Interesting circumstance yesterday that got me wondering:

Can a TD declare that only a part of a fence is the OB line?

On part of our course we have a fence that separates our area from the APD Bomb Squad Unit's property. We have always played over the fence as OB, but part of the fence line is also lined with thick evergreen trees (some type of cedar, it's really thick for about 5 feet out from the fence). It's not a good place to be. The fence is chain link construction (about 7 or 8 feet tall) with a 3-strand section of barbed wire on the top (extra security). The barbed wire section leans out from the fence toward the golf course side.

My question is: Can I declare that only the top (or bottom) rail is the OB line, and not the barbed wire? There are many places where an errant throw can leave a player suspended by the evergreen branches and on the wrong side of the OB line if the barbed wire is "the line", since the outermost part of the fence is the top line of barbed wire.

PS: We do not use the 2m penalty on this coure.

Instead of making it complicated, make it simple. Paint a line and mark it with some flags on that particular hole and call it the OB line.

It has been my experience that if you call something OB most of the time but make just a few exception, people will screw it up.

Make it easy on yourself, paint it, flag it and mark it on the map.... and hope that everyone reads it. ;)

I've played your course a couple of times, John, and I know where you are talking about. It is a simple solution to just say that the OB line is a line at the outside of each pole in the ground at the ground. To try and make the line up high would not be an easy call in some cases when you get down to less than an inch. You are not required to make all parts of the fence define the OB. The bottom of the poles is enough.

Since OB is a vertical line then al parts of your fence can not be OB. Either is the fence or the barbed wire.

Since OB is a vertical line then al parts of your fence can not be OB. Either is the fence or the barbed wire.



Metal chain link fences and especially barbed wire fences, make particularly bad OB lines, because they usually are anything BUT plumb. I'd go with what Anita said....paint a line on the ground to make it clear. Make the whole fence completely OB so there's no questions about it.

Chap

Instead of making it complicated, make it simple. Paint a line and mark it with some flags on that particular hole and call it the OB line.

It has been my experience that if you call something OB most of the time but make just a few exception, people will screw it up.

Make it easy on yourself, paint it, flag it and mark it on the map.... and hope that everyone reads it.






I normally do paint (or string line) all of the OB areas whenever we have a big event, just to try to eliminate confusion because I'm very aware of how poor an OB boundary a chain link fence makes (especially old wore out fences). I'm pretty well known in my area for setting up our course so there is very little chance of questionable OB calls. Some think I go too far, but I believe in a clearly marked course for tournaments.

This particular situation is a little different, so I'm exploring different ideas. This fence is very rarely seen because of the thick tree cover along our side, and it's an area that most try to avoid becuase there is little to no benefit playing along that side of the hole. There is no way to walk through there (between the fence and the trees) to string or paint it (and I don't believe paint would be very effective in that area anyway) because the growth is so thick. But while we were searching for another players disc in the upper reaches of the branches, I noticed that a disc could be suspended by the trees, yet still be over the OB line if we used the barbed wire as the line, but safe if we use the top rail of the fence line. I'm just curious if other event organizers have come across this, and what they've used as "the line".

After doing all the writing to try to explain the situation, it's starting to seem like we need to implement the 2m. rule for these trees, since that option is available and would eliminate this ever occuring.

If a tourist was driving through town on Interstate 40, they'd never think we would have to worry about too many trees. ;)

The days of paint and string will hopefully be disappearing. Ball golf officially uses stakes (sometimes with paint) to mark hazards and we used stakes, and other flush-with-the-ground markers at Pro Worlds that would also work in public parks. If players wish to make an OB call, it's their responsibility in ball golf (and at Worlds) to bring out a string and run it between the markers. Players got a 10m tape in their player packs so no excuses. If you don't bring your tape or string, benefit of the doubt goes to the player.

Chuck, what type of stakes did you use? do you have an pictures? I love this idea. How was the visibility from the course?

How many stakes do you put out? Every 30 feet? That's gonna take a lot of stakes at my course, lots of "Hammer Time!"

We used standard 2x2 stakes painted white anywhere from 15-25 feet apart for going around wilder areas like marsh and pond boundaries. We used heavy duty white plastic 20oz tumblers from the Dollar store (3 or 4 for $1) placed in the ground upside down where we didn't want a marker sticking above the ground, especially places where the normal flight path might go over the OB area. We would just have maybe one stake in that OB area to remind people that there was a an OB area with white markers flush with the ground for easy mowing/whipping.

Along the gravel road property boundary, we used 6" lengths of 2" PVC pipe with a hole drilled thru its middle. We dug a little trough and buried the pipe lengthwise along the road about 18" in from the gravel and drove a big spike (6") thru the hole to secure it in the ground. These pipes were spaced about 25-30 ft apart. The head of the spike is the official OB reference with the white pipe just to help visibility. Other things we are planning is to use rocks painted white and almost flush with the ground in place of stakes for a more natural look in some areas now that Worlds is over.

That translates to a LOT of work for a course in a public park with several creeks, roads and fences. In my experience at this park (going on 20 years now), those kinds of markers won't last very long for a variety of reasons. On private property I can see those options working fine since the property owner has much more control over who actually uses the facility. On public park areas, I've witnessed low-paid Park employees just run the mower right over markers we've set up to designate OB areas. Also, disgruntled Disc Golfers (yes, they do get disgruntled, and not just the casual 1-disc and a 12 pack golfers) seem to have no problem tearing up something that causes them to take a penalty stroke. And then after hours, the mis-guided vandals can easily destroy hours of volunteer work.

If those areas need to be marked for tournaments with paint or string on a regular basis, it will still be worth it in the long run to do this type of permanent marking proposed. The upside cups are cheap and flush with the ground once installed. Nothing to grab onto to pull out of the ground and mowers will go right over them.

It seems like the grass on our course would cover those up in just a short amount of time, making them pretty much useless. In an area with naturally short grass, or dirt/sparse vegetation, that would be a great alternative. I just don't see it (there's a pun for you) in an area with thick, plush grass.

With such an emphasis on keeping people out of that yard, maybe you could designate the OB in front of that line of trees, at least for tournament play. Take the fence problem out of the equation and make it easier to intupret the line (whether its paint, string, stakes, etc.). Plus, you make it known that players really, REALLY dont want to end up over there.

A permanent solution is definitly harder and much more work to implement. There are a few questionable places here I would like a better, permanent 'line'.

I like having the area of trees in play, because if the player does go over there, and also goes OB over the fence, he has to choose whether or not to play the next shot from in the trees, or go back to previous lie. Most players that aren't paying attention (or those that don't keep up with our rules Discussions here :D) will choose to play from last IB spot, which will normally leave them in a really bad spot for their next throw, which will likely be a pitch out to the fairway, then another throw to get up to or around the corner, then another for a putt. However, if they choose to take the stroke and the distance, they still have to execute a very good throw to have even a slim chance for bogey. We don't have much in the way of "schule" here, so it's nice to use it when we can.

Is there any reason why we can't do as Skip contends, and just call the bottom rail (or where the posts meet the ground) as the OB line? Maybe the flexing of the chain link makes this not a viable option?

If it's just the posts and not the fence itself that identify the line then you might be OK.

A TD can use whatever means he wants to mark the division between Out of Bounds and In bounds. You could even say that the OB line is 2 feet in from said fence if you want. Just make sure it is clear and not subject to interpretation.

I dont know that line of trees as well as you do (seeing as how they really affected 2 of my shots last weekend, I should :p) but I was thinking of marking the line just outside the trunks of those trees. Thinking about it again, that would probably be harder to mark/paint/string than it was worth.

And, I guess I missed skip1 suggestion up there.....using the posts of the fence takes the chain-link/barbed wire out of the equation, and is a permanent solution. Plus, in those places where there is room between the trees and the fench up by the basket, you could still go for that difficult-but-makable putt over/around the trees.

So basically, pretend like I didnt contribute anything to this thread.....because...well, I didn't. LOL

Every voice is a contribution as long as it stays within the rules and makes people think. ;)