Me and some guys are heading down to Wilmington, NC this weekend to play Castle Hayne but we're stopping through Rock Hill to play the USDGC course. I noticed on the pdga course directory that the Winthrop Course is private??? Does this mean that outsiders can't come and play the course or what??? Why is it private???

It's only because it's on a college campus which isn't public.

Just a small correction: I'm pretty sure the ropes aren't out there yet, so you wouldn't have played "Winthrop Gold." Just the recreational layout at Winthrop University.

Word on TThe StreeTTs is The course is supposed to be ready by the 22nd of September.

Oh ya, and that street is OB Lane.

Just played Winthrop Gold this past weekend and the course looks great! We tried to play the OB lines even though they weren't there. 888 is one hell of a hole!!! Probably my favorite hole besides number 5. I noticed there was a basket missing on hole 9. Can't wait for the USDGC!!!

Just played Winthrop Gold this past weekend and the course looks great! We tried to play the OB lines even though they weren't there.



:confused:

Do you think hole 17 is a good hole or a gimmick? I bet I know four competitors that think it's a gimmick. Keep in mind that even par usually cashes at the USDGC right around 60th place.

Christian Dietrich--3 down after sixteen, takes sextuple bogey 9 and finishes 3 over. (-3) is tied for 27th, (+3) is tied for 77th.

Dan Sisk--1 down after sixteen, takes octuple bogey 11 and finishes 7 over. (-1) is tied for 42nd, (+7) is tied for 118th.

Hans Tegeback--4 down after sixteen, takes nonuple bogey 12 and finishes 8 over. (-4) is tied for 20th!, (+8) is tied for 126th!!!

Scott Martin--Even par after sixteen, takes octuple bogey 11 and finishes 8 over. (Even) is tied for 50th, (+8) is tied for 126th.

Going into #17, Christian had two bogeys, Dan had three bogeys, Hans had one bogey, and Scott had a bogey and a double bogey. They were obviously playing conservative. I doubt they abandoned that strategy on 17's tee. So don't tell me they were being too risky.

IMO, 17 is a gimmick hole. Without artificial OB, it could be a world-class, beautiful, real, peninsula hole with natural hazards and a reaonable bailout area. Instead it's gimmicky, unaesthetic, fake, imaginary, island green with a bailout area that is too small to be worth going for.

Just my opinion--These guys played some great disc golf. I, for one, feel like they got jipped.

Dude, the hole has a landing area big enough for any player to throw into and get a 3!

The only reason that players get a high score on that hole is because they fail to execute the proper shot to place it in the bales. The hole is designed to be a mental challenge that players must overcome with a solid and committed throw. The bailout area is bigger thanit's ever been and is a huge improvement over past years.

This event is not always about your golf skills, it's also about how well you can handle the mental game and make your body do what your mind tells it to do.

I bet those four players DON'T think 17 is a gimmick hole!!!


You have already won the Jacob Loper award for starting the most needless threads. Are you also trying to win the Mike Kernan award for posting the most complaints?

You have said several times that you think USDGC is awesome, that the course is awesome and that the people who run the event are awesome. But then you turn around and kick them all in the groin by continuously posting about all the things you hate about USDGC: the qualification process, the Monday qualifying, the yellow rope, artificial OB, etc, etc.

I bet those four players DON'T think 17 is a gimmick hole!!!

Reaaally? Why?

You have already won the Jacob Loper award for starting the most needless threads.

I don't feel worthy, but I'm still honored. Thank you

Are you also trying to win the Mike Kernan award for posting the most complaints?

That's like having 12 career base hits chasing Pete Rose.


You have said several times that you think USDGC is awesome,


True

that the course is awesome


Did I?

and that the people who run the event are awesome.


True

But then you turn around and kick them all in the groin by continuously posting about all the things you hate about USDGC: the qualification process,


I said it was wierd. That hardly qualifies as 'hate'

the Monday qualifying,


Untrue. I just think it's unfair that hole 17 is a part of the Monday Qualifier. Not only a part of it, but part of the sudden-death playoff.

the yellow rope, artificial OB


I don't hate the actual yellow rope. It can be helpful in a few situations like marking property lines as OB, marking natural hazards as OB, or for spectator safety like on #18. I don't hate the whimsical use of yellow rope for artificial OB. I just don't think it's disc golf and certainly don't think it belongs at our sport's national championship.

etc, etc...


There is no 'etc,' there is no other hate.

You have already won the Jacob Loper award for starting the most needless threads.



Now DAT wuz funny! :D

You have already won the Jacob Loper award for starting the most needless threads.



Now DAT wuz funny! :D


It definitely was funny... a week ago the first time she said it. Time for some new material, Discette!

Are you also trying to win the Mike Kernan award for posting the most complaints?



That's like having 12 career base hits chasing Pete Rose.



Now THAT was funny!!!

You obviously have a great sense of humor. Can we please see that side of you more often? It could make your complaints carry more weight.

I see nothing out of line with Whorley's original post---although I don't share his opinion. He brings up legitimate course design issues:

(1) Island greens, and the rules applied to missing the island.
(2) Artificial O.B., in the form used at Winthrop with the ropes (the lake and roads are also artificial and O.B., of course, but not in the sense used here).
(3) Whether any hole that produces such scoring spreads is a good design.

I'd be curious at the definition of "gimmicky" used here. I would use the term for an unusual, artificial design characteristic causing scores to be determined more by luck than skill, so I wouldn't see this hole as gimmicky.

P.S. As long as two of you are "betting" on whether or not those 4 players consider it gimmicky, how about put down some money and go ask them. I'd be curious to know, myself.

vince is far from the first one to question the design of that hole. i haven't had the chance to play it but any hole which can be a complete tourney killer for some of the best players in the world would seem legitimately questionable to me.

didn't they put some sort of cap on the number of strokes you could take on it at one point a few years back?

Getting back to the original posts, while many good points about the "mental challenge" were made, and while I'm all about incorporating more mental challenges into the sport of disc golf, intuitively something about players scoring 11, 12, 20, or more on a hole seems gimmicky. And I know that many other people also feel this same way.

Case in point, I've played many rounds with Jerry Gotcher in the Pittsburgh area over the last several years at the world class par 66 Moraine State Park and Deer Lakes courses. Jerry is a 975-rated Pro who usually spanks me by many strokes whenever we play. He throws 400+ feet, is a deadly putter, and has mid-range touch to compete with the best of them. That Jerry would take a 21 on one hole, as he did on hole#17 at the USDGC during today's round, seems very, very wrong to me.

I'm assuming from some of the scores we've seen that there is no drop zone this year---just a re-tee. (I'm too lazy to luck it up and verify).

There was a thread on island holes recently talking about a cap of some sort on island holes, such as 2 or 3 throws from tee and then a closer drop zone. I'd think a scoring spread of 2-8 would be enough pucker factor.

Not that #17 will ever affect me---they'll never lower their standards enough to let ME into the USDGC.

didn't they put some sort of cap on the number of strokes you could take on it at one point a few years back?




No cap but for several years there was a drop zone closer to the hole that you could go to after so many tee shot misses. Last year, the drop zone was on the green 60 feet from the pin which you went to after two tee shot misses and were lying 4 on the green. I think 7 might have been the worst score taken last year on 17. This year, no drop zone and every miss is a retee. There's a lay-up area that apparently is not just a cakewalk to hit and if you miss it you retee. I'm thinking that these players maybe couldn't even play safe if they're still taking double digit scores today. I wonder if it's extra windy today?

Ive been here since last friday and the only time I missed the Island on 17 was when I was trying to skip ACE it (which I did once) or if I was really trying to park it.............I play in the Monday qualifying round and when we got to 17 I was 2 down and there was a pretty decent headwind..........I stepped up threw a nice easy sidearm at the basket that hyzered off easily into the bailout area to the right of the basket........I layed up and took an extremely easy 3.............The hole is not hard unless you make it hard..........Anyone at this tournament should easily be able to throw a shot to the far right side of the green and have no problem taking a 3..........Its the people who try to get the 2 on that hole that get in trouble...........Then after a couple dont get into the bails they start getting frustrated and KEEP trying to park the basket when they simply could have played it safe to the right side in the 1st place............Not to mention you can jump putt off the tee to a safe area right in front of the tee pad and THEN lay up to the right side then lay up again and at worst take a 4...........Its not a gimmick people just like to try and birdie short holes like that and in this case a 3 is a EASY and great score to take on that hole........since as you mentioned before people who go for it RUIN their rounds.

Not that #17 will ever affect me---they'll never lower their standards enough to let ME into the USDGC.



I'll bet a big fat sponsorship check would get you in!

.

Not that #17 will ever affect me---they'll never lower their standards enough to let ME into the USDGC.



I don't know...as long as you have a rating above 59 you can compete in the national championship.

"Above 59"?????

There's not enough light in a day to throw enough strokes to have a rating of 59! Though some days, if you saw me putt, you'd think it was within my reach.

Not that #17 will ever affect me---they'll never lower their standards enough to let ME into the USDGC.



I'll bet a big fat sponsorship check would get you in!



True, but it still wouldn't be a good idea. Some of us are just gallery material at the USDGC.

your rating is 901.

I'm surprised you weren't hand picked to play!

I'd sue for libel for someone posting my rating, but the facts would give you a pretty strong defense.

I count only 2 players rated under 928 in attendance. If I snuck in and shot my rating yesterday, it would have been an 88. Ugh.

If your point is that there are too many loopholes in the qualifying, well, that's another kettle of fish. But they clearly haven't lowered the bar down to my level or, for that matter, anywhere near the minimum standards for entering the "World Championship".

I just feel that there are too many good players who don't get in simply b/c they can't qualify for one reason or the other.

This year alone, there are major players in disc golf who aren't even playing.

Phil Arthur and Walt Haney jump in my mind. Larry Leonard is another.

Instead of these guys, we have guys who get thier name drawn from a hat and tournament directors.

Lord knows I have incredible respect for TD's but running a qualifying event shouldn't get you in the biggest tournament of the year. Sounds like if I really want to get in I just have to run a big tournament and in a few years get a qualifying spot at my tournament and I'm in.

That says nothing for me as a player, only as a TD.

I think we are sacrificing stronger fields to not hurt anyones feelings for not being as talented as everyone else.

Considering there have only been three winners in eight years, it doesn't look like it matters too much who else is there but the top 10 rated or so. Dave and Harold indirectly confirmed that on air when asked why only those three have won. They said if the course tests skill at this level then all you need to do is look at who has the highest ratings.

So, (tongue in cheek) basically whoever else plays become spectators anyway with some taking home some decent cash. :p

I guess that is a valid answer if all you are concerned with is winning.

I just feel that there are too many good players who don't get in simply b/c they can't qualify for one reason or the other.

This year alone, there are major players in disc golf who aren't even playing.

Phil Arthur and Walt Haney jump in my mind. Larry Leonard is another.

Instead of these guys, we have guys who get thier name drawn from a hat and tournament directors.

Lord knows I have incredible respect for TD's but running a qualifying event shouldn't get you in the biggest tournament of the year. Sounds like if I really want to get in I just have to run a big tournament and in a few years get a qualifying spot at my tournament and I'm in.

That says nothing for me as a player, only as a TD.

I think we are sacrificing stronger fields to not hurt anyones feelings for not being as talented as everyone else.



The pros that failed to qualify (or register on time) were not denied access to the USDGC because some hardworking, volunteer TD's received invitations.

It is great that you have immense respect for TD's. However, it takes an enormous amount of personal energy and sacrifice to run a successful qualifying event. These TD's have THE most thankless job in disc golf. I give huge kudos to Harold and Jonathan for offering these overworked, selfless volunteers a chance to play in the biggest event of the year. They not only get a small reward (that they must pay for), but they also get a chance to see how the greatest tournament in disc golf is run. Hopefully they take some of that back with them and put it in to their next event. I think this is just one of the many ways that the USDGC gives something back to the sport. They don't just put money in the pockets of the top pros.

I also have no problem with each state being able to nominate a player. Most states have guidelines on how players will be selected. I see nothing wrong with pulling a name out of a hat or with PDGA State Reps appointing themselves or their best friend as long as everyone in the state thinks that is cool. Again, it is not because each State gets the chance to send a player that keeps any "top" player from qualifying.

Apparently several "top" players didn't get in this year because they were not willing to do what it took to qualify or didn't pay their entry fees on time. It had nothing to do with hard working TD's being rewarded for their thankless jobs or State reps sending their best friend or someone getting their name pulled from a hat.

It is a player's own responsibility to do what it takes to get into the USDGC if that is what they desire. Taking away invitations from qualifying TD's and State Reps would not solve the problem of top players not qualifying or registering on time.


BTW, good luck on sacrificing your playing time, your family time and your personal time to volunteer to put on an event that will be so awesome and successful it could become a USDGC qualifier.

how about people that just give sponsorship are they allowed in???

how about people that just give sponsorship are they allowed in???



If someone writes Outlaws a nice check, are you going to tell them they can't play? :)

On the PGA Tour, they're called sponsor exemptions. See Michelle Wie.

BTW, good luck on sacrificing your playing time, your family time and your personal time to volunteer to put on an event that will be so awesome and successful it could become a USDGC qualifier.



Thanks!

My vision for this tournament will finally happen this coming summer with the first annual version of this.

It is going to rock. I LOVE running tournaments. :D

If someone writes Outlaws a nice check, are you going to tell them they can't play

if outlaws was a qualifyier than yes sorry but go qualify.

A reminder that the USDGC was not instituted by the PDGA, but by folks who envisioned something different---especially in the disc golf world of 10 years ago. It was their decision to have a tournament that was not "open", but that had strict entry requirements, resulting in an event that people really strive to get in on.

The format they decided on is a hybrid of a "best-of-the-best", qualifying by top finishes in a limited number of events, and "representative", with spots for each state and former world champions. If you're expecting an event limited to only the very best players, the USDGC isn't, and was never intended to be, it.

I think Magilla said something about trying to get a sponsor exemption but he couldn't explain to Harold why it would help his business to be a USDGC sponsor, at least to Harold's satisfaction. So no go.

how about people that just give sponsorship are they allowed in???



you used to be able to do that but harold changed the stipulations for sponsorships so that people that had money to spend and wanted to play(like me)couldn't just "buy" their way in.....

i think it is fair the way it is is done and it does reward the td's or people that hold other thankless volunteer jobs in disc golf the opportunity to get a chance to pay and play in the event...

suzette makes a GREAT point about the fact that if nothing else, td's and other volunteers get to see what it REALLY takes to put on an event that EVERYONE has so much passion about and an event that 95%(my estimate) of the disc golfers in the country would LOVE to play in, so i say let harold run the event as he wants and enjoy it for as long as it lasts

does anyone remember when it first started that harold had only committed to 2 years and it was available for ANY OTHER city to bid on..... :eek:

i didn't think so :D

****, i've got to learn how to type faster

so how did J. rotan qualify just curious?? I like Joe good guy

I believe it was a sponsorship exemption, but I could be wrong

I've been reading back through the posts here, good entertainment.

There is nothing weird, wrong, bad, disgusting, stupid, strange, or incomprehensible about the selection of players for the USDGC.

If one believes in market forces, you can't argue success. Harold may be picking his nose, but it works. He has used insight to build a system that induces players to volunteer at a high level, sponsors to sponsor at higher levels and top players to attend certain events and play in certain ways that are good for the sport. Christ, I'd call the man genius, but I've already reserved that for UPM.

I guarantee that if a larger better funded sport looked at what Harold has done and thought he could duplicate it for them they'd come knocking.

When one sees the kaviching that is going on here one has to wonder how much of it is about, "I don't get to play."

Thanks, Keith & Lyle, for saying what I was trying to say, but much better.

My earlier comments about it being a tournament I will never be able to play in, were meant in praise of the USDGC. I hope they came out that way.

Here is a comparison of adjusted scores from round 2 in 2005 vs 2007. It includes only the scores of the top players down to the point where their average player rating equals 1000. This way only those who are playing at the Gold level are included.

In addition, no scores more than 3 over the scoring average on the hole are allowed. If a player shoots an 8 on a hole with a scoring average of say 4.7, the 8 is changed to a 7 for the purpose of analysis. The number of adjusted scores is shown at the bottom of each table as teh "capped" value. The number of capped scores is probably an indication of something in the design that could be improved.

USDGC 2007 - R2 - 120 players
<table> <tr> <td>Hole</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>3</td><td>4</td><td>5</td><td>6</td><td>7</td><td>8</td><td>9</td><td>10</td><td>11</td><td>12</td><td>13</td><td>14</td><td>15</td><td>16</td><td>17</td><td>18 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Avg ></td><td>2.5</td><td>3.8</td><td>3.0</td><td>4.1</td><td>5.0</td><td>2.7</td><td>2.6</td><td>3.8</td><td>3.9</td><td>3.8</td><td>4.7</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.3</td><td>3.1</td><td>3.8</td><td>3.1</td><td>3.3</td><td>4.0 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1 & 2</td><td>49%</td><td>0%</td><td>33%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>38%</td><td>48%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>16%</td><td>0%</td><td>14%</td><td>24%</td><td>0% </td></tr> <tr> <td>3</td><td>49%</td><td>34%</td><td>48%</td><td>28%</td><td>0%</td><td>56%</td><td>48%</td><td>34%</td><td>44%</td><td>47%</td><td>3%</td><td>5%</td><td>0%</td><td>66%</td><td>37%</td><td>63%</td><td>48%</td><td>38% </td></tr> <tr> <td>4</td><td>2%</td><td>54%</td><td>13%</td><td>46%</td><td>32%</td><td>6%</td><td>5%</td><td>53%</td><td>25%</td><td>33%</td><td>54%</td><td>53%</td><td>28%</td><td>13%</td><td>51%</td><td>22%</td><td>9%</td><td>33% </td></tr> <tr> <td>5</td><td>0%</td><td>10%</td><td>8%</td><td>15%</td><td>39%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>11%</td><td>24%</td><td>10%</td><td>27%</td><td>26%</td><td>41%</td><td>6%</td><td>12%</td><td>1%</td><td>13%</td><td>20% </td></tr> <tr> <td>6</td><td>0%</td><td>2%</td><td>0%</td><td>9%</td><td>24%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>2%</td><td>7%</td><td>10%</td><td>9%</td><td>14%</td><td>17%</td><td>0%</td><td>1%</td><td>0%</td><td>6%</td><td>8% </td></tr> <tr> <td>7+</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>3%</td><td>5%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>8%</td><td>2%</td><td>15%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>2% </td></tr> <tr> <td>Capped</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>4</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>0 </td></tr> </table>

USDGC 2005 - R2 - 126 players
<table> <tr> <td>Avg ></td><td>2.7</td><td>4.0</td><td>2.7</td><td>3.9</td><td>5.5</td><td>2.9</td><td>2.4</td><td>4.1</td><td>4.1</td><td>3.6</td><td>4.6</td><td>4.5</td><td>5.6</td><td>3.2</td><td>4.4</td><td>3.1</td><td>2.8</td><td>4.2 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1 & 2</td><td>33%</td><td>0%</td><td>46%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>16%</td><td>60%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>12%</td><td>0%</td><td>20%</td><td>62%</td><td>0% </td></tr> <tr> <td>3</td><td>63%</td><td>27%</td><td>37%</td><td>32%</td><td>0%</td><td>77%</td><td>38%</td><td>17%</td><td>31%</td><td>56%</td><td>7%</td><td>6%</td><td>0%</td><td>73%</td><td>16%</td><td>51%</td><td>9%</td><td>25% </td></tr> <tr> <td>4</td><td>5%</td><td>50%</td><td>15%</td><td>52%</td><td>13%</td><td>7%</td><td>2%</td><td>62%</td><td>39%</td><td>35%</td><td>47%</td><td>53%</td><td>13%</td><td>4%</td><td>40%</td><td>29%</td><td>21%</td><td>44% </td></tr> <tr> <td>5</td><td>0%</td><td>19%</td><td>2%</td><td>13%</td><td>42%</td><td>0%</td><td>1%</td><td>17%</td><td>20%</td><td>6%</td><td>33%</td><td>29%</td><td>40%</td><td>10%</td><td>32%</td><td>1%</td><td>8%</td><td>20% </td></tr> <tr> <td>6</td><td>0%</td><td>3%</td><td>0%</td><td>4%</td><td>29%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>3%</td><td>7%</td><td>3%</td><td>8%</td><td>6%</td><td>25%</td><td>1%</td><td>9%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>10% </td></tr> <tr> <td>7+</td><td>0%</td><td>1%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>16%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>3%</td><td>0%</td><td>5%</td><td>5%</td><td>22%</td><td>0%</td><td>3%</td><td>0%</td><td>0%</td><td>1% </td></tr> <tr> <td>Capped</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>6</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>9</td><td>0 </td></tr> </table>

IMO, 17 is a gimmick hole. Without artificial OB, it could be a world-class, beautiful, real, peninsula hole with natural hazards and a reaonable bailout area. Instead it's gimmicky, unaesthetic, fake, imaginary, island green with a bailout area that is too small to be worth going for.



First off, there is no such thing as artificial OB. I'm not sure why so many people on this board label it as such because roads, fences, sidewalks, buildings and many lakes and ponds are "man-made", yet you don't see folks calling those out of bounds areas as "artificial". Everything and every place on a golf course is in bounds until the designer or the tournament director designates it otherwise.

As for hole 17 at Winthrop Gold, I think it is a brilliantly designed hole and one of my favorite par 3's on the planet. I scored a 21 during the second round which included 8 tee shots that landed either short or long before I finally conceded to pitch out to the safe area in front of the tee. One of the reasons I stubbornly continued to go for the green was the fact I had already tanked my score with two earlier "tin cup" performances on holes 3 and 9. Had I been playing a decent round up to the hole, I would have played the hole differently.

From the safe area in front of 17's tee, I threw one more in the OB before landing the green, making the putt and scoring my 21.

That afternoon, I spent a good amount of time watching other groups play the hole. I witnessed lots of shots, both good and bad, but the most successful shots to land safely on the green seemed to be the right handed forearm. I also observed several high-calibur players who pitched out 50' from from the tee to shorten their approach to the island. I'm glad Harold added this in-bounds area to the design and did away with the "throw two from the tee and drop on the green" like last year.

In reference to the quote above, there is absolutely nothing "fake" or "imaginary" about that island green. I'm willing to bet those guys you referenced in the original post didn't think their penalty strokes were fake or imaginary. How you can say those players were "jipped" when other competitors posted bogey-free scores makes absolutely no sense to me. And for the record....that natural hazard you reference, the lake...........it ain't natural. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks for the lesson in semantics.
You're right, there is no difference between a permanent road, lake, tree, property boundaries and an arbitrarily-placed yellow string that moves at the whimsy of Mr. Duvall every year.
Maybe I need a better word than 'artificial.' Maybe a similar word that has a connotation of 'permanent.'

As for hole 17 at Winthrop Gold, I think it is a brilliantly designed hole and one of my favorite par 3's on the planet.

I appreciate you opinion.

I'm glad Harold added this in-bounds area to the design and did away with the "throw two from the tee and drop on the green" like last year.

So you didn't like it so much last year? Was it not-so 'brilliant' last year? Maybe you won't like it so much again when it changes again next year.

<h2>2007 G-Town ThrowDown

PDGA C-Tier</h2>
<h4>1 Day, 2 Rounds

Nov. 24, 2007 sign-up until 8:30

Rankin Lake Disc Golf Course

Gastonia, NC (20 minutes west of Charlotte NC, 30 minutes south of Hickory, 45 minutes from Rock Hill, 1 hour from Spartanburg)

Easy to find - right next to the intersection of Hwy 321 and Interstate 85! Google maps link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=rankin+lake+rd+gastonia+nc&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=35.291309,-81.189179&spn=0.015868,0.042572&om=1)!</h4>


Awesome course! More than $450 in added cash! Great Players' Packs! Catered Lunch! $5 Raffle with lots of great items! Players' Party! Stay overnight - lots of great Charlotte area courses to play on Sunday!</p>


You know you want to come Throw Down in G-Town!</p>


Flyer: http://www.gastondiscgolf.com/images/2007G-TownThrowdownTournamentFlyer.jpg</p>


Online Registration/Payment: http://www.gastondiscgolf.com/registration.htm</p>


Club Website: http://www.gastondiscgolf.com</p>


Please forward this info out to your club members, and post the flyer at your courses!

Send us your flyers and we'll return the favor!</p>


Thanks!</p>


Beren Longstreet

Promotions & Merchandising Officer

Gaston Disc Golf Club

gastondiscgolf@gmail.com

704-616-6426</p>

Winthrop Gold is a beast. If you get a chance to come play 888, don't miss it.

I will traveling to South Carolina this summer and would like to play Winthrop Gold. Is this course open to the public? Is it year-round? Are there any other issues that I should be aware of?

Thanks everyone.

im not sure on the official stance on 'is it open to the public' but I can tell you that the public does play there.

depending on when you come thru in the summer you might not get to play the actual 'gold' course and hole 5 is tough to play depending on the weather with lots of people hanging out along the waterline.

The 43 miles of yellow rope won't be there.....so you won't get the full "gold" experience.

Isn't there a normal course, then the gold layout used at USDGC?

Baskets are there but no rope, so the 'gold' challenge is more like 'bronze'.

Isn't there a normal course, then the gold layout used at USDGC?



Yes, unless things have changed. Someone from Rock Hill/Winthrop can correct me if I'm wrong, but....

There is the "Lakefront" course, which is the normal course and well worth playing. Scenic, manicured, lots of water, moderate length.

The Gold Course overlays it; some shared holes, a couple of combined holes (2 holes on the Lakefront making 1 hole on the Gold), plus some long holes in areas not used by the Lakefront. The Gold course incorporates roped OB to greatly constrict otherwise wide open holes. And....the shared holes have different hole numbers on each layout.

Unless signage has improved, finding tees for the Lakefront course, which may be flush with the ground with no sign, and reconciling the numbers on tees with the numbers on the baskets, can be confusing. A map is a must. A local guide, even better.

a few things... lakefront is the normal layout and david is correct that unless you print a map out from somewhere its hard to find your way around (same can go for gold)

Chuck... the baskets aren't all really there for gold year round. Some are gone at different times and others don't get put into the normal pin placements until closer to the USDGC... i think 1, 2, 6, 13 aren't in the normal gold spots and I believe sometimes 9, 10, 17? might be moved/gone as well.

Also as mentioned... without the ropes you really can't compare to what you can shoot on gold if you're hoping to see how you'd stack up against the big boys. For someone thats never played the full setup before you'd be amazed at how many of your shots are either in or out (seems like more of the latter) by less than a foot or 2 and inches sometimes.

If you're just looking to try and play the course for fun on your way through town then print the gold map out... go to the course and you might have to play to where the basket should be but it could still be fun.

best way short of playing in the actual tourney would be paying to qualify on Monday, US Dubs or spectator day.

I will traveling to South Carolina this summer and would like to play Winthrop Gold. Is this course open to the public? Is it year-round? Are there any other issues that I should be aware of?



One issue is that it's likely to be rather warm out on those open, near-shadeless holes in the summer sun.

Thanks everyone. I just wanted to play this course under whatever conditions (pins, tees, OB's, etc...) that I find it. I hear wonderful things about it. Many say it is one of the "must play" courses. Since I don't get that way, from Ohio, very often, I wanted to take the chance to hit it while I can. I will print a map and then try to find a local when I arrive to show me the way around.

All the baskets should be there. Only hole 1 and 6 are in different positions. No ropes, but plenty of wind lately.

This is a google maps picture of the green area of #5 at Winthrop. Lots of people throw in the water here. Is that what is seen in the picture? I don't know what else it could be but I don't understand how they would be visible. Any suggestions?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rock+hill,+sc&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Rock+Hill,+York,+South+Carolina&gl=us&ei=C38fTM6PN5CknQeyxv3vDQ&ved=0CCIQ8gEwAA&ll=34.943404,-81.015551&spn=0.000589,0.0012&t=h&z=20

I think I see my Zephyr...

I'll bet it's just little waves and ripples in the water. They're close to the fountains too.

I'll bet it's just little waves and ripples in the water. They're close to the fountains too.

i don't think that can explain why a) it isn't all over the water b) there are obviously reds and blues and greens and whites and other colors that wouldn't be caused by ripples.

btw, why did this get moved into the USDGC thread? i wanted it to be its own thing and not the end of a 2 year old thread.

the colors are like a prism separating the light

If this is "The National Championship" why were there only a few vendors there? It seems to me that this event would attract a most of the disc manufacturers and other companies that support this sport. Not to hate on them at all, but it felt to me like the Innova open! Not a true PDGA National Championship.

National championship is about prestige, or what competition players most want to win. Right now, USDGC and Worlds seem to fit that role. I also suspect that the course has a lot to do with it. Vendors seem irrelevant.

National championship is about prestige, or what competition players most want to win. Right now, USDGC and Worlds seem to fit that role. I also suspect that the course has a lot to do with it. Vendors seem irrelevant.

SO true... I could not agree with you more for the players.
but what about spectators who want to come watch?

I am just asking why there is not any representation from other companies. It was interesting to take a new player to Rock Hill last year and try to explain why he couldn't purchase his favorite discs at "National Championship" He assumed he could save up some cash and stock up on his favorite discs from that companies booth. "Its the National Championship why would they not be there?" was his question. I honestly still don't know why. I do however, have some ideas.

I don't think the USDGC is a "National Championship", in the sense that most sports have one. Despite it's name.

In most sports the governing body designs the format and rules for how to qualify and win a championship, and the championship is the one ultimate goal for participants. In our case, the World Championships more-or-less fill this role.

The USDGC is much more like the Masters golf tournament.

The folks from Innova conceived and created an event with high prestige, where paying an entry fee wasn't enough to get you in. They named it a Championship, but this is disc golf, where we crown 7,251 "champions" of some sort or another each year. Anyway, it's hard surprising that it seems to be an Innova event.

SO true... I could not agree with you more for the players.
but what about spectators who want to come watch?

I am just asking why there is not any representation from other companies. It was interesting to take a new player to Rock Hill last year and try to explain why he couldn't purchase his favorite discs at "National Championship" He assumed he could save up some cash and stock up on his favorite discs from that companies booth. "Its the National Championship why would they not be there?" was his question. I honestly still don't know why. I do however, have some ideas.

Do you think Toyota is allowed to promote their vehicles during the Nissan Open? Would GM let Ford display a car or truck during the Buick Invitational? How about Innova merchandise being sold at The Player's Cup?

Food for thought...

Food for thought...

Alas, methinks otimechamp's thought-maker may have already starved to death.

Do you think Toyota is allowed to promote their vehicles during the Nissan Open? Would GM let Ford display a car or truck during the Buick Invitational? How about Innova merchandise being sold at The Player's Cup?

Food for thought...

Obviously not... Its the Nissan Open! Im talking about the U.S Open! Not the Buick Invitational? Of course GM would not let Ford display there cars there. Thanks for your point not sure if it helped answer anything.

Alas, methinks otimechamp's thought-maker may have already starved to death.

That was helpful glad you joined in!

I don't think the USDGC is a "National Championship", in the sense that most sports have one. Despite it's name.

{That was the shocker for my friend. He thought he was going to a National Championship, and was let down. }

In most sports the governing body designs the format and rules for how to qualify and win a championship, and the championship is the one ultimate goal for participants. In our case, the World Championships more-or-less fill this role.

The USDGC is much more like the Masters golf tournament.

The folks from Innova conceived and created an event with high prestige, where paying an entry fee wasn't enough to get you in. They named it a Championship, but this is disc golf, where we crown 7,251 "champions" of some sort or another each year. Anyway, it's hard surprising that it seems to be an Innova event.

{ true }

That was helpful glad you joined in!

You're quite welcome. Glad to be of service.

And, for the love of FSM, feed that poor little guy. At least some Kennedy brand junk food. (Or is he bulimic?)

The folks from Innova conceived and created an event with high prestige, where paying an entry fee wasn't enough to get you in. They named it a Championship, but this is disc golf, where we crown 7,251 "champions" of some sort or another each year. Anyway, it's hard surprising that it seems to be an Innova event.
Former PDGA Commisioner, Jim Challas, conceived the US Open Championship for the PDGA to be hosted in Minneapolis around 1996 but various factors prevented it from getting underway. A year or two later, Innova tweaked the name (dropping Open to prevent the USGA from claiming trademark) and developed the event to what it is today. There are still some collectible minis and discs with the ill-fated event logo on it that may occasionally surface on eBay.

Former PDGA Commisioner, Jim Challas, conceived the US Open Championship for the PDGA to be hosted in Minneapolis around 1996 but various factors prevented it from getting underway. A year or two later, Innova tweaked the name (dropping Open to prevent the USGA from claiming trademark) and developed the event to what it is today. There are still some collectible minis and discs with the ill-fated event logo on it that may occasionally surface on eBay.

So its less of an open championship and more of an invitational right?

Yep. Although even the Open Championships in other sports require players to qualify in some way similar to the USDGC.