Check out this link...
sign the petition...
maybe restore the Gran Canyon Course in Brooksville...

Please check out both links.

Fabulous Florida Tour
description of course and petition-
www.fabflatour.org/ (http://www.fabflatour.org/)


Petition page-
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/GranCanyonDiscGolf/

Thanks for posting that I guess I just signed the petition. I have never played the course but have heard so many good things about it that it is/was on my list of courses to play. After you sign the petition you are asked to donate to the I petition people with a minimum of a $2 donation and with no option to not donate and the $10 donation pre filled in (I just closed my browser to exit), sorry, I support the cause but do not wish to donate to the I survey company .....
Save the course. :cool:

WOW

Beyond the petition, is there an e-mail address or, even better, a snail-mail address of suitable county officials to whom we can write, in praise of this proposal?

i too would like an address if possible as the in-laws are in the process of moving to brooksville.

I am not sure I'll look into that.....

contact info for hernando county head of parks and rec pat fagan:
[email protected]
20 North Main Street, Room 260
Brooksville, Florida 34601
Telephone (352) 754-4027
Fax: (352) 754-4427

Nice work John!

This is the best course I ever got the chance to play. My wife walked with me and loved the course also. I hope they can get it back in to play. I know I would make a trip back down.

woohoo, i played my first out of state pro tourny there last year. good to see that it has a chance again!

That is saying a lot coming from someone from North Carolina, where some of the best courses ever created are loctaed! Thanks for the support!

I've played 95 courses in 20 states....Gran Canyon was my all-time favorite, and hopefully will be again.

Reduce the course to 18 great holes 27 is way to much to maintain for anyone.Put in a second set of carpets for beginer tees.It is the only course I can say I almost died on dont get close to the edge to retrive a disc it is a long way down.It is a great piece of land with lots to work with.....

Reduce the course to 18 great holes 27 is way to much to maintain for anyone.Put in a second set of carpets for beginer tees.It is the only course I can say I almost died on dont get close to the edge to retrive a disc it is a long way down.It is a great piece of land with lots to work with.....



you are joking right? 27 holes was the wonder of the course!

I can't think of 9 holes I'd want to lose....but having lost all 27 a year ago, I could live with getting only 18 back. As a private course co-owner with plans to expand to 27, it's not all that hard to maintain, especially if you have a parks department cutting the grass. I thought they did a fine job under previous ownership, whoever and however it was done.

.............which is all getting way ahead of the game. Let's just hope the pieces fall into place for the county and one day in the future, we can sail discs off those cliffs again.

That is saying a lot coming from someone from North Carolina, where some of the best courses ever created are loctaed! Thanks for the support!


Well, here's another shot out from a NC boy. That Brooksville course was not just a round of golf, it was an experience! Lunch on the turn b/c it took so long to play. I've never seen shots like I did at Gran Canyon. I too had to traverse the treachery of the towering slopes to retrieve discs. It is the only course where I had to sign a WAIVER before I played! Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! :cool: I sincerely hope the course makes a comeback. One of my best friends just moved to Clearwater area; I'd love to play any event at Brooksville. It is still the most exciting course I have ever played.
Best of luck, guys.

That is saying a lot coming from someone from North Carolina, where some of the best courses ever created are loctaed! Thanks for the support!



I absolutly love this course! I played there as an am back in 05, and pro in 06. Even though i was not a pro the course was worth the money and drive down to play. I wish we had something like that up here in NC! We do have some great courses but nothing close to the Canyon.

our Canyon equivalent used to be The Boylan Farm.

My friend got to play the Boylan Farm back in da day when we started playing. He came back all excited and amazed by the course. I've heard stories of its greatness....wish I could've played a round or two on it.

Reduce the course to 18 great holes 27 is way to much to maintain for anyone.Put in a second set of carpets for beginer tees.It is the only course I can say I almost died on dont get close to the edge to retrive a disc it is a long way down.It is a great piece of land with lots to work with.....



I hope Hosfeld doesn't read this. This post would be considered nothing short of blasphemous! Don't mess with the Canyon...

More of a good thing, is not always good.This is the only course that I know that had a death on it.The old owner was old, and we asked him to to keep the place up for us.I am trying to rember the last golf event with 27 holes.Not 1 comes to mind...Our sport is like chinseese food ,we dont get our fill so we add more.This is not an endurance competition.I have been telling this to Greg for years, and then it was gone.The canyon is a special place, and needs a design to capture its beauty ,and challenge.Golf has courses that are over 200 years old, I dont see them adding extra holes to make it more challenging for the players, or spectators.Like Kenny rodgers says ,know when to holdem, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run.Follow success and success will follow......Time to serve some turkey fly style.. ;)

Reduce the course to 18 great holes 27 is way to much to maintain for anyone.Put in a second set of carpets for beginer tees.It is the only course I can say I almost died on dont get close to the edge to retrive a disc it is a long way down.It is a great piece of land with lots to work with.....



you are joking right? 27 holes was the wonder of the course!



I agree 27 holes all the way!!!!!

This is the only course that I know that had a death on it.


Jim had a heart attack. that could have happened anywhere.

I am trying to rember the last golf event with 27 holes.Not 1 comes to mind.


The U.S. Amateur is 36 holes of match play on the last day. sounds like an endurance contest to me.

..Our sport is like chinseese food ,we dont get our fill so we add more.


I've played the canyon with 36 holes on the property too. there's room for it.

This is not an endurance competition.


I disagree. Tournament golf IS about endurance. physical and mental.

I have been telling this to Greg for years, and then it was gone.


What are you saying? that Benefield sold the property because it was 27 holes of disc golf? that he would have kept it if it were 18?

Golf has courses that are over 200 years old, I dont see them adding extra holes to make it more challenging for the players,


Even the Old Course at St. Andrews has been tweaked in recent years.

27 Holes! or heck, add the other nine back in.

More of a good thing, is not always good.



Not always, but it was in this case. IMO.

I'm not sure endurance was an issue, anyway, since the events I played there were one 27-hole round per day, with a lunch break whenever your grouped passed through the staging area.

I am trying to rember the last golf event with 27 holes.Not 1 comes to mind.




I hosted a PDGA tournament on the 27 hole Sunrise DG Course in Wrightwood, CA last August.

I presume he was talking about ball golf.....
I've seen a number of disc golf events playing 20, 24, or 27 hole layouts.

Perhaps it could drop back to 24 holes and Hos could do some of the tweaks we talked about a few years ago to get some legit par 5s in the layout. Hole 17 to 18 was one of them. For a beautiful property like that with that many holes, it could use a handful of par 5s to fully balance the layout.

Played the Grand Canyon Course in 05 and 06...drove in the night before the tourney, slept in the car and woke up at dawn to see the course for the first time and I was amazed. Without a doubt this is the greatest course ever and it is the only course I would ever sleep in a car to be able to play it again. BRING THE CANYON BACK

One of my first tourneys as an Am was back in April '97. 99 Hole Breakout, Tyler State Park, PA. Granted, the holes weren't like the Canyon, but 54 holes day one, 45 holes day two is a lot of holes and quite the endurance test. Didn't scare me off ;)
One

I have played the Canyon many times, I do not think a single twig should be changed.
Also our local tourney each year is two rounds of 24 on Saturday and one round of 24 on sunday. One round from the Blue pads is roughly 7000 feet. No body seems to complain about it being too much, and our tourney is in June in Floirda, average 95-100 degrees. Actually last year we had a record attendance of 120 players.

Reduce to 18, don't think so.
The Canyon is considered one of the best courses in the world for what it is!
Hope to see it back soon, we miss it!!

A few par 5s, tweaking some repetitive downhill holes and some length adjustments on some holes could still make it better. Even Hos agreed when we went on a design tour around the course. But he wasn't in a position to change things at the time. Even Climo agreed that moving the tee back on #1 like we did for the Final 6 which Hos and I laid out made that better. The 27-hole layout is still fine as it is but most courses can always be improved once they've been played and better options discovered. Hope you get to keep the whole area where those holes were located.

I would never mind seeing improvements on any course. But I hope that it stays 27 holes. And no matter what Greg must be involved and overseeing any changes and have final design authority.

Agreed. Any time we get the opportunity for course improvements to be made, we should take them since the opportunities provided by ownership or park management are so infrequent at most courses due to budget constraints, labor availability or the will to do them.

Reduce the course to 18 great holes 27 is way to much to maintain for anyone.Put in a second set of carpets for beginer tees.It is the only course I can say I almost died on dont get close to the edge to retrive a disc it is a long way down.It is a great piece of land with lots to work with.....



I hope Hosfeld doesn't read this. This post would be considered nothing short of blasphemous! Don't mess with the Canyon...



I gotta agree with Flyboy on this one. 18 great holes, par 70, better baskets, better tee pads, more sets of tees would all improve a great experience.

Gotta love the property and the blood, sweat, and tears that Gregg put into it over the years, but if we all think that it was the pinnacle of disc golf, then we're selling ourselves waaay short and will never receive the mainstream acceptance and outside sponsorship that many are begging for.

The course had some legit par 4s but were known as 3s hence the course par 81...Loose 9 holes and 9 strokes par 72.This will be 1 awsome course that will be championship.The event should always start from hole 1 no need for 2 rounds on this giant.After 4 hrs you will have had enough.I dont like starting the course on a rotation that the designer had not intended on, it does not play the same, holes 1 , 9,10, and 18 are the most imprtant holes on the course. Most of the time we add extra holes to get more players on the course with 1 round a day you can have 200 + players.Tee times are the way to have a great event, and see some of the sights, in that town, that you would not have seen ... Or see some great golf from some top pros.Running events from a td point of view is a whole lot easier. ;)

Or............since only 2/3rds of the property was being used we could open up the other two finger canyons and create the final 9 to create the 36 hole disc golf megaplex that it should be. Think about it. keep the first 27 as they are. And then create the 9 more holes to be the par 4 and 5 super monster that everyone wants.
I dont know what course some of you were playing, but I know that in all of my years of playing that course I never got a 4 on a couple of holes (like 25). And I'm not that bad of a player (970) errr I am not that bad of a driver, putting is for my partner, which hurts in singles.

In addition to signing the petition I have contacted a few other non-sporting conservation groups about the land (The property lies on the Brooksville ridge which is an outstanding limestone formation which provides direct recharge to the aquifer and eventually outfalls at the spring complexes near Crystal River. A couple of years ago on the Brooksville ridge a cave was found. Not just any cave but the most heavily decorated and pristine cave in the eastern US. Unbelievable formations in there, Huge geode quartz crystals, Soda straws, stalagmaites and stalagtites, flow stones and a huge megalodon tooth sticking out of the wall.) This truly is a special piece of property. So the geologic society, and karst society in Florida will be joining our battle to have Hernando County purchase this property. (and dont worry these groups are pro-disc golf as long as we arent destroying the caves or paving the property)
Heck I will take a pay cut to be the park ranger or biologist. Ahhh I can see it now, working every day in my own slice of heaven and educating visitors on what they are looking at.

contact info for hernando county head of parks and rec pat fagan:
[email protected]
20 North Main Street, Room 260
Brooksville, Florida 34601
Telephone (352) 754-4027
Fax: (352) 754-4427



bump

I played in 4 or 5 Cross Canyon Challenges and numerous other rounds there. I was planning my vacation around that stellar tournament at what was one of my top 3 courses. Hope it comes back!!! If anyone wants to see the course I got a hole by hole DVD of KC shooting doubles there a week before the last Cross Canyon Challenge....

I went down to Florida for the first time and missed playing the course by a couple weeks.

I would love to see a DVD of KC and the course. How much for a copy?

If you want a copy PM me. I will send anyone this 2 DVD set for $12.00. Send it to:
Bart Zandstra

2902 W 54th Pl

Merrillville, IN 46410

or paypal:

[email protected]

Please indicate what the payment is for with your payment and send your shipping address.


Bart Zandstra

Want to see me discin' on Comcast Sports? Click www.channelzdj.com (http://www.channelzdj.com)

1-800-ROK-N-ROL

Below is the official description of this 2 DVD set....


Ken Climo Shoots the Gran Canyon Disc Golf Course
2 DVD Set

Ever wonder what it would be like to get picked as the Champ's partner in a casual round of doubles? This is a 2 DVD set of Ken Climo and friends shooting the Gran Canyon Disc Golf Course in Brooksville, Florida in February of 2006. This is unique footage of the Champ playing a practice round with disc golf legend J-Bird a few days before the last Cross Canyon Challenge Disc Golf Tournament. There are 8 players that flip discs for doubles partners....the Champ draws an amateur named Mark.... The first DVD follows the Champ's group through holes 1-18. The 2 4-somes combine for holes 19-27 and this is covered in the second DVD. The second 4 some includes Brad Hammock and Tony Gerling. You will see the best player in the world just pure this XTREME course. When you watch the video keep in mind that Ken is shooting with above average players. Although there is much flailing it is the difficulty of the course not the skill level of the players. This course is unbelievable...massive elevation change and real cool cliff shots with 'lost disc' areas on most if not all holes. This project was begun to show case one of my favorite courses and ends up show casing the Champ's talents. Ken and his partner post a 14 under par (with one bogie) which is the course record. Each disc plays for an hour and there are a lot of extras including highlights from the 2006 Cross Canyon Challenge Awards Ceremony and an ultra cool soundtrack. See why Ken won his unbelievable 12th World Championship later in the year. These discs are compatable with most DVD formats.

bump- save the gran canyon!!

everyone send in a buck, we will buy Fl lottery tickets, and buy the canyon, build a club house, open it to camping for tourneys and live happily ever after. Seriously 3-4 tourney a year and it would be great.........and what would the players cup look like in the canyon with a bunch of extra string line?

Great idea David!
Actually how about all existing members of the PDGA (11716)
sends $128.03 that would be 1.5 mil. Allow the PDGA to buy the property and do exactly as you said earlier!

I would do it, that's less than one tourney weekend
entry fee 45-80 bucks
Hotel 50-75 buck per night
Gas to tourney 20-40 bucks
equals 115-195 bucks....

Sounds like an easy question to me.

Power to the people!

everyone send in a buck, we will buy Fl lottery tickets, and buy the canyon, build a club house, open it to camping for tourneys and live happily ever after. Seriously 3-4 tourney a year and it would be great.........and what would the players cup look like in the canyon with a bunch of extra string line?


String line works for when it's needed. On a property like the Canyon the only places that should be OB are the edges of the property and over steep cliffs.

But the string line on some of the "repetitive downhill shots" (as someone put it) would surely make problems for even the best players. Although the course has many, many areas where you do not want to play from at all, there is relatively little OB. and seeing as all the "majors' seem to be implementing this tactic, why not make one of the most challenging courses that much harder. (not that I actually want this as it would devastate my good rounds at the course)

I was the one who commented on the repetitive downhill shots. Nothing wrong with downhill shots which everyone likes. I may be a little fuzzy on the hole numbers but it seemed like holes 2/3?, 12 and 24? were pretty much straight ahead downhill throws. I had suggested to Hos and he agreed that maybe one or two of those pins could be shifted to make it more of a left or right curve to the pin. No OB rope needed on those.

As I recall the downhill shots varied in length....one was almost straight down, one the equivalent of about a 270' throw, one the equivalent of about 400'. Not counting holes #1 & #27 (I think), also off cliffs onto the canyon floor, but then continuing on from there.

I was amazed that this was such a great course without O.B.

Hole 2 was 330ish with a tree and a branch you had to throw under, Hole 12 involved hiting the alley in the trees 40 ft up in the air. similar holes, somewhat but definently you could not throw the same shot on those 2 holes. 24 was drop in the bucket and was considerably shorter (hit the front tray with a turbo from the tee) and wide open. Maybe some alternate pin placements, but no where near repetitive. By the way sunset and wide rim margaritas and beach "scenery" why do people live up north? Oh yeah, as I stated before no OB needed, but maybe some fencing on some greens similar to the clowns mouth from usdgc

They were enough of the same shot that I was disappointed that more shot variety wasn't involved in those holes, considering the awesome terrain available. Not every place has the terrain to design a lot of variety in their downhill par 3 holes.

Wow...disappointed is not a word that comes to mind when I think of the dozens of rounds I played there. 1 of my top 3 courses for sure. You can see video on Youtube of 3 or 4 holes at the Canyon getting torn up by the Champ. It is a trailer on the Comcast Sports segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb0a9Figlrg

With awesome terrain like GC, a beginner could throw down some tees and baskets and people would think the course is great. That's why safari holes are fun there. Hos did a lot of work along with help from others. He has no problem with brainstorming ideas for possible improvements. I'm pretty sure all experienced designers secretly know things that could be better even on their best designs but can't or couldn't be done due to lack of funding or permission from the owner to do them. The downhill holes could easily be tweaked. Other issues might take more work.

Other issues like clearing the other canyons for the 36 hole masterpiece that Hos has (had) going. I just want to be able to play 1 more round of the 27 we know and love without risking tresspassing charges, or having to haul my portable basket to each placemant before playing the hole, its less than 30 minutes from my house and I am still [censored], uberpissed, that course isn't there right now.

I agree, the words disappointed never entered my mind at the Grand Canyon, unless I was counting my score. The three downhill shots (2,12,23) are no where near the same shot, each is completely different from the others. Hole 2 is about 400+- but plays 300ish (roc shot) through a tight gap right off the tee, hole 12 is 550+- and plays 430ish (accurate driver shot), and hole 23 is 300+- and plays about 120+- (putter shot)...
I agree any course could be better, but I would not change very much at all at this great course.

I'll dig even further with the fact that there are no legit par 5s on a championship layout of 27 holes. One idea Hos and I talked about was moving the tee back on 25 about 80-90 feet to make that a legit par 5. Then, to make room for the 25 extension, the 12 pin would move farther right toward and/or partway in the trees for more of a turnover shot and the 13 tee swung around 45-90 degrees to the right to use a different and potentially more fair tunnel to that cool pin placement.

Neither Hos nor I were particularly fond of 17. However, moving its tee forward far enough so players could hit a landing area at the mouth of the hole 18 corridor would be the first shot on a dogleg left, with two more throws down that corridor to make another par 5. Like I said, we had several ideas to improve the overall variety and balance of the course, not that any individual hole was a problem.

Hey Jaxtip
My inlaws live in Atlantic Beach. I haven't played Hannah park yet. How is that course? What about others besides the one I always play on the old ball golf course?
I am down there once or twice a year.
Take care

I'm pretty sure all experienced designers secretly know things that could be better even on their best designs



true that. i assisted for months in the design of one course only to realize the day after it went in the ground how much it could be improved by basically reversing the front 9. (its still one of the 5 best in the state) i tend to pick apart my own designs even more than those of others after the fact.

Most people don't realize that most experienced designers are secretly, and sometimes not so secretly, tougher on their own designs than most players are.

unfortunately i'm the same way about my play. at least it's productive in the course design sense. ;)

unfortunately i'm the same way about my play. at least it's productive in the course design sense. ;)



Got you both beat :D

unfortunately i'm the same way about my play. at least it's productive in the course design sense. ;)



Got you both beat :D



no argument there. :)

I thought 18 was close to a 5. If you played it perfectly, a 3 was a one in a million shot, 4 was very tough and 5 was decent, with a lot of over-5's. That hole was my nemesis 4 years running.
I want retribution!!!