The Beaver State Fling.

From everything I've heard this was due to having its schedule slot given to another event, and the only replacement slot being offered was the 4th of July weekend.

Well now... ain't that a serious kick in the junk for all of the awesome volunteers who gave the NW a top notch event for years.

The BSF is a great event and everyone up here in the NW has supported it for years. Its a shame the PDGA doesn't value it as highly as the rest of us.

I couldn't be more disappointed about the schedule for next year. The west coast swing is basically non-existent. The BSF is an AMAZING event and it sucks it won't be an NT event. My plans are ruined. I don't understand what happened, bummer.

I am very disappointed that the BSF in not on the schedule. Every year when they tweak the schedule the west coast gets screwed.
This year there were 12 NT event next year I counted 9 what are the other two or did they cut back.

It is a slight blow by the PDGA to not include us this year but hey we asked to be moved to later in the year due to a high probability of severe rains in May. We have been lucky the last three years and it is just a matter of time before Mother Nature Strikes Back (sorry George L.). Unfortunately the only spot we had available was 4th of July our Nations birthday and we were just not comfortable with that date. Sorry if anyone was looking to attend the NT this year in Oregon perhaps we can get back on the tour in 2009!

I am very disappointed that the BSF in not on the schedule. Every year when they tweak the schedule the west coast gets screwed.
This year there were 12 NT event next year I counted 9 what are the other two or did they cut back.



I'm guessing BSF did not want to be on the NT. With 2 Oregonians on the BoD, I'm sure they would have been on the NT if they wished. I'm frankly shocked they didn't remain on the NT schedule.

From what I hear, DGLO backed off the NT this year also at the request of the local club. HOF Classic only happens in odd numbered years, so they're not on the 2008 schedule. Sugarbush and Toronto are off the NT schedule as well. That's 5 tournaments off.

Maple Hill, Minnesota, and Tulsa are new on the NT schedule (well, Minnesota returns after a 4-year absence from the NT).

That's down from 11 to 9. Kansas City will be off the NT in 2009 (we'll have Worlds, and probably an A-Tier instead), and HOF Classic will be back on. No word on the other events.

Chap

I'm guessing BSF did not want to be on the NT. With 2 Oregonians on the BoD, I'm sure they would have been on the NT if they wished. I'm frankly shocked they didn't remain on the NT schedule.



Chap,
This is false. The TD's had a very valid request for changing the dates to later in the year than May. If you've ever been to Portland in May you'll know that the weather continually changes, and most changes mean downpours. Running a NT in pouring rain is good for no one. The tournament should be scheduled to sometime in July or August. The tournament staff was unable to get a date in that time frame, so they are dropping the tournament to an A-Tier event.

Hasta La Vista, West Coast Swing!

-ryan

yeah, what will this do to our touring players? And why not have Tulsa, Kansas City THEN Minnesota? I know there are schedules to keep, but there are no simple drive stretches as far as my calendar looks.

I am really bummed out about the BSF not making it on to the NT calendar. What a huge bummer. The closest NT to my house is now about 1,185 miles away (yes, I live in the lower 48). Any other NT getting cancelled wouldn't have disenfranchised even close to such a huge swath of the country. Why wasn't it more of a priority for everyone involved to keep the NW's only NT alive? A scheduling conflict sounds like a pretty weak excuse...it simply would have been figured out if it were a more highly regarded priority. Can't say how disappointing this is. Hopefully the PDGA will compensate with awarding some more A-Tiers to the NW (I've heard rumors to this effect, and hope they're true). The message boards all over the NW are flooded with sentiments along the lines of "this proves the PDGA doesn't care about us." In addition, getting rid of the "west coast swing" hugely increases the financial burden on non-full time pros who want to tour and are from the west.

what ever

We had an NT event in Texas, but due to the requirements in payout, the organizers pulled back to an A-tier. Fine with me and everyone involved.

There are not enough traveling Pro's to do swings. If you have 2 large tournaments back to back, both are going to suffer from the LARGER more local turnout.

Having the Beaver State Fling as a NT event brought disc golf to the eyes of many people in Portland and the NW who didn't know the sport existed. I personally think it was one of the best run events I attended this year and little support and gratitude was given to the people running it...

I too will greatly miss this tournament. It was one of the best run events at one of the best venues for our sport. The courses are amazing and Chris & Teresa and their staff always did a great job. I would always tell everyone I could that they NEEDED to get up there and see what it all was about. Now I just hope to have a chance to do it again sometime...

The tournament was also a great opportunity to play some of the other gems in the area. Pier Park, Dexter, and my favorite Oregon course, Whistler's Bend. Guess I will have to plan a road trip up there that isn't centered around a great tournament.

I'll never forget Dave's Monster 2nd shot in the final 9 of the 2005 BSF. Probably one of the most impressive shots I have ever seen.

I think posters worried about whether an event is an NT or an A-tier need to get some perspective on the current lack of difference between these tiers. To my knowledge, there's still no national sponsor underwriting the NT and boosting payouts more than what a host team can produce for an A-tier. If anything players can end up with larger payouts in an A-tier than an NT under our current economics which provides minimal outside cash.

NTs in certain areas like the midwest have been rotated among A-tier sites to spread around the pleasure or pain depending on whether you're a player or host. Only a few places like the Memorial have been NTs every year. I would think the decision by those who host the BSF to do it again would not hinge on whether it was an NT or A-tier but whether they wanted put forth the effort. If the money is there, the traveling players are sharp enough to figure out how to make the most of their travel dollars and time to select the best events regardless whether it's an NT or A-tier.

As far as rainy weather, June is the wettest month in Minnesota and the Majestic NT will be right in there. Players were soaked on Saturday worse than ever on that same weekend at this year's A-tier event. So much for worrying about rain for scheduling.

I think posters worried about whether an event is an NT or an A-tier need to get some perspective on the current lack of difference between these tiers.



If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the PDGA give thousands of dollars to each NT and waive PDGA player fees? I'd say that is a big difference between NT's and A-tiers.

There are behind the scenes finances that can help but not enough to materially affect the players. If you check, I believe there were some A-tiers that paid better than some NTs so it's not cut and dried. Providing marshals for NTs is one benefit provided by the PDGA but doesn't impact the purse.

to Chuck Kennedy:

There is certainly a major difference in payout standards. For NT's, both the basic payout percentages and the added cash computation has become so slanted toward Open players that I rarely attend NT's any more. I am much more likely to attend the Beaver State Fling, and to recommend it as part of our "Senior Tour" , if it is an A-Tier event.

I'm guessing BSF did not want to be on the NT. With 2 Oregonians on the BoD, I'm sure they would have been on the NT if they wished. I'm frankly shocked they didn't remain on the NT schedule.



Chap,
This is false. The TD's had a very valid request for changing the dates to later in the year than May. If you've ever been to Portland in May you'll know that the weather continually changes, and most changes mean downpours. Running a NT in pouring rain is good for no one. The tournament should be scheduled to sometime in July or August. The tournament staff was unable to get a date in that time frame, so they are dropping the tournament to an A-Tier event.

Hasta La Vista, West Coast Swing!

-ryan



And I'm saying, with 2 Oregonians on the BoD, they should have been able to get a date they liked and still remained on the TD, if that's what they wanted. The Wide Open has been moved around the schedule a bit for various reasons the last years, none of the moves were at our request, so it can be done if you can live with the date. One problem with moving into August is they would have to go after Worlds. I'm thinking the date where the Wide Open curretnly is should have been ok with them, but I have no way of knowing that for sure.

I do know about the weather patterns in the Pacific NW in May-June, me having a meteorology degree and all. Typically the rainy season is done by the end of May in Portland. We have a similar problem if we try and run events in April. It can be 80 degrees and sunny or 30 degrees and sleeting here in April.

Chap

Wow, I didn't realize there was already a national tour event every weekend in July and August.

There is certainly a major difference in payout standards. For NT's, both the basic payout percentages and the added cash computation has become so slanted toward Open players



As well it should be. The National Tour is Disc Golf's Premier Professional Tour whose mission is showcasing the best players in the world, and to increase sponsorship and publicity surrounding the sport of Disc Golf. It was never intended to be yet another venue for age-protected divisions.

I know there arent very many full times pros anymore but lets look at the tour!!! Oh wait it not a tour at all it just a bunch of NTs spread all over the place in really no particular order or place in the country..........I mean you start the season great with Vegas to Phoenix to Orangevale........3 great events in 4 weeks all on the same side of the country with semi close locations (but 2 of them are SuperTours)........But then you go to Texas for another SuperTour.......Then to Bowling Green for a NT then BACK to Cali for another NT which is horrible if your ON TOUR!!! Then from Cali you go to Tulsa....Then UP and OVER to MN for the Majestic then DOWN to KC for the Wide Open??? I mean if the tour was actually a tour and the stops were not spread so far apart and they went from West Coast to east Coast as the season went on and the East coast got warmer and warmer dont you think more players would become FULL TIME??? I mean with the so called TOUR the way it is almost NO ONE can go full time without spending thousands on gas to go across the country then back then back across again!!!

Bottom line is if the National Tour was a real TOUR there would be more pros on the road full time because it would make more sense........As is it now even the top guys just FLY in and FLY out of every event and they only do that because they have HUGE sponsorships and can afford to do it.......IE Doss Borg Jenks Climo Shultz and whoever else is at almost every NT on the schedule........And sometimes even those guys arent at every event because its not easy to fly all over the country every single weekend.

Just my 2 cents

IMO, the tour should do something like this.

Memorial through vegas across to so cal and then all the cali events heading north to Beaver state then head east for magestic swing down to des moines and then all the texas events, then make a turn east for southern nations and then swing back north and go through bowling green and up to michigan for dglo then head east up to warwick and marshall st. and the vermont event and all that, head south for the yetter and the VA open and then the charlotte open the weekend before USDGC then keeping heading south and finish the tour off going through augusta and florida events while finishing at the players cup.

the only major inconvience travel wise would be worlds depending on the location.

However, this limits when events can be ran and would only benefit the 5 - 10 people who tour and make about 100 volunteers have to re-arrange thier schedule and in some cases, run three or four events in a row.

Just wanted to input that 'If there is a Dan Doyle run NT happening in 2008 ..I am there'

also i would play in Oregon if there is no scheduled NT just because that place is AWESOME
Floyd Henke

I second that...you'd have a very hard time finding two courses in the same park that are the same caliber as the East and West courses in Milo Mcyver Park!

I have no doubt that the 08 BSF at Milo McIver park will be outstanding as an A-tier event.... ask anyone who has attended Oregon Series events (BSF included), they are well run and the courses at Milo are incredible..... I wish that the 2007 BSF DVD would just be finished so everyone could see.

The Fling didn't have any problem with the payouts Pizza God. BSF is one of the highest attended weekends in golf and is the largest event in the NW by a huge margin - taking that away just plain sucks. In any case, it won't stop me from playing in one the best run tournaments around. I played three NTs and a Major this year and the events coordinated by this staff are far superior. Those same folks run the Oregon series B tiers better than any of those events I attended.

mr floyd.....

no 2008 dandoyle NT events. thanks for the kind words.

after 3 consecutive years of NT events (2005 and 2006 Skylands Classics at warwick and the 2007 Sugarbush Open) i need a break. so does my pocketbook. so does my wife.

however, i am fervently discussing with the major vermonters the idea of a very special event in Vermont on august 1 thru 3, which is the weekend after the maple Hill Open NT event that takes place in northern Mass. that way players can play 2 incredible new england events back-to-back with a relatively short commute between the two.

we're working out details as you read this.

dandoyle

However, this limits when events can be ran and would only benefit the 5 - 10 people who tour and make about 100 volunteers have to re-arrange thier schedule and in some cases, run three or four events in a row.



thank you MLT, that is what I was trying to say in a way.


The Fling didn't have any problem with the payouts Pizza God.


I didn't mean that The Fling had a problem with payout, I said the Texas State Championships had a problem with the NT payout tables. They wanted to keep adding there money to Masters and Womens divisions. The NT's tour dictates how much of the added cash can be added to those divisions. So they elected to run an A -tier instead.

In Oregon, they elected not to take the weekend offered by the PDGA. They could have run the event and probably had the best turnout from out of town players ever. That is a good weekend to get players to travel.

Look, this last weekend there was an A-tier in Tulsa and the 30 year old Waterloo in Austin, plus a tournament in Texarkana, yet we ran a city event where the date was set 3 weeks ago in McKinney and had 66 players show up. this was the 6th year the city of McKinney has had us run this event at there course.

If only, touring players were catered to....

A logical disc golf road trip (http://tinyurl.com/22x2q9)

Sorry, I guess Google only lets you put in a certain number of events.

If only, touring players were catered to....

A logical disc golf road trip (http://tinyurl.com/22x2q9)

Sorry, I guess Google only lets you put in a certain number of events.



Sure that looks good on paper... :p

BUT

What time frame do you think traveling up thru the NW and then into the Rockies would be good.... :confused:
Certainly NOT in succession from the Memorial??

Unless of course you like playing in freezing rain/snow?

Just ask Dan Ginnelly how his hands felt that nice cold & rainy Masters Cup 10+ years back :o

For optium weather the NW, including Utah & Colo., needs to be played from June-Oct...somewhere in there. With mid July - Sept being best. But of course that is true for most of the northern half of the country.
Sorry but HUMIDITY SUX. The South Swing should be held in the Late fall - early spring months.

Of course areas like SoCal, Az & Florida could ANY time of the year and your pretty much assured decent weather.
:cool:

oh, I know that the Memorial is at a time when most other courses can't have tournaments, it's more of a blueprint, but yeah, colorado and Salt Lake are basically on their own if it's too early in the year. But if you think about it, Memorial in March, GSC 2 weeks later, Masters next week, BSF next, then a 2 to 3 week hiatus? before reconvening in Colorado or Texas, would put the next leg of the journey a good 6-7 weeks after the Memorial. It's possible to have a tournament then. Then again, you have florida tournaments late in the summer, during hurricane season, or just really hot.

But if you think about it, Memorial in March, GSC 2 weeks later, Masters next week, BSF next,



You dont see it...That would put you in Santa Cruz in April?? then up to Northern Oregon??

That would work , 10% of the time. The other 90% would refer back to talking to Ginnelly about his hands :o

It COULD SNOW in Portland in April.... :(

April in Oregon is pretty much guaranteed rain with very sloppy course conditions (i.e. it will have been raining since November). It will also be in the 50s in terms of temperature.

Would we rather have an organized tour that will give more people the option to actually partake in a professional tour and help grow the sport or have a bunch of scattered events randomly placed around the country so we have a 20% better chance of good weather?

I say people suck it up! I've seen 100 heat index days in the midwest from April - Oct and I've seen it snow in June in CO. I have also seen 70 degree days Dec and Feb in CO...

just my two cents :cool:

really???....cold hands!!...thats a great reason to not have a tourney

In May we have a National Tour event scheduled for here in Tulsa...we plan on showcasing our best course for this event.

If only, touring players were catered to....

A logical disc golf road trip (http://tinyurl.com/22x2q9)

Sorry, I guess Google only lets you put in a certain number of events.





What about St Patricks Classic in Orangevale ca and easter in Mar can push it back to mid to late Apr in Oregon.

the great part is, when there are breaks, that's when the other local tourneys can attract the top players, it also gives them a break from weekly touring.

I conveniently stuck Worlds in Kalamazoo right in the mix, so it wasn't some remote side trip.

It's just an idea. MTL's idea was good and simple, even if it's not 100% reality (neither is mine).

Logical strung together events makes the most sense. Most regional players would find a way to play 3 events packed together in their region if it was the "Tour Swing" for the big dogs. All the more reason to run tournaments if there are a large group of top pros that are making the circuit, that's what drives SPECTATORS. That's what drives MEDIA COVERAGE. If all our events are totally sporadic, then each event will feature whatever top pro has the desire to make the trek. Yeah, that's good for some of the local boys, but in the end, it seems like we aren't progressing forward in a plan to create a real tour, something that will get us noticed outside our little snowglobe.

Would we rather have an organized tour that will give more people the option to actually partake in a professional tour and help grow the sport or have a bunch of scattered events randomly placed around the country so we have a 20% better chance of good weather?

I say people suck it up! I've seen 100 heat index days in the midwest from April - Oct and I've seen it snow in June in CO. I have also seen 70 degree days Dec and Feb in CO...

I don't think some people understand how "wet" Oregon can get. Yes, playing the the rain is fine... even when it's cold. However, how about playing in ankle deep mud with large pools of water all over the course? This turns a course from "unpleasant" to "dangerous to play" (busted ankles, etc.). Why force the only major tournament in this region (1000 miles to the next nearest NT) to be held during the crappiest months (in terms of weather)?

Would we rather have an organized tour that will give more people the option to actually partake in a professional tour and help grow the sport or have a bunch of scattered events randomly placed around the country so we have a 20% better chance of good weather?

I say people suck it up! I've seen 100 heat index days in the midwest from April - Oct and I've seen it snow in June in CO. I have also seen 70 degree days Dec and Feb in CO...

I don't think some people understand how "wet" Oregon can get. Yes, playing the the rain is fine... even when it's cold. However, how about playing in ankle deep mud with large pools of water all over the course? This turns a course from "unpleasant" to "dangerous to play" (busted ankles, etc.). Why force the only major tournament in this region (1000 miles to the next nearest NT) to be held during the crappiest months (in terms of weather)?




ummm there is no place at Milo to have ankle deep mud or large pools of water on the course's.........but it's Oregon give it 30 minutes it will change... :eek:

is it confirmed that this will be an A tier? (If so at least all is not lost of this truely awesome event for us in the PNW.)

anyone??

anyone??



BSF will happen...as an A tier...JUST as HUGE...
:D

Still no date determined... :(

Mattlock, we are having our 1st meeting tonight to discuss dates / tier / etc. and will have information soon. I think A tier status is extremely likely. Expect the same (or better) tournament as last year... there just won't be a 'NT' in the name.

sounds good.

I didn't mean that The Fling had a problem with payout, I said the Texas State Championships had a problem with the NT payout tables. They wanted to keep adding there money to Masters and Womens divisions. The NT's tour dictates how much of the added cash can be added to those divisions. So they elected to run an A -tier instead.




This is essentially correct Pizza.

Our masters-aged players have been our greatest base of support in terms of sponsorship dollars attained, largest player pools/dvisions and volunteers that run it. We always give a healthy portion of that support back to the masters division. (I know that we've paid out 1st place Master at over $1,000 a couple of times now.)

We petitioned the PDGA for an exemption to their payout structure mandates and they declined our petition. We elected to return to A-tier status gladly. It's much easier on the organizers and staff that way and I think we stand a better chance of making our player base happier.

Until we get a major sponsor backing the NT where major financial contributions are coming in to underwrite the payout, I predict that the PDGA will have a harder and harder time trying to find cities that want to run one.

I wonder if you can sanction an NT for Open Men and Women only and have all other pro divisions as an A-tier along with Am divisions? Then, you could follow the payout guidelines of each tier and not be dinged for "too much" added to Masters?

any closer to a date for this A tier?

July 18-20 for Beaver State Fling A-tier