I'm really loving my Buzz's and would like to know the order of stability among the different runs/plastics of the Buzz's. Any help would be most appreciated.

from my experience from most to least, first run, 2nd run, esp, regular z, D

My ESP is a pig. Cryztal is like a First Run.

from my experience from most to least, first run, 2nd run, esp, regular z, D



regular Z, X, then D

1st
2nd
FLX
Cryztal
ESP
Z
X
D

there is now also the buzz speckle ss (I've only seen these in 08 am nat stamps). Pick one up. straight as an arrow from start to finish on the angle of release.

i throw all kinds of buzzzes, it is the best midrange. the end.

I own about 50 Buzzes in all the various plastics, and in my collection I have contradictions to each poster's list. Conclusion: The Buzzz as a mold is right on the line between stable and understable. In all runs of all plastics the Buzz can fall either way. There are definetely patterns, but no sure fire way to predict if the Buzz you buy will be like the one you lost.

Most often the regular production Z Buzz is the most stable/overstable. 1st runs, 2nd FR, and Crystals all should start out stable/overstable as well. ESPs are the straightest out of the box in my experience. Everyone that I've thrown new has been a bit understable at high speeds where the Z versions have "0" high speed turn when new. The FLX buzz is the most understable, especially at high speeds.

I own about 50 Buzzes in all the various plastics, and in my collection I have contradictions to each poster's list. Conclusion: The Buzzz as a mold is right on the line between stable and understable. In all runs of all plastics the Buzz can fall either way. There are definetely patterns, but no sure fire way to predict if the Buzz you buy will be like the one you lost.

Most often the regular production Z Buzz is the most stable/overstable. 1st runs, 2nd FR, and Crystals all should start out stable/overstable as well. ESPs are the straightest out of the box in my experience. Everyone that I've thrown new has been a bit understable at high speeds where the Z versions have "0" high speed turn when new. The FLX buzz is the most understable, especially at high speeds.



I've found the above to be very accurate...

I prefer the 1st, 2nd Runs that are more overstable... the ESP was the least overstable HSS wise. FLX was somewhere in between.

I really like the buzzz for forehand 300' straight shots, and the 1st Runs are most consistent IMO.

I've only thrown a couple of Buzz's, but I'm liking them so far. The FLX Buzz (white 170, don't know how much that matters) is one of the most intuitive discs I have ever picked up. It seems to know exactly where to go, even when I don't quite throw it right. I think the third time it left my hand, I popped it up a hill about 170', expecting it to hyzer out next to the basket, like my Rocs. instead, it flipped up slight anhyzer and stuck in the chains, which really surprised me. That was a couple of weeks ago, and I've thrown it for several rounds since and it has often hit chains farther out than I would feel comfortable running almost any other disc. It is just understable enough to turn towards the basket when most other midranges would be hyzering out, but at that point it is going slow enough that even when it misses, it doesn't fall far... strange disc, but wonderful.

The only other buzz in the closet is a first run Holiday Buzz (red, max-weight i think), which is very similar in stability to a Super Roc.

The following statement, which I've also heard from many other devoted Buzzz throwers:


There are definetely patterns, but no sure fire way to predict if the Buzz you buy will be like the one you lost.



is the biggest thing that keeps me from trying the Buzzz.

I only throw DX Rancho Rocs, (keeping multiple copies in varying stages of wear) so I cannot speak for other Roc molds and/or plastics, but when I buy a new one it flies the same way as the last time I bought a new one. Every time.

I am not trying to hijack this thread or start a flamewar. I am very intrigued by the Buzzz and some of it's flight characteristics and would consider auditioning it if it were not for this undependability.


sleepy

I'm one of those "blessed" ones to have their first buzzz be a first run buzzz - incredible disc! However, I have not been able to find a buzzz that can duplicate the stabillity and straitness of that disc, and I have not been willing to shell out extra dough for another 1st run. I have been marginally dissapointed by the other incarnations of this disc. The grip and feel is amazing, but the flight is not what I want. Here's my take:

From most stable to least stable (when new) -

1st run
ESP
Z
FLX
X
Crystal
GT

LOL ... I love this thread. I've been waiting for it for a couple of years. ;)

More please. :)

I only throw the Z and D buzz.... I have about 4 diffrent Z Buzz's (all max wheight 3 are orange 1 is green) and they all fly the same for me. I just started to throw the D buzz but it flys like a broke in flat top rock for me with more glide!

i've been throwing buzzz's since the first run came out. I'd say that so far this is how i would rate the plastic....
Overstable to Understable from what I've thrown:
Cryztal
1st run
Midnight
FLX
Z Flat Top
ESP
Z Domey
X
D

I don't like Domey Buzzzes as they fly way different. I only like the flat tops like the original runs.
FLX started out on the overstable side like a 1st run, and is beating in slowly. I prefer this as my main Midrange...
.. Cryztal was slightly domey, but a little overstable. Midnights are very close to 1st runs.

This is how i would rate the discs, but That also doesn't mean it's correct. Most of these plastics i've only thrown 1 disc from so i could have gotten a fluke disc from that mold.

-Scott Lewis

i've been throwing buzzz's since the first run came out. I'd say that so far this is how i would rate the plastic....
Overstable to Understable from what I've thrown:
Cryztal
1st run
Midnight
FLX
Z Flat Top
ESP
Z Domey
X
D

I don't like Domey Buzzzes as they fly way different. I only like the flat tops like the original runs.
FLX started out on the overstable side like a 1st run, and is beating in slowly. I prefer this as my main Midrange...
.. Cryztal was slightly domey, but a little overstable. Midnights are very close to 1st runs.

This is how i would rate the discs, but That also doesn't mean it's correct. Most of these plastics i've only thrown 1 disc from so i could have gotten a fluke disc from that mold.

-Scott Lewis



I'd rate them the same as Scott except for the Cryztal, which I would omit, since I have never thrown one.

nanook

the only buzzz's I have thrown are Cryztal FLX

where do these rate in terms of stability to the others?




.

My buzz according to stability, most overstable to understable:

Makers Mark Whiskey
Southern Comfort w/ Lime
Tequila
Sake
Boulevard Wheat
Natural Light

MC

LOL...M_to_the_C, ftw!

:D


sleepy

The following statement, which I've also heard from many other devoted Buzzz throwers:


There are definetely patterns, but no sure fire way to predict if the Buzz you buy will be like the one you lost.



is the biggest thing that keeps me from trying the Buzzz.

I only throw DX Rancho Rocs, (keeping multiple copies in varying stages of wear) so I cannot speak for other Roc molds and/or plastics, but when I buy a new one it flies the same way as the last time I bought a new one. Every time.

I am not trying to hijack this thread or start a flamewar. I am very intrigued by the Buzzz and some of it's flight characteristics and would consider auditioning it if it were not for this undependability.


sleepy



This is simply because a Rancho Roc starts out overstable. Its much harder to tell the slight differences b/t two overstable discs than two stable/straight discs. A stable disc is going to be straight or turn over, so a little difference in stability can be seen more in the flight. This is the only reason that the Buzz seems "more inconsistant" than the Roc. This is not really a fair comparison. Most people don't simply buy overstable discs and beat them stable because some molds that start out less stable fly/glide better. Are we to label all stable to understable discs unpredictable because molding variations affect their flight more dramatically?

When you buy a Buzz in Z/ESP/FLX plastic you get a disc that will fly consistantly and break in very slow. A dx Roc is going to fly different after the first couple of decent hits. Is that consistant? How long can you keep a dx Roc "new" and overstable?

The biggest difference b/t a buzz and a roc is the height that they need to work. Buzzes fly low and straight longer than a Roc. A Roc can be thrown high and float longer than a Buzz. Pick your poison. I'll take my Buzz and out throw a Roc on any line other than the high/floaty shot or possibly as an approach disc. Aside from that, the Buzz is the most versatile disc ever made.

This is simply because a Rancho Roc starts out overstable. Its much harder to tell the slight differences b/t two overstable discs than two stable/straight discs. A stable disc is going to be straight or turn over, so a little difference in stability can be seen more in the flight. This is the only reason that the Buzz seems "more inconsistant" than the Roc. This is not really a fair comparison. Most people don't simply buy overstable discs and beat them stable because some molds that start out less stable fly/glide better. Are we to label all stable to understable discs unpredictable because molding variations affect their flight more dramatically?


A very valid point. You've helped me see that comparing the Roc and the Buzzz isn't really fair due to the intended difference in their stability.


A dx Roc is going to fly different after the first couple of decent hits. Is that consistant? How long can you keep a dx Roc "new" and overstable?


Given the amount of trees that I hit...not very long. ;)


Thanks for following up on my original post and furthering the discussion.


sleepy

Sleepy,

I throw Buzzzes a, lot and in my experience, every 1st-run flies the same as every other 1st-run, every FLX flies like every other FLX, and so on. For example, I recently did some wheeling and dealing to get another 1-run from a friend's collection. It is a dead ringer (flight path) for the one I have been throwing since they first came out. I may not have 50 Buzzes like someone mentioned earlier, but the only differences I have noticed seem to be when you switch plastics. The only exception is Z-plastic, but I think they re-tooled the mold after the 1st-runs so that's not too surprising...

Sleepy,

I throw Buzzzes a, lot and in my experience, every 1st-run flies the same as every other 1st-run, every FLX flies like every other FLX, and so on. For example, I recently did some wheeling and dealing to get another 1-run from a friend's collection. It is a dead ringer (flight path) for the one I have been throwing since they first came out. I may not have 50 Buzzes like someone mentioned earlier, but the only differences I have noticed seem to be when you switch plastics. The only exception is Z-plastic, but I think they re-tooled the mold after the 1st-runs so that's not too surprising...



totally agree... this is one of the reasons I throw the buzzz even though i'm in 'innova-land' I had a lot of guys around me lose a 'nicely beat in' roc and go nuts since it would be hard to replace... plus i couldnt consistently throw any rocs (i gave away a 10x when i first started because of this)... i switched to the buzzz and havent looked back since. Every cryztal buzzz I get flies just like the last one... i've only had 1 first run so i cant personally atest to the consistency but I can say that I gave it someone to replace one he lost and I think he found it to fly the same.

as far as ranking i agree w/ Scott Lewis in an earlier post (except I havent thrown the domey or midnight)



Overstable to Understable from what I've thrown:
Cryztal
1st run
Midnight
FLX
Z Flat Top
ESP
Z Domey
X
D

all i know is that i like all the buzzzs that i have and have thrown since i have switched. of course i have only thrown esp and z buzzzs but everyone is exactly the same as the next one as long as they are the same plastic, but the difference between the plastics isnt that great, i have seen much bigger differences in the runs of rocs that i have thrown over the years, from 9x,10x,11x,12x to dx they all were a little different or even in some cases very different, but they are discs so if you like them you should be able to adjust to the variations that these discs go through and each company has there own problems with consistency in these things, but such is life in a small sport
mj

Very very helpful thread. thanks guys..

Let's see, I love the First Run Z Buzzz, but cannot afford to throw it. Midnight is close but hard to find on a wooded course. ESP seems less overstable, but very close in my opinion. I picked up an FLX and have been tossing it. I find it less over stable then my ESP's. Could just be this one. I feel the "other" Z Runs are more overstable than the First Runs. I have not broken one out in a long time. I have several opaque "other" Z Runs that are very flat top, but say "buzzz" on the inside rim. They must be a close cousin to the First Runs! When the time comes, I will try these. Should be fun!

I'm just dreaming here, but wouldn't it be cool to have a Buzz that behaved a bit more overstable? One that could be put on a power hyzer and hold the line...I have a problem with getting a clean release with beaded discs, so I don't throw the Wasp. I love the feel of the Buzz, but even the meatiest of them fly flat if thrown hard. If I had an overstable Buzz I could put it in my bag next to the SS and the normal Buzz and be all set.

Hey Mike I was woundering if you thought the buzz ss was at all like a esp comet..... Mine is a little beat and thrown hyzer flip it flips flat and anhyzers the rest of the flight. Like the ss avenger but not as fast!

I'm just dreaming here, but wouldn't it be cool to have a Buzz that behaved a bit more overstable? One that could be put on a power hyzer and hold the line...I have a problem with getting a clean release with beaded discs, so I don't throw the Wasp. I love the feel of the Buzz, but even the meatiest of them fly flat if thrown hard. If I had an overstable Buzz I could put it in my bag next to the SS and the normal Buzz and be all set.



a squall might do the trick as long as its not beat.

I'm just dreaming here, but wouldn't it be cool to have a Buzz that behaved a bit more overstable? One that could be put on a power hyzer and hold the line...I have a problem with getting a clean release with beaded discs, so I don't throw the Wasp. I love the feel of the Buzz, but even the meatiest of them fly flat if thrown hard. If I had an overstable Buzz I could put it in my bag next to the SS and the normal Buzz and be all set.



a squall might do the trick as long as its not beat.



The Squall act's just like a KC cheetah for me

Hey Mike I was woundering if you thought the buzz ss was at all like a esp comet..... Mine is a little beat and thrown hyzer flip it flips flat and anhyzers the rest of the flight. Like the ss avenger but not as fast!



The Buzz ss starts out more high-speed stable than the Avenger and the Comet. The Comet requires the right speed and height to keep it stable, where the Buzz SS is a little more forgiving. It has more carry than a regular buzz and flies a bit faster (way faster than a Comet). When thrown really hard though, the Buzz SS does stay turning all the way through its flight, where a regular Buzz would stable out.

I just got 5 more Z SSs! Now I don't have to switch to a beat ESP for water holes! All of mine are red. Does anyone know if the Z Buzz SS has been produced in any other color?

i have a white one that is esp, barely thrown. i didn't know they were in z too. interested in a trade?

As with so many disc golf discussions, it seems like this one varies widely, so I will toss in my two cents too. I got my first Buzzz, a first run, many years ago, probably because I liked the stamp. Now, I own or have thrown most variations of the disc. (See display name?) So, for what it is worth, I put them like this. Mind you I throw pretty hard most of the time.
Over to Under
First Run
Z (probably tops when brand new)
X
ESP
Cryztal (very LSS,very HSUS)
FLX
SS
GT
Again, I try and throw 176+ weight discs, and the top three are nearly interchangeable when brand new. Perhaps because I throw them hard, the SS may not find a place in my bag, though if you have room for it, and not much wind, it is a great deal of fun to throw.
KP

I just got 5 more Z SSs! Now I don't have to switch to a beat ESP for water holes! All of mine are red. Does anyone know if the Z Buzz SS has been produced in any other color?



Sportdiscs.com just listed some CryZtal Z ones.