Can you play AM after taking cash if your rating is 944? :confused:

yes

I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed by allowing pro's to play am events. Can someone shed some light on this for me?

It seems with this allowance there isn't really a pro or am classification. You can freely play in pro or am events as long as your rating allows you to.

Does this also mean that an Am who accepts cash would still get a Worlds invite based on their Am points earned? Or are they considered a pro once they accepted the cash there by forfeiting their Am points an potential Am Worlds eligibility?

And that brings me to who Am Worlds points are considered for invitations. Are they accumulated for all Am events regardless of divisions? Or are the strictly division based?

I also understand that points are earned based on the number of players you beat in any given tournament within your division. Correct? But if you play the same tees and course as the other division you will not get points for those players you beat in those divisions? Why is that?

Needless to say I'm getting a bit :confused: on how this is working out.

"It seems with this allowance there isn't really a pro or am classification. You can freely play in pro or am events as long as your rating allows you to."

that sounds accurate as far as how it works in reality.

"Or are they considered a pro once they accepted the cash "
we consider them pro at that point. the problem, in my view, is that they arent really pro. not for taking $25. why should a guy who took $25 as a low rated pro be prevented from playing a division appropriate for his skill level? a lot of things dont make sense - heres another one: a lower rated player being banned from a division (because he took $25 a year ago) while a higher rated one can play no questions asked.

this division stuff does not address the Pro v. Am topic. its not rally intended for that. i agree that is a topic that should be addressed.

That is why I think that calling divisions Pro and Amatuer (que Pro v. Am discussions) a bad idea. I think that divisions should be just color coded or whatever with rating ranges for each. You play whatever division you fall in. The higher levels of play play for cash, the lower level play for mechandise.

I know the messageboard would then suffer a large lack of Pro v. Am arguements though so, it probably is not a good idea.

"Or are they considered a pro once they accepted the cash "
we consider them pro at that point. the problem, in my view, is that they arent really pro. not for taking $25. why should a guy who took $25 as a low rated pro be prevented from playing a division appropriate for his skill level? a lot of things dont make sense - heres another one: a lower rated player being banned from a division (because he took $25 a year ago) while a higher rated one can play no questions asked.





...because they made the choice OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL to take the $. choices in life often have consequences.

john, perhaps that is true, but a rigid policy like that drives players out of the sport. or at least out of the pdga. someone who is rated one point higher than the cutoff but who has taken cash at some point is forbidden from playing against higher rated players who just happened to have never taken cash. it doesnt make sense. does tiger skip playing the monthly mini at the local course because he's a pro and isnt allowed or because it simply isnt worth his time? the point is the Pro v. Am divide in its current form is pure (except for amnesty, etc) as far as "true" amateurism is concerned, but it makes for horrible membership retention policy. until we have a series of events to which you MUST qualify, we might as well abandon many of the current distinctions between the pro and am.

I think that we should start giving out participation ribbons to all that enter, so that some of the players don't feel like the underachievers that they are.

You'd have to play to get a ribbon, they're not for TD's. :D

I think that we should start giving out participation ribbons to all that enter, so that some of the players don't feel like the underachievers that they are.



i would also like a sucker, the ones with the loop on them that you get at the drs office, they always make me feel better /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Can anyone shed some light on the Worlds side of the questions and how the points are done?

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.



That's what I thought.

But how about the points and how do they determine the invites? And if an Am plays in a pro event are points earned only for the players he scores better than in the pro division or relative to all the Am divisions as well?

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.

unless you are an amnestee from the 2007 renewal cycle. in that case, its cool.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.

unless you are an amnestee from the 2007 renewal cycle. in that case, its cool.



That's incorrect.

Anyone that is registered with the PDGA as an amateur can play in amateur majors, provided they otherwise qualify (points, whatever). Whether or not the amateur has cashed in the past as a pro is irrelevant, if PDGA has granted amateur status back to the player.

Chap

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.

unless you are an amnestee from the 2007 renewal cycle. in that case, its cool.



That's incorrect.

Anyone that is registered with the PDGA as an amateur can play in amateur majors, provided they otherwise qualify (points, whatever). Whether or not the amateur has cashed in the past as a pro is irrelevant, if PDGA has granted amateur status back to the player.

Chap




So if you register as an AM to start the year, cash in pro, and continue to play AM because of your rating you can play Am worlds? I'm not sure about that Chap.

There is not way they would "otherwise qualify" if they have cashed and weren't a part of the amnesty.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



It all depends when you start playing in AM tournaments, the size of tournament, & the Tier of those tournaments.

Many players got enough points from Bowling Green AMs alone for Worlds due to the size of the field and it being an A-Tier.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.



And that brings me to my next point. If you move up and there are only 11 players in your division and you finish 4th you get points based on 7 players. When the next division down has 38 players that you beat. So for total Am points your screwed relative to the other players.

But as they say, "Whatayagonado?"

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.



And that brings me to my next point. If you move up and there are only 11 players in your division and you finish 4th you get points based on 7 players. When the next division down has 38 players that you beat. So for total Am points your screwed relative to the other players.

But as they say, "Whatayagonado?"



Pretty much which is why a lot of age protected players choose to play a non protected one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you are invited based on your division. So if you are a master you are invited according to the other players points in ADV master.

I think the amount of points used to be different for INT VS ADV but I'm not but 50% sure on that.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.



And that brings me to my next point. If you move up and there are only 11 players in your division and you finish 4th you get points based on 7 players. When the next division down has 38 players that you beat. So for total Am points your screwed relative to the other players.

But as they say, "Whatayagonado?"



Pretty much which is why a lot of age protected players choose to play a non protected one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you are invited based on your division. So if you are a master you are invited according to the other players points in ADV master.

I think the amount of points used to be different for INT VS ADV but I'm not but 50% sure on that.

you guys sure could take cash at a message board quoting tournament. :cool:

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.



And that brings me to my next point. If you move up and there are only 11 players in your division and you finish 4th you get points based on 7 players. When the next division down has 38 players that you beat. So for total Am points your screwed relative to the other players.

But as they say, "Whatayagonado?"



Pretty much which is why a lot of age protected players choose to play a non protected one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you are invited based on your division. So if you are a master you are invited according to the other players points in ADV master.

I think the amount of points used to be different for INT VS ADV but I'm not but 50% sure on that.

you guys sure could take cash at a message board quoting tournament. :cool:




Already have, I'm a Pro quoter.

Points are relative to the general division (Am/Pro) in which you are playing. Only Pro points count toward Pro worlds, Am points are not of any value to Pros.



Here is a more specific question for the points question. Player A is an Advanced player who scores better than 20 other Advanced players and 30 Int and 20 rec. Are the points based only on the 20 other Advanced players or all 70 Am's?



Just the people in the same division so the 20 other guys.



I guess that will make it tough for a player who is moving up in the Am divisions to earn enough points to qualify for an invite to Am Worlds the first year of playing then wouldn't it? At least relative to the other players who have played the same division all year.



No lets say you earn 500 points in INT and then move to ADV mid-year and earn 1000. You would end up having 1500 Am points which you would be judged to get an invite. You won't get the points for every AM you beat in an event but all the points you do earn count as long as it is from an Am division towards worlds.



And that brings me to my next point. If you move up and there are only 11 players in your division and you finish 4th you get points based on 7 players. When the next division down has 38 players that you beat. So for total Am points your screwed relative to the other players.

But as they say, "Whatayagonado?"



Pretty much which is why a lot of age protected players choose to play a non protected one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you are invited based on your division. So if you are a master you are invited according to the other players points in ADV master.

I think the amount of points used to be different for INT VS ADV but I'm not but 50% sure on that.

you guys sure could take cash at a message board quoting tournament. :cool:




Already have, I'm a Pro quoter.



Cash for Quotes, I'm in!!! :cool::D

Is this correct?:

An AM player gets a bunch of points in the INT division during a year then decides to move to ADV in the same year. For the next year's AM Worlds invite list, the player has enough points to get an invite as an INT player. When the player registers for Worlds, he may sign up as an ADV player, even though most of his points came as a result of his INT division tournament play.

Correct?

Yes. You have Am points and Pro points. There is no distinction between Adv, Int, Rec, Novice points.

No points for Enthusiasts :D

And there are no Intermediate divisions at Worlds.

If you accept cash you can't play in any majors as an Am, which includes worlds.

unless you are an amnestee from the 2007 renewal cycle. in that case, its cool.



That's incorrect.

Anyone that is registered with the PDGA as an amateur can play in amateur majors, provided they otherwise qualify (points, whatever). Whether or not the amateur has cashed in the past as a pro is irrelevant, if PDGA has granted amateur status back to the player.

Chap




So if you register as an AM to start the year, cash in pro, and continue to play AM because of your rating you can play Am worlds? I'm not sure about that Chap.

There is not way they would "otherwise qualify" if they have cashed and weren't a part of the amnesty.



I didn't say that. You are confusing the issue with irrelevant information. The amnesty last year is really ireelevant to the issue, other than it gave several players their amateur status back.

If you cash during the year, your status with PDGA is changed to PRO, not as an am. No pro is ever eligible for amateur majors.

If you petitioned PDGA for amateur status subsequent to cashing, and it was granted, then you WOULD be eligible for amateur majors, since your status with PDGA is AMATEUR.

If you ever take cash in a PDGA event, you lose your amateur status. You must then petition the PDGA Tour Manager if you wish to get it back.

Chap

To answer youn point question..

There are different point factors for different divisions as well as the Tier of the tournament.

They go Major/NT-A/B/C

Advanced 15 10 7.5 5
Intermediate 12 8 6 4
Recreational 9 6 4.5 3
Novice 850 6 4 3 2

So, if there is a BIG field in a lower division and you are playing in a higher division with less people yes, they can earn more points.

To answer youn point question..

There are different point factors for different divisions as well as the Tier of the tournament.

They go Major/NT-A/B/C

Advanced 15 10 7.5 5
Intermediate 12 8 6 4
Recreational 9 6 4.5 3
Novice 850 6 4 3 2

So, if there is a BIG field in a lower division and you are playing in a higher division with less people yes, they can earn more points.




I'm sure there are no points at Majors and there is no such thing as an NT for AMs since they would be classified as an A-tier if they played the same weekend as a Pro NT so I think the 1st column can be taken out.

In 2008, you now get points for Majors...

Yeah, I copied that directly from the 2008 Tour Standards page. ;)

scoot_er wrong? Unprecedented! :p

scoot_er wrong? Unprecedented! :p



I haven't read the new points system thing sorry. :p

I actually think that is a good idea .

Anyway...

So, if you are looking for the best way to get enough points for Worlds it is to play in the largest tournaments that you can. They are going to have the largest fields and give you the most points.

I missed my chance as they are here in Michigan. I had a great start with 600+ at Bowling Green, but a family emergency sprung up on me and I did not play near all the tournaments that I had planned on playing and the tournaments that I did play in my mind was elsewhere. Oh well, that is what wait lists are for right? I have 2 hotel rooms at least! LOL

I think the whole points thing is a stupid way to get invited. Heck you can just play good at BG and get invited which is stupid.

The rest of the players from my club did! LOL

The field was huge though and it was 4 rounds of play. It is just the math...

I will hopefully get in, if not I will be volunteering, caddying, & watching. :)

hey if i wanted to go pro i could register as an am ,save some cash, play a pro event well and get paid to go pro

hey if i wanted to go pro i could register as an am ,save some cash, play a pro event well and get paid to go pro



Yea that is the smart way to go about it.

I don't believe Am Worlds has ever filled. Even if you dont get an outright invitation, the PDGA has changed the way Worlds invites are handled beyond that...basically opening it up to anyone....no waitlists or tiers of qualification anymore. Check out the link on the home page...explains it all. :cool: