

from Chuck earlier...
As it is, the pros are getting more than they pay for



you dont think this is a ridiculous statement? I'm registered as an Am but i'm a member of the PRO Disc Golf Association. If a few more bucks or a small percentage more goes towards the Pro side then so be it!

And i've heard remarks from top Pros that they'd actually like to see less majors and better ones... if a tourney thinks its got its stuff together enough to be an NT then add this as stipulation for them. If they can't then they are an A tier.

Maybe there could be a communications/web sub-committee of people who either work on weekends or wouldn't mind taking turns being 'on-call' to update an NT live scoring website from time to time. I know I would sign up.

They are also playing in 20-25 MPH wind this year.

Wow, that Blue Valley course really looks like something. Last year it played to an SSA of 65.5 and this year it was 68.9. That makes it one of the top 10 highest SSA courses (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=659610&amp;an=0&amp;page=1#Post6 59610).

Wow, that Blue Valley course really looks like something. Last year it played to an SSA of 65.5 and this year it was 68.9. That makes it one of the top 10 highest SSA courses (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=659610&amp;an=0&amp;page=1#Post6 59610).




Yeah but it that hard because it is LONG! The big course in Amarillo had an SSA of 72 and not just because every hole was 800ft. :D

yeah, Blue Valley... leave your Mid-Range at home...

But with no spectators, no incentive for big sponsors.



a significant number of online spectators is much more likely than a significant number of on site spectators.

B I N G O!

I know I'll be writing in MATT PECKHAM on my ballot.

Go DJ!

If "DJ" can hold on ,Back to Back "NT" wins....
Spin iTT

Chappy has been playing Adv Masters. Hopefully he'll be done in time and is planning to do the live scoring this afternoon for the top group.


Charging will only exclude all outsiders and also a lot of those inside our sport.



If you can't develop at least hard core spectatorship willing to pay, that's one less spectator building block from which to generate future sponsorship. Separate from that, why should people be expected to provide the service free? There have been too many services in this sport that many players have gotten used to being provided free or expect to be provided free.


Maybe there could be a communications/web sub-committee of people who either work on weekends or wouldn't mind taking turns being 'on-call' to update an NT live scoring website from time to time. I know I would sign up.


Stack, nothing stopping you from offering to organize a scoring squad.

Need a Pro Disc Golf Players Union.

Not getting sponsorship has been the downfall of the NT as originally conceived. But with no spectators, no incentive for big sponsors. Thus, we come full circle to charging for live scoring as one way to demonstrate interest in watching the results of events and build toward bigger sponsors.



Our sport is growing nicely and becoming more visible to the general public. Most of the people I meet have at least heard of Disc Golf now.

I was involved with the GTO NT event in Tulsa, so I understand the finances involved in running an NT

My vote would be to accumulate enough funds to bring this sport to television. I know it has been discussed to death, but the fact still remains. We have to have a solid media person take an interest.

I watched the National Spelling Bee on ESPN and I thought, you have to be kidding me.

If whoever is in charge can get a spelling bee televised, surely we can get someone to listen to us...

With TV, comes spectators, sponsors and everything we want and need...

Until televised events becomes our primary focus, we will continue to tread the same water...

I watched the National Spelling Bee on ESPN and I thought, you have to be kidding me. If whoever is in charge can get a spelling bee televised, surely we can get someone to listen to us...



We get as many juniors playing as there are students spelling and they'll get on TV, at least for the finals. Have to support the E.D.G.E. first.

Way cheaper to televise the spelling bee than a disc golf event, but back to more important things. Go E-Mac and Downtown Randy Brown!

Go................ Downtown Randy Brown!




Came up a stroke short and tied for second. What a bummer!

Live scoring for the top eight is underway.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/live.php?TournID=7287

I'm guessing not all of those holes are par 3s so maybe they'll update those as they go along.

They are playing WW so they probably are par 3's

Aahhh. I thought it was the Swope Gold layout like they've done before.

Nice to see the live scoring in red's and blue's now instead of all black numbers. First time I've noticed this.

All black on mine. Do you have a Mac?

they're different colors on mine as well (no mac but i'm using firefox)

thanks Chap!

Nice shootin', Babbit! :cool:

Babbit is playin some great golf right now.

I wonder what the guys on the 3rd card did?

I hot round could sneak way up there.

No doubt!

I wish I would have stayed to see Babbit's 2 on hole 14.

It was a great weekend until I got stuck in the hail on the way home!

I was watching live scoring and I thought Babbit tied Rico, now it said Rico won by a few strokes whats up?
was there 4 or 5 rounds?

what about the payout?

Steve Brinster could have tied it up with a deuce on the 18th. Too bad he bogeyed. That's a hard hole if it's Waterworks. Tricky uphill drive.

Brinster had a 35 ft uphill look at it and sailed over the basket. his 15 comebacker spit out on him. Rico had already made his par so it did not maTTer.

Steve had putts to tie it up on both 16 and 17 as well. The finals proved to be very exciting.

So, were there any USDGC spots given away, or are these the 5 qualifiers?

Arturo Villareal
David Hemmeline
Kyle Crabtree
Jeff Bryk
Ross Brandt

So, were there any USDGC spots given away, or are these the 5 qualifiers?

Arturo Villareal
David Hemmeline
Kyle Crabtree
Jeff Bryk
Ross Brandt



Those are the qualifiers.

Babbit's drive on 14 was a thing of beauty.....absolutely parked.

Brinster's birdie putt spit on him on 17 as well. Great comeback effort by Steve.

Chap

So, were there any USDGC spots given away, or are these the 5 qualifiers?

Arturo Villareal
David Hemmeline
Kyle Crabtree
Jeff Bryk
Ross Brandt



Those are the qualifiers.

Babbit's drive on 14 was a thing of beauty.....absolutely parked.

Brinster's birdie putt spit on him on 17 as well. Great comeback effort by Steve.

Chap



Brinster's putt on 16 spit; his putt on 17 hit the front of the cage.

Congratulations to the KC locals (Arturo amd the Hemmie) for qualifying for the USDGC!

It takes more staff and man power to walk with each group individually, and when you have 4-5 courses going at once, your staff is spread thin. I will not do live scoring if I am going to be the only one out there typically, what happens if I get called away as a Marshal to make a call, then i need to wait make the ruling, and then get back, it meses up the flow. Now on SUnday Chapman was out there with the 2nd card, and then it is easier to do, knowing that you have other support.

It takes time effort, and more energy, which is typically what you have on SUnday, when everyone is there, thus the reasoning for Live scoring on the final round.

Not having Marshals at NT's is a JOKE, we have a hard time policing ourselves already, now you want to take the only group of people that know the rules and keep things consistent?

If that becomes the standard, then do not expect me to continue with a sport that will not even recognize that officiating is always part of the game, and needs to be there to ensure the integrity of the game is in place.

IT was a lot of fun, and thanks to Smitty for catching my error in scoring online to change it!!

We need the marshals... someone needs to baby-sit some of the "top" players in our sport.

I know of a couple of ex-roomates who got very verbal with each other last year at the KCWO.

"Not having Marshals at NT's is a JOKE, we have a hard time policing ourselves already, now you want to take the only group of people that know the rules and keep things consistent?"

LOL....The only group of people that know the rules? Didnt they move a car? Didn't they allow a TD to hold an event for a player? Didn't they add a bun"cer" to worlds? Just to name a few.All touring players are currently being urged(in fact mandated within their ranks) to be certified and carry rules books. To throw an event large enough to need Marshals should only be allowed to clubs with enough support to handle 'big' events.

Didnt they move a car? Allowed.
Didn't they allow a TD to hold an event for a player? No marshal
Didn't they add a bun"cer" to worlds? Allowed in fact recommended

Not the right call!
TD was not reprimanded, and correct me if i'm rong, a marshall.
Recommended for a trial at our World Championships? Great idea.

The rule is clear that "the player" cannot move the vehicle but it does not say the TD or marshal cannot. Show us where?
Don't know about that TD being a marshal or not.
Buncr is a fancy name for the thousands of casual relief areas that have been in tournaments forever. Played exactly the same as casual relief, eh? Get used to it since you'll be seeing more of them (Players Cup already) including possibly the USDGC where the OB rules were first bent with the island rule.

On the hole on the GOLD course at worlds it made about as much sense as the basket inside the tree. The only reason that doesnt get as much attention, is the fact that the MPO didnt play it. Circus golf on our main stage.

Circus golf on our main stage.


The new design concept circus at big events started with Harold and Stan at least 10 years ago with triple mandos, "attractive" yellow rope OB, pine needle island greens and baskets perched on cliffs. Elevated triple tree may have been new to you but had been in 10 PDGA events including two championships before Worlds. It was just new to those not keeping up with new design challenges.

BUNCR doesnt make sense. You know what I got at worlds? Nice drive Sjur! Not really. I went from CTP 12 ft, to 3rd out 42'. Calling it casual relief is contradictory. I did NOT choose to take that relief, I was told I HAD to. If it was 6 inch water, i would not have taken relief. Raised baskets and island greens along roped fairways is fine. Its a fairway creator, and green 'risk reward' shaper. If the basket was not crooked in the tree it would have been fine(and similiar to the ones I have played).
New course design challenges? LOL, a creative way to say, how can I be different and put a personal sig. on it?

A buncr is no different than a ball golfer landing on the green on the sloped side of the pin and rolling farther away. Same idea. Shoot to the safer side of the pin. And there are all kinds of casual relief areas (bluebells, special conditions) that players are required to take relief. Much better than a foolish OB near a pin.

Basket was straight in the tree at start of round just like the chains are in a basket. If the chains get tangled or the basket gets tilted, players can adjust without penalty. I'll bet you have adjusted a portable basket over the years that was perched on a hillside with blocks for leveling and got bumped.

Buncrs in the long run are a way to make hazards more like ball golf that are less punitive than an immediate 1-shot penalty or even worse, plus distance. I guarantee you'll be seeing more of them.

The worst thing about buncr is a worse shot is rewarded.

I just want to point out that one of things I don't like about USDGC is how it has changed our sport and in my opinion, for the worse.

Everywhere we go now you see Island Greens and Yellow Rope and all that crazy stuff.

To me, all these things seem to take away skill and add more luck in our game, which we don't need.

Most players in favor of these crazy changes are simply b/c they are not competitive under the current rules and standards. It never ceases to amaze me when I see some stupid post about a rule change on here and I look at their info and they are rated 840. Now I'm not saying that these players have bad ideas or that they shouldn't be allowed to give their opinion. However, you don't see the few 1000 rated guys on here wanting change (with the exception of Craig Gangloff and his ideas on divisions, which I 100% agree with).

We already have enough divisions so people with not as much skill can be rewarded like a 3rd grader getting a participation certificate. We don't need things like buncrs that make no sense taking MORE skill out of the game.

Our number 1 and number 2 problems in disc golf are numbers and image. We don't need to waste time running the few people we have off with stupid things like this. Instead of using energy to come up with ways for anyone to beat Ken Climo, use that energy to run a big tournament.

I agree with Sjur that some of the things at 07 worlds were silly. The pars, the buncrs and the one thing I've never heard anyone mention...

Gold hole 7 the RIDICULOUS ob in this random area. First round I threw a pretty good shot - threw the right line, right speed, right turn, just threw it a little low - ended up OB. Had it not been for the OB, I would have had a 40 foot putt. Instead, I had a 80 foot layup for a tap in 4.

Second round I threw a terrible shot. My shot was way to high and didn't have any pop, I stalled and hyzered out about 100 feet from the pin and no where near the OB. Threw an easy approach, got a 3.

Now why in the world should my first shot be OB and my second shot not be? I don't mind throwing a shot and being penalized here and there (note, not like USDGC where it is every hole) as long as a worse shot receives the same penalty.

Things like that take skill out of the game.

Gold hole 7 the RIDICULOUS ob in this random area. First round I threw a pretty good shot - threw the right line, right speed, right turn, just threw it a little low - ended up OB.


That's one of the best OBs out there. You can see it, it's right in line with the pin. It's decent sized. The hole is only 300 or so with a 260 shot to clear it if you go straight at the pin. But there's huge room on both sides to never throw over it. Where's the "luck factor"?

Not luck in this example, skill. As explained below.




Gold hole 7 the RIDICULOUS ob in this random area. First round I threw a pretty good shot - threw the right line, right speed, right turn, just threw it a little low - ended up OB. Had it not been for the OB, I would have had a 40 foot putt. Instead, I had a 80 foot layup for a tap in 4.

Second round I threw a terrible shot. My shot was way to high and didn't have any pop, I stalled and hyzered out about 100 feet from the pin and no where near the OB. Threw an easy approach, got a 3.

Now why in the world should my first shot be OB and my second shot not be? I don't mind throwing a shot and being penalized here and there (note, not like USDGC where it is every hole) as long as a worse shot receives the same penalty.

Things like that take skill out of the game.

You're comparing a 4 to a 3 on a wide open hole that you should 2 if you play it even reasonably well. If you go over the OB and park it, you get the 2. You didn't clear it and got the 4, risk/reward. We agree that you deserved a 3 for a sloppy throw but the upshot isn't guaranteed to stick on that hillside so 4 isn't out of the question.

Hole seven. If iremember correctly which hole it was, this O.B. was a ditch right. I saw some kicks go in it, and others park the basket. But again, I don't mind OB's. I mind mandatory casual relief!!!
I also despise completely random seeded pools!
Wow, my oxy moron meter is thrown off by the military intelligence of this quiet conversation.

Hole seven. If iremember correctly which hole it was, this O.B. was a ditch right.


The OB was an oval sandtrap on what was going to be a golf course with the basket perched on the back hillside of the golf green about 60 feet past the trap.

300 roc anny slow turn sjur

Since I brought it up.....Are we "gonna seed the pools, or go random?" Or my personal favorite- BOTH!!!

The way it's set up now, there's only one Open pool the first day with tee times at Timber Ridge. I suspect that groups will partly be set up based on requested travel arrangements. Then the top players will be ranked with one per group based on how many total groups will be teeing off then perhaps random from there. Then the pools for Tuesday and groups within them get defined immediately after the first round based on that score like USDGC. If you're not a top player and want the chance to play with one, then I suspect it's better not to indicate you want to travel with anyone else. There's a shuffle again after Wednesday.

Gold hole 7 the RIDICULOUS ob in this random area. First round I threw a pretty good shot - threw the right line, right speed, right turn, just threw it a little low - ended up OB.


That's one of the best OBs out there. You can see it, it's right in line with the pin. It's decent sized. The hole is only 300 or so with a 260 shot to clear it if you go straight at the pin. But there's huge room on both sides to never throw over it. Where's the "luck factor"?



Sorry, Chuck, upside down dixie cups do not an obvious OB area make. Looked like you ran out of time and stuck the only thing in your golf cart you weren't using in the ground. They were visible when you walked up there, but I would hardly call it visible from the tee.

With the Buncr on 2 or 3, and this one on 7, I felt you designed a mediocre hole, but decided it needed to play tougher later.

Better pin positions would have made both of these holes play better all around, not the artificial, pretty random OB.

Same goes for the random OB on Blueberry 6? in the dried up marsh pit. While it might be OB during the rainy season, It's punishment enough to land in there. It's a true BUNKER.

Maybe we need to start a thread on what "the people" want to see in an NT. Instead of cluttering up the KCWO thread. Motion to move this discussion.....

There were flags or stakes in both hazards for vertical sight identification along with the cups for specific calls plus the map showing them in the caddy books. Hole 7 was specifically designed from the beginning with the hazard as a key feature. Unfortunately, John didn't get time to put the white sand in there to make it stick out even better. Likewise, the buncr was intended on hole 2 from the beginning and the alternate pin is the same distance on the other side of that buncr so it could be used either way.

I think you mean Blueberry 5 with a 30' diameter pond right off the tee that only should mess with beginners. It was flagged and cupped and included in the caddy books. Considering that was a drought year, the water wasn't there to make it look nicer along with all of those ugly looking dry ponds on 18, moat on 16, creek bed on 17 and on and on. Too bad we don't have ball golf budgets even though some of us try to have hazards that look and work as well as theirs.

Man, this is the first time in history that people are not [censored] about the KCWO payout. Way to go Pete and Dan. :cool:

We need the marshals... someone needs to baby-sit some of the "top" players in our sport.
javascript:void(0)
/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I know of a couple of ex-roomates who got very verbal with each other last year at the KCWO.




:D

At least it was entertaining. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

There were flags or stakes in both hazards for vertical sight identification along with the cups for specific calls plus the map showing them in the caddy books. Hole 7 was specifically designed from the beginning with the hazard as a key feature. Unfortunately, John didn't get time to put the white sand in there to make it stick out even better. Likewise, the buncr was intended on hole 2 from the beginning and the alternate pin is the same distance on the other side of that buncr so it could be used either way.

I think you mean Blueberry 5 with a 30' diameter pond right off the tee that only should mess with beginners. It was flagged and cupped and included in the caddy books. Considering that was a drought year, the water wasn't there to make it look nicer along with all of those ugly looking dry ponds on 18, moat on 16, creek bed on 17 and on and on. Too bad we don't have ball golf budgets even though some of us try to have hazards that look and work as well as theirs.



What about on hole 10? Those could have also been left as IB and would have been nice bunkers.

As normal bunkers... not BUNCRS.