Ok lets hear about it, the weekend is over and I m sure people have gotten thier hands on them and started throwing them.

BOMBS!!!

flat white ones flew exactly like a star destroyer....just booms....

flat white ones flew exactly like a star destroyer....just booms....



Please don't say that. The destroyer blows.

i found the ones i threw to be as stable as the champ destroyer. glides like crazy and goes forever. more stable than the star.

Is it more like the pro or the champ? and has anyone thrown the orange ones yet.

Just got a big box of oranges, whites, and yellows. Looking forward to testing them. I didn't test the Team ones that Discraft sent b/c they were blank with a ghost stamp on the bottom. Too cool not to hold on to. Feedback from me coming soon.......

Mine will be in my hands tomorrow. I will give a full report.

Just got my hands on one from the Memorial...Thanks Giles again.... So I will be testing tonight I hope. It is 172g orange with discraft on the top and gost stamp on bottom. I cant wait to get out of work to try this disc out :D

flat white ones flew exactly like a star destroyer....just booms....



the ones you havent thrown yet?

the ones i thre at the plastics plus pro players course at lunch....

I watched Discraft-sponsored-Am Jeremy Koling throwing one of the orange ones this weekend at Dogwood Crosstown and he had great success with it -- Saw at least one shot fly dead-level 4-feet off the ground, with a straight-line helix (disc changes angle, but not direction, staying in a straight line), almost 500 feet. He was pin-high, but off to the right on hole 16 at Zebulon. The hole is slightly uphill. To get the total distance, he hit the hill with velocity and got a triple-skip slightly left for an extra 60+ feet on the drive. Was beautiful to watch.

I know Innova molds better than Discraft, but I would say that the flight most reminded me of a faster, glidier Champion Orc or Z-Crush. Similar line, but 10-15% more distance.

Saw Koling make a lot of other nice shots with it during the tourney, but you could tell it was a brand-new disc. Most of the weekend was so windy he was pulling more-familiar discs out of his bag, but did see several beautiful bombs with it on some of the other open holes.

I look forward to trying one, but cant imagine it replacing the Star Destroyer for long forehand-helix shots.

the ones i thre at the plastics plus pro players course at lunch....

.

i dont speak jive

i've only thrown mine twice but it reminded more of a trex then a destroyer

domey vs. flat son......

is the rim as wide as the destroyer?

Saw at least one shot fly dead-level 4-feet off the ground, with a straight-line helix (disc changes angle, but not direction, staying in a straight line), almost 500 feet.



<font color="blue"> [profanity removed] </font>

is the rim as wide as the destroyer?



compared to my cfr destroyer the rims look nearly identical

I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Jeremy is a beast and Ive seen him bomb backhand and sidearm...I wouldn't doubt that he could bust one out there nearly 500.

I think he is talking about it being 4ft off the ground and goin 500ft. Not just going 500.

[QUOTE]
I watched Discraft-sponsored-Am Jeremy Koling throwing one of the orange ones this weekend at Dogwood Crosstown and he had great success with it -- Saw at least one shot fly dead-level 4-feet off the ground, with a straight-line helix (disc changes angle, but not direction, staying in a straight line), almost 500 feet. He was pin-high, but off to the right on hole 16 at Zebulon. The hole is slightly uphill. To get the total distance, he hit the hill with velocity and got a triple-skip slightly left for an extra 60+ feet on the drive. Was beautiful to watch.

I know Innova molds better than Discraft, but I would say that the flight most reminded me of a faster, glidier Champion Orc or Z-Crush. Similar line, but 10-15% more distance.

I was on the card with him, it was beautiful to watch...I thought it flew like a nicely beat in Spirit....flip hyzer to an ice rope with only a little drift to the right not a turn...about 20 feet off the ground then the slope got in the way about 450, he was controlling it like it was a teebird, anyone with a big arm might want to give this one a go.

We got our first shipment in today and I made the mold comparison to the Destroyer right away. Seems to have near identical width, but definitely is more concave and has more "curve" than the Destroyer's rim. I'm guessing that is the primary reason for it's apparent higher overstability according to published reports. Just an FYI, we still have the ESP Force (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&amp;ProdID=1787) up at our special rate of $12.99 until the end of the week.

I just got a couple of throws yesterday with a orange 172g Force I thought it was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET :DThe glide and stability are sick with this disc! Hands down better than the destroyer :eek: Eat your hearts out Innova Lovers :o

innova looks like they're coming out with an answer to the force... will be interesting to see how that one flies. I believe they're calling it the XCaliber.

kinda cool to hear this one being referred to as ... innovas answer to the force (instead of discrafts answer to .... insert innova disc here) :)

funny- innova has been working on a more stable destroyer for a while. saying that innova answers anything discraft does is just silly. it is always the other way around.

no one's really mentioning the difference in stability. Is the force going to be flippy for big arms like the destroyer is or more overstable???

Its more overstable for me than the destroyer I threw. I throw 400ish :D

funny- innova has been working on a more stable destroyer for a while. saying that innova answers anything discraft does is just silly. it is always the other way around.



Discraft has influenced Innova's releases big time over the history of the sport. Innova's best distance driver used to be the Viper until Discraft debuted the Cyclone. It was way different than the Viper and went farther for almost everybody. This forced Innova to create the Gazelle. From that point on they have been constantly one-upping each other, especially the distance drivers. Wildcat, Beast, Predator, Monster, Crush, Orc, Flash, Wraith, Surge, Destroyer, Force, XCaliber...and it goes on, each faster and farther than the last. I guarantee things would not be moving this fast if Innova was the only disc designer/producer.

I agree completely, everyone can sit and say how bad innova is or how bad discraft is but without both of these two companies rivaling each other we would still be stuck in the stone age of disc golf.

amen

I agree completely, everyone can sit and say how bad innova is or how bad discraft is but without both of these two companies rivaling each other we would still be stuck in the stone age of disc golf.


does that mean we'd all be throwing rocs?

I know Innova molds better than Discraft



what makes you say this, or better yet believe it?!? FACTS?... i throw both mind you, I'm still gonna call

<font color="blue"> [profanity removed] </font>

I know Innova molds better than Discraft



what makes you say this, or better yet believe it?!? FACTS?... i throw both mind you, I'm still gonna call

<font color="blue"> [profanity removed] </font>




I think he means he is just more familiar with them.

now that I reread it Scoot_er, I believe you are correct in that. Maybe I need a button for today saying my brain is full of ****

That's funny ^^^^

Alright, here goes...

I got my Forces in the mail yesterday. I got yellow and white 174s. I took a representative from each color out to test. The yellow ones have a HUGE dome. Think domey pro destroyer, but even domier. The plastic feels like an 80/20 blend of stiff ESP/FLX ESP. Rigid rim, gummy dome. Super grippy and feels better in the hand than a Destroyer imo. The white one was little stiffer and had half the dome of the yellow, though still a good, poppy dome.

The yellow one started right off a little flippy. The flight was very Surgish in its line, but way faster. The first time I threw it I released it with a touch of anny, like I would throw a Destroyer for max D. It wasn't my hardest rip, but the disc stayed over a looong time and ended up coming back and landing about 450', 20' right of where I was aiming. Not bad for a 1st throw...What I really liked about this disc was the glide. As I threw it again and again I noticed that the action was slower, more predictable, and controlled than the action of a Destroyer. The Destroyer is probably a hair faster, but is more hit or miss. When I did not get the perfect line out of the Force, it still glided forward and yielded good distance. When I get the Destroyer off line it cuts out earlier(turn and burn or stall out). The yellow Force was generally the same exact stability as most Destroyers I've thrown. This disc is going in my bag as my King distance driver as it is more consistant and forgiving for me than the Destroyer and feels better in the hand. It is not for windy days though as it flips very fast when the nose gets pushed down.

So I was happy with the yellow as a bomber, but I was kind of disappointed after expecting it to be hard to turn over. The white one fixed this 100 percent. I didn't get to throw the white one nearly as much, but it was indeed more stable than any Destroyer I've thrown. It was sweet, like a faster 1st run Teerex. This disc would not turn over unless I put anny on it. We'll see how it does down the road in wind and after some hits, but it seems like the real deal.

Overall the Force was quite a bit of fun to throw and I can't wait to take the two out on the course as they both have earned at least a temporary chance in my bag.

Nice review Mike. I'm looking forward to FINALLY testing mine tonight. Thank goodness for time changes and wed night minis.

Both of the Forces I've thrown, a yellow and an orange, were much more overstable than any Surge. Neither was flippy in a headwind. Maybe this mold produces a wider variation in flight characteristics from disc to disc. I don't know. Maybe I should throw all 80 of them. :D

Both of the Destroyers I've thrown, a yellow and an orange, were much more overstable than any Surge. Neither was flippy in a headwind. Maybe this mold produces a wider variation in flight characteristics from disc to disc. I don't know. Maybe I should throw all 80 of them. :D



First of all I always sought out the most stable Surges, so my idea of a Surge is a disc that flies flat when thrown flat. I could snap a Surge really hard and as long as I didn't yank it late or throw it too low it would fly straight or slightly turned, coming back very predictably.
So I guess its not that the Destroyer is more understable, but that it turns faster when you get it turned, and it doesn't "balance" on the line between turned over and fading out as well as a Surge or a Force. That being said, I have Surges that held a line into the wind out in the field that none of my Destroyers could fly flat into.

I think that anyone who can consistantly throw golf lines over 400' would agree that the Destroyer is touchy in a headwind. I also have difficulty throwing a consistant, predictable hyzer line with the Destroyer. I just don't know how much it will flip up and whether it will hold flat or turn out a little. It seems like its flight line is affected drastically if the tiniest part of your release is inconsistant. The Force, as I stated earlier, seems much more forgiving.

I have a lot of trouble throwing Star Destroyers into a headwind. I throw 400' golf shots and its picky to say the least, a tiny bit of off axis torque will kill a shot with a Destroyer. I have some Forces coming at the end of the week so hopefully they are as good as people are saying they are.

I need a super fast driver that is stable enough to hold a hyzer line when needed. It will definitely push me that much closer to having the all Discraft bag that I have been working towards :)

The Orange Forced I threw yesterday was more overstable than any Destroyer I have thrown. Seemed to have more HSS than the Pulse I was trying as well.

The Orange Forced I threw yesterday was more overstable than any Destroyer I have thrown. Seemed to have more HSS than the Pulse I was trying as well.



You tried the re-tooled Pulse yet? It is a beast and very overstable.

Hopefully our outdoors store gets these in soon. They sound sweet, and by the reviews better than the Destroyer which I just dont see the hype in. But Discraft isnt the biggest seller so it may be a while.

The wider the rim, the more variation in flight characteristics you are going to notice from disc to disc. You might have to try a couple to find one that works for you - even in the same color, weight and plastic!

so i threw them today, after reading a couple reviews on this site i decided to throw all three colors i got (orange, white and yellow) and both weights 174 and 167.

from what i found today it seems that the white one i have, has a much flatter top than the yellow and orange that are very domey. the white one more resembles the prototypes that a discraft prof let me throw and are more in line with the look of the destroyer. in my opinion this white one flew like a more stable version of my champion destroyer and is more stable than any star that ive had my hands on.

the yellow and orange, despite the fact that the orange is only 167, seem to be crazy stable to me. granted that ive only thrown them for one round and mostly forehand, and im a weenie with &gt;400 distance.., i think that all of them are much more stable than destroyers, with the heavy domey yellow one being the most. i couldnt flip any of them without manually rolling the wrist or angling the release, where i can with the destroyers.

its got great glide and is fast, i think anyone who wants more power with more dependability/predictability, or anyone looking for a distance wind or sidearm disc, this may be it.

let me know what you guys think when you get yours.

i read that the whites were more and the domeys less, so perhaps im wrong, but this is what i experienced today.

It sure seems like people are all over the place with regards to the stability of these new super-fast discs. It seems as discs get faster, the more different they fly at different speeds. So I guess if you don't throw really hard, these discs might not live up to the hype.

Anyway, I got to take my air Force (yellow &amp; white 174g) to the course yesterday. I used them in my doubles round, and I gave a couple to my friend who throw a bit harder than I do, and he played in my group as well. On our first hole, which is well over 500' with a lake on the right, was a perfect candidate. I threw my flippy yellow Force and even though it hit a tree branch 2/3 of the way down the fairway which knocked it nose down and cut it off early, it still went 425'. My friend literally threw the Force for the first time off the tee, so he really only threw it at about 70%. It went straight out and did a long, gentle hyzer and landed 10' to the left of my drive at about 425' as well.

On the next long hole there was a headwind and we both watched our flippy Forces get turned over like nobody's business. We should have thrown the stable ones, but going left early on that hole means a lost disc in the lake, so we played it safe. Lesson: don't throw a really domey Force into a headwind!

The last long hole was the most fun. It is 666' long, with a lake on the right after you travel about 430' down the fairway. You have a choice on this hole to throw low and straight under the trees (about 420' is all you can get taking this route), or to do a high anyhyzer over/around the big tree in front of the teepad. We both chose to go big. My drive clipped a branch on the tree right out of my hand, which made it stall early...it still went over 400'! My friend released his just a bit late, and it turned over more or less through the tree cleanly somehow. It held turned over and flew as fast as any disc I've seen right out into the middle of the lake. NOBODY ever throws into that lake off the teepad. You don't even consider it as a possibility...That shanked shot went at least 480'. Needless to say, my buddy who only throws Discraft (except for a Destroyer he WAS throwing), was very impressed. In fact, I think he had an accident of the third kind in his pants. :D

Well I have to admit, I can't say I don't get easily excited about new plastic, but I can't help but hype this disc up. The Destroyer got me really excited because I had some freak throws 40-50' longer than I'd ever thrown before. Unfortunetely, the more time I spent throwing it, the more I was disappointed by the shank/great shot ratio. The Force is not just a fast disc, it has awesome glide and a really true flight path. I can't believe that I'm not going to get to throw it tonight...its making me anxious! :D

I like discs that make me anxious to throw. It helps me remember why I love to play.

I thought I had two on reserve, but it looks like they were sold! :(
I'm on my way to the OFFICIAL 2008 WORLDS MERCHANDISE SPONSOR (http://www.gottagogottathrow.com) for some.

How are the weights vs. scale?

I thought I had two on reserve, but it looks like they were sold! :(
I'm on my way to the OFFICIAL 2008 WORLDS MERCHANDISE SPONSOR (http://www.gottagogottathrow.com) for some.

How are the weights vs. scale?



Mine weigh true. You're gonna love this disc Mark. Try to get a white one or an orange one. Yellow is going to flip on you.

I got 2 forces in today. a White kinda see through 174 and a 167 yellow. Very fast, as stated earlier. I was getting these about 400-410. HS I was getting a bit of a flip out of the 167 and the 174 would hold up at flat from a hyzer flip with a slight 5mph R-L wind. LS these fade pretty strong. May be a bit much for me for just all out distance. I was getting some nice big sweeping hyzers out of both. into the headwind I got some nice turnovers with a flat release and both came back at the end, but the 167 was just very faint.

As compared to the Destroyer, I would say the 167 has about the same HSS and a new 175 destroyer and the 175g acted like a slighly beefier 175 champ destroyer. I think I'm going to put these in the bag instead of the destroyers. I think I like them

I know that the LSS is there, but did you notice how much forward distance the Force was getting on that skip/fade compared to a Destroyer? I can throw my Force at about 70% and flat/very slight hyzer and it will fade for about 40% of its flight and still end up going 400'. That's just fun.

I did notice that, when I wasn't getting the nose up. I was having some of those issues as I've only thrown about 4 times in the last 2 or 3 monthes.

It's almost white disc weather, mike...you know how we does it!
I'll take your advise and get one of each!

FORCES landed today, thanks to SKDS. Started throwing immediatley upon arrival home from work. 170 Orange and 175 White, both with some dome, more than a Star Destroyer, less than a Pro. Side by side with their Innova counterparts, I concluded that these are two very different discs for me. I don't have a colossal arm by any means, my longest ever was 475 in a D comp. I still love to crush and had high hopes for the new Discraft offering. Results of day one are a very mixed bag. I like to be able to flip a driver just a bit most of the time, in neutral wind conditions, and I don't see me being able to do that with either of these. The 170 is somewhat of a pig, flies kinda like a longer Flick, akin to my limited experiments with a heavy Z Avenger. The 175 is pretty sweet though, and thrown anny goes for a long way. It seems to have excellent glide to fade when chucked like this. I think it may find it's way into the bag. Reminds me of a really new Destroyer. The 170 needs to be run over. So, with limited throws so far, I say, not bad, and the plastic is really nice, seems super resilient. Looking foward to some more "testing". KP

Did anyone else get any slightly transparent white forces? Mine was 175 and is slightly see through

i wish! mine is white w purple stamp

yellow w silver and orange with gold are the others i got.

Can't wait to get mine! They won't be here til Tuesday because I ordered four and they have to be shipped UPS.

I received two First Run Force discs in the mail last night - one Bright Yellow 169g Force and one White 173g Force, and I threw them today.

To provide some background information, I've been playing disc golf since 1995, am about 950 rated, and throw about 350-375 feet max on flat ground. I have thrown Discraft since my very first days in the sport, using a APX putter for many years; the Hawk, MRV and MRX for approaches back in the old days and Breeze, Glide, Wasp, and Buzz in recent years. Off the tee, I used to love to throw a Stratus, Cyclone, XPress and Talon in prior years, and the XL and XS were my farthest throwing discs for a long time - I loved them. In recent years I've thrown the Wildcat, Crush, Avenger, and Surge and have always been pleased with the results. At one point in the early 2000s I was signed up on a program with Scott Stokely where I would receive brand new Discraft discs as soon as they came out. I am definitely a Discraft fan.

However, from a consistency and variability standpoint, I was very disappointed with today's experience. On the one hand, on a wide open flat hole with no wind the White 173g Force delivered a perfect reverse-S flight path which yielded maximum distance and was beautiful - I was delighted. However, the Bright Yellow 169g Force was an overstable pig that went nowhere and was practically useless. I repeated the throws on several different holes and obtained exactly the same results. I gave the discs to a buddy whom I was playing with who throws with a little more power and for more distance than I do and he obtained similar results. Even with a slight hyzer delivery, the White 173g Force hyzer-flipped up hard and then turned over severely; the Bright Yellow 169g Force flew very overstable for him.

I'm disappointed because of the extreme variability in these discs. How could two discs from the same mold fly so differently? They are both from the first run of discs - why is there so much variance? How is the lighter disc more overstable than the disc which is 4 grams heavier?

Did I just get a "clunker" disc? If so, which one is it? Which is the disc that is unlike the rest of First Run Force discs that have been produced? :confused:

My sentiments/observations exactly, the 175 may have some use, but the 170 is piggish. Very odd, and I am starting to wonder if perhaps I have outdisced myself. It would be easier to tell if any of the theories about weight pertained, and yet it seems the exact opposite. KP

I received two First Run Force discs in the mail last night - one Bright Yellow 169g Force and one White 173g Force, and I threw them today.

To provide some background information, I've been playing disc golf since 1995, am about 950 rated, and throw about 350-375 feet max on flat ground. I have thrown Discraft since my very first days in the sport, using a APX putter for many years; the Hawk, MRV and MRX for approaches back in the old days and Breeze, Glide, Wasp, and Buzz in recent years. Off the tee, I used to love to throw a Stratus, Cyclone, XPress and Talon in prior years, and the XL and XS were my farthest throwing discs for a long time - I loved them. In recent years I've thrown the Wildcat, Crush, Avenger, and Surge and have always been pleased with the results. At one point in the early 2000s I was signed up on a program with Scott Stokely where I would receive brand new Discraft discs as soon as they came out. I am definitely a Discraft fan.

However, from a consistency and variability standpoint, I was very disappointed with today's experience. On the one hand, on a wide open flat hole with no wind the White 173g Force delivered a perfect reverse-S flight path which yielded maximum distance and was beautiful - I was delighted. However, the Bright Yellow 169g Force was an overstable pig that went nowhere and was practically useless. I repeated the throws on several different holes and obtained exactly the same results. I gave the discs to a buddy whom I was playing with who throws with a little more power and for more distance than I do and he obtained similar results. Even with a slight hyzer delivery, the White 173g Force hyzer-flipped up hard and then turned over severely; the Bright Yellow 169g Force flew very overstable for him.

I'm disappointed because of the extreme variability in these discs. How could two discs from the same mold fly so differently? They are both from the first run of discs - why is there so much variance? How is the lighter disc more overstable than the disc which is 4 grams heavier?

Did I just get a "clunker" disc? If so, which one is it? Which is the disc that is unlike the rest of First Run Force discs that have been produced? :confused:



Faster discs and wider rims = more individual variability b/w discs. As rims get wider, the concept of "stability" is going to become even more foggy than it currently is. Everyone is going to be able to use these discs, its just going to be a question of finding the one that is the right stability for you. This could be a pain in the butt. We'll have to have wide-rimmed swap meets where we throw each others discs to find the runs, colors, and individual discs that are perfect for each of us...

Are you reading this Stubbs? People are complaining about the overstability of these things... :D

I have only spent time with a 174g Yellow one. It was phenomenal! Super fast, super glide, super far. I was really impressed at how easy and responsive it was when thrown forehand.

Just became very busy. More later.......

It seems that I have been reading lighter weights (167-170) are behaving MORE overstable? Did they come out with different domes? Is this what you're finding?

Are you reading this Stubbs? People are complaining about the overstability of these things... :D



Are you reading this Mike?

One disc is a turnover disc that big arms will easily overpower. The other, 4 grams lighter, is an overstable pig.

The variability between two discs that came from the same mold is ridiculous, and unacceptable.

Are you reading this Stubbs? People are complaining about the overstability of these things... :D



reading and waiting.....

I threw a 167 Yellow one today and it bombs. Great Glide, minimal turn and very fast. What was suprising to me was the speed of the disc toward the end of the flight, it looked as if it were flying just as fast or even faster than in the first part of the flight. Overall a great disc and the yellow one I threw help up very well into a head and cross wind.

I received two First Run Force discs in the mail last night - one Bright Yellow 169g Force and one White 173g Force, and I threw them today.

To provide some background information, I've been playing disc golf since 1995, am about 950 rated, and throw about 350-375 feet max on flat ground. I have thrown Discraft since my very first days in the sport, using a APX putter for many years; the Hawk, MRV and MRX for approaches back in the old days and Breeze, Glide, Wasp, and Buzz in recent years. Off the tee, I used to love to throw a Stratus, Cyclone, XPress and Talon in prior years, and the XL and XS were my farthest throwing discs for a long time - I loved them. In recent years I've thrown the Wildcat, Crush, Avenger, and Surge and have always been pleased with the results. At one point in the early 2000s I was signed up on a program with Scott Stokely where I would receive brand new Discraft discs as soon as they came out. I am definitely a Discraft fan.

However, from a consistency and variability standpoint, I was very disappointed with today's experience. On the one hand, on a wide open flat hole with no wind the White 173g Force delivered a perfect reverse-S flight path which yielded maximum distance and was beautiful - I was delighted. However, the Bright Yellow 169g Force was an overstable pig that went nowhere and was practically useless. I repeated the throws on several different holes and obtained exactly the same results. I gave the discs to a buddy whom I was playing with who throws with a little more power and for more distance than I do and he obtained similar results. Even with a slight hyzer delivery, the White 173g Force hyzer-flipped up hard and then turned over severely; the Bright Yellow 169g Force flew very overstable for him.

I'm disappointed because of the extreme variability in these discs. How could two discs from the same mold fly so differently? They are both from the first run of discs - why is there so much variance? How is the lighter disc more overstable than the disc which is 4 grams heavier?

Did I just get a "clunker" disc? If so, which one is it? Which is the disc that is unlike the rest of First Run Force discs that have been produced? :confused:



Faster discs and wider rims = more individual variability b/w discs. As rims get wider, the concept of "stability" is going to become even more foggy than it currently is. Everyone is going to be able to use these discs, its just going to be a question of finding the one that is the right stability for you. This could be a pain in the butt. We'll have to have wide-rimmed swap meets where we throw each others discs to find the runs, colors, and individual discs that are perfect for each of us...



I threw my orange 173 Force today in 25 mph cross winds right to left and this disc wanted to keep going. I just had to figure out the right angle and it booms every time.

Faster discs and wider rims = more individual variability b/w discs. As rims get wider, the concept of "stability" is going to become even more foggy than it currently is. Everyone is going to be able to use these discs, its just going to be a question of finding the one that is the right stability for you. This could be a pain in the butt. We'll have to have wide-rimmed swap meets where we throw each others discs to find the runs, colors, and individual discs that are perfect for each of us...



The bold text is so very true! These wid rimmed discs of today are going to fly very different from user to user. One thrower's technique and arm speed will yield great distance and glide while another thrower's lack of technique/armspeed will result in a totally different flight.

Still haven't forgotten about you Mike. Had family in town for an extended weekend and was staying far away from my PC and being "plugged in." :D

Faster discs and wider rims = more individual variability b/w discs. As rims get wider, the concept of "stability" is going to become even more foggy than it currently is. Everyone is going to be able to use these discs, its just going to be a question of finding the one that is the right stability for you. This could be a pain in the butt. We'll have to have wide-rimmed swap meets where we throw each others discs to find the runs, colors, and individual discs that are perfect for each of us...



The bold text is so very true! These wid rimmed discs of today are going to fly very different from user to user. One thrower's technique and arm speed will yield great distance and glide while another thrower's lack of technique/armspeed will result in a totally different flight.



This issue with the Force has nothing to do with arm speed or technique.

A 169g bright yellow First Run Force disc was an overstable pig while a 173g white First Run Force disc was a turnover disc. Two different throwers of varying armspeed and technique observed the exact same results.

This variability and lack of consistency from discs coming from the same mold and run is quite unacceptable.

But it does have everything to do with the width of the rim which is inherently going to produce greater variability in flight characteristics from disc to disc, as many have explained. It is totally expected. If you want something consistent throw a Teebird. Just because Discraft promises the most consistent disc runs doesn't mean they can do the impossible and make every Force the same!

Faster discs and wider rims = more individual variability b/w discs. As rims get wider, the concept of "stability" is going to become even more foggy than it currently is. Everyone is going to be able to use these discs, its just going to be a question of finding the one that is the right stability for you. This could be a pain in the butt. We'll have to have wide-rimmed swap meets where we throw each others discs to find the runs, colors, and individual discs that are perfect for each of us...



The bold text is so very true! These wid rimmed discs of today are going to fly very different from user to user. One thrower's technique and arm speed will yield great distance and glide while another thrower's lack of technique/armspeed will result in a totally different flight.



This issue with the Force has nothing to do with arm speed or technique.

A 169g bright yellow First Run Force disc was an overstable pig while a 173g white First Run Force disc was a turnover disc. Two different throwers of varying armspeed and technique observed the exact same results.

This variability and lack of consistency from discs coming from the same mold and run is quite unacceptable.



Welcome to the world of wide-rimmed discs. Wraiths and Destroyers show absolutely the same amount of variability disc to disc. I have had lighter Wraiths that were as overstable as any heavy one and my lighter Destroyers are more stable than my heavy ones. Its not just the Force. Grip is also a big deal. The first couple of times I took the Force out I had some throws that flipped really hard. As I've become more comfortable with the grip and have been getting a smoother release I find the amount of flip in my Force very predictable, even in the wind.

I think that we just have to live with the variability of the wide rimmed molds, but it would be nice if certain colors were similar through out the runs.

I have a white 174 that is definitely more of a turnover, less stable flyer. Unfortunately, that wasn't what I was looking for. I would love to get my hands on one of the overstable pigs that some have been talking about. Anyone want to trade? I have only thrown my white one a few times.

JB

Now that the snow has melted, I'll take a stack of Forces to the field and see which ones are way overstable and which ones are less so. I'll label them on the price tag sticker.

I fina;;y came to the conclusion that the one they sent me was a freak. It would not flip over at all and even worked into a 25mph+ headwind but is too overstable to get good distance out of. Not bad but I wish I had one of the ones that bombs like Miles had because all I had for distance was one ESP crush.

I wish I had one of the ones that bombs like Miles had because all I had for distance was one ESP crush.



Its not the disc its the person doing the throwing! :D

Now that the snow has melted, I'll take a stack of Forces to the field and see which ones are way overstable and which ones are less so. I'll label them on the price tag sticker.



dont bother, bruce, just send me the overstable ones...heavy or light. I could use a 400'+ stationary disc.

I parked hole 10 at Cliff Stevens today from the parking lot into a slight headwind with my overstable Force. I've never done that before regardless of wind...

Will you trade me your turnover Force for my overstable pig? Mine was thrown only about a dozen times on wide open holes.

Will you trade me your turnover Force for my overstable pig? Mine was thrown only about a dozen times on wide open holes.




I'm thinking the pig ones will be the best but just need some break in time.

Will you trade me your turnover Force for my overstable pig? Mine was thrown only about a dozen times on wide open holes.



I'm not sure, but I think you were addressing me...If so I will be keeping my flippable Force because it is only understable if I really get on it. Otherwise I really like it for effortless hyzers and shots I'm not trying to throw farther than 420'. Yesterday I threw it with a touch of hyzer and got it to hold a really skinny S turn and finish pretty straight for about 410'. My other Force would require 500' of power to execute a similar line, something I don't have on the golf course. I think Matt is right though, the stable ones will break in slow and sweet.

If you want understable, find the domiest one you can get.

I don't think anyone can deny the talk this disc is getting, and popularity it will have. Discraft fans have been waiting for this disc for a long time. The previous 2.0 discs had nothing on this disc. The Pulse was just nothing worth talking about. And personally I prefer the Surge far more than Avenger.

I typically throw about 350, on a pretty good drive (2 finger backhand). I was getting near 400 out of this on different lines - I could straight up rip and it wouldn't turn (4 finger power), or I could lay it out sweetly with 2 fingers with some anny and the glide of the S pattern was amazing, it always came back. I had a 173 orange one with a slightly concave dome that I worked to bring back up a little. We still have 12" of snow on the ground so I can't speak to skips.

I'm glad the ESP is slightly 'loose' like FLX. I really do NOT like the older hard ESP. I could love this disc in Z though!

Will you trade me your turnover Force for my overstable pig? Mine was thrown only about a dozen times on wide open holes.



I'm not sure, but I think you were addressing me...If so I will be keeping my flippable Force because it is only understable if I really get on it. Otherwise I really like it for effortless hyzers and shots I'm not trying to throw farther than 420'. Yesterday I threw it with a touch of hyzer and got it to hold a really skinny S turn and finish pretty straight for about 410'. My other Force would require 500' of power to execute a similar line, something I don't have on the golf course. I think Matt is right though, the stable ones will break in slow and sweet.

If you want understable, find the domiest one you can get.




If you want either understable or overstable get domey. If you want them to be regular then get normal ones.

My lime green ones are extremely flat. So far (with limited throwing) they are flying like Firebirds. I always wanted a Discraft replacement for my CE FX's, but this is definitely not what I had expected. There definitely seems to be alot of variety between colors. I know people are liking some of them and I realize that wide-rimmed discs have more variables but this just doesn't jive with what I expect from Discraft.

I realize that wide-rimmed discs have more variables but this just doesn't jive with what I expect from Discraft.



<font size=6>AGREED 100%!!!</font>

For those who have thrown the Force and noticed there is a difference in stability. The difference in stability comes from the cooling process after the disc has been made. Different colors cool at different rates. This leads to how much or how less the disc shrinks. Brian Sullivan told me the green, orange, and yellow are stable because the rim is UP making it more stable. The white is less stable and the rim is down/flatter almost giving it more of a SS look/flight, hence a "flippier" or less stable disc. This is the same for a lot of plastic and why golfers look for and throw certain color discs.

For those who have thrown the Force and noticed there is a difference in stability. The difference in stability comes from the cooling process after the disc has been made. Different colors cool at different rates. This leads to how much or how less the disc shrinks. Brian Sullivan told me the green, orange, and yellow are stable because the rim is UP making it more stable. The white is less stable and the rim is down/flatter almost giving it more of a SS look/flight, hence a "flippier" or less stable disc. This is the same for a lot of plastic and why golfers look for and throw certain color discs.





For the most part lighter colors cool faster and will be less stable and domier than darker colors.

I threw a white one this week and i thought that is was pretty flippy. Just as fast as a destroyer, but slightly more glide.

I must have got a weird white one. Its not flippy. It does track right, but doesn't flip on regular throws. I've been tossing it in the 410-420 range. It is also a slightly see through white. I can see the color of my finger tips behind it.

I realize that wide-rimmed discs have more variables but this just doesn't jive with what I expect from Discraft.



&lt;font size=6&gt;AGREED 100%!!!&lt;/font&gt;



Have you guys been throwing much Discraft lately? As the discs have become wider rimmed, this phenomenon has existed. I remember when Crushes first came out. My first run blue was a neutral flyer, much like a glidier Orc. I got some green tourney stamped ones shortly after (2nd run most likely) that were impossible to turn over and finished very strong--wicked overstable. I also threw some flippy ones during that time period. When the Flash came out there was huge variance b/w discs. Some were flippy like Sidewinders, others were stable even for big arms. Then there was the Surge. I had a green Z Surge that out of the box was flippier than any Rogue, more like an Avenger SS. Then I have had flat, yellow Z Surges that were like new Spirits--useless as distance drivers. No matter how hard you threw them they just turned left. Once again, I have had all stabilities in between as well.

Now the Force has a little wider rim, so the variance is a little greater. The speed and glide are always the same though. Maybe run numbers old school Millenium-style are in order, because I have already found contradictions to everything that has been said regarding color/stability in this disc.

Discraft has a lot of mold variation. Much more than Innova. One can either choose to hate this, or embrace it. One could hate the fact that discs can vary greatly within one mold or think it is really a good thing. The Flash is a good example. You can go from a light orange domey ESP Flash all the way to a max weight opaque yellow super flat Z Flash and cover the entire stability range of the entire Innova chart from turnover to overstable without ever changing molds.

The Crush is similar using the same formula.

I wish I had one of the ones that bombs like Miles



Matt, I'm LOVING my yellow 174g-er. Stable enough to throw into a pretty strong headwind (15-20mph) when released with enough hyzer angle. Stands up, gently rolls over into a very Loooooooooooooooooooong L to R glide before hooking up and coming down softly. Goes very far with what seems to be little effort.

Looking forward to trying one of the domier Orange ones that are reported to be more overstable next. HeeHaw Grandma!

I realize that wide-rimmed discs have more variables but this just doesn't jive with what I expect from Discraft.



&lt;font size=6&gt;AGREED 100%!!!&lt;/font&gt;



This disc sounds like it's ALL OVER THE PLACE. Everyone is trying to FORCE it into being a great disc ... that's not what I would expect from Discraft.

Discraft has a lot of mold variation. Much more than Innova. One can either choose to hate this, or embrace it. One could hate the fact that discs can vary greatly within one mold or think it is really a good thing. The Flash is a good example. You can go from a light orange domey ESP Flash all the way to a max weight opaque yellow super flat Z Flash and cover the entire stability range of the entire Innova chart from turnover to overstable without ever changing molds.

The Crush is similar using the same formula.



I agree with some of your statement, but not totally. Yes, the newer drivers are inconsistent in their stability. This is partly because of their speed and wing size, and partly because they have been experimenting with plastics and changing their blends. They had to change Z plastic in the Flash and Surge to make them weigh up and I think that they have been doing some softer runs of Z for the heck of it or because its what the PDGA wants. Most of their mids and drivers are very consistent, especially in Z. The Buzz is remarkably consistent across plastics--their are little variances, but give me any Buzz and three holes to learn it on and I'm good to go.

One of the reasons that Innova seems more consistent is that they produce many more discs. They experiment with plastic blends on some runs, but the number of these experimental runs compared with the number of mass production runs is small. Innova also has almost twice the models that Discraft has and many overlap. On top of this, almost all of their distance drivers have been and are being constantly re-tooled to adhere to the whims of Dave D. A lot of Innova players complain about finding the Teebirds that they like, etc. Not to mention that most top Innova pros have a bag at least half full of discs that are no longer in production (CE, old Rocs, etc.), where if you look at the bags of the top Discraft guys, they are throwing much newer stuff. This tells me that Discraft is definetely making improvements in a linear fashion, where Innova is producing new discs and plastics that their players do not like as well as stuff they've made in the past.

All in all both companies are great and make excellent discs and plastic. There is no one "killer" argument that proves one is better than the other. Throw what you like.

I realize that wide-rimmed discs have more variables but this just doesn't jive with what I expect from Discraft.



&lt;font size=6&gt;AGREED 100%!!!&lt;/font&gt;



This disc sounds like it's ALL OVER THE PLACE. Everyone is trying to FORCE it into being a great disc ... that's not what I would expect from Discraft.



This is the best disc that Discraft has put out in years. I have 8 Forces, and only one of them flies significantly different from the rest. Most are OVERstable, meaning you are going to have to work them a little to get them straight. This is a predictable process. Also, the flight pattern is very solid, like a super fast Teebird. I could never depend on the Destroyer like I can the Force. I threw the Destroyer for a couple of months because it can go farther than any disc I've thrown. That being said, I played 8 tournament rounds with the Destroyer and it did not work out once the way I intended one time. It has to be thrown fast to cruise flat, and if thrown a little harder, it flips. The Force flies stable at lower speeds and is at the same time more HSS. All in all I love the Force and it will be in my bag for a long time and I'm not Forcing anything except distance holes. :D

I have two protos that were sent to me and I like the way it flattens when I throw it with hyzer and flies fast and straight. It skips really hard also. I needed this disc in my bag and I am looking forward to getting more stable ones for headwinds.

I was throwing a white Force yesterday and today. It was not overstable. It was long and straight with some fade at the end when released flat. We played the Marysville mudflats in Marysville, Ohio, today and I got some nice throws with it on the longer holes.

OK, Mike Here's the Truth's impression:
Got two forces from the local disc "Den" in Kzoo. They had two close-to-max...a white w/ green scale-shifting in at 173/4 and a solid red w/ white at 173. I've been up on this thread and no one has mentioned the true red yet.

Went to the field next to knollwood which has an elevated tee and the length of a soccer field and a half. wind was blowing around 20mph constant (as we have a freak blizzard on the 2nd day of spring)deadnuts east to west.
I also took a star and champ destroyer, max weight, for comparison.

I threw the destroyers first for gaging D. both flipped in the L to R wind. I threw the white first under your advisement. As flat as I could ripped an 80%er and it boomed out of my hand and seemed to gain speed as it went. Although it had blazing fast speed, without the elevated tee, I would have flipped it out. the disc did work out towards the end of flight, but landed about 40' off my line.
The red flew more stable with just a slight anny but pulled out nicely. I was within aceptable perameters and really, really far down the field. approximately 10-15 feet short of the destroyer, but I definately put more rip into them.

After a long walk, I lined up with a RHBH hyzer wind and threw with R-L crosswind. Another flat test throw, I ripped into these two shots and white locked onto alittle anny (probably b/c the wing got under the wind) and it rode for a mile, ending up hyzering out by the end of the flight uphill. The red, showing it's stability did not get into the wind and flew slightly overstable never bowing to the wind.
Next elevated throws were He-Man rips with hyzer....Left to right cross again. BOOM!! I pumped the white and it flipped slightly but came back to line overshooting my previous flat attempt by at least 30-40'. The red flew once again, more stable and also gained speed at the end of the flight. It crossed the line of trajectory and finished superhyzer, which put a :) on my face.

Next was the stationary test. one goal post to another. I tried to throw a lazy hyzer the whole way and the red accomplished this goal moving about 10' off the right post of the soccer goal....the white was money as it flipped to find flat and rocketed like Pele' booted it....GOALLLLLLL! it tomestoned level into the uphill behind the goal. This may be a little far fetched but to me it was like a ztracker or one of those new flx XL...but easier to throw and about 100' further.
Then the snow came and I left.

Overall impression:
Nice disc, maybe a true 174/175 (max) would suit my needs both stationary and w/ a run-up. too much torq will overpower this disc...70-80% power is perfect for big arms. the red is definately more stable than the white, both disc have immediate spots in my bag...longer tbirds/avengers and tl's/xls. I'll buy more! Maybe with this disc, win more too.

Great review.


This cracked me up. Definitely going to borrow the term.


Next elevated throws were He-Man rips with hyzer....

I've got some white 175-176s that are heavy stable pigs. They literally are untouched by wind under 15mph.

The Force will be sweet for hole #4, 10, and 14 at Robert Morris. Hell, hole 15 might be a spike hyzer now :D.

This morning I will be celebrating Easter by taking my Forces to the Fly 18 ball golf course to see how far they really can fly!

my white force will have to stay in my disc closet for another week or so...14" in Richland on Friday.
Lots of overtime this week so I"m looking forward to taking the red one out to Albion and letting loose.
Happy Easter Force Fans!

I played my first real round with it today - 20-30mph winds from the west which created throws into, with, and left and right with the wind. I really like the force. Mine is a 173 orange with a slightly sunken top. Being my first round I tend to be off on release timing with a 4 finger grip so I threw mostly 2 finger. This disc was holding with any wind angle. It was straight as can be for 275-325' with a nice dependable fade for the last 50 feet. It turned slightly on me on on first drive of the day, with a left to right wind off a field. No turns again once I got my timing and release down. I threw 3 finger a few times and got about 360-380'.

On the other hand, my 169 star destroyer was also BOMBING. I was cranking on it just as much, it turned ever so slightly and always came back. It had more glide too, that's one thing that surprised me that the force was not gliding too well, just straight as an arrow and level.

Different discs, but same day. I was using all overstable discs in the wind we had today. Just wanted to comment that the FLX drone NEVER thought of turning on me. I was also pleased to see my Torque holding a line on a hard snap, with much more glide than the drone. The drone was definitely a worker bee today though!

Mine is a 173 orange with a slightly sunken top.
...that's one thing that surprised me that the force was not gliding too well, just straight as an arrow and level.



I have always found that when the dome sinks the glide goes with it.

I have been throwing a 174g yellow force for a few rounds. I really like it. It's moderately overstable, fights headwinds, has huge glide with incredible speed, and although i primarily throw RHBH it has produced some of the longest side arm shots i've ever thrown.

With that said, i tried a friend's 170g yellow Force that he was reporting to be an overstable HOG. I carefully inspected the disc and found it to be identical to mine with the exception of it being 4g lighter. I tried to throw it exactly like i've been throwing my 174g yellow one. This light little guy was SUPER overstable. It never even thought about breaking right(RHBH) on the highspeed turn. I thought that maybe i subconciously threw it with too much hyzer b/c it was lighter so i rethrew it, this time into a 19-22mph headwind....side by side with my 174g-er. My heavier one did a huge "S" and flew 400' into that crazy wind. The lighter one didn't even think about turning over into the same wind.

Obviously there is less plastic in the 170g disc compared to the 174g disc. I can't say this for sure, but i would have to think that the lighter disc would have to have more plastic in the rim, and less in the flight plate....compared to the 174g. Is this the reason for the variances in stability with this particular mold? The more plastic in the rim = more overstable? :D

You are asking the question and there is a thread dedicated to asking you questions?

You might need Yoda to figure this out. Haha :D

I have three and have sold about 15 so far to mostly local guys. We all went out the first day or so and they were all pretty consistent in different weights and colors. I think overall its just plain ole less stable than I'd like, but consistantly so. Even with that I haven't had any real issues flipping them.

Put 2 173 Forces in my bag 2 days ago and played 2 rounds with them. They were white before the dye job. They both fly identical. Into the wind they give control and distance and they hold a hyzer line when asked to. I got just under 400 ft with them and for my game that is acceptable. Enjoy this disc!!!

Mine is a 173 orange with a slightly sunken top.
...that's one thing that surprised me that the force was not gliding too well, just straight as an arrow and level.



I have always found that when the dome sinks the glide goes with it.



The Star Destroyer has no dome and had MAD glide compared to the Force. I'd like a force with more glide very much.

Mine is a 173 orange with a slightly sunken top.
...that's one thing that surprised me that the force was not gliding too well, just straight as an arrow and level.



I have always found that when the dome sinks the glide goes with it.



The Star Destroyer has no dome and had MAD glide compared to the Force. I'd like a force with more glide very much.



The Destroyer has a thicker and more convex rim configuration meaning it relies less on its dome for glide. The Force has a thinner, more concave rim, causing it to rely more on its dome for glide.

Which of the two discs do you think requires more speed and spin to fly "correctly"? I am also wondering which disc has a higher moment of inertia assuming equal mass (weight distributed further from the center)

Which of the two discs do you think requires more speed and spin to fly "correctly"? I am also wondering which disc has a higher moment of inertia assuming equal mass (weight distributed further from the center)



The Destroyer requires more speed to fly and has more weight distributed in the rim.

I got a couple of the Protos I might trade....

z

The super overstable one I received a few weeks ago is finally breaking in and goes FAR on any type of hyzer line and gets there fast. Oh and the Pulse is a better disc than I had anticipated in the wind.

I also got my 1st discraft ace this weekend with a challenger.

The super overstable one I received a few weeks ago is finally breaking in and goes FAR on any type of hyzer line and gets there fast. Oh and the Pulse is a better disc than I had anticipated in the wind.

I also got my 1st discraft ace this weekend with a challenger.



What is happening?

The super overstable one I received a few weeks ago is finally breaking in and goes FAR on any type of hyzer line and gets there fast. Oh and the Pulse is a better disc than I had anticipated in the wind.

I also got my 1st discraft ace this weekend with a challenger.



What is happening?


:eek:

The super overstable one I received a few weeks ago is finally breaking in and goes FAR on any type of hyzer line and gets there fast. Oh and the Pulse is a better disc than I had anticipated in the wind.

I also got my 1st discraft ace this weekend with a challenger.



What is happening?


:eek:



A business deal? :D

The super overstable one I received a few weeks ago is finally breaking in and goes FAR on any type of hyzer line and gets there fast. Oh and the Pulse is a better disc than I had anticipated in the wind.

I also got my 1st discraft ace this weekend with a challenger.



What is happening?


:eek:



A business deal? :D



Well well well we may not have more than just a couple Discraft guys in TX!!! HollA

Slowly but surely the TEAM Discraft is becoming a FORCE to be reckoned with.......Now if I would just start practicing maybe I could be a part of that FORCE!!! :o:o:o

You guys realize this is an individual sport, right.

you are as team-oriented as anyone, mr. gateway. who cares?

you are as team-oriented as anyone, mr. gateway. who cares?



I think he's referring to the fact that it doesnt matter if you are on a team or not. You still have to play your game, and just because others in your team do better doesnt mean you will too. Disc golf doesnt reward teams, it rewards the individuals.

Duh.

When is the last time a competitor sank birdie for me...?

Yeah but it's still fun to be in a gang :p

I LOVE my force. I never use new discs in tournament play, but I made an exception and used a Force during the BG ams this past weekend because of the wind. It didn't take long to learn and made a big difference in my headwind drives. I don't play wind well and normally don't throw super overstable drivers, but I really love the way the Force worked. I'm sure it shaved some strokes from my total. Thanks again Discraft! rWc3523

Soooo which of these are seeming to be more over stable? We got orange with a poppy dome and red with no dome.........

I thought the domey destroyers were much more over stable, is it the same with these?

The domey orange ones are proving to be the most overstable.

The domey orange are mad overstable. My domey orange is as overstable as my z-predator...only faster and longer.

the dome is not what makes it stable, but the dome usually comes with the stable ones. for example if the wing is flatter and pointed straight out, they are more stable, if the wing is angled more downward on the edges, it is less stable. probably harder to tell just by looking, but mostly its the orange and yellow ones from the first run that are pigs. im told that the wing angle determines both the stabillity AND the dome. the dome doesnt dictate how stable it is, just a byproduct.

edited

Don't know if I understood what you meant by the wing shape but usually if a disc with the nose pointed down will be more understable than a disc with a normal nose. That is why tuning a disc works.

it came out wrong, i think what you said is what i meant.

the dome is created because the wing is straighter out creating less tension on the flight plate. flatter because of more tension when the wing is pointed more downward on the edges.

I'm sure glad I came on this forum and read everybody's experiences. It helped me understand what to look for. I went and bought 2 forces: a red 174g. with a minimal dome (but not flat as what some people have described), and a yellow 172g. with a minimal dome(still the same). My decision was based of seeing the actual dome variation in a stack of 30 with 3 different colors. All of the oranges in the stack had huge domes...not good for me when I torque a disc. All of yellow and red had variations from flat to a moderate dome...but none like the orange. I didn't want a flat rim because they obviously are the stable pigs people have been describing. That is why I chose the minimal dome...I can get good glide and still be overstable. When I went and threw them yesterday with 20mph winds they were AWSOME!! They are exactly what I wanted to fill the void in my bag. I now have total confidence throwing any line I want with this. I for one applaud the variability...more golfers can use it if they know what to look for. Smaller arm will want more dome, and bigger arms just the opposite(you just have to give up some glide)

my light green ones are super flat and STOOPID overstable. My orange one with minimal dome is much more manageable but still pretty overstable.

Now that I have thrown this disc for a few weeks I can definetely say that this is a great disc. I have 6 different ones and none are the overstable pigs (I did throw an orange one @ 171 that was insane overstable), one is super domey and more flippy (but not that predictably). I have white (overstable but not sick) and yellow (stability of an average Destroyer). All are max weight. These discs are better than anything I've thrown for these situations:

All out open D.
This disc is teaching me to throw with a little more reach and torque because I've never had a disc that I could throw like this and keep stable. It is great for open D, especially in unfavorable wind conditions that really hurt the performance of slower and less stable drivers. Doesn't lose too much D throwing hyzers into head/left to right winds. It is hard to keep the nose down with a tailwind and this is not the best driver for such situations.

Fairway shots that need to be hard, low, and fade/skip like a MOFO.
Throwing a Force low and hard with a lot of hyzer is an incredibly fun thing to do. There is a shot on one of my home courses that needs to do this. With slower drivers you have to start out near the ceiling and then fade and skip. Perfect execution and you still have a 25' putt. The Force executes this shot perfectly @ three feet of height and skipping 50% of the way. Forehand or backhand, if you need to fade and skip hard this disc is the ticket.

Wind....
On Sunday I played in winds gusting over 30mph. The final 12 holes on the course played INTO the wind. Two were water holes. I was Throwing the Force flat/slight hyzer with smoothness and it was getting good, flat flights into the wind that were predictable and allowed me to get close enough for easy 3's (what more can you ask for in those conditions).

One other thing I like about the Force is that it can carry with some air under it or with the nose up. When I was throwing Wraiths and Destroyers I would choose the Wraith on any shot that needed to have some height on it b/c the Star Destroyers need to fly low to go far. The Force can fly far low or high and does not seem to show a preference.

All in all the Force is an incredible disc that is predictable and versatile. Discraft somewhat failed in its first attempt at a superfast driver (Spectra), but the Force more than makes up for it. It seems like a blend of the best characteristics of the Wraith, Destroyer, and now the Excaliber. One mold instead of 3.

Now that I have thrown this disc for a few weeks I can definetely say that this is a great disc. I have 6 different ones and none are the overstable pigs (I did throw an orange one @ 171 that was insane overstable), one is super domey and more flippy (but not that predictably). I have white (overstable but not sick) and yellow (stability of an average Destroyer). All are max weight. These discs are better than anything I've thrown for these situations:

All out open D.
This disc is teaching me to throw with a little more reach and torque because I've never had a disc that I could throw like this and keep stable. It is great for open D, especially in unfavorable wind conditions that really hurt the performance of slower and less stable drivers. Doesn't lose too much D throwing hyzers into head/left to right winds. It is hard to keep the nose down with a tailwind and this is not the best driver for such situations.

Fairway shots that need to be hard, low, and fade/skip like a MOFO.
Throwing a Force low and hard with a lot of hyzer is an incredibly fun thing to do. There is a shot on one of my home courses that needs to do this. With slower drivers you have to start out near the ceiling and then fade and skip. Perfect execution and you still have a 25' putt. The Force executes this shot perfectly @ three feet of height and skipping 50% of the way. Forehand or backhand, if you need to fade and skip hard this disc is the ticket.

Wind....
On Sunday I played in winds gusting over 30mph. The final 12 holes on the course played INTO the wind. Two were water holes. I was Throwing the Force flat/slight hyzer with smoothness and it was getting good, flat flights into the wind that were predictable and allowed me to get close enough for easy 3's (what more can you ask for in those conditions).

One other thing I like about the Force is that it can carry with some air under it or with the nose up. When I was throwing Wraiths and Destroyers I would choose the Wraith on any shot that needed to have some height on it b/c the Star Destroyers need to fly low to go far. The Force can fly far low or high and does not seem to show a preference.

All in all the Force is an incredible disc that is predictable and versatile. Discraft somewhat failed in its first attempt at a superfast driver (Spectra), but the Force more than makes up for it. It seems like a blend of the best characteristics of the Wraith, Destroyer, and now the Excaliber. One mold instead of 3.



I could not agree more.... Tejas has been windy every day this winter it seems and this disc has been my go to disc for windy day and the few days we have not had a lot of wind I still have been going to this disc a lot.... I have one orange overstable pig think its a 173 its like a flick but more glide!

For those of you who are not on Discgolfersr.us yet,

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2008/04/04-0939384852T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/user_imageredirect.php?iid=2029046)

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:D

I just picked up a red 174 esp force today seems to fly the same as my overstable orange one...... is this the case for all red esp forces so far across the board?

I'd like to get my hands on a red one. I like the white ones the best so far. Mine are heavy with modest domes and they are the fastest and have a stability that I can compare only to a much faster Teebird. Not truly overstable as they fly long and straight with a good fade when thrown flat, but with excellent resistance to turnover. The few other colors I've thrown were flippier (yellow), and truly overstable (orange and day glow green). I had my longest headwind drive ever on hole 18 at Cliff Stevens yesterday with my white Force (only 20' short of my longest tailwind drive).

I know where there are some red ones. I also still have your heavy SS avenger.

i know where some red ones are too!!!!

:D

:D




I gotta <font color="red"> RED </font>one

I know where there are some red ones. I also still have your heavy SS avenger.



I just got my local store to order like 60 more Forces, so I'll have plenty to pick through next week. Besides, I can't imagine liking the reds any more than my whites. John, about the heavy SS...I think I've decided to stick with my ESP XL and my flippy ESP Flash as they've both hit metal this week! No room for the Avenger in the bag right now. Thanks anyway.

I got some new Forces last night to test out. I bought one red, and one green, both 174-175. Guess what? After all the ranting and raving about the inconsistencies of these discs, the red and the green fly about exactly like my whites. So all mine fly pretty much the same with the exception of one super domey yellow that is a bit flippy. After that, my other yellows are a tad less hss than my other colors (white, red, green). Red and white are about the same and are the most overstable max weights I've thrown (sick overstables have all been in the low 170s). I've got a feel for this disc now and I must say that the max weight ones fly pretty consistant one color to the next. I still have not thrown blue. Great job Discraft, I love this disc!

After some more throws, the red is the most overstable max weight Force I've thrown. I rip it as hard as I can and it makes me feel like a weeny. It will be great in the wind!

After watching Cale BOOOOOOM a force at the SRO this weekend during the skins I got 2 white 174's.
They are a little more workable then the x-calber with the same distance and finsh.
The x-calliber might have a touch more distance(+/- 10 feet)but ESP plastic feel's better then the eco star.

I was also bombing my Force at SRO (for me anyway, not comparatively). This has been exactly what I'm looking for, holds a straight line, glides far, and fades predictably at the end. When will Discraft make this in Z plastic so I don't have to worry about esp getting beat and turning when I so badly need it NOT to?!

i am perfectly happy only to have this one in ESP. they hold up amazingly well even in the ridiculous amount of woods that i play in
mj

i am perfectly happy only to have this one in ESP. they hold up amazingly well even in the ridiculous amount of woods that i play in
mj




Agreed! Then again I wouldn't mind trying a Z to see how they compare. :D

i certainly dont want it if it is going to be more stable, and i really prefer to have most of my drivers in ESP

i certainly dont want it if it is going to be more stable, and i really prefer to have most of my drivers in ESP



I have been using this instead of a Pred so having a few in different stabilities would be good in my book. Maybe the Z ones wouldn't flatten too much from hyzer on long lines.

mine dont flatten on hyzer lines unless i yank them

mine dont flatten on hyzer lines unless i yank them

My overstable one doesn't either but instead of trying to get some more like it maybe the Z would always be like it.

oh, well i have a nice stack of really overstable ones.

oh, well i have a nice stack of really overstable ones.




What color? So far all my reds and oranges are overstable with the Mint greens being slightly flippy at high speeds.

i have all oranges, with a few white ones that i use for rollers

i have all oranges, with a few white ones that i use for rollers



I tried to get some whites to try for distance but I think they were out. I assume it is because people want them for that reason. :D

i only like the white ones for rollers, they are sick for that purpose

Mike-
So your saying that the white are less stable then reds?
Or do you just like an overstable disc for rolling.
Granted I have throw'n my white ones about 20 times.
But they are nice and overstable like a 1/4 beat in pred.

Mike-
So your saying that the white are less stable then reds?
Or do you just like an overstable disc for rolling.
Granted I have throw'n my white ones about 20 times.
But they are nice and overstable like a 1/4 beat in pred.



From what I have heard/seen the red and Orange are the most overstable with green and yellow in the middle and white being the understable ones. Of course there are some that don't fly like others the same color but for the most part that is how it is. Anyone thrown the blue ones? I saw some this weekend that looked like they would bomb and be slightly overstable.

Mike-
So your saying that the white are less stable then reds?
Or do you just like an overstable disc for rolling.
Granted I have throw'n my white ones about 20 times.
But they are nice and overstable like a 1/4 beat in pred.


yes i am saying that the white ones are understable, well the white ones that i have are understable but tose are just the ones that i have.

My whites are in between my yellows and my reds. Yellow is the most understable color I've thrown, and I have thrown 4 different yellow ones. Reds are the most overstable I have. Blues and greens are like the whites, stable with a slight turn at high speeds. I played Red Hawk last weekend and the Force was my dream disc out there. Stable and fast in the wind, it gets better distance on the sure hyzer than any disc I've ever thrown.