While trying to explain some of the more obscure rules to a new player the other day, I was getting my terminology mixed up regarding unsafe/unplayable lies. So I pulled out my handy rule book and could find nothing other than the unplayable section.

If memory serves correctly, I remember what the current rule book defines as unplayable being in the former editions but there was also an "unsafe lie" category that allowed you to move to any point on the fairway, perpendicular but no closer to the basket with a 2 stroke penalty.

Am I just making this up or did this get removed from the rule book?

Old Rule. No Unsafe Lie rule now, just what player has the right to call an unplayable lie and take the penalty.

chuck: thanks for the response...so what if the 5 meters backwards doesn't yield any playable lie, a cliff for instance.

Then you can use the previous lie.

but this is assuming the original lie is unplayable.

Then you can use the previous lie.



This is new in the Unplayable rule although technically you could have returned to the previous lie in the old rule but it was really punitive since you already had to take a 2-throw penalty instead of one as it is now.

but this is assuming the original lie is unplayable.



It is by definition if the player calls it unplayable. No one else can. This updated rule pretty much parallels the rule ball golf has had for 100 plus years now.

so....if the original lie is unplayable and 5 meters backwards doesn't yield a playable lie, what do you do?

Go read 803.06

Golf clap.

Previous lie. By definition, the previous lie had to be playable if the player made the throw from there. I guess you could have an extremely rare situation where maybe a player was playing from ice on a pond, the ice broke through as he made the throw onto thin ice such that nowhere on the line and previous lie is playable any more. Could happen in Minnesota about now, even at league tomorrow. Maybe we need to have the rule changed to any previous lie on the hole so you could at least return to the tee in the worst case?

this seems to be getting more complicated than i intended.

let's say that i throw my drive. upon coming to the disc, i see that i can, in no way, play the disc from where it lies. if i take up to 5 meters backwards and still have no relief. what do i do?

Take one throw penalty and retee making your third throw.

Take one throw penalty and retee making your third throw.



Basically you might as well have lost it. :D

I hope this was the new guy's disc Dixon! :DWe missed you at Texas Teams.

awww, man. that hurt to not be there. i hope i am invited back and am available next year. even if i didn't win a match, if everyone was able to move down a peg, the Z woulda made it 2 in a row.

again, my apologies for letting you guys down.

awww, man. that hurt to not be there. i hope i am invited back and am available next year. even if i didn't win a match, if everyone was able to move down a peg, the Z woulda made it 2 in a row.


again, my apologies for letting you guys down.





Zboaz peeps are so funny.

i didnt realize that unplayable could be determined to easily. ..

so to complicate things further, here is another hypothetical situation.

say i threw from the tee and my disc went down a valley and into the water, water being OB. could i call this unplayable and retee shooting 3, or does it have to be taken inbounds at the water (3) then unplayable retee shooting 4?

basically does the unplayable trump the ob or 2 meter? or do those come first?

Unless the TD specifies that OB in that location can ONLY be played from say a drop zone, the regular OB rule allows you to retee without needing to call the unplayable.

Since OB allows you to rethrow from the previous lie, It is really a non-issue. Unfortunately the way I read the rules with 2m, you can end up being doubly penalized. You mark the lie below where the disc was with a +1 and if you don't like it and want an unplayable lie, you then relocate and take another +1. I would prefer the 2m rule to have the same relief options as an unplayable lie. The simplest way to do that would be to declare the discs above 2m as a mandatory unplayable lie.

The simplest way to do that would be to declare the discs above 2m as a mandatory unplayable lie.



Good idea for when 2m is in effect.

This happened at the Masters cup, I was marshaling and had to make a call on a disc that was in a tree above a canyon. You have to take the two meter penalty before calling the lie unplayable and reteeing. It also worked the other way, where Felberg's 25 ft missed putt rolled hundreds of ft down a canyon. he called it unplayable and reputted saving himself a stroke or two for sure. Some people disputed the action of Felburg, but it is perfectly legal. Knowing that and the same for putts that roll down hill ob like at the Memorial can save you strokes.
Gaff

Thanks for clarifying.

I just want to be sure I understand this all correctly.

IF I am OB, or if I wish to choose for any reason (or no reason at all), I can rethrow from my previous lie, plus one stroke (and of course the throw that got me there).

i.e. Tee shot goes OB or "unplayable" (as determined by me only), I have the choice to retee, as my 3rd shot.

Thanks the clarification.

The only time you don't have that choice is if the TD restricts OB to a drop zone, but yes you are correct.

This is still true, even if I've picked up my mini from my previous lie, right? Meaning I don't need to 'call it in advance'.
In that case I'd get consensus from the group about the position where the previous lie was.

right?

Correct.

let's say that i throw my drive. upon coming to the disc, i see that i can, in no way, play the disc from where it lies. if i take up to 5 meters backwards and still have no relief. what do i do?

Take one throw penalty and retee making your third throw.





Wouldn't the current updated phrasing of 803.06 also imply it could be used iterative?

I.e. you declare your lie unplayable. Relocate to within 5 meters backwards to establish a new lie, taking a 1 stroke penalty. No problems so far.

But, say the relocated lie is still within the nasty patch of poison ivy/thorn bushes/viper's nest...

Now, since according to the rule, a lie can be declared unplayable by the player, wouldn't another legal option at this point be to declare the "relocated lie" unplayable, find a new, hopefully playable lie within 5m backwards from the relocated lie, taking a second stroke penalty? And so on...

Technically, Yes. It's like the casual relief rule where your first 5m back is "free" without penalty. Then, you can go back up to 5m farther (or previous lie) with a penalty by declaring an Unplayable.

Seems to me that 803.05 makes a case for just about any lie in the woods to be deamed for casual relief if a person so chooses (basically, find a stick that is behind and in front of your mark, then you can obtain relief.) Just seems pretty wide open to interpretation with loose leaves and debris part.

But you usually can move the loose leaves and debris which makes it moot.