Gateway Disc Sports recently submitted the Magic and Assassin for PDGA testing. Both discs passed all PDGA tests, so I've added them to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached). These discs are now permitted in PDGA competitions, although formal certification will be made by the Board of Directors at their next meeting. Test measurements are listed below.



Assassin
Certification No. 08-2
Outside diameter: 21.0 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.2 cm
Height: 1.9 cm
Rim depth: 1.1 cm
Rim thickness: 1.9 cm
Flight plate thickness: 0.2 cm
Flight plate to rim plane distance: 1.7 cm
Flexibility rating: 10.77 kg
Rim configuration rating: 34.50
Maximum weight allowed: 174.3 g

Can you post some pics of the disc please?

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1732

David. can you post the test-results for the magic also?

I will have start a thread for the Magic once the assassins are shipped and in the stores.

We sent out the 1st wave of assassin samples with the ice bowl stamp to our larger customers. There is no engraving on the back of these discs and I'm hearing about people who didn't realize what it was.
The 2nd shipment all had the assassin stamp , but both discs are from the same run.

We have had a great response already from those who have test flown them and feel its a great addition to the Gateway line-up.
Hopefully those who have received the Assassins with the ice bowl stamp will test throw them and not think its some sort of collectors disc!

i cant wait for mine to come in

i cant wait for mine to come in



Me too because I called the shop almost two weeks ago.

Dave, you have mail.

I'm dont think many discs went out to the sponsored players unless they are also selling discs for us!
Justin was on a little vacation and will be back in tomorrow to start shipping the Assassin's out to auto ship customers.
*
We may try and run the Magic in the morning and send one out with each assassin order and should be ready for release the 1st week of February!

Sponsored players should have gotten their 2008 contracts in an email last week, if not please email me with your current address.
After you get your contract, you should send your list of discs needed for the 2008 season in an email to [email protected]

I know MH you sent your list over already, I saw it on the counter, so it will be going out by Tuesday. :cool::cool:

I'm dont think many discs went out to the sponsored players unless they are also selling discs for us!
Justin was on a little vacation and will be back in tomorrow to start shipping the Assassin's out to auto ship customers.
*
We may try and run the Magic in the morning and send one out with each assassin order and should be ready for release the 1st week of February!

Sponsored players should have gotten their 2008 contracts in an email last week, if not please email me with your current address.
After you get your contract, you should send your list of discs needed for the 2008 season in an email to [email protected]

I know MH you sent your list over already, I saw it on the counter, so it will be going out by Tuesday. :cool::cool:



Add diablos if I forgot to ask for them since that is what I really need. :D

I'll send you an E-mail because I didn't get the contract.

Thanks David!

THANKS DAVE!!! The initial throws seem encouraging. I can't wait for our auto-ship.

Ordered mine from Sun King last night so hopefully it'll be here soon.

Got an Ice Bowl stamped Assassin in the mail today from a trade. So, I took it right out to the practice field. The disc feels great in the hand and the plastic is nice too. It does feel similar to a TL in the hand, maybe even Pro Starfire'ish.

This disc has great speed and glide. This is one of the "glidiest" disc's I have thrown. It can be thrown dead straight at 75%. If you really get on it, it will turn over a bit and glide forever, with a slight late fade. This disc will fit right in between a Sabre and a Blurr/Illusion.

All you have to do is pull the trigger and this disc goes right where you want it too(Disclaimer...within reason, you are not going to ace every time you throw this disc) ;)

I'm glad that I get stuff shipped UPS the next day because if they are shipped out Wed to AS customers, I'll have mine on Thursday - just in time for the Ice Bowl tournament on Saturday!

The sample was sweet, already stirring up interest in our area!

Any more reviews? Especially as a roller.

I just got a few from a trade at PIAS. I'm impressed. From the description Dave Mac gave I thought I would flip the ba-jeeze out of it. Nope. Its has a slight HS turn and a much stronger finish than expected. It flies like a longer star ontario roc for those who have thrown them. It does have a ton of glide. it came out of a turn when others would be on the ground. These were goimg about the same distance as my Teebirds, about 400. not the same wind fighting ability at all. I was disappointed in tis rolling ability. Turned topside fast. I would feel much better about it if it was in a better plastic.

I give it an 8/10

Whem anyone else gets a chance to throw them, do you notice differences in flight by color?

I got a yellow, orange, and red. The red one is definatley less stable. The orange and yellow are the same.

The red is less stable. The red has more of a high flex feel and you can flip it easier. If you are looking for the roller, keep the throw lower. If you throw it too high it will try to come out of the turn.

Dgdave,
I have been using one for about 5 rounds, thrown rollers hit tree's< spike hyzers,, etc.. I haven't seen a change in flight and the grip is awesome even in cold weather.

what about the plastic do you think could be improved?

I'm just not the biggest fan of the E/H blend or SRP type plastic. I had diablos in my bag but had to rotate the. so much due to the plastic not holding the flight or chuncking up. I haven't used the Assassin on the course yet, but they've held up fine in the field.

I would love to see Diablos and The Assassin in a more traditional E plastic or even S, or if possible, some Nike type or urathane plastic. I'm sure a lot of people would pay a premium to get those.

The problem with Diablo DT's is not so much the plastic as it is the edge of the disc. The edge is so sharp that as soon as you knick the edge or nail a tree the flight changes dramatically. I don't care what manufacturer's plastic you use this would happen with any plastic. A broader rim edge would fix this problem but you would lose the speed of the disc.
As for myself, I am a fan of the grippier flex plastic.

i dont think so.

"I don't care what manufacturer's plastic you use this would happen with any plastic"

well, i have the diablo in flx plastic also and it's not even close to the same problem as with the srp plastic. it doesn't happen with any plastic or the flx plastic wouldn't last longer, but it does.

Dave,
Good feedback and reviews on the Assassin so far! Let me know when you've got the next shipment in as we're going through the first load rather fast.

at first i didn't like the Diablo DT's in the hi-flex plastic, but the more i started throwing them the more i liked it. I find it to be rather duarable, i've hit alot of tree's with it, plus hand tuned it and it still flies great, nice and flat with a hyzer finish.

TK

I agree about the high flex. DGDave was talking about how he didn't like how fast the discs tend to change flight characteristics. My response was that it is not so much the plastic as it is the edge of the disc. The high flex is better at not changing flight characteristics as fast as the E or S plastics, but it will still change faster than most discs with a thicker rim edge.

Gateway Disc Sports recently submitted the Magic and Assassin for PDGA testing. Both discs passed all PDGA tests, so I've added them to the list of PDGA-approved discs (attached). These discs are now permitted in PDGA competitions, although formal certification will be made by the Board of Directors at their next meeting. Test measurements are listed below.



Assassin
Certification No. 08-2
Outside diameter: 21.0 cm
Inside rim diameter: 17.2 cm
Height: 1.9 cm
Rim depth: 1.1 cm
Rim thickness: 1.9 cm
Flight plate thickness: 0.2 cm
Flight plate to rim plane distance: 1.7 cm
Flexibility rating: 10.77 kg
Rim configuration rating: 34.50
Maximum weight allowed: 174.3 g



I'm a little confused about these specs with respect to the new wing restrictions. If the outstide diameter is 21.0 and the inside rim diameter is 17.2, wouldn't that make the wing illegal at 2.8cm? I thought that 2.6cm was the maximum allowed. The part that is most confusing is that no one has even commented on how wide the wing is on this new disc. Clarity anyone?

Rim is on both sides across the diameter, right?
(21.0-17.2)/2 = 1.9 (shown as Rim Thickness), not 2.8.

Wing is between that of a Pro Starfire and a TL. It is a very comfortable disc.

Rim is on both sides across the diameter, right?
(21.0-17.2)/2 = 1.9 (shown as Rim Thickness), not 2.8.



I see now. Thanks!

I have some coming in the mail but would like to know how the assassin compares to the inferno?

From my limited expirence with the inferno, I would say this is much more controlable and comes out of a turn. I never got the hang of the inferno, but I'm really liking the Assassin so far.

Closer to what dgdave said. The Inferno was a great disc with great glide. The Assassin is easier to throw, slightly slower, and has way more glide. It is not as flippy as the Inferno.

Assassin is much more controlable and ends on a stronger hyzer.. The assassin is $$$$.. Never could really predict the inferno and the assassin is right on point...Great addition to the Gateway line up

It does seem to have the Inferno type glide late in the flight. ( due to surface technology on the wing)
Its like it kicks into 3rd gear once your on the Highway

I agree... One of the glidest (made up word) discs I have ever thrown... It stays in the air longer than most discs and you can get big D without having to throw with alot of power... I have been putting them on big anhyzers flat and just snapping them hard. They have a great anhzer line with a strong finsh on a hyzer. No where near as flippy as an inferno... Hope that helps

It sounds liek the assassin could help lighten my bag. can't wait to get my hands on these.

glidest


Hey...you stole that word from me TJ ;)

I have to agree with what everybody has stated so far. This disc is truly amazing in the fact that it doesn't feel like it should fly as far as it does. The disc feels like a fairway driver, but has the distance of say a Beast, Crush or Illusion. It is a very easy disc to throw. Would still love to try this disc in "S". Maybe even glow "S".

You guys have me curious [and I throw all innova discs]! I would love to try this disc.
Question: How does the weight of the Assassin effect it's flight and reliability? I usually throw max weight discs, should I [if I buy one] stick with max weight, or will a lighter Assassin fly the same as a max weight? If you've thrown the Destroyer, you know what I mean. A lighter Destroyer will fly just like a heavier Destroyer, not much difference and a lighter disc is not likely to flip more than a heavy one.

ive thrown 176 down to 170. They are pretty much the same. The red ones seem less HSS than the yellow and oranges

I prefer to throw the max weight in these drivers, mainly because they will maintain momentum longer than the lighter disc and will not be as likely to flip. They have a HSS between a Wraith and a Beast and LSS similar to a Viking or Orc. The distance would be closer to the Destroyer. That is if you are throwing Innova.

I got my Assassin today, but it arrived too late by UPS to throw, but I have a question on the molding. I compared the disc to a T-Bone, and it seems to be a non-dimpled T-Bone so is this what the disc is supposed to be? Also, is this made from SRP instead of actual E plastic?

I prefer to throw the max weight in these drivers, mainly because they will maintain momentum longer than the lighter disc and will not be as likely to flip. They have a HSS between a Wraith and a Beast and LSS similar to a Viking or Orc. The distance would be closer to the Destroyer. That is if you are throwing Innova.



Be careful when comparing a disc with a 1.9 cm wing to the Destroyer. I haven't had a chance to check out the Assassin yet, but the specs sure make it look like an apple, and the destroyer is definetely an orange. Anyway, I'll bet that you have to throw the Destroyer a lot harder to get the same line that the Assassin flies on, and in the process its going to go farther. Physics of the massive wide wing and gyroscopic effect tell me this much.

I got my assassin from MarshallStreet today. Cant wait to throw it.. it feels great in my hand and the plastic is like an advanced e-line (whatever that means :)). To me it looks like a teebird on the clear.. a little sleeker, a little wider wing. maybe pinpoint line accuracy with some D on it.

Guess well see in about three hours. : )

I finally got to throw the Assassin today, and does this thing fly!!! It has already replaced my Sabre as my "go to" driver, and it's competing with the Inferno and Diablo DT for my distance disc. The disc was coming up about 30-40 ft. shorter than my Inferno's and Diablo's but maybe with some more work, and warmer weather we will see. I definitely need to get around to ordering some more since I only have one. This is definitely one of Gateway's best discs ever! Thanks so much, David!!!

I was easily over throwing my Diablo's by 20-30 feet when I first threw them with Dave. a few days later trying some downhill shots I obliterated the distance that I was getting with my Diablos. I was getting about 75-100 feet of extra D playing downhill.

I agree with Smokey.. Getting way more D with the assassin's....Plus the assassin holds a better anhyzer line than the diablo...I was putting the assassin on a big anhyzer line around trees and getting close to 350'-400' without putting alot on it....

I got my assassin from MarshallStreet today. Cant wait to throw it.. it feels great in my hand and the plastic is like an advanced e-line (whatever that means :)). To me it looks like a teebird on the clear.. a little sleeker, a little wider wing. maybe pinpoint line accuracy with some D on it.

Guess well see in about three hours. : )



this thing, new out of the box, is DEFINITELY like a teebird on the clear. at 80% it goes straight as an arrow with very little fade and has exactly what the stamp says, pinpoint accuracy. It also gave me noticable distance on my shots versus other discs thrown in the same positions.

I ordered three more after one round of throws.

thanks Gateway

[/QUOTE]Be careful when comparing a disc with a 1.9 cm wing to the Destroyer. I haven't had a chance to check out the Assassin yet, but the specs sure make it look like an apple, and the destroyer is definetely an orange. Anyway, I'll bet that you have to throw the Destroyer a lot harder to get the same line that the Assassin flies on, and in the process its going to go farther. Physics of the massive wide wing and gyroscopic effect tell me this much.

[/QUOTE]

I was talking about the D that people are talking about getting with the Destroyer. Yes, they are two different discs in stability terms, but they have similar D when compared on a whole. The Destroyer is more stable and fast, The Assassin is slower with way more glide and less stability. These features combine to give that similar D!

Be careful when comparing a disc with a 1.9 cm wing to the Destroyer. I haven't had a chance to check out the Assassin yet, but the specs sure make it look like an apple, and the destroyer is definetely an orange. Anyway, I'll bet that you have to throw the Destroyer a lot harder to get the same line that the Assassin flies on, and in the process its going to go farther. Physics of the massive wide wing and gyroscopic effect tell me this much.

[/QUOTE]

I was talking about the D that people are talking about getting with the Destroyer. Yes, they are two different discs in stability terms, but they have similar D when compared on a whole. The Destroyer is more stable and fast, The Assassin is slower with way more glide and less stability. These features combine to give that similar D!

[/QUOTE]

I think you mean to say that gyroscopicness allows it to stay spinning longer...which may or may not mean fly farther. For those with the revolutions and armspeed wider generally means farther, but for people with less rotation, late flight glide is a more important factor.

I can throw both my Inferno and Sabre 400', but the lines are completely different. You can also manipulate stability with reverse. While I consider a Sabre longer than Firebird, I'll bet most could get more distance with a severe anhyzer shot with the Firebird. Does that make it a longer flyer? That time maybe, but not as a rule of thumb.

Thats a great point Dreddy and something new players should pick up on.
Unfortunately for a lot of the new players, easy to control discs like, cheetahs and gazelles get overlooked when choosing your first long straight driver.
These discs would easily be most newer players longest straightest drivers, but its not cool to buy a 10 year old model. Which is why we plan on making NEW discs of this speed and wing length that will help the next generation of players get off on the right foot.
While the Assassin is still a fairly fast disc with a medium wing length, its just the first of many new discs that will be designed to get the most out of slower velocities and rotations.
The surface technology on the top 1" and under camber of the wing plays a big factor in the Glide and stability on deceleration.


On a somewhat related topic;
I keep hearing how the wider rimmed discs could be ruining the game and out dating courses, blah,,blah,,,, Blah.
The facts are wide rimmed discs are PRO discs and should be used only when necessary, by those with enough power to control them.
If there is such grave concern about wide rimmed discs, maybe those that think this, should make MORE NEW shorter wing discs and spend money educating and marketing the need to use these types of discs, to those that are just learning to play!

Oh I have been fan gripping the Assassins for tunnel and low ceiling shots with amazing results. The control and fade of the E-A's are about the same whether its for 280 or 380, which make it very useful all over the course.

there was actually a guy this weekend throwing side arm layups with it from 80-150 and it seemed to work out really well ( though I wold advise using a backhand for this unless your stance is restricted)

Be careful when comparing a disc with a 1.9 cm wing to the Destroyer. I haven't had a chance to check out the Assassin yet, but the specs sure make it look like an apple, and the destroyer is definetely an orange. Anyway, I'll bet that you have to throw the Destroyer a lot harder to get the same line that the Assassin flies on, and in the process its going to go farther. Physics of the massive wide wing and gyroscopic effect tell me this much.



I was talking about the D that people are talking about getting with the Destroyer. Yes, they are two different discs in stability terms, but they have similar D when compared on a whole. The Destroyer is more stable and fast, The Assassin is slower with way more glide and less stability. These features combine to give that similar D!

[/QUOTE]

I think you mean to say that gyroscopicness allows it to stay spinning longer...which may or may not mean fly farther. For those with the revolutions and armspeed wider generally means farther, but for people with less rotation, late flight glide is a more important factor.

I can throw both my Inferno and Sabre 400', but the lines are completely different. You can also manipulate stability with reverse. While I consider a Sabre longer than Firebird, I'll bet most could get more distance with a severe anhyzer shot with the Firebird. Does that make it a longer flyer? That time maybe, but not as a rule of thumb.

[/QUOTE]



I agree with Chris. I just got done field testing my assassin. I took out an S and E saber and E blaze along with the Assassin. Because the disc is faster than all three of these. It did go further but with a golf shot! Not some Crazy Anhyzer roller release with an overstable disc.

I throw hyzer flip so for me the disc is a perfect extension of my saber throws. It stood up flat and went about 60 ft further than my sabers. Accuracy was awsome. I will put it in my practice bag for now and see how it does.

Great Disc Dave!

I agree with CB and DM. The thing I was trying to state was that, based on a normal throw, not a hyzer flip with an understable disc or big anhyzer S with a super fast overstable disc, you will get more D based on a normal flat shot due to the exceptional glide of the disc.

Took mine to the course today. We have hole here that is 350 up hill Anhyzer. Its a tough hole to deuce unless you can throw great rollers. I brought the assassin just for this hole, wanted to see if it would flip late and stay over at the end of the flight. It worked great, gave me a 10ft putt. I may not be beating up spirits anymore for that shot.

how does it compare to a dx teebird? is the rim wider than the teebird?

Almost the same wing as a TeeBird.

With a notch, or more flat like a TL?

With a notch, or more flat like a TL?



It's got a slight bit on concavity on the wing, so it fits right in between the TeeBird and the TL.

how does it compare to a dx teebird? is the rim wider than the teebird?




this thing, new out of the box, is DEFINITELY like a teebird on the clear. at 80% it goes straight as an arrow with very little fade and has exactly what the stamp says, pinpoint accuracy

It is close to a TL or a 10x Teebird. It is accurate at high speed and has a ton of glide. Not Flippy, but can be hyzer flipped.

And... it can be thrown lower than the Sabre, which will make a lot of people happy.

Well, you guys have convinced me I should give this disc a shot. I won't be able to throw them for awhile (Broken leg, and it's very winter here right now). But I'll have them and be ready to see what they are like when it's time.

PS. I did order a couple more CH Teebirds while I was at it ... just in case the Assassin doesn't feel like killing it.

All you need to know about the Assassin is that you need one! No questions asked, just buy it. You won't be disappointed.

I'm really liking the Assassin, but the last 3 times I've played its came out 0 times. Its been 20+ mph winds every time. I've loved it in the field though

I can not wait to get my hands on one! hope i get them soon!

I'm hoping to take it out on the course tomorrow, if its not too terribly cold and windy. I really want to finally see if it will improve my game, and start making those tight fairways obsolote.

Hey Son of Dude...the assassin should help you a great deal at Kieriakas.

Hey Son of Dude...the assassin should help you a great deal at Kieriakas.



I took mine out again today. This time on a slight down 410ft hill hole. OB left and right + a long narrow strip of OB down the center. I dump a hyzer off the tee pitch up and take a three and move on. I took the assassin on a hyzer flip line str8 down the center. Man that thing help the line over the OB strip and faded out hyzer at the end. It left me 40ft or so short! I LOVE THIS DISC! A couple more weeks of testing and I may end up in the Bag!

are these as stable when new as a new dx teebird of the same weight?

Hey Son of Dude...the assassin should help you a great deal at Kieriakas.



The holes I'm really wanting to test it on are 2, 6, 7, 12, and 15. Although 7's a big anhyzer drive the others are long tunnel shots so with the accuracy of the disc and its supreme glide I might finally be able to park the holes or at least set myself up for easier deuces.

Holes 2 (long pads) and 5 are the only ones I havent birdied on the course, but lets hope I can at least birdie 2 tomorrow. 5 is gonna have to be lucky.

They are slightly less HSS than the Teebird.

I can't wait to get mine, sounds like my kind of disc.

How soon can we expect more, from what i understand they don't have anymore right now :(

TK

are these as stable when new as a new dx teebird of the same weight?



Just get one and throw it! If you don't like it i will buy it off you or trade you something for it :cool:

Likewise. If you purchase an Assassin and you end up not liking it, give me a hollar and I will see what I can send you for a trade. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you will like the disc.

fair enough. but how does the flight of a new one compare to a new dx tee?

fair enough. but how does the flight of a new one compare to a new dx tee?


I would say that it is somewhat similar to a new dx tee with a small caviate, that being the assassin stays on the straight line a bit longer than the tee does and has a slight bit more fade at the end. It is not really a huge difference though. If you are an avid Tee thrower, you will appreciate this disc. I used to be a huge teebird fan before I went all Gateway and it was the disc I missed the most in my bag since then. I tried to muscle a Sabre for those shots, but it just wasn't the same. With the Assassin coming out, it fills the spot that I used to carry Teebirds for.

fair enough. but how does the flight of a new one compare to a new dx tee?


I would say that it is somewhat similar to a new dx tee with a small caviate, that being the assassin stays on the straight line a bit longer than the tee does and has a slight bit more fade at the end. It is not really a huge difference though. If you are an avid Tee thrower, you will appreciate this disc. I used to be a huge teebird fan before I went all Gateway and it was the disc I missed the most in my bag since then. I tried to muscle a Sabre for those shots, but it just wasn't the same. With the Assassin coming out, it fills the spot that I used to carry Teebirds for.



I completely agree, I was missing my trackers all year. Not any more!

I find it has less fade than the TeeBird. It flies longer yes, but if I try to throw it hyzer the whole way it will flip up and go straight. A TeeBird would hold it the whole time, so I use my S Blaze for hyzer and fade shots, but the Assassin is for everything else.

The TeeBird is 0 Turn, 2 Fade. I think the Assassin in -1 Turn, 1 Fade.

I find it has less fade than the TeeBird. It flies longer yes, but if I try to throw it hyzer the whole way it will flip up and go straight. A TeeBird would hold it the whole time, so I use my S Blaze for hyzer and fade shots, but the Assassin is for everything else.


The TeeBird is 0 Turn, 2 Fade. I think the Assassin in -1 Turn, 1 Fade.



More Hyzer ;)

I agree, I say more like HSS= -1, LSS= 2

I ordered 30 from Justin for all different skilled players. I have 10- (under 150g.) for the junior and womens players, 10-(150-160g.) for recreational players and those with less power & 10-(160-175) for Advanced to Pro players.

Its a shame more players don't try lighter drivers.
I have test flown discs for decades, discs in the mid-160's fly the farthest most of the time.
If you have good technique and strength, max weight are more predictable, but most players really don't have both and should throw lighter weight drivers to get more distance when they need it.

Well on that note...

I like to throw drivers that are around 168, but know what? They are VERY hard to come by. I was able to get 2 168 Assassins however. Because everyone wants the heavy ones, the lighter ones are a lot harder to find!

Its a shame more players don't try lighter drivers.
I have test flown discs for decades, discs in the mid-160's fly the farthest most of the time.
If you have good technique and strength, max weight are more predictable, but most players really don't have both and should throw lighter weight drivers to get more distance when they need it.



On that same token I think that its a shame more people do not throw understable drivers. Too many people throw stable distance drivers flat and depend on their power to get an S flight. This is fine out in the open, but on more demanding fairways you need something that you don't have to put so much on to get it to fly correctly.

That's very true! I see so many new players on the course throwing Wraith's, Destroyers, TeeRex's, etc. simply because their more experienced buddies throw them. It's like they think Sidewinders, TL's, Sabres, etc. are wuss discs and not for real men. They are hurting their game so much simply because they want to keep up a manly image. Amazing how gender stereotypes really can affect the players.

Well on that note...

I like to throw drivers that are around 168, but know what? They are VERY hard to come by. I was able to get 2 168 Assassins however. Because everyone wants the heavy ones, the lighter ones are a lot harder to find!



I was going to say something similar. I like drivers in the 165-169 range (I've got some sweet 165 Sabres I wouldn't trade for anything), but trying to find lighter weight discs like that is a pain, especially if I'm not ordering them from the company (like I do gateway) or picking them out from a big store (Like I do at DGW).
I'll be picking up some assassins either at our Ice Bowl (If Rick has any) or ordering some next week, and I'll be looking for 167-169 most likely.

This is so TRUE. I do like to carry the Wraith, and Destroyer, but I have started throwing a Beast a lot more these days. It's easier to throw, and still very predictable. I was throwing Orcs a lot before the Wraith and Destroyer, and I still throw them, but discs like the Orc/Wraith/Destroyer require a lot more power and are not the best choice for a LOT of players.
I've also tried throwing lighter weight discs, and had some success with them. However, I don't have them dialed enough to use in tournament situations. I find I tend to overpower shots during a tournament round, and often flip discs that I can't seem to flip during practice or casual rounds. Tourneys get me fired up, and I've yet to learn how to hold back some power when in those situations. It's an experience thing, I know.

Sorry for the thread drift ... and I don't throw Gateway. It's just too hard for me to find the discs I want living here in CO. I've found that ordering Gateway discs online is just to unpredictable ... I never know what I'm going to get.

And on that subject, I would like to see more colors available for Gateway discs. When I do visit an online retailer, their color choices are VERY limited.
We get a TON of snow here in CO, and I can't throw any light or white discs in the winter.

I totally agree. I have worked with people out here to get them to throw the correct weight for the shot they need in their bag. I know it is hard to get light weights from Gateway because most players buying from them don't throw discs under 165g. Some of my longest drives were 150 class drivers going downwind.

My drivers that I carry are all between 169-171 except my E-Illusion. But the E-Illusion is tough to get in that weight range. I would love a 170g puffy winged E-Illusion

One disc in the Gateway lineup that flies surprisingly sweet, is the E-Hybrid in lighter weights. I was throwing a 164g E-Hybrid this past fall and it was great for super straight shots that needed a slight fade at the end. That one now rests in the pond at Pickard.

I got my assassins today. I went out to the field in front of my house and threw them with, against, and across the wind. I really liked the glide and had one of them that I threw with a little AH almost flip to a roller but it held on. I really look forward to trying it on the course.

Went out today an tried mine for the first time..........MONEY.

I threw this thing at like 50 times. Has a great an easy feeling. I would say the feel is like a longer winged T-bone with a sabre's flight but with the glide of the Tizle.

I was missing a disc between my element/Sabre and my blurr/spirit. I feel as of right now that this disc is what i needed.

A few people posted that it had a t-birdish feel........ I think it is just like the old sabre/apache that david made back in 2000-2001. With that shape and this newish type E plastis, Im in LOVE.

THANKS MAC

Chris Schmidt
TEAM GDS
TEAM LONG TEE
GATEWAY WORKS FOR ME!!!

I finally threw one of these today. Winds were in the 15 mph range, but was able to use it for a variety of shots. I was playing into a r-l cross/headwind today, and wanted to see how well it flew. Thrown low with hyzer, it flipped up but didn't flip over, and only gained altitude towards the end of it's flight when the wing was starting to pop up. I also threw some 320 ft hyzer shots with a great deal of success and accuracy, and put one on a little anny line with 70% power and watched it flex out nicely.

It takes very little effort to get this thing going, it's got good glide, and I love the fade at the end of the flight. I'll be interested to see how it breaks in (and whether it loses high or low speed stability), but it will be in the bag for a little more time.

How are you guys getting your Assassins to hold hyzer lines? I try and it flips up, unless I throw it gently, but full drives it's going to turn and fade out. If I throw it slow there wont be much distance out of it.

It sounds like you might have a bit of OAT possibly. Or it also might be a case of power versus spin.


Hey Dr. Schmidt, how are things in the great white north?

How are you guys getting your Assassins to hold hyzer lines? I try and it flips up, unless I throw it gently, but full drives it's going to turn and fade out. If I throw it slow there wont be much distance out of it.



How far are you trying to throw it?

Do you have your thumb over the flight plate or on the rim?

More hyzer! ;)

I don't use the Assassin as a hyzer disc.

It sounds like you might have a bit of OAT possibly. Or it also might be a case of power versus spin.


Hey Dr. Schmidt, how are things in the great white north?



OAT??

He is referring to Off-Axis Torque...





It sounds like you might have a bit of OAT possibly. Or it also might be a case of power versus spin.


Hey Dr. Schmidt, how are things in the great white north?



OAT??

Could be. I havent played in a month so I know my form is off.

COLDDDDDDDD

Please don't refer to this disc as "T-Bird" like. It is more like a Valkyrie, Elite X Wildcat, or a JLS.

It has a high degree of use. Just don�t expect great results into a head-wind. It is potentially a great driver in calm conditions and down-wind.

I just don�t want Gateway fans getting a bad taste for this disc, because it was compared to something that it is not at all like.

yea--less HSS than the teebird. not nearly as straight a flight path as the teebird, and longer than the tee.

I find it to be very close to my beat in 10x KC Teebirds, but nothing close to a new Teebird

For myself this thing (red 168) is like my star wraiths (166-169). It has a very similar flight and distance, may be with a little less effort and perhaps a little less nose angle sensitive.

Wow, mine is nothing like a wraith. Way easier to flip flat with 70% power. The HSS reminds me of something between a leopard and a TL (it doesn't flip over from hyzer yet, but we'll see how it breaks in), with Teebird fade at the end.

Think I may have to pick one up.

Dana you coming to buck horn this year?

nope. too far of a drive from IL. i wish i was though! buckhorn is such a challenging course. i might make it over for the pro crosstown..we shall see. good luck this year!


btw, you are my pick to click to win the basket in the ring of fire!

nope. too far of a drive from IL. i wish i was though! buckhorn is such a challenging course. i might make it over for the pro crosstown..we shall see. good luck this year!

Thanks man! a threepeat is always great even if its just a ring of fire! See you @ the crosstown. Good luck as well!


btw, you are my pick to click to win the basket in the ring of fire!

I forgot, the assassins are great discs if you want control and accuracy. If you remember hole one @ buckhorn from the long tee, or hole 17 over the nasty pond water from the short tee. This disc will fly like a frozen rope on a str8 line perfect for those kind of shots.

I got my Assassins in late last week and haven't had as much time as I would like with them, but here are some preliminary thoughts:

I should probably preface that I'm not a big-arm player -- the farthest I can get any disc to go is a little over 400' over flat ground on a great rip. Average distance is ~ 350', but I can throw that both forehand and backhand with the same distance and consistency.

I've been throwing four Assassins at different weights -- orange 168, orange 173, pink 176, pink 179 -- and have had a couple of friends (Pro ~980, big-arm Am ~940) try them out. And so far, if I were going to give a quick summary, I'd say the Assassins are like 11x KC-Teebirds 10 grams lighter (ie 173 Assassin = 163 Teebird). That's the quickest blanket generalization I could make, but doesn't capture the nuances of the disc, or the detailed differences between it and other plastic.

The 173g Orange and 179 Pink Assassins are my favorites right now. The 173 feels the most teebird-like, and goes on a slight S, popping up from a hyzer release for a slight, almost straight, anhyzer for the first 70% of its distance, then gently fading back hyzer. Pretty easy flat, low, staight line distance of about 330-350'.

The 168 I'm having a problem with turning anhyzer too hard, too fast and becoming a cut-roller, but it works well up and down hills.

The 176 pink is like the 173, just a little shorter, and the 179 pink is a different disc altogether. The 179, thrown slow, forehand or backhand, holds a nice hyzer, similar to a teebird. Thrown with enough power, it has enough mass and stability to go farther over flat ground than the others. My big-arm am friend popped it out on a high anhyzer, and it landed ~430' away, still flying anhyzer. If it had come out of its anny, there is no telling how far it would have gone.

The most noticeable place these aren't like teebirds is that, for me, teebirds fly dead-straight, with a slight hyzer at the end. The Assassins end up in the same place as a teebird, but take a slightly different line to get there. There is a little more of a natural S to the assassin flight line, which can be good or bad, depending on the type of hole you are throwing.

Unfortunately, I haven't had any wind here yet, so I haven't had a chance to test how these fly with or against the wind... I will be trying as soon as I can and posting up further thoughts.

The other thing I've noticed about these discs is -- because of the glide -- how much "free" distance you can get on relatively low-power throws. For players with a weak forehand who want a disc that will go 300' straight on a line with very little power, this is an amazing disc. I'm looking forward to giving one to my dad, who throws a lot of shots like that -- I think he will love this disc. It has more low-speed glide than almost anything else I've ever picked up -- far more than a teebird.

Same for newer players who want some extra distance -- this is a far, FAR better disc to give to a new player than something that gets free distance from speed rather than from glide. Too many new players see all the pros throwing Wraiths, Destroyers, Speed Demons, etc... and try to throw the same thing. Yes, they get some extra distance because of the sheer speed of the discs, but it takes years for players who learn on those discs to fix their form (if they ever do). I think for a lot of players, the Assassin will give them some extra distance that they are looking for while still teaching them how to throw correctly.

So for now -- preliminary review is a huge kudos to David and the other Gateway folks for making a disc that I think helps fill an unmet need -- both within the Gateway lineup and within golf discs in general. I will be keeping a couple in my bag for the time being, and look forward to seeing how they break in and how they become more useful as I get to know them better. The extras are being given away to people who need to become Gateway converts.

Oh, the other thing I forgot to add: These discs feel GREAT in the hand. They are discs that make you happy just to hold them. Plastic, mold, etc, are excellent.

wow!!
Thats a detailed report and a pretty good one at that.

The second wave of assassins just went out and they have a bit more dome than the 1st run's, the flight doesn't seem to me to be much different but its also been pretty cold lately, so we haven't been able to get a good day of testing in.
They feel pretty much the same in the hand and the dome can only add to the low speed glide.
We are definitely going to make something understable within a month or 2 for the newer players, as more and more stores are starting to carry our line of discs.

I believe that the 176 and 179 Assassin are illegal to use in a PDGA event.

? what are you talking about

they are only legal to 174 or 175. look at the first post on this thead. It has the tech specs

174.3 is the legal limit

Yeah. The proto run that I have is 176-177. I saw that Dave had a post about the max weight and looked up the stats for the Assassin and it stated 174.3 max.

I still love this disc!

I just got a few of the first run assasins. My first impression is tons of glide. And when I say glide I mean GLLLLIIIIIIDDDDEEE....Very controllable. The disc has some high speed turn similar to a broken in sabre but with the extra glide can be thrown lower and still come out of the early turn with some low speed fade. Not a all out big distance discs but for those shots that you need to stay straight or hold a turn for over 300ft then this is the disc. Definitely a disc that fills a huge hole in Gateways line. The plastic is super grippy too. Gotta love it.

I have been throwing these on a nose up hyzer and getting them to hold it the whole way up to about 420'

I haven't had that much time throwing long hyzers with it...of course its been windy hear lately but the hyzers I have thrown seem to flatten just a bit and max at about 360 for me. I can get more with a hyzerflip and these things have tons of carry.

I would say 400 - 420ft. is close to max D. for me.

My max. distance I've ever thrown in 425 with an Inferno but the Assassin is gaining! It's hard to practice with all the bad weather.

So then since they can only be up to 174.3g, and there has been a fair amount of debate about testing legality of discs, and whose responsibility it is to ensure proper weight, stiffness etc., WHY ARE WE SENDING OUT OVERWEIGHT DISCS?
I have played all Gateway for 3 years, they work great for me, but the first time I get called out in a tourney I am going to be slightly angry (should be read super ragingly mad).
I dont get it D, you want enforcement, but still send out illegals :confused:

So then since they can only be up to 174.3g, and there has been a fair amount of debate about testing legality of discs, and whose responsibility it is to ensure proper weight, stiffness etc., WHY ARE WE SENDING OUT OVERWEIGHT DISCS?
I have played all Gateway for 3 years, they work great for me, but the first time I get called out in a tourney I am going to be slightly angry (should be read super ragingly mad).
I dont get it D, you want enforcement, but still send out illegals :confused:



Your discs are probably fine david...There is like a +-2.5 gram tolerance above and beyond the description, so as long as you don't have a Spirit like Fab's (184g), you're probably OK.

Nah there is no need for a 184 spirit. How left do you need to go?
Is the tolerance for extra weight gained from humidity/long soaks in the pond?

btw I do like the assassin for tunnel shots to 350.

Nah there is no need for a 184 spirit. How left do you need to go?
Is the tolerance for extra weight gained from humidity/long soaks in the pond?

btw I do like the assassin for tunnel shots to 350.



B/C of injection profiling, a 184 Spirit is likely to be much more neutral in flight as more plastic has been packed into the flightplate actually reducing the gyroscopic effects. I've seen a few 185ish E Illusions go so far/straight it was stupid!

YES,,,,There were a few assassins made that are over 175.

OK,,,, so I guess a few of the over weight discs have gotten sent out. If the person who purchased the discs wants it replaced, have them contact me directly. I will be happy to replace it if necessary.

with that said;
If a players gets a hold of an over weight disc and knowingly uses it in an event, who's responsibility is it?

I think if you check you will find I have been consistent in my philosophy that players are responsible for the equipment that they use to compete with and I have advised all players to check their own equipment to make sure they are playing by the rules. Ignorance is no excuse for the law and in this case the rules!
Facts are, there are overweight discs from all companies in the market, most are just not marked with the correct weight and are being used each and every week in sanctioned events.



ATTENTION THREAD DRIFT:::::::
I do believe you are onto something here; something that I concluded from my efforts in this area.
The only people who can help regulate the discs to assure they are conforming to the pdga rules are the players who purchase them and want to use them at pdga events.
This pressure cannot come from anyone but the customer.
If the pdga decides to crank up the pressure on the manufactures, it could be a mistake as we ( all companies) are already grinding up perfectly molded and sell able discs because they are just a few grams over weight.

If a company chooses to intentionally make discs outside of the rules that are set for use in pdga play, ( and believe me when I tell you,,, its going to happen INTENTIONALLY one day and not accidentally, like in this case) they have every right to do so.
When a company makes a 20CM discs with a 2.7 wing length and 4% rim depth and it goes farther than whats in their bag, players are going to want to buy,try and use this disc.
When these discs are in your competitors bags, how are you going to know if they are never checked and do you care?

There was another topic on this, and since I stopped posting there it seemed to have died off.
If you want to discuss weights, rules, enforcing etc.. I would go check out the other thread.
There may still be someone with some energy left for this discussion. I come to find out that a lot of players could care less about rules and enforcing them ( which is a shame). If you have ideas on testing procedures or equipment email them to me at [email protected]

back on topic:

I don't want to seem aloof about overweight and non conforming discs ( it is a concern of mine, but that doesnt mean a few wont get sent out)), but honestly we are only talking about a handful of discs and at least they are marked with the ACTUAL weight, so the player will know as opposed to the alternative to that!

Your discs are probably fine david...There is like a +-2.5 gram tolerance above and beyond the description, so as long as you don't have a Spirit like Fab's (184g), you're probably OK.



Where in the rules do you see the +/-2.5g tolerance; I thought that for a mold that was PDGA legal up to 174.3, if a disc weighs 174.4g it was illegal. -- it would be great to know where to point to that 2.5g tolerance rule, since I have several discs that are overweight (including several Assassins), and it would be nice if they were legal for play.

Otherwise, I suppose I can always resort to practicing skip shots, rollers and hammers on concrete to wear away a couple of grams of plastic.

Speaking of which, does anyone have recommendation on where to get a cheap but accurate scale to weigh your own discs -- I've been curious before how close reality was to the marked values.

Your discs are probably fine david...There is like a +-2.5 gram tolerance above and beyond the description, so as long as you don't have a Spirit like Fab's (184g), you're probably OK.



Where in the rules do you see the +/-2.5g tolerance; I thought that for a mold that was PDGA legal up to 174.3, if a disc weighs 174.4g it was illegal. -- it would be great to know where to point to that 2.5g tolerance rule, since I have several discs that are overweight (including several Assassins), and it would be nice if they were legal for play.

Otherwise, I suppose I can always resort to practicing skip shots, rollers and hammers on concrete to wear away a couple of grams of plastic.

Speaking of which, does anyone have recommendation on where to get a cheap but accurate scale to weigh your own discs -- I've been curious before how close reality was to the marked values.



David Mac was talking about the tolerance. The reason behind it is that some plastics can change weight fairly dramatically due to relative humidity and if they had been submerged in water for a time. For example, the same disc would weigh differently in humid, warm FL right now than it would in cold, dry s. Dakota.

You can get a sunbeam scale at office max for 25-30 dollars (a couple years ago, maybe more now). They are for mail and are accurate to the gram. Mine is accurate, as I compare it to more expensive scales that other people own.

I believe the pdga may and should incorporate a tolerance on weight due to the fact that discs are Hygroscopic,.
a disc can gain or lose up to .02% by weight.
Mostly discs will gain weight after manufacturing but certain situations allow for them to lose weight as well!

If someone want to question this, contact Bayer polymer science technical department, BASF, or Dow!

I don't think there is any real competitive advantage to a gram or 4 and my desire to have discs tested at events has little to do with the weight aspect.
The reason for testing is the fact that down the road ( or next week) someone may decide to make discs with no intention of them being used in pdga play. Unfortunately nothing will prevent these discs from eventually making their way into sanctioned events.
If we are paying for our discs to be "approved" for play all discs used should be as well.
With no fear of testing the door will be wide open for non conforming discs, including 20 cm, 2.7 wing length and 4% rim depth which are much more important than a few grams (IMO)

Heres a link to a $50 scale that we just ordered.
I'm guessing it will be fine for a few hundred weighs, but even $300.00 scales will fail after 10 or so thousand weighs.

tell em David From Gateway sent you.

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/

I believe the pdga may and should incorporate a tolerance on weight due to the fact that discs are Hygroscopic,.
a disc can gain or lose up to .02% by weight.
Mostly discs will gain weight after manufacturing but certain situations allow for them to lose weight as well!

If someone want to question this, contact Bayer polymer science technical department, BASF, or Dow!

I don't think there is any real competitive advantage to a gram or 4 and my desire to have discs tested at events has little to do with the weight aspect.
The reason for testing is the fact that down the road ( or next week) someone may decide to make discs with no intention of them being used in pdga play. Unfortunately nothing will prevent these discs from eventually making their way into sanctioned events.
If we are paying for our discs to be "approved" for play all discs used should be as well.
With no fear of testing the door will be wide open for non conforming discs, including 20 cm, 2.7 wing length and 4% rim depth which are much more important than a few grams (IMO)

Heres a link to a $50 scale that we just ordered.
I'm guessing it will be fine for a few hundred weighs, but even $300.00 scales will fail after 10 or so thousand weighs.

tell em David From Gateway sent you.

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/



Is that .02% or .02 in decimal form equalling 2%? Not trying to be a wiseguy, its a big difference.

YES,,,,There were a few assassins made that are over 175.

OK,,,, so I guess a few of the over weight discs have gotten sent out. If the person who purchased the discs wants it replaced, have them contact me directly. I will be happy to replace it if necessary.

with that said;
If a players gets a hold of an over weight disc and knowingly uses it in an event, who's responsibility is it?

I think if you check you will find I have been consistent in my philosophy that players are responsible for the equipment that they use to compete with and I have advised all players to check their own equipment to make sure they are playing by the rules. Ignorance is no excuse for the law and in this case the rules!
Facts are, there are overweight discs from all companies in the market, most are just not marked with the correct weight and are being used each and every week in sanctioned events.




Wow! So you're saying that players need to check ALL of the discs that YOU send them? Are there weights written on the bottom of the discs that you sell? Is that weight written by an employee of yours? Since you want discs weighed at tournaments, why don't you get somebody THAT YOU PAY TO DO A JOB, actually weigh and write the correct weight on the disc and not send out overweight discs?
Just a thought.

Post deleted by Smokey102977

WOW. I didn't realize my post would cause such a ruckus. Trust me, Dave tries to make all discs as close to the max weights as possible. After working with him at the factory, I have come to appreciate what they do to get the discs to weight. At least he writes the correct weights on the discs instead of saying....oh its somewhere between 173-175 like some other company does. I have specific weights that I like to throw and for myself 3 grams can mean the difference. Dave did say that he would remedy the problem if you wanted so I don't see what the fuss is about. Things happen and this may have just been an oversight by an employee. You all need to chill.

YES,,,,There were a few assassins made that are over 175.

OK,,,, so I guess a few of the over weight discs have gotten sent out. If the person who purchased the discs wants it replaced, have them contact me directly. I will be happy to replace it if necessary.

with that said;
If a players gets a hold of an over weight disc and knowingly uses it in an event, who's responsibility is it?

I think if you check you will find I have been consistent in my philosophy that players are responsible for the equipment that they use to compete with and I have advised all players to check their own equipment to make sure they are playing by the rules. Ignorance is no excuse for the law and in this case the rules!
Facts are, there are overweight discs from all companies in the market, most are just not marked with the correct weight and are being used each and every week in sanctioned events.




Wow! So you're saying that players need to check ALL of the discs that YOU send them? Are there weights written on the bottom of the discs that you sell? Is that weight written by an employee of yours? Since you want discs weighed at tournaments, why don't you get somebody THAT YOU PAY TO DO A JOB, actually weigh and write the correct weight on the disc and not send out overweight discs?
Just a thought.


he all ready said he writes the correct weights on the discs. those weights may be above the legal limit for the disc, but he isn't lying about it like other companies. that was kind of the point.

...I have specific weights that I like to throw and for myself 3 grams can mean the difference...


C'mon, really? You really think 3 grams is gonna make or break your shot?

If you have a specific flight pattern for drivers, 3 grams can make the difference. I throw 171g. drivers. If they are 173-175g. I don't get the turn that I want and most of the time they end fading early.

3 grams makes alot. A 167g disc would be too understable for me than a 170-172g disc.

I agree JD! I throw a 167 as my turnover disc.

I agree JD! I throw a 167 as my turnover disc.



The only disc I have below 170 is a 162 S Blaze which I'm experimenting with because I love how straight the disc goes. I mean dead straight like a new Star TL and it's good for short tunnel shots but I have a174 S Blaze and that disc is like a Banshee so weight makes all the difference. Granted I know there is a 12g difference but tell someone to throw a 172g driver and then tell them to throw 167-168 and they'll see huge differences. The only reason I like to throw heavier weights is because I want that feeling of reliability. If it's too light then I dont know if it will turn and burn or what.

i think its more of a mental thing for most people.

i think its more of a mental thing for most people.

i think its more of a mental thing for most people.





You can't be serious ... really.

Tell Avery to throw a 165 Destroyer and see what he says.

Tell Avery to throw a 165 Destroyer and see what he says.


That's 10 grams, not 3. I don't doubt that weight can make a difference, but I refuse to believe that 3 grams will make a noticeable difference for the majority of players.

And I imagine Avery could throw a 165 destroyer just fine because he is a skilled disc thrower...

I am pretty sure Avery can go down to 150g because I think he does quite well in Japan.

is avery throwing Assassin's now?? :)

is avery throwing Assassin's now?? :)




No But i am!
I used it this weekend at the Buck Horn open on a 350 tight tunnel shot. Hole one for any of you that have played here. It was windy so i didn't want to throw an element. I know every one says that these discs are understable, well I do not agree at all. When thrown with Hyzer it flips up flat and flies str8, a bit of fade @ the end and I had the only Birdie on my card for that hole! It also gave me a birdie put on a par four Hyzer shot :DThis disc is a great fairway driver!
I love these things Dave! Keep them coming! Maybe some ice type plastic! That would be sweet!!!

Dave, are these being run in Chicago, and is the mold capable of handling a more traditional "E" plastic? I know that you said running this type of plastic in the Diablo would make it less stable...would the same hold true for the Assassin?

yes, actually i am dead serious. Three grams isn't going to drastically affect the flight. the only scenario i could see where 3 grams would drastically affect the flight is if your throwing into 50 mph winds.I know lots of people that only throw 175 gram discs because their are afraid if they throw lighter ones they will flip to much. i even have a mental problem, i wont putt with putters that aren't 175. Proof enough for me was that i could throw a 150 dx wraith and a 170 star wraith on a almost identical hyzer line and land them about ten feet apart. and thats a difference of 20 grams.I'm still just saying its a mental thing

o and assassins are pretty sweet. i love the plastic. and i usually hate gateway plastic.

Ice plastic would be awesome. Oh yeah Baby Blue Illusions are bombing once they are worked in a bit. Ive been throwing 2 Assassins for a couple of weeks now and for a nice easy 330 ft straight or any shot they are money. The plastic feels great but Im not sure how it will hold up. If you could get these things in a little stiffer plastic I would be interested how good they could be then. Overall, I would give them an A so far

Yes, the plastic feels too much like SRP, but I played the other day in strong wind and the disc was being tossed onto trees and rocks and it didnt scuff once so I was surprised!

Very Suprising, I haven't really hit anything hard with it but as of now it doesn't have any cuts so we will see how long that lasts.

Take a 172 disc and throw it up hill, now take the same disc 3 grams lighter and see if it makes it further up the hill. I think you will be surprised.

Take a 172 disc and throw it up hill, now take the same disc 3 grams lighter and see if it makes it further up the hill. I think you will be surprised.



Take the same two discs, same color, same hotstamp. One 172, one 175. Black out the weight marking. And have someone else mark them with a code to tell which is which without telling you.
Throw them both.
Have someone else retrieve them and write down how far each one went.
Do this 50 times for each disc.
Run the numbers and use a statistical comparison to see if they are the same or not within a 95% confidence interval.

thats a great idea. its all in peoples heads.

Take a 172 disc and throw it up hill, now take the same disc 3 grams lighter and see if it makes it further up the hill. I think you will be surprised.



You need a new thread ;)

I smacked the living "fill in the blank" out of mine this weekend. Im talking hard enough that I thought I had turned it into an instant taco. After some laughs and Sjur comforting me saying he did the same thing, I went to survey the damage. Nothing! just some brown stain from the pine tree bark.
I missed the tree on the left second round, but hit the one on the right :DStill no damage. These things are fine discs, fast st8 and durable. A must for tight str8 long fairways that demand accuracy.

Man, I can't wait to throw my Assassin. 6 weeks now and no disc golf accept a few putts recently. Having a broken leg sucks big time.
Looking forward to trying this disc when can!

I just recently recieved 3 yellow 172 E assassins in the mail (thanks Justin). I have found them to be similar in stablity of a Ch Leopard with the distance of a Ch Valkyrie. They fill a huge void that i've had with my gateway bag...now i just need one thing Dave...a more overstable version of the assassin for those 360-390 foot hyzers.

That's what a spirit is for.

i dont like flexing up my spirits into longer teebirds

Don't need to flex it, just use it till it's straight.

i want something out of the box that i slightly over stable that has similar distance. Hybrids dont have the carry and I dont throw spirits on really wooded courses which i play most the time.

I would say a Hi-Flex Diablo DT or a Raging Inferno would do just fine.

Diablo's are flippy (except the yellow ones) and beat in really quickly. The Raging Inferno starts out as a great disc but beat in after just a few rounds (maybe the new urethane will be worth while)

Try to find an Assassin prototype with the concave wing.

or you can tune a spirit. Or how bout a Blurr? I think that's it!!!

Diablo's are flippy (except the yellow ones) and beat in really quickly. The Raging Inferno starts out as a great disc but beat in after just a few rounds (maybe the new urethane will be worth while)


The Hi-Flex Diablo's last a bit longer than the normal Diablo's. And should fit the bill for that type of a shot. They are a touch more overstable than the regular run too.

Dave loves his Spirit! LOL

I do. I've used it for a while, then I dropped it to try other overstable drivers and man!, the spirit is just what I was lookin for. I just recently got back my favorite Nike Spirit that had gotten lost in creek. Now its broken and will turn over if I want it to. I didn't even haveto do any of the work!

JUST DO IT!!!

Once you have broken a spirit :DThey will bend to your will. I've got a couple that are just right. Nice s-curve. It's funny how much glide they pick up along the way.

i dont like flexing up my spirits into longer teebirds



Beat up spirits make this shot so easy, and you have spent time with the disc to beat it up, so you will know it better. Or you can try E Blurr's.

i dont like flexing up my spirits into longer teebirds



Beat up spirits make this shot so easy, and you have spent time with the disc to beat it up, so you will know it better. Or you can try E Blurr's.



Sorry guys but I agree with him those just aren't the same.

I agree,
a slightly broken in E spirit is like no other disc IMO ( for a top pro)especially into a headwind!
But if you do not have the power,, a Rage or Blurr could help a lot of players who just cant seem to get a spirit to penetrate, fly straight and Glide.
Both are still great in headwinds unless you throw too nose down or have a ton of snap!
I see a lot of guys around here using Rages JUST like I use a spirit, if they do not have a big arm they do not have too worry about it flipping on them and they are both overstable enough for MOST players.

The most recent runs of E Illusions are less over stable than previous runs and certainly less over stable than most Blurrs when both discs are new!
We do not have any 1st run Baby blues Illusions left from the (Double G USDGC batch) but the latest run of white are almost the same stability as those.

The Baby blues we do have are a bit beefy which I like a little more as they have more resistance to turn and can be thrown in windy conditions without worrying about it flipping and going an extra 50 feet farther than expected.
If this is what you are looking for try the latest run of white E Illusions!

Dave, finally got to throw some of the assassins that Justin had sent me a few weeks back. Just wanted to let you know that I think its a great disc!

I might be coming down in March again for the two C tiers (or at least one of them).