So let's see...

the 2 majors thus far...

Worlds - 3 out of final 4 were discraft, winner was discraft.
MSDGC - playoff with 2 discraft players.

It looks like Discraft actually signing players under 1000, which Innonva does not do very much, is shifting the power in disc golf.

Young players are getting picked up left and right by Discraft and they are elevating thier game to high levels.

Innonva's big guns are getting older and it seems that Discraft's top guys are getting younger.

In my opinon, unless Innova does something and changes thier ways, within 15 years, Discraft will be the major name in the sport.

If a Discraft player can win the next two majors, this will prove it's already happening. Either way, worst case scenario will be a 2 - 2 split.

MTL- great topic.

You hit the nail right on the head.

Here in D/FW , Discraft is showing up in more and more bags across the metroplex. Many new players are picking it up, many seasoned players are making the switch.

Alot of this has to do with local pro My Hero.. He is a great representative for the company... And is very persuasive.....

a disc is a disc.....just learn to throw better

Innova has some up and comers that will definitely take over in the next 5-10 years. Guys like Greg Barsby, McCabe, Leiviska, and Doss are pretty much going to be the next big guns. But Innova is loaded with talent that will definitely represent well in the future. David Wiggins Jr. anyone???

Doss proved himself to be the real deal. Many thought his 2005 win was a fluke, but for him to take it down at a place like Highbridge and their Gold course is all that's needed to squash the non-believers. Way to go Doss!

I really think this is why the Scout Team was made.

In the past, players, like Coda for instance, would sign with Discraft young and then would "get there" and then jump to Innova.

With the exception of a few guys, the top players were all Innova.

Now, Discraft, with discs like the Buzzz and Predator (much better discs than Innova counter parts Roc and Firebird [although I now throw the Max instead of the Predator which I toyed around with for a while]), these players are sticking with Discraft.

Innova I think is realizing that they can't sit and wait for players to come to them. These guys are still signing with Discraft "young" and then sticking with them.

I'm sure many on this board would highly disagree with you saying that the Buzz is better than the Roc...thats a bold statement...

I base that statement off of my personal experiences and 3 1000 rated players who have recently switched from Innova to Discraft or dropped Innova and are now free agents.

All 3 agreed the Buzzz was a better disc.

And just for the record, I still throw the 10X, 11X and Ontatio Roc.

However, not nearly as much now due to the buzzz

I'm sure many on this board would highly disagree with you saying that the Buzz is better than the Roc...thats a bold statement...



I agree.....honestly, you can't really compare the two. You'd be better off comparing the Buzzz with an Innova Shark.

The Buzzz is better than a Roc for certain shots, and I'd say the Roc is better than the Buzzz on A LOT of shots. (BTW the Buzzz is my favorite mid range)

Look at a lot of peoples bags: 5 Rocs, 1- new for hyzers, 2- used for hyzers to straight shots, 1-Rancho Ontario for pancakes, and 1-beat for turnovers.

Or
1 Buzzz-for any mid shot

Look at a lot of peoples bags: 5 Rocs, 1- new for hyzers, 2- used for hyzers to straight shots, 1-Rancho Ontario for pancakes, and 1-beat for turnovers.

Or
1 Buzzz-for any mid shot




I know people that throw the buzzz and for that matter throw nothing but Discraft and they would disagree with that statement "1 Buzzz-for any mid shot".

They have new, slighty-beat and beat Buzzz in there bag also.

So the 1 buzzz is a far cry there Mr. Smoooth...

Before you all start writing off Innova - a little reality check, from a quick look at the tourney results:

2007 SuperTour (A-Tier or above tourneys).

Innova Sponsored Players: 24 wins

Discraft: 8 wins

Gateway: 4 wins

Not to take away anything from Cale, Nate and Randolph, but implying that Discraft is dominating is stretching it a little. They did have a great showing at the World Championships.

On the disc issue - everyone always has a preference, but to argue about it is almost pointless. Nearly all of the elite players could play with Innova, Discraft or Gateway and continue to dominate.

Difference in perspective: Note that Innova has no problem indicating Nate is the new Open World Champ on the top of their Home page. Yet the Worlds Final 9 clip on Discraft's site did not show any of Kallstrom's shots in the whole sequence. :o

Thread Drift alert! :) TL+Meteor cross-brand combo > Buzz or Roc.

Look at a lot of peoples bags: 5 Rocs, 1- new for hyzers, 2- used for hyzers to straight shots, 1-Rancho Ontario for pancakes, and 1-beat for turnovers.

Or
1 Buzzz-for any mid shot



Or maybe 1 - Coyote for any mid shot, since the Coyote may have been Innovas answer to the Buzz. Just an opinion.

Now, Discraft, with discs like the Buzzz and Predator (much better discs than Innova counter parts Roc and Firebird)

Nice way to transition from congratulating Discraft sponsored players to advertising a product with an opinion you state as a fact. Innova makes most of my favorite discs but I thought it was very exciting to see Discraft doing so well at these major events. I think it's great that these events have shaken the Innova dominance and I hope it keeps Innova on its toes and other manufacturers hope for the future as well. I think you are doing Discraft a disservice by representing their products that way. Why not let people decide for themselves which plastic they like to throw and simply give congratulations to the phenomenal show of athleticism by all competitors in these events.

Example of paranoia: Note that Innova has no problem indicating Nate is the new Open World Champ on the top of their Home page. Yet the Worlds Final 9 clip on Discraft's site did not show any of Kallstrom's shots in the whole sequence. :o



That reminds me of Brian Sullivan's statement at the USADGC this year. "If your wearing the word Discraft, you stand a better chance of having your picture taken for....."

And there I was in an Innova shirt for the players meeting...lol, oh well!

Go Discraft!!!

BTW, I'm a great fan of Cale and pull for him in all of the events he plays and I have Discraft, Millennium, DGA, Latitude 64 and Innova discs in my current bag. I throw the discs that work best for me for the shots I need to throw.

Now, Discraft, with discs like the Buzzz and Predator (much better discs than Innova counter parts Roc and Firebird)

Nice way to transition from congratulating Discraft sponsored players to advertising a product with an opinion you state as a fact. Innova makes most of my favorite discs but I thought it was very exciting to see Discraft doing so well at these major events. I think it's great that these events have shaken the Innova dominance and I hope it keeps Innova on its toes and other manufacturers hope for the future as well. I think you are doing Discraft a disservice by representing their products that way. Why not let people decide for themselves which plastic they like to throw and simply give congratulations to the phenomenal show of athleticism by all competitors in these events.



I'm not sponsored nor do I have a desire to be sponsored by any disc company.

I used to throw the Buzzz and you can't use just one Buzzz for all midrange shots. Thats rediculous...

I used to throw the Buzzz and you can't use just one Buzzz for all midrange shots. Thats rediculous...



Indeed!!!!

Now, Discraft, with discs like the Buzzz and Predator (much better discs than Innova counter parts Roc and Firebird)

Nice way to transition from congratulating Discraft sponsored players to advertising a product with an opinion you state as a fact. Innova makes most of my favorite discs but I thought it was very exciting to see Discraft doing so well at these major events. I think it's great that these events have shaken the Innova dominance and I hope it keeps Innova on its toes and other manufacturers hope for the future as well. I think you are doing Discraft a disservice by representing their products that way. Why not let people decide for themselves which plastic they like to throw and simply give congratulations to the phenomenal show of athleticism by all competitors in these events.



I'm not sponsored nor do I have a desire to be sponsored by any disc company.

That doesn't have any bearing on my response

ah, sorry I misunderstood.

Can you explain what you meant?

Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

He is a great representative for the company... And is very persuasive.....



Thanks, and for the record, I'm logical, not all that persuasive. :cool:

Example of paranoia: Note that Innova has no problem indicating Nate is the new Open World Champ on the top of their Home page. Yet the Worlds Final 9 clip on Discraft's site did not show any of Kallstrom's shots in the whole sequence. :o




That reminds me of Brian Sullivan's statement at the USADGC this year. "If your wearing the word Discraft, you stand a better chance of having your picture taken for....."

And there I was in an Innova shirt for the players meeting...lol, oh well!



Sad how that does not surprise me. It's very obvious it's all about the business....and not the players....

ah, sorry I misunderstood.

Can you explain what you meant?

Sorry for the confusion. In my initial response I didn't mean to jump on you thinking that you were sponsored by Discraft like you were trying to advertise your own product. I would just rather see people supporting the athletes instead of talking about which products are better.

Which brings me to a side note: I think discgolftv.com has already had a major impact on the sport of disc golf. At least for those whom already play it has provided an opportunity to connect with players from all over the world! I have become a big fan of players like Mike Randolph and Cale Leiviska (among so many others) who are articulate and genuine and have great joy and respect for the sport. Getting to see these players in action and watching interviews has made me a bigger fan of the sport and this is the direction I believe will help the sport continue to grow and be respected.

Edit: HyzerTV also has fantastic coverage of the European championships and I would love to see more professional looking footage of top events just like the EO in which Markus won. Memorable moments include the comment "Jesper the waiter" regarding Jesper Lundmark's fluid putting style and watching Markus "the machine" shed tears after the final putt. (2005 EO i think!)

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!

Wow. MTL sure did bunch up everyone's panties. :D

There's no way you can call it Discraft Dominace, but more of a Discraft Resurgence. Discraft has always had good players, but INNOVA continued to dominate. But this year we've seen Discraft starting to show more life, and come into more of the spotlight.

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"

"No one remembers second place"

Except for second place.

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"


You should ask your boy Schwebbie about that.

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"



This coming from the guy that tells us in his sig about being a 5 time 3rd place finisher!? Fun stuff! :D

So let's see...

the 2 majors thus far...

Worlds - 3 out of final 4 were discraft, winner was discraft.
MSDGC - playoff with 2 discraft players.




No one remembers 2nd place, but they remember 3rd and 4th?........and 2nd?

How can you say no one remembers second place when we're all familiar with Discraft? :eek: :D:p

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"



This coming from the guy that tells us in his sig about being a 5 time 3rd place finisher!? Fun stuff! :D



haha thats a joke referencing all the people that brag about how many wins they have

How can you say no one remembers second place when we're all familiar with Discraft? :eek: :D:p



Ouch! Someone is bleeding somewhere!! Good one Chuck! :D

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!




"No one remembers second place"



This coming from the guy that tells us in his sig about being a 5 time 3rd place finisher!? Fun stuff! :D



haha thats a joke referencing all the people that brag about how many wins they have



No harm man, just a ribbin! Its cool! ;)

Whoops!

How can you say no one remembers second place when we're all familiar with Discraft? :eek: :D:p




CHALK UP ANOTHER ONE FOR CHUCK!! Good one... hahahehe

First and foremost, when did the MSDGC become a major? Last I checked it wasn't even a PDGA sanctioned event. The MSDGC is more like a homegrown event except with a bigger purse. That leaves 1 Major which was held in the upper midwest, real close to Discraft's back yard. And there were quite a few notable Innova players who didn't even attend the event.

Dominance doesn't constitute doing well at 1 event. Sure the Discraft sponsored players had a good showing this year. That makes a total of 2 years since 1990 that Discraft sponsored players have won the open men's world championship. 2 out of 18?? Nah not quite dominace.

If the Discraft folks really want bragging rights there's only one way to achieve that. Go down to Rock Hill and win in Innova's back yard. BTW the most Discraft sponsored players in the top 20 of any USDGC is at 4 or 5 I believe. With 0 wins.

For the record huge props to Nate for holding on and getting #2. Also I have no ties to Innova or Discraft any longer so my opinion is my own.

I'll probably pay for that one down the road when I need something from Pad or Sully but the set up on this thread was just too good. After all, we know Discraft is the World Leader in Disc Sports because it says so on their website. I just had this devilish streak after catering to Worlds sponsors for the past year.

ooops my bad I forgot about Ron. That makes 3 outta 18. At least they're closing the gap since I last posted.

Good thing I didn't bring up the open women's division or the master's division either. Not sure the last time a Discraft player won one of those.

Was Cam with Innova or Discraft at the time he won?

Was Cam with Innova or Discraft at the time he won?



innova

Good thing I didn't bring up the open women's division



There's a lady golfer known as Julianna won quite a few for Circle D ;).....oh, and Miss Elaine King is a 5xer if im not mistaken. :p

What amazes me is the people that actually give a [censored] what brand Ken, Cale, Avery or Nate throw. Some seem to be taken back or act like this is an afront to your manhood if your brand is questioned. If you give Ken Cale's Disc's he is still going to kick everyone's <font color="blue"> [profanity deleted] </font> that posts on this boards 10 time out of 10 (with the exception of Schwebby) as would Cale if you give him Ken' s discs.

I used to throw the Buzzz and you can't use just one Buzzz for all midrange shots. Thats rediculous...



tell that to Cale.

out of all the times I throw a midrange, its 80%+ Buzz(only 1 in bag)

If there's water or trees on the course, you still might want to carry more than one...

a disc is a disc.....just learn to throw better



New players see what the world champ throws and buy it instinctively. Often times when it's a bad disc for them.

The first disc I ever bought in 1989 was the one the Innova literature at the sporting goods store said was thrown by the World Distance Champ. It was a 195g Phenix, perfect for a beginner...

(They didn't say he threw a 165g version for the record)

my response to mainly moolie and rick b...

this thread is NOT about the past. its not about what people throw. Other than saying I thought a buzzz was better than a roc, the main point and all I have posted is about how discraft started signing younger up and comers a few years back and is now really starting to reap the benifits of doing so .

This thread is about how I feel Discraft is just starting to emerge ( with evidence on winning 2 of the last 3 worlds and now MSDGC) and preparing to explode into the same catagory Innova has been in since the beginning.

If I honestly thought that Discraft had the premier players right now, had inferiour plastic or anything like that then that would just be dumb....this is all about the future and what I thought. Perhaps the thread was given a misnomer...

First and foremost, when did the MSDGC become a major? Last I checked it wasn't even a PDGA sanctioned event. The MSDGC is more like a homegrown event except with a bigger purse. That leaves 1 Major which was held in the upper midwest, real close to Discraft's back yard. And there were quite a few notable Innova players who didn't even attend the event.



LOL wow.

You really should ask all those NC players what makes this tournament a major. I would be willing to bet it has a staff greater than any NT event(probably by 2x), had the best FPO payout in THE HISTORY OF DISC GOLF, tons of sponsors and promotion. Its extremely professionally run, more so than any NT or A tier event I have ever played/heard of.

this year the MSDGC had a payout comparable to a worlds. The winner of womens open won over 2k, a first in disc golf(with only 15 FPO players)




Dominance doesn't constitute doing well at 1 event. Sure the Discraft sponsored players had a good showing this year. That makes a total of 2 years since 1990 that Discraft sponsored players have won the open men's world championship. 2 out of 18?? Nah not quite dominace.
.



check out those worlds results from the 90's. Who was right behind kenny? Russel, Stokely, Randolf. take out Kenny, and its 3 and 3(Nate 2x and Ron).

MTL

I was more going with the Archer not the Arrow. I thought you had a nice post that would stir things up. It just amazes me that people that have no affiliation with a brand are so wrapped up in it that they read more into what your post was then what I believe your intention was.

Discraft is #1 in disc sports (Ultimate)

do you expect Discraft to dominate the top 10 rated disc golf players?

do you expect Discraft to dominate the USDGC?

how did Discraft do in the Pro World divisions other than Open?


PDGA Player Ratings
Pro Men | Pro Women | Am Men | Am Women

Pro Men - Player Ratings
1 thru 10 (of 2502 current members) | Next 50 &gt;&gt;
Player Name PDGA# State Country Rating Division
Ken Climo 4297 FL USA 1039 M Pro
Jesper Lundmark 15239 Sweden 1033 M Pro
Darrell Nodland 7225 ND USA 1031 M Pro
Nathan Doss 11794 CA USA 1031 M Pro
Micah Dorius 14609 CA USA 1030 M Pro
David Feldberg 12626 OR USA 1030 M Pro
Steve Rico 4666 CA USA 1030 M Pro
Josh Anthon 17946 CA USA 1030 M Pro
Barry Schultz 6840 WI USA 1029 M Pro
Avery Jenkins 7495 OR USA 1029 M Pro

one last question:

do you expect Climo, Schultz, Hatfield, Tannock and Reading to switch to Discraft? :eek: :o :p /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"



This coming from the guy that tells us in his sig about being a 5 time 3rd place finisher!? Fun stuff! :D



haha thats a joke referencing all the people that brag about how many wins they have



Tiger Woods

" no one remebers second because 2nd place is the first loser"

I used to throw the Buzzz and you can't use just one Buzzz for all midrange shots. Thats rediculous...



tell that to Cale.

out of all the times I throw a midrange, its 80%+ Buzz(only 1 in bag)




Why don't you ask Cale to take the Drone out of his bag....

Look at a lot of peoples bags: 5 Rocs, 1- new for hyzers, 2- used for hyzers to straight shots, 1-Rancho Ontario for pancakes, and 1-beat for turnovers.

Or
1 Buzzz-for any mid shot




I know people that throw the buzzz and for that matter throw nothing but Discraft and they would disagree with that statement "1 Buzzz-for any mid shot".

They have new, slighty-beat and beat Buzzz in there bag also.

So the 1 buzzz is a far cry there Mr. Smoooth...



It's great how disc-nerds always feel they have to 'set people straight'.
I know people carry more than one Buzzz.......I was being sarcastic. I carry 14 Buzzzes myself. Along with 12 Destroyers, 7 Cros and I wear Bite shoes because Kenny does and he is good. (Plus Kenny carries 5 Rocs too!)

Let the whining commence!

Before you all start writing off Innova - a little reality check, from a quick look at the tourney results:

2007 SuperTour (A-Tier or above tourneys).

Innova Sponsored Players: 24 wins

Discraft: 8 wins

Gateway: 4 wins





Hey Darrel,
Thanks for mentioning that Gateway also makes discs that players are using to win at the highest level!
I know Justin has 3 A tier wins alone and I thought Johnny had more than 1 this year!

Gateway also sponsors many players who are rated below 1000 and we even sponsor many ams, which is proving to be quite successful for us as well.


BTW,
I'm pretty sure its not going to take 15 years before these numbers are closer to equal :D:D:cool:

I throw discraft and this is why I think they are better. Consistency. you can buy the same mold that you bought last year or years previous. Number two, I throw the same disc as Nate Doss, and the others.
The other company has retooled ontario, san marino, 8 time, rare disc that the average player does not have access to. I recently looked in a touring innova players bag and did not see one standard star, champion, or dx disc that his company makes.
Some people love to pay 30 or more dollars for a putter but you know what, Im never paying more than 15 to 17 dollars for my putter. It will be the same, says the owner.
Wouldnt you want the representatives of your company to throw your products, especially the ones you want the average thrower to buy?
I quit buying innova when the ce line went under. Tom Monroe told me its cause the plastic injected into those disc was mainly used for a storage bin company that went out of business.
I dont have time to cruise ebay and wait around to get the disc that I love to play with. I can just buy one down the street

The reason I quit throwing INNOVA and switched to Gateway was also the consisteny factor. I could pick up one 172g Champ TeeBird and get a nice S curve on the first throw. Buy another 172g Champ TeeBird and on the same throw it would be major stable. Granted, INNOVA still makes good discs and I do love Champ TeeBirds, as well as the Cro and JK Aviars but with my Gateway products I can pick up multiple discs from multiple years and runs and they still fly the same. It's all about what a player feels most comfortable and confident with, whether it be INNOVA, Discraft or Gateway.

The reason I quit throwing INNOVA and switched to Gateway was also the consisteny factor. I could pick up one 172g Champ TeeBird and get a nice S curve on the first throw. Buy another 172g Champ TeeBird and on the same throw it would be major stable. Granted, INNOVA still makes good discs and I do love Champ TeeBirds, as well as the Cro and JK Aviars but with my Gateway products I can pick up multiple discs from multiple years and runs and they still fly the same. It's all about what a player feels most comfortable and confident with, whether it be INNOVA, Discraft or Gateway.



As long as you can find the same run of plastic. I've been looking for the flat gummy demons for about 8 years. every color seemes to be different. its no biggie to me. I like that they play around with different blends, just wish they had there standard S and E every run, then had there fun stuff.

If there were no sponsorships from manufacturers, does anybody think the top players would still throw only one brand?

Each company makes great discs, why would you limit yourself to just one?

Taking out Rico, the top twenty at worlds included 6 Discraft and 14 Innova sponsered players. Now that's what I call Discraft Dominance!!!!



"No one remembers second place"


You should ask your boy Schwebbie about that.

Thanks I have several to remember

If there were no sponsorships from manufacturers, does anybody think the top players would still throw only one brand?




I think you would see most players throwing something like this...

Firebird
Wraith
Teebird
Roc
Buzzz
Wizard

sure, most top players are going to say "well I will throw what I throw now" but once they got to experimenting....

Each company makes great discs, why would you limit yourself to just one?



I agree. I have at least one disc from maybe 6-7 disc companies in my bag.

Now before you say something,... I'm average joe with a twist of Old School. Not expecting any sponsorship deals in the future. I try most discs and sort the ones out that don't cut the mustard. I've had my Gumby since 1986. That mustard is always good! :D

Now if we talk minis,... Bring it on !!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I throw discraft and this is why I think they are better. Consistency. you can buy the same mold that you bought last year or years previous. Number two, I throw the same disc as Nate Doss, and the others.
The other company has retooled ontario, san marino, 8 time, rare disc that the average player does not have access to. I recently looked in a touring innova players bag and did not see one standard star, champion, or dx disc that his company makes.
Some people love to pay 30 or more dollars for a putter but you know what, Im never paying more than 15 to 17 dollars for my putter. It will be the same, says the owner.
Wouldnt you want the representatives of your company to throw your products, especially the ones you want the average thrower to buy?
I quit buying innova when the ce line went under. Tom Monroe told me its cause the plastic injected into those disc was mainly used for a storage bin company that went out of business.
I dont have time to cruise ebay and wait around to get the disc that I love to play with. I can just buy one down the street



That is a great point and one I hear more and more. I was at a tourney this weekend and the old discs were going for $100 bucks on some. It was an auction and all the stuff was innova except and old Buzzz. It only went for $25 and it goes to show you Discraft is so consistent now, the old stuff just isn't worth the big dollars. Check out Ebay sometime, how many old Discraft discs will you see? Not many....what a great problem to have!

What amazes me is the people that actually give a [censored] what brand Ken, Cale, Avery or Nate throw. Some seem to be taken back or act like this is an afront to your manhood if your brand is questioned. If you give Ken Cale's Disc's he is still going to kick everyone's ***** that posts on this boards 10 time out of 10 (with the exception of Schwebby) as would Cale if you give him Ken' s discs.



Its called marketing and advertising ... and it works. Just ask Nike, sign the best player, get them to use your gear, and you are instantly a player in the market.

I had always thrown some of each, but recently started throwing mostly discraft after the replacement cost of my bag was approaching $1000. I'd much rather have 6 Pro D challengers for the cost of 1 new 10X Aviar.
Also the inconsistency from disc to disc was also a big factor. Sure, I can throw a wraith/teerex 400+, but will it go where I aim it every time? I'd rather throw a beat Z pred 350 and know exactly where it will end up.

I think your guys' argument that Innova's old discs going for so much money isn't an argument against Innova. If anything, it shows that Innova has so many disc fanatics that people are willing to throw down some serious cash on a vintage Innova disc. People have grown to love the discs Innova makes. You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova. I like some Discraft discs, but when I first started playing, everyone was throwing Innova because they've been consistent for a long time where I think now, Discraft is starting to rise up closer to Innova.

You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Discraft-Disc-Golf-R...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Discraft-Disc-Golf-RARE-1st-Run-BUZZ_W0QQitemZ180151318886QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Discraft-Disc-Golf-R...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Discraft-Disc-Golf-RARE-1st-Run-BUZZ_W0QQitemZ180151318886QQihZ008QQcategoryZ20851 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)



WEAK SAUCE!!!!! :eek: :p :p :D

I think your guys' argument that Innova's old discs going for so much money isn't an argument against Innova. If anything, it shows that Innova has so many disc fanatics that people are willing to throw down some serious cash on a vintage Innova disc. People have grown to love the discs Innova makes. You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova. I like some Discraft discs, but when I first started playing, everyone was throwing Innova because they've been consistent for a long time where I think now, Discraft is starting to rise up closer to Innova.



The reason for this is due to the fact that Innova's focus has been disc golf years before it was Discraft's (their's was ultimate and freestyle). There is just simply more Innova disc's in production and more runs and styles for many more years. Every mold seems different to me so its easy to get stuck on an old run b/c they switch so much. I also wonder how many Discraft pros there were when Ken started winning championships??

And I do know a lot of people that go crazy over the old chalky X plastic(XL, X2, and X-Clone) as well as 1st run Crushes, Buzz, and Flicks

a disc is a disc.....just learn to throw better



Amen Brother

It just sucks that Innova was there when other were into freestyle and ultimate and had discs designed to play disc golf. And it also sucks that innova changes and improves their line of disc golf equipment in efforts to give disc golfer's the best equipment to use on the course. Boo Innova for being there And Cheers for Discraft for nothing!

Shut up booooTang. :D

LOL! Bring your washed up arse to the Mighty Z :p

:eek:!

ZB's ace pot is too small. Vet's $750 ace is about to start growing! :D

:eek:!

ZB's ace pot is too small. Vet's $750 ace is about to start growing! :D



I'm gonna have to make a trip back to the VET!! :p

I hear another split. Make sure it's not your first throw of the day this time. :D

Oh snap! Time for the drive at 5. Later.

Tizzle I'm confused. If this thread is not about the past or what people throw then why the title "Discraft Dominance"? Since what people throw is of no importance then we should call it simply "Dominance". However Nate's win is in the past which makes that point irrelevant.

Maybe the correct title for the thread should have been " A Changing of the Guard" Seeing as younger players, sponsored by Innova, Discraft and Gateway, are all starting to make an impact. Nate, Cale, Double G, Valerie, Matt Orum etc...

This isn't about one companies good fortune through a couple of events. It's about exciting possibilities. I for one love seeing new blood win the big events. Although there is no denying what Climo has accomplished, the past 8 to 9 years of Worlds has been real exciting with a number of new champions. It's the same reason I watch the other golf. I love seeing someone win other than Tiger.

Competition wise this is the most exciting Disc Golf has ever been.

. It's the same reason I watch the other golf. I love seeing someone win other than Tiger.






LOL.

All I know is AO and Cale are rocking Iron Lion / Hippiegolfwear.com dyes, and Im thankful for it!

I hope Discraft players win every tourney out there, as that means they are playing the best golf.

Its the Archer.

And 1 more funny observation before I go.
A $35 1st run Z Buzzz?????
$35 wouldn't even cover the sales tax on a 1st run Clear 01 ROC. Not sure where the relevance was in that post.

Its the Archer.



Amen.

And 1 more funny observation before I go.
A $35 1st run Z Buzzz?????
$35 wouldn't even cover the sales tax on a 1st run Clear 01 ROC. Not sure where the relevance was in that post.


Thene delete the post!!

Tizzle I'm confused. If this thread is not about the past or what people throw then why the title "Discraft Dominance"?





The last post of a previous post of mine...



Perhaps the thread was given a misnomer...

I think your guys' argument that Innova's old discs going for so much money isn't an argument against Innova. If anything, it shows that Innova has so many disc fanatics that people are willing to throw down some serious cash on a vintage Innova disc. People have grown to love the discs Innova makes. You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova. I like some Discraft discs, but when I first started playing, everyone was throwing Innova because they've been consistent for a long time where I think now, Discraft is starting to rise up closer to Innova.



That is incorrect.........People are wild for old Innova plastic because Innova just doesnt make them like they used to.......CE Plastic is what im getting at........People pay that much money for the old stuff because its what they know and love and Innova doesnt make it anymore......Its not cuz they are disc fanatics or anything of the sort.........Its because its been in the bag forevery and they cant find anything that Innova produces now that flies or holds up like the old stuff.........Discraft on the other hand makes a very consistant product which is why there are only a few discs that people search for......1st Run BUZZZs........1st Run Magnets.......Chalky Cyclones and maybe a few other but all in all if you throw anything from Discraft you can pick one up from 5-10 years ago or from 5-10 days ago and they will fly just about the same as long as the plastics are they same. Heck the only Discraft disc I stocked up on were 1st Run BUZZZs and thats cuz I loved them when the BUZZZ came out.......I have enough to last me forever and I wouldnt even think about buying another at the price they seem to be going for now.

The bottom line is..........If your good enough you can throw ANYTHING!!!.......(well maybe not Lightning :eek:)

All the great players in the world could switch discs and in about a week be just as good as they were with the other stuff its all just a matter of choice/sponsorship!!!

All I know is AO and Cale are rocking Iron Lion / Hippiegolfwear.com dyes, and Im thankful for it!

I hope Discraft players win every tourney out there, as that means they are playing the best golf.

Its the Archer.



NICE!!!!!

On the 9 pages I saw nobody mention the Avenger. A less stable Predator and over time flies like a longer/faster Teebird. It is money and I have turned other Discraft players onto it.

What amazes me is the people that actually give a [censored] what brand Ken, Cale, Avery or Nate throw. Some seem to be taken back or act like this is an afront to your manhood if your brand is questioned. If you give Ken Cale's Disc's he is still going to kick everyone's <font color="blue"> [profanity deleted] </font> that posts on this boards 10 time out of 10 (with the exception of Schwebby) as would Cale if you give him Ken' s discs.



FYI, Cale has only lost 2 playoffs in his career, Both to Innova's Kenny's!

http://pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6838#Open

http://pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6434#Open

Long Live the Tee-Rex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

If there were no sponsorships from manufacturers, does anybody think the top players would still throw only one brand?




I think you would see most players throwing something like this...

Firebird
Wraith
Teebird
Roc
Buzzz
Wizard






The Millenium QMS preceded the Buzzz and is a better disc. Yeah Millenium is made by Innova, but still ... :p

I think your guys' argument that Innova's old discs going for so much money isn't an argument against Innova. If anything, it shows that Innova has so many disc fanatics that people are willing to throw down some serious cash on a vintage Innova disc. People have grown to love the discs Innova makes. You don't see that with Discraft because their audience aren't disc fanatics like Innova. I like some Discraft discs, but when I first started playing, everyone was throwing Innova because they've been consistent for a long time where I think now, Discraft is starting to rise up closer to Innova.



That is incorrect.........People are wild for old Innova plastic because Innova just doesnt make them like they used to.......CE Plastic is what im getting at........People pay that much money for the old stuff because its what they know and love and Innova doesnt make it anymore......Its not cuz they are disc fanatics or anything of the sort.........Its because its been in the bag forevery and they cant find anything that Innova produces now that flies or holds up like the old stuff.........Discraft on the other hand makes a very consistant product which is why there are only a few discs that people search for......1st Run BUZZZs........1st Run Magnets.......Chalky Cyclones and maybe a few other but all in all if you throw anything from Discraft you can pick one up from 5-10 years ago or from 5-10 days ago and they will fly just about the same as long as the plastics are they same. Heck the only Discraft disc I stocked up on were 1st Run BUZZZs and thats cuz I loved them when the BUZZZ came out.......I have enough to last me forever and I wouldnt even think about buying another at the price they seem to be going for now.

The bottom line is..........If your good enough you can throw ANYTHING!!!.......(well maybe not Lightning :eek:)

All the great players in the world could switch discs and in about a week be just as good as they were with the other stuff its all just a matter of choice/sponsorship!!!




Jeez Millz. You must be getting smarter, cuz I totally agree with your post.

I do think its a little more than consistency, however. Innova is just the only company thats plastic is worth much to the general collector, mainly fueled by what they learn on Ebay. Even some of the older Gateway discs are getting premiums.

[/QUOTE]

That is incorrect.........People are wild for old Innova plastic because Innova just doesnt make them like they used to.......CE Plastic is what im getting at........People pay that much money for the old stuff because its what they know and love and Innova doesnt make it anymore......Its not cuz they are disc fanatics or anything of the sort.........Its because its been in the bag forevery and they cant find anything that Innova produces now that flies or holds up like the old stuff.........Discraft on the other hand makes a very consistant product which is why there are only a few discs that people search for......1st Run BUZZZs........1st Run Magnets.......Chalky Cyclones and maybe a few other but all in all if you throw anything from Discraft you can pick one up from 5-10 years ago or from 5-10 days ago and they will fly just about the same as long as the plastics are they same. Heck the only Discraft disc I stocked up on were 1st Run BUZZZs and thats cuz I loved them when the BUZZZ came out.......I have enough to last me forever and I wouldnt even think about buying another at the price they seem to be going for now.



[/QUOTE]

False and False. There may some that buy old Innova for premium prices to have throwing stock, but after dealing on Ebay for as long as I can remember most of the folks I sold to paid premium for thier perceived collectible value. Now this may come as a shock but there are disc golfers out there with alot of disposable income. I also know there are some who shudder at spending a mere $25 for a disc. Neither side is wrong.

As for the statement that Discraft discs have remained consistant whether you bought them 5 years ago or one you picked up 5 minutes is absolutely ridiculous. It's ok Mills I know you have to jump on the sponsor bandwagon. It's expected of you. But if they're so consistant then why premium pricing for 1st run Z Buzzzes. Or for that matter why premium pricing for the powder Cyclones, Comets, Stratus, MRV etc. or why higher prices paid for certain colored discs from the same run?? And don't get me started on Discraft's packing technique, the reason Innova now uses those little stickers.

Each company has inconsistancies in thier runs. Innova's may be more pronounced due to the simple fact they sell 20 times the number of golf discs that Discraft does. But most of the so called inconsistancies comes from the players. There is but a very small handful of folks in this world that can throw the exact same shot repeatedly. So until someone forks up enough dough to create a throwing machine and put it in a lab with controlled conditions then it will never be known just who has the most inconsistant discs.

As for the statement that Discraft discs have remained consistant whether you bought them 5 years ago or one you picked up 5 minutes is absolutely ridiculous. It's ok Mills I know you have to jump on the sponsor bandwagon. It's expected of you. But if they're so consistant then why premium pricing for 1st run Z Buzzzes. Or for that matter why premium pricing for the powder Cyclones, Comets, Stratus, MRV etc. or why higher prices paid for certain colored discs from the same run?? And don't get me started on Discraft's packing technique, the reason Innova now uses those little stickers.




What are you concidering premium prices??? The only thing I know people are paying premium prices for is 1st Run BUZZZs and they arent even doing that anymore because of the 2nd 1st Runs..........And 80 Dollars for a 1st Run Z BUZZZ is hardly premium when you see 01 CE Rocs going for 300 plus and that just the ones that ANYONE could have picked up......Not to mention the Clear 01 ZoneDriven Rocs or any other special CE Rocs they put out in 01........And dont even get me started on CE Valks, Teebirds and Firebirds.........Or for that matter 8 9 and 10 Time KC Rocs or the old Ontario Rocs or San Marino Rocs..........I could go on for days and if you look at what people are looking for from Discraft they arent spending much and the list may be 5-10 Discs long.

And as far as collection value goes you can only get what someone is willing to pay and I really dont see a future in collecting discs!!! Discs are meant to fly and anyone collecting them and hanging them on walls in doing the discs a great injustice in my opinion............. Although I could be wrong.

there is def. some inconsistency in discraft....

A first run crush is no where near as stable as a normal Z crush.

I have a Z wildcat that is like a Teebird / Eagle for me, however, most wildcats fly like leopards

there is def. some inconsistency in discraft....

A first run crush is no where near as stable as a normal Z crush.

I have a Z wildcat that is like a Teebird / Eagle for me, however, most wildcats fly like leopards



I would have to say the Discraft Crush is like the Innova Valk.......You never know what your going to get!!! Oh and I would have to say the Wildcat is much faster than a Leopard!!!

I love when people are hipocrites and dont even know it.

Hey Steve Mills, you're a retard...

Innova fanatics drop that money on discs because of collector's value...everyone else is saying that and its true. I wouldn't buy a 2001 CE Roc for $300 and then throw it. Some people just like collecting stuff. You don't see that with Discraft because they don't have a huge following like Innova....hmmm, I wonder why? Because Innova has been making quality discs longer.

Mills, maybe if you switched to Innova you might get closer to a 1000 rating... :P

If more people are collecting discs from a manufacturer than throwing them, who would that mean is making more discs useful for playing the game?

Innova fanatics drop that money on discs because of collector's value...everyone else is saying that and its true. I wouldn't buy a 2001 CE Roc for $300 and then throw it. Some people just like collecting stuff. You don't see that with Discraft because they don't have a huge following like Innova....hmmm, I wonder why? Because Innova has been making quality discs longer.

Mills, maybe if you switched to Innova you might get closer to a 1000 rating... :P



last I checked, discs were made to be thrown, not kept in a box, or on a wall. your statement has to the the dumbest thing Ive read on here in a long time.

lets say just for an example innova makes these amazing discs, that blows Discraft away. however they stop making them soon after, and there were never enough of the popular molds to satisfy market demand, hence creating an instant collectors market for them.

meanwhile Discraft keeps on making the same thing, while possibly not as good as some of the Innova products that have come out, at least is plenty to satisfy demand, and a consistent product.

(if you can't figure out what I am talking about, plz quit posting forever)

People buy 1st Run Buzzz for 70$ because they hope they turn out like '01 Rocs.

Inconsistencies and variants between runs are appealing to the people that throw them, and they are willing to pay for it. They are also willing to pay a hefty prmium for a disc that will never be made again, like CE plastic runs.

They are the best discs Innova has ever released. Others can perform on the same level, but Ive never used a disc since the first few runs of CE that actually got better the more it was beat. Since CE went away, I actually go through discs alot faster, as they get crappy when they age.

I think the biggest thing is that most were made and thrown, so the huge premiums on unused CE plastic is because of the lack of unused discs out there.

I love when people are hipocrites and dont even know it.




I think intent is involved in being a hipocrite(intent in making claims or statements of ones beliefs and then intentionally making statements that are contrary to those beliefs)

... Unless... One has simply taken the "Hipocritus Oath" and then subsequently forgot about such oath.

Hey Steve Mills, you're a retard...

Innova fanatics drop that money on discs because of collector's value...everyone else is saying that and its true. I wouldn't buy a 2001 CE Roc for $300 and then throw it. Some people just like collecting stuff. You don't see that with Discraft because they don't have a huge following like Innova....hmmm, I wonder why? Because Innova has been making quality discs longer.

Mills, maybe if you switched to Innova you might get closer to a 1000 rating... :P



Taylor, haven't you been playing disc golf for like five minutes? :D

an opinion you state as a fact.

[/QUOTE]
lets say just for an example innova makes these amazing discs, that blows Discraft away. however they stop making them soon after, and there were never enough of the popular molds to satisfy market demand, hence creating an instant collectors market for them.

meanwhile Discraft keeps on making the same thing, while possibly not as good as some of the Innova products that have come out, at least is plenty to satisfy demand, and a consistent product.

[/QUOTE]



Help me better explain all of this for me people...

Innova was manufacturing before discraft, gateway, dga etc.... was lightening before innova? I can't remember.

If that is true that Innova was the first then that would make just about every disc made after Innova created it was basically a clone version of a Innova disc already made correct?

Yeah I'm sure they studied the Innova disc and tweak it and shaped it slightly different and then called it its own correct??

I do know all the manufactures out there owe respect to Dave D from Innova for creating the beveled edge disc. I hope I got that right.


Now back to the real topic.....
Yes sponsored players from Discraft are definitely stepping up making a big showing.

Josh

last I checked, discs were made to be thrown, not kept in a box, or on a wall. your statement has to the the dumbest thing Ive read on here in a long time.




There are lots of people that collect discs. Whether you think they should or not, there are lots that do.

Hey Steve Mills, you're a retard...

Innova fanatics drop that money on discs because of collector's value...everyone else is saying that and its true. I wouldn't buy a 2001 CE Roc for $300 and then throw it. Some people just like collecting stuff. You don't see that with Discraft because they don't have a huge following like Innova....hmmm, I wonder why? Because Innova has been making quality discs longer.

Mills, maybe if you switched to Innova you might get closer to a 1000 rating... :P



Taylor, haven't you been playing disc golf for like five minutes? :D



:eek:

keep em' coming, this is entertaining...

People buy 1st Run Buzzz for 70$ because they hope they turn out like '01 Rocs.





but they are being thrown, lots of serious players are accumulating them for replacements to throw in the future, not to ebay in 2 years.

for anyone interested in discussing quality/consitency of disc production you should search and read some of Dave McCormacks posts. he posted some in detail info in the past about what goes into making a disc, and what can affect the disc that is being produced

Still looking for Innova putters in your other thread?

Still looking for Innova putters in your other thread?



if they are white, DX or KC, and super beat, always!

[quoteInnova was manufacturing before discraft, gateway, dga etc.... was lightening before innova? I can't remember.

[/QUOTE]

DGA was making golf discs before Innova, Night Flyer, Midnight Flyer, Kitty Hawks. Just not beveled edged discs.

Discraft was making Floater / Ultimate frisbee's before Innova. Then joined in with the Phantom at the '85 Worlds.

Lightning got in same year as Innova with the P38, shortly after the Eagle was released by Innova.

Not really the thread for this question, but it sounds like you might know. Is this type of history part of the hall of fame, or in a book with pictures somewhere. You know, like a timeline of the evolution of disc golf discs.

People buy 1st Run Buzzz for 70$ because they hope they turn out like '01 Rocs.


NOPE! we buy them cuz they fly like first run BUZZZ's. how another disc flies has nuttin to do with it.

Is there an end in sight for this debate?

Talk about thread drift!!!

Congrats Team Discraft on the recent wins!!
As far as discs go, throw what you like...throw what works well for you. If you don't like the Roc.....DON'T throw it...likewise, if you don't like the Buzzz.....DON'T throw it either. To each their own.
OK, I'll get off my soap box.

Seacrest Out!

I collect discs and deal a lot on E-bay and will save or sell the high priced discs rather than throw them with very few exceptions. One of the main exceptions is my 1st run Buzzzs. I have 4 that are my throwing stock. I started throwing them when they were first made as an alternative to the excessively expensive ROCs. We became friends and I have come to depend on them for the majority of my mid-range shots. They hold a line beautifully and are consistent enough to be interchangable. (I sold a brand new one at the 07 Am Worlds for $60 btb). My bag also has 2 Champ Whippetts inside. These guys shot up in value after I got to be friends with them. My go to STRONG wind disc and also a short forehand flick shot. The strangest thing about my bag is the intermingling of manufacturers. All my drivers are Innova (kudos to Mr. Dunipace), my midrange are all Discraft and I putt with Gateway Wizards. This was not planned but evolved over the years. I throw what works and have no more love for one manufacturer over another. In conclusion I gotta rave about the Drone and Stratus....2 magic discs....If you ain't tried em you are missing out.....

People buy 1st Run Buzzz for 70$ because they hope they turn out like '01 Rocs.


NOPE! we buy them cuz they fly like first run BUZZZ's. how another disc flies has nuttin to do with it.



I think he meant they will turn out like 01's and skyrocket in value, not fly like 01's.

keep em' coming, this is entertaining...



So is this, written by Scott Stokely:


(Originally, my personal disc golf sponsorship history was phrased a bit differently. Upon receipt of an email stating that a portion of this page sounded somewhat harsh, I rephrased some of it. I was unaware that it could be taken badly, but respect the opinion of the person who first pointed this out. This page is not and was not an attack on Innova, it is simply the facts of my sponsorship history.)

I get asked often, "Why do you throw Discraft golf discs?" In fact, I've answered that question so many times that I figured I could just give a short history here so that the next time I'm asked I can say, "Visit my website at..."

Back in 1992 I was sponsored by Innova Champion Discs. I think at that time they were doing a great job and had taken the lead in the golf disc market. I was an up and coming pro and they gave me a little support for my first few years on tour.

However, somewhere around 1994, for some unexplained reason they changed from a really good plastic in their discs to a really hard to grip, not so durable variety. My (and most other players at that time) guess was that they were saving a lot of money with the cheaper plastic and let's face it, less than 1% of the market is the touring pro. I'm not faulting them for making a business decision that increased their profits (I believe that capitalism is what makes this country great!), but it did make things difficult for professional disc golfers.

I have very vivid memories of the Fly-Mart at the 1994 PDGA World Championships where players were paying as much as $50 for discs that were made just a year before because the new plastic would not allow players to compete well. Unfortunately for me, with the training regimen I had set up for myself I was going through discs at an amazing rate. It got very expensive very quickly!

Right around that time, Jim Kenner at Discraft released the Cyclone and X-Clone in what is now referred to as the "Cyclone Plastic." This was a revolutionary breakthrough in disc technology.

As frustrated as I was with the cheaper, less effective plastic I was using, I still finished out the year because I thought it was the right thing to do. The following spring (I always take the winter off to let my body recover), I called Discraft and told them that I was interested in trying some of their discs. A box of 50 free discs showed up at my house the next day with a note that said there was no commitment needed from me. Just try them out and see what I think.

The following day I went out with Mike Randolph and threw them around for a while. He was already sponsored by Discraft and he asked me what I thought. The first thing I said was, "I'm going to set the World Distance Record with the X-Clone" (which I did 1 month later!).

I called Jim that morning and told him that I loved the discs, wanted to be sponsored by Discraft, and was going to set a record but I had one concern. That was the recent problem of the Innova plastic becoming difficult to handle and diminishing players' competitive edge. He said, (I'm going to paraphrase here) "I will always do everything I can to ensure that the discs players learn and use today will be the same in the future. Player loyalty comes before anything else!"

The quality of Discraft discs and the plastic that they use has never wavered, so I guess Jim was telling the truth.

Now that I've been with Discraft for a while and have learned a lot of the behind the scenes politics, I can say with certainty that I will always throw Discraft discs. I have 100% confidence that Discraft will continue to help support their sponsored players and up-and-coming professional disc golfers with their consistent, effective plastic. For these and more reasons, I believe Discraft will sit on top for a very long time.

I hope this didn't sound like a commercial. I'm not sure how else to tell the story because this is exactly what happened and how I feel. I respect the competition for a lot of what they've done, but there are a lot of other things that I don't respect at all. For example, Innova diminishing the disc quality at the expense of the pro disc golfer's game. I really do believe that not only does Discraft make the best discs, but they are by far the best people because they care about their players and the sport of disc golf as a whole. They ask what players need and try to provide the highest quality plastic for the pro and the recreational player to enjoy and utilize effectively even with a more expensive plastic.

The choice for me was really no choice at all!

Scott Stokely

Not really the thread for this question, but it sounds like you might know. Is this type of history part of the hall of fame, or in a book with pictures somewhere. You know, like a timeline of the evolution of disc golf discs.



You might be able to get some of this info from the PDGA approved list of discs, I believe they have dates to when the disc was approved.

S Johnson has been working on a book for disc golf discs for the past few years. Not sure when / if he will ever publish.

I go off memory, or old Dicovering the World catalogs to know when disc's were released.

Amen brotha Stokely...too bad the guy blew out his elbow. I still see him on his back porch on a hole at a local course here in town. He has never even heard of a surge or Wraith. Wonder what the distance record would be if he was healthy...

I believe the owner of discraft set up a booth at one of the worlds in Huntsville Alabama, either 83 or 93. The old pros were telling me that if you could take his new disc and break it on the brick wall 50 feet away he would give you a stack of them. Apparently no one could.
You see thats what I noticed when I first started playing in 99. the discraft disc were a dollar or two more but better quality. I think the first disccraft disc was "candy plastic"
For a ultimate frisbee company, they knew what they were doing!

I started selling discs as a business in 2001. I contacted the different manufacturers to arrange purchasing mass quantities of discs. Discraft responded to my e-mail within 1/2 hour with a price list and related info. Innova had my fill out an EXTENSIVE survey concerning my contributions to the sport. After a month I had not heard from Innova and repeated my request. 1 month later and still nothing from Innova. I finally got a response about a month later after aggressively pursuing communication with them only to be told I did not qualify to buy from them.....

That may be true but I've talked to former Discraft players and have heard some different stories. Like asking for a few discs and them never showing up. Or if they did show up(months later), they were the wrong weight or mostly factory seconds.

That may be true but I've talked to former Discraft players and have heard some different stories. Like asking for a few discs and them never showing up. Or if they did show up(months later), they were the wrong weight or mostly factory seconds.



I'm sure mistakes happen. I for one have had no troubles for 6 years. ;)

I had a destroyer before schweby did. I'm a no name in oklahoma

Innova worries about making money....Discraft worries about producing a quality product and giving it to who wants it. Innova only sells discs to certain retailers...I have a good friend that works at the Wright Life and he says that about twenty stores in CO have to purchase Innova discs through them b/c Innova won't make enough off the smaller shops, and therefore refuses to sell to them. But I can go to Sports Authority, a huge corporation, and buy some Innova starter set and a bunch of D plastic.


It is very obvious which company cares about profits, and which cares about quality

That may be true but I've talked to former Discraft players and have heard some different stories. Like asking for a few discs and them never showing up. Or if they did show up(months later), they were the wrong weight or mostly factory seconds.




I'm sure mistakes happen. I for one have had no troubles for 6 years. ;)



Ditto...my discs are at my door within a day or two at most!

I had a destroyer before schweby did. I'm a no name in oklahoma

I got mine 2 days after asking for one

That may be true but I've talked to former Discraft players and have heard some different stories. Like asking for a few discs and them never showing up. Or if they did show up(months later), they were the wrong weight or mostly factory seconds.



That has never happened to me. I put in orders and within several days their products are at my home. Discraft treats their player's great and you could have seen this at worlds. All the free polos and clothing, beer, food, and discs we could have. I over heard several Innova members said they would have enjoyed being treated as well as we were. You probably got your info from a member who was with the team for only several months unless it is LL.

Innova's like Wal-Mart, bullying around the small shops, and Discraft is Whole foods, making a quality product (maybe costs a little more) for those that want it in places where there is a demand.

[quoteInnova was manufacturing before discraft, gateway, dga etc.... was lightening before innova? I can't remember.



DGA was making golf discs before Innova, Night Flyer, Midnight Flyer, Kitty Hawks. Just not beveled edged discs.

Discraft was making Floater / Ultimate frisbee's before Innova. Then joined in with the Phantom at the '85 Worlds.

Lightning got in same year as Innova with the P38, shortly after the Eagle was released by Innova.

[/QUOTE]



Thank you flynvegas. That is why I asked the questions. I never stated as fact. I asked that is why there are ??? just making sure that is cleared up.


I appreciate the input and info.

Josh

and Discraft is Whole foods



Is the head of discraft posting under false names, running down the other guy's product on a public message board? :p

and Discraft is Whole foods



Is the head of discraft posting under false names, running down the other guy's product on a public message board? :p


???

[. I think the first disccraft disc was "candy plastic"

[/QUOTE]
The Phantom was the original candy plastic.

Whole Foods, an Austin based company, got in trouble recently with the SEC because its founder, Mr. Mackey, was found to be posing under an alias on internet message boards, and degrading his competitor's product and business.

I was just making sure that deadluva was more careful with his analogies.

Ahh thank you, I did not realize.
That is funny.

just an analogy based on Marketing and position in the marketplace...not the integrity of the owners. Kind of irrelevant since I didn't mention the owners in any way.

But that is very interesting.

Did you also hear that Wal-Mart execs were editing info about Wal-Mart in the Wikipedia website....just a little random info.

It is very obvious which company cares about profits, and which cares about quality


I think some of you guys need to learn that this isn't a black and white issue. Too many of you are saying things like this, that Innova doesn't care about quality. Maybe it is true that they care more about profit than Discraft, and want to feed their bottom line, but there's nothing wrong with making some spare dime (unless you're a TD, in which case you need to lose a lot of money or you're cheating the players). I believe that all of the disc companies care very much about their disc quality.

Really, to be honest with you, a lot of people complain about Innova's constant new plastics, new molds, tinkering, etc. And are saying that they only care about making more new collectables, but how does the company profit from eBay sales of independents? Innova is constantly changing their molds and plastics because they continue to want to improve their plastics. It creates a difficult market at time for the players to deal with, because of the changes and inconsistencies, but it means they're constantly a step up in innovation. Their high speeds came first, their super-high-speed has come first...

But this is where Discraft shines. They find what works and run it. Then run it some more. Then continue to run it. Their consistency is their strength, and I know I can pick up a discraft disc run last year and play with it, but if I need it replaced I can do so easily with a disc that flies just like it. Their innovations come at a slightly slower pace, but they're stronger when it comes to consistency.

I like both companies, and I think way too many of you take these arguments and turn them into black and white issues, one side constantly libelling the other. (man, libelling sure is a weird looking word when you type it out)


-Chris.

Another random tidbit to get back on topic: Innova isn't in wikipedia, but Discraft is. Is this more Discraft dominance? :p

there's nothing wrong with making some spare dime (unless you're a TD, in which case you need to lose a lot of money or you're cheating the players).



It is obvious you have never ran an event. Quite an ignorant comment.

Hey Steve Mills, you're a retard...

Innova fanatics drop that money on discs because of collector's value...everyone else is saying that and its true. I wouldn't buy a 2001 CE Roc for $300 and then throw it. Some people just like collecting stuff. You don't see that with Discraft because they don't have a huge following like Innova....hmmm, I wonder why? Because Innova has been making quality discs longer.

Mills, maybe if you switched to Innova you might get closer to a 1000 rating... :P



Taylor, haven't you been playing disc golf for like five minutes? :D



More like 5 years, Brad! I'm not trying to slam on Discraft, everyone knew though that this whole thread would eventually turn into a Discraft vs. Innova argument. I was just giving Mills crap cuz he's a Discraft pro.

But this is where Discraft shines. They find what works and run it. Then run it some more. Then continue to run it. Their consistency is their strength, and I know I can pick up a discraft disc run last year and play with it, but if I need it replaced I can do so easily with a disc that flies just like it. Their innovations come at a slightly slower pace, but they're stronger when it comes to consistency.



I want to start off by saying that I haven't been playing long and I like both manufacturers. But to say that Discraft finds what works then runs with it, and runs with it some more isn't really what I have seen. In the short time I have been playing Discraft has introduced ESP, FLX and CrystalFLX plastic. I won't fault any company for trying to make money. I think both of them produce some good products. And I haven't found that one of them produces more consistent discs than the other.

I'm just glad that they are both innovating and have some great people out there representing the product.

:p I better see you at the Ace Race buddy!

Another random tidbit to get back on topic: Innova isn't in wikipedia, but Discraft is. Is this more Discraft dominance? :p



:D

From Wikipedia when "disc golf" was searched:

"The most common brands of disc are Innova [1], Discraft [2]"

I want to start off by saying that I haven't been playing long



Stick around for a dozen years or so and you'll come across some of the 37 different types of Innova plastic. Changing plastic to find the "magical" blend is one thing, but it sure is tough on your customers when they have to pay $80 to replace a disc they like to throw. (http://cgi.ebay.com/1st-run-CE-LEOPARD-champion-edition-175g-dic-golf-NEW_W0QQitemZ120153558811QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20851Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

And you don't think that's going to happen to Discraft ... dream on.

It is very obvious which company cares about profits, and which cares about quality


I think some of you guys need to learn that this isn't a black and white issue. Too many of you are saying things like this, that Innova doesn't care about quality. Maybe it is true that they care more about profit than Discraft, and want to feed their bottom line, but there's nothing wrong with making some spare dime (unless you're a TD, in which case you need to lose a lot of money or you're cheating the players). I believe that all of the disc companies care very much about their disc quality.

Really, to be honest with you, a lot of people complain about Innova's constant new plastics, new molds, tinkering, etc. And are saying that they only care about making more new collectables, but how does the company profit from eBay sales of independents? Innova is constantly changing their molds and plastics because they continue to want to improve their plastics. It creates a difficult market at time for the players to deal with, because of the changes and inconsistencies, but it means they're constantly a step up in innovation. Their high speeds came first, their super-high-speed has come first...

But this is where Discraft shines. They find what works and run it. Then run it some more. Then continue to run it. Their consistency is their strength, and I know I can pick up a discraft disc run last year and play with it, but if I need it replaced I can do so easily with a disc that flies just like it. Their innovations come at a slightly slower pace, but they're stronger when it comes to consistency.

I like both companies, and I think way too many of you take these arguments and turn them into black and white issues, one side constantly libelling the other. (man, libelling sure is a weird looking word when you type it out)


-Chris.





Good Post....I concur...I'm just boiling the pot a little :D

Innova worries about making money....Discraft worries about producing a quality product and giving it to who wants it. Innova only sells discs to certain retailers...I have a good friend that works at the Wright Life and he says that about twenty stores in CO have to purchase Innova discs through them b/c Innova won't make enough off the smaller shops, and therefore refuses to sell to them. But I can go to Sports Authority, a huge corporation, and buy some Innova starter set and a bunch of D plastic.


It is very obvious which company cares about profits, and which cares about quality




I dont buy that for a second. I also had to jump through numerious hoops to become a "Authorized" Innova dealer, the biggest was proving ( photocopy of a lease ) that we actually had a freestanding storefront dedicated to disc golf.

Innova wants to only deal with retail sellers. They dont hook up online vendors unless they have been in the loop for a long time, because online vendors arent worried about maximizing thier profits. Innova plastic carries a high MSRP, and nobody dealing it rarely hits that number. That is why they go to the retail end, and start them at a certain price. Otherwise, the competition is too cut throat. They are basically trying to set the market price by dealing direct to retailers, and are cutting out the middlemen and wholesalers, to a point. I think your friend at Wright Life is being shown some extra respect, allowing them to stock the stores in need, probably due to thier long history in the disc golf business. When I asked if I could do the same thing, they basically said no.

Discraft and Gateway rely on great customer service, because they have to. They have to do the little things to do whatever they can to get thier product out there, as Innova has thier product everywhere, mainly in stores that dont need disc golf, but like the money it can make them. As they are the most recognized name in Disc Golf, and sell the most product, people like me would love to see Gateway and Discraft get thier come-uppings, as thats what we specialize in offering...discs you cant buy at Walgreens, or every other place on the planet.

dream on.



click, click. Nevermind. LOL. :D

I want to start off by saying that I haven't been playing long



Stick around for a dozen years or so and you'll come across some of the 37 different types of Innova plastic. Changing plastic to find the "magical" blend is one thing, but it sure is tough on your customers when they have to pay $80 to replace a disc they like to throw. (http://cgi.ebay.com/1st-run-CE-LEOPARD-champion-edition-175g-dic-golf-NEW_W0QQitemZ120153558811QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20851Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)



Hey John, quit talking smack on the MB and call me about this possible new course, we be under gun on time to get a bid in before the new budget year. Sweet 1st run and way to much money you should feel bad for ripping people off :eek: :D

I want to start off by saying that I haven't been playing long



Stick around for a dozen years or so and you'll come across some of the 37 different types of Innova plastic. Changing plastic to find the "magical" blend is one thing, but it sure is tough on your customers when they have to pay $80 to replace a disc they like to throw. (http://cgi.ebay.com/1st-run-CE-LEOPARD-champion-edition-175g-dic-golf-NEW_W0QQitemZ120153558811QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20851Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)





Yeah, thats not really accurate either. Post up a picture of a USED CE Leopard, and one that isnt being bid on by a person that buys a ton of Ebay items, and has amassed a huge collection. I know, I sell them alot of stuff.

Thats a disc you buy and sit on to double your money. Much like the seller has done Im sure. Or maybe quadruple your money, in this case.

People buy 1st Run Buzzz for 70$ because they hope they turn out like '01 Rocs.


NOPE! we buy them cuz they fly like first run BUZZZ's. how another disc flies has nuttin to do with it.



I think he meant they will turn out like 01's and skyrocket in value, not fly like 01's.




Correct. If theres a Discraft disc out there that can do it, it will be the 1st Run Buzzz.

And, I think your pretty much lying to yourself if you think that the Buzzz sold on Ebay for 70$ are going to be thrown.

Personally, I think there is no difference between them and other Buzzz, but Im not the biggest fan of the Buzzz. Im throwing one, and broke out 3 different used 1st Runs yesterday to compare the difference.

...And, if there is such a difference, than why is anyone comparing the consistency between Innova and Discraft?

I like Innova's plastic and I like Discraft's...but your point about jumping through hoops is what I don't agree with. This is about promoting the sport and providing a quality product to who wants it...not to who deserves it

Thats a disc you buy and sit on to double your money. Much like the seller has done Im sure. Or maybe quadruple your money, in this case.



Or 10x in this case! :cool:

Don't make me summon the PepperTee! :D
http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2006/08/30-1204554790T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=30-120455L&amp;y=2006&amp;m=08&amp;t=jpg&amp;rand=4790&amp;srv=img4)

I like Innova's plastic and I like Discraft's...but your point about jumping through hoops is what I don't agree with. This is about promoting the sport and providing a quality product to who wants it...not to who deserves it




Well, I think I understand and agree with where your coming from. But...Im sure those accounts that Wright Life has helps them meet thier overhead easier, and that could be viewed as a blessing. I can promise that is how I would take it.

I actually dont think the hoop jumping is a bad thing. Innova is trying to enforce thier buying policies of keeping thier plastic at a certain price, and that actually works alongside smaller business' like ours, who need to maximize whatever they can. See, Discraft and Gateway are just now starting to earn thier shelve space. Thats not entirely thier fault, as I live in an Innova dominated area, and its a great thing, as we have good relationships with both companies and are hopefull they can keep people interested in thier product.

The more Gateway and Discraft players win, the more the people sucked into the popularity of disc golf start to take notice. The better they promote thier products ( like Innova does ) the more people are willing to try them out and find out they are great products.

IMO, disc golf is alot like high school. Until the most popular people are doing it, very few are willing to do it first.

Thats a disc you buy and sit on to double your money. Much like the seller has done Im sure. Or maybe quadruple your money, in this case.



Or 10x in this case! :cool:

Don't make me summon the PepperTee! :D
http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2006/08/30-1204554790T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=30-120455L&amp;y=2006&amp;m=08&amp;t=jpg&amp;rand=4790&amp;srv=img4)




Right and theres nothing wrong with that. Just like theres nothing wrong with spending $80 if you can sit on it until its worth $160....Judging by the growth of disc golf and the collector, Id say thats 2-3 years away at the most. Its not like there arent online shops with 1st Run CE TLs for over $150.00 as we speak. I have one, I wouldnt sell it for less than that.

Well, I think I understand and agree with where your coming from. But...Im sure those accounts that Wright Life has helps them meet thier overhead easier, and that could be viewed as a blessing. I can promise that is how I would take it.

I actually dont think the hoop jumping is a bad thing. Innova is trying to enforce thier buying policies of keeping thier plastic at a certain price, and that actually works alongside smaller business' like ours, who need to maximize whatever they can. See, Discraft and Gateway are just now starting to earn thier shelve space. Thats not entirely thier fault, as I live in an Innova dominated area, and its a great thing, as we have good relationships with both companies and are hopefull they can keep people interested in thier product.

The more Gateway and Discraft players win, the more the people sucked into the popularity of disc golf start to take notice. The better they promote thier products ( like Innova does ) the more people are willing to try them out and find out they are great products.

IMO, disc golf is alot like high school. Until the most popular people are doing it, very few are willing to do it first.




Agreed....

and I actually don't know if the Wright Life helps these people out. I just know that there are a lot of small companies that get turned down by Innova in CO. Especially out here b/c we are so far from the plants. And it seems like everyone in CO throws Discraft b/c of Scott Stokely, Chauncy Donaldson, Mike Randolph, etc. Don't know if its a demand thing or what

And you don't think that's going to happen to Discraft ... dream on.



It has not happend yet with the exception of the 1st Run BUZZZ and they fixed that with the 2nd 1st Run of BUZZZs........You dont see anyone paying 80 dollars for a 1st run X Clone or Cyclone do you??? No because no want really wants to throw Discrafts old stuff because the stuff they make now is better and they dont keep changing plastics all the time..........The introduce new plastics but keep making the old ones as well.........One thing I wish Discraft would do is run all their molds in all the possible plastics!!! I mean what could I do with a D or X Flash or Maybe a D Pre or a regular Z Challenger (which I know they ran once!!!) Maybe a D or X Surge???

The one great thing about Innova is if you find a disc you like they almost always have it in EVERY plastic they make.........Other than that I would have to say Discraft has it on LOCK!!!

there's nothing wrong with making some spare dime (unless you're a TD, in which case you need to lose a lot of money or you're cheating the players).



It is obvious you have never ran an event. Quite an ignorant comment.


It is obvious you're new to this internet phenomenon. Quite a lack of understanding of sarcasm.

[QUOTE]


Agreed....

and I actually don't know if the Wright Life helps these people out. I just know that there are a lot of small companies that get turned down by Innova in CO. Especially out here b/c we are so far from the plants. And it seems like everyone in CO throws Discraft b/c of Scott Stokely, Chauncy Donaldson, Mike Randolph, etc. Don't know if its a demand thing or what



By small companies do you mean online dealers? Im pretty sure what is required now to deal direct is a freestanding location. ( storefront. )

And you don't think that's going to happen to Discraft ... dream on.



It has not happend yet with the exception of the 1st Run BUZZZ and they fixed that with the 2nd 1st Run of BUZZZs........You dont see anyone paying 80 dollars for a 1st run X Clone or Cyclone do you??? No because no want really wants to throw Discrafts old stuff because the stuff they make now is better and they dont keep changing plastics all the time..........The introduce new plastics but keep making the old ones as well.........One thing I wish Discraft would do is run all their molds in all the possible plastics!!! I mean what could I do with a D or X Flash or Maybe a D Pre or a regular Z Challenger (which I know they ran once!!!) Maybe a D or X Surge???

The one great thing about Innova is if you find a disc you like they almost always have it in EVERY plastic they make.........Other than that I would have to say Discraft has it on LOCK!!!




I know of alot of people that are and have been stock piling Discraft discs, for the collectable market. Especially the ESP stuff, and pretty much everything with a 1st Run stamp.

Eventually, thier discs will raise in value for that market. Not in the same way as Innova, but enough to make some money off of.

there's nothing wrong with making some spare dime (unless you're a TD, in which case you need to lose a lot of money or you're cheating the players).



It is obvious you have never ran an event. Quite an ignorant comment.


It is obvious you're new to this internet phenomenon. Quite a lack of understanding of sarcasm.



I understand. I get angry and take offense to greedy TD's. Do they have this 'internet' on computers yet?

Go LIGHTING!!!!!

Please a new thread!!!

Innova's like Wal-Mart, bullying around the small shops, and Discraft is Whole foods, making a quality product (maybe costs a little more) for those that want it in places where there is a demand.



This is topic drift, but I don't care... Whole foods is a Texas-based corporation whose concern is profit, whose stores push out local co-ops, and whose ridiculously high buying power enables them to offer a lower price than a local store. If you want to research how local sales help any areas' economy and compare that to how much out-of-state sales help (hurt) that same economy, I'm pretty sure you'll see a point in paying that extra 6 cents on the dollar.

Whole foods sucks.

-Brandon

Innova's like Wal-Mart, bullying around the small shops, and Discraft is Whole foods, making a quality product (maybe costs a little more) for those that want it in places where there is a demand.



This is topic drift, but I don't care... Whole foods is a Texas-based corporation whose concern is profit, whose stores push out local co-ops, and whose ridiculously high buying power enables them to offer a lower price than a local store. If you want to research how local sales help any areas' economy and compare that to how much out-of-state sales help (hurt) that same economy, I'm pretty sure you'll see a point in paying that extra 6 cents on the dollar.

Whole foods sucks.

-Brandon



Never thought I see the Wal-Mart rant applied to Whole Foods.

Compete is a verb. Either the locals compete (and not on price) or they close.

Buying from any chain hurts the local economy and hurts the environment. Think about the millions of gallons of gas used to transport just produce alone across the country. Buying only locally grown produce is a great way to do your part.

Buying from any chain hurts the local economy and hurts the environment. Think about the millions of gallons of gas used to transport just produce alone across the country. Buying only locally grown produce is a great way to do your part.



What kind of fresh local produce do you get in Michigan in the winter?

From Nate and Cale winning majors to talking about grocery stores...

This could be the makings of the best thread drift since "How do I throw my MRV?"

the thread didn't have much validity to start with

What kind of fresh local produce do you get in Michigan in the winter?


Obviously not much. In the summer we have many many farmer's markets and produce stands.

What kind of fresh local produce do you get in Michigan in the winter?



Very little, and it hurts. I don't eat tomatoes, unless in sauces, any time outside of July-September, because they taste so good fresh that (sigh) I can't stand the long-distance ones.

It is possible to pretty easily grow lettuce and some greens in the winter with just some cheap glass or plastic thingie attached to a shed, but I don't, usually, but have in the past. We can get some greens very early in the spring, earlier than you would think.

We do take lots of local stuff that is summer season that stores well, like beans, squash, potatoes, turnips, rutabaga, etc., and try to store and use that instead of store-bought.

Some squash and other things, like Brussels sprouts, can be harvested well into early winter. We also get our eggs from a local farm and although production slows a bit in mid-winter, we have eggs laid within a mile and within a day or two all year 'round.

But you do have to either buy some stuff that has traveled a lot or change what you eat more than I want to. I think the secret toward moving toward sustainability is not to be a martyr, but to make the easy steps consistently, pluck the low-hanging fruit; get the 80 of the 80:20 rule.

How much are avocados in Michigan?

That's a good question. I don't think I've ever bought an avocado.

I am no longer thowing Discraft or Innova.

I have switched to throwing only locally grown organic "Tomatoes".

Doing my part.

How much are avocados in Michigan?


Four bits at Kerrytown Market in A2 all the time, otherwise a buck or a buck and a half at most stores.

Not many locally grown, though.

Daemon didn't mention the importance of drinking locally as well. He's doing his part, 12 oz at a time. And he carpools, too, even when his car is running.

The Amish are only allowed to throw organic "frisbees." Eeeewwww! Frequent replacement required but cheap to do so...

Produce dominance for the win!

Go team Squash ... here's my new bag. Yeah, I know ... they're turbo-putt knockoffs.

http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/PetitPanSquash.jpg

My DevilHawk flies further when I feed it local produce.

A+ thread drift


Daemon didn't mention the importance of drinking locally as well. He's doing his part, 12 oz at a time.


I definitely support local breweries.

And he carpools, too, even when his car is running.


:confused:

Most entertaining thread in a while :D

I never thought my bad analogy based on marketing positioning would bring it to this but I am thoroughly entertained

Innova's like Wal-Mart, bullying around the small shops, and Discraft is Whole foods, making a quality product (maybe costs a little more) for those that want it in places where there is a demand.



This is topic drift, but I don't care... Whole foods is a Texas-based corporation whose concern is profit, whose stores push out local co-ops, and whose ridiculously high buying power enables them to offer a lower price than a local store. If you want to research how local sales help any areas' economy and compare that to how much out-of-state sales help (hurt) that same economy, I'm pretty sure you'll see a point in paying that extra 6 cents on the dollar.

Whole foods sucks.

-Brandon



Wow!!! sorry, didn't know it was such a personal issue! I was refering to Whole foods, Wild Oats, Sunflower Market or any other small organic food stores marketing premise that they will sell a more expensive product in a high demand area to who ever wants it. NOW Whole foods image has changed immensely and they are using the same bullying, penny scrounging tools that Wal-Mart has shown the retail world. I've got a tissue if you need one... :confused:

I am no longer thowing Discraft or Innova.

I have switched to throwing only locally grown organic "Tomatoes".

Doing my part.



L or X mold? The X (hybrid) are much more stable growers due to their resistance to diseases, including mold... Wait, now I'm confused.

Considering your offense to his mild jab at your terrible analogy, I think you have not a tissue to spare. Comparing Innova to walmart is like comparing tinfoil to gorgonzola cheese. NO CONNECTION.

Well, okay, I admit they do share an inescapable bond; neither are made with dead unicorns.

I have admitted to my bad analogy; but I do like the riveting response it received



Well, okay, I admit they do share an inescapable bond; neither are made with dead unicorns.



to shay, to shay

to shay, to shay



touche' touche' :D

thanks...them Frenchies sure spell wierd :)

kind of like "glidey?" :D

I was told that Discraft's new FLX plastic was "Sweet!" I haven't even tried to throw it. I am a diabetic and I don't think that plastic is for me. Not sure what local produce to put in my bag. Being from the Chicago area I think I will throw a few tantrums. The only problem with them is they can be understable. Once they turn over you never know where they will go. Of course my putting has improved signficantly since I decided to think globally and throw locally. I am using a 1344 gram deep dish Chicago style pizza. If flies true and never bounces off the chains. In doubles I let my partner take a bite out of my putter every once in a while. That make the thing look sort of like the Quest Turbo which is produced locally as well. I'm good... :p

I am using a 1344 gram deep dish Chicago style pizza



That means it's pepperoni, therefor modified, theretherefor illegal

*chuckle*

I'm late to the thread - just a few comments...

At the 1983 WDGC Jim Kenner was on hand with his new golf disc, the Sky Streak. He challenged players to throw it against a wall to try and break it, and none could. Interestingly enough, there's a scene in the "SNAP" movie that is very reminiscent of that event - the Snapdisc boys take some of their newly minted discs and try them out against a wall. A bit of a flashback moment for me. This plastic was very "candy-like," a pearlescent milky-white. But the Sky Streak didn't fly as far as the Eagle...

I throw mostly Innova plastic, especially for drivers. Why? Because I prefer throwing light plastic (150-160g drivers) and Discraft doesn't produce very much of it. My main drivers are a 150g Sidewinder and a 155g Valkyrie. What does Discraft produce that compares to that?

San Diego County has the country's largest number of truck farmers, so getting home-grown produce all year round is rarely a problem here. I really prefer buying produce at the farmer's market from the person who might have picked it (or directly paid the picker) compared to buying at Whole Foods/Sprouts/Henry's/Boney's/etc. or Vons/Safeway/Jewel/Albertson's/Publix, etc. In a similar way, I'd rather buy from a local storefront, someone who throws plastic, than from Wal-Mart, Sports Authority, Target, etc. I'm glad golf discs are showing up in those stores so the game becomes accessible for more players, but I'd rather buy from enthusiasts.

Now what would be cool is if we could head down to the [insert disc manufacturer name here] factory or warehouse on Friday afternoon for Happy Hour, to test out the latest plastic hot off the molder. Stone Brewery lets us do that with their beer!!

:eek:
" Now what would be cool is if we could head down to the [insert disc manufacturer name here] factory or warehouse on Friday afternoon for Happy Hour, to test out the latest plastic hot off the molder. Stone Brewery lets us do that with their beer!!

Count me In !!!!!! :D

The best situation would be to have the disc golf factory at a brewery, so you could get some fresh brew while trying out the new plastic.

I remember last year at a day/night tournament in November in Temperance, Michigan... I was playing on a torn tendon in my knee so I, naturally, was playing miserable and was on bottom card second round. All the guys on bottom card put in money and got 4 12-packs of Busch Light.

We each carried 12, and if you had the worst score (or tied for worst score) on any hole you had to shotgun a beer. Of course, making this better was that it was the second/GLOW round of the tournament. Dark as hell out. Glowstix lining fairways.

We started, I remember, on hole 8. As we got to Hole 17's teepad we decided we were hungry and ordered a couple of pizzas. As we reached Hole 1's teepad the Pizza Delivery guy pulled up right next to the pad and delivered our pies to us.

Ah... that was thread drift, but yeah, I had a point somewhere... Oh yeah! Relating to the whole getting a fresh brew while trying out new plastic got me thinking of beer league softball got me thinking of how to do beer league disc golf which had me remembering that round.

Fantastic round of golf.

If Discraft is So Awesome and their plastic is SO great............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................Can someone tell me why it doesn't sell for jack on ebay , as much as say .............................Innova ? :eek:

If Discraft is So Awesome and their plastic is SO great............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................Can someone tell me why it doesn't sell for jack on ebay , as much as say .............................Innova ? :eek:



Have you read any of this thread...that is what half of it was about???? :o

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I throw discraft and this is why I think they are better. Consistency. you can buy the same mold that you bought last year or years previous. Number two, I throw the same disc as Nate Doss, and the others.
The other company has retooled ontario, san marino, 8 time, rare disc that the average player does not have access to. I recently looked in a touring innova players bag and did not see one standard star, champion, or dx disc that his company makes.
Some people love to pay 30 or more dollars for a putter but you know what, Im never paying more than 15 to 17 dollars for my putter. It will be the same, says the owner.
Wouldnt you want the representatives of your company to throw your products, especially the ones you want the average thrower to buy?
I quit buying innova when the ce line went under. Tom Monroe told me its cause the plastic injected into those disc was mainly used for a storage bin company that went out of business.
I dont have time to cruise ebay and wait around to get the disc that I love to play with. I can just buy one down the street


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That is a great point and one I hear more and more. I was at a tourney this weekend and the old discs were going for $100 bucks on some. It was an auction and all the stuff was innova except and old Buzzz. It only went for $25 and it goes to show you Discraft is so consistent now, the old stuff just isn't worth the big dollars. Check out Ebay sometime, how many old Discraft discs will you see? Not many....what a great problem to have!

"Discraft makes a more consistant product"????? Since when? The main reason you hear about more inconsistancies in the Innova product is due to the fact that they sell what, 15 to 20 times more golf discs than Discraft. I'm willing to bet that the actual "inconsistant" percentages are almost identical.
But how do you test that theory. By taking the word of message board posters? There's maybe 5 or 6 guys in the world who could repeat thier throws. Same speed, same release angle, same hieght...... and they could repeat that throw maybe once. The only way to tell for sure is for someone to fork up the cash to create a machine that could measure flights in a controlled enviroment.
I'll spot the Discraft faithful the difference between the 1st run CE Valk and the 2nd runs. Clearly a different disc. Same could be said about 1st run Z Buzzz and the latter runs.
The one thing that Innova is doing so much better than Discraft at the moment is the packaging. Those little stickers go a long way in keeping inconsistancies out of the same case let alone the same run.


Now before you jump on me consider that I've sold the Discraft product since 1991 with the last 6 years selling in the heart of Innova country, NC. I've heard just about every story out there. Red ones fly better than the blues, 3rd runs fly better than the 4th runs, the ones with the rainbow stamps are more stable........funny are the excuses folks come up with when they don't spend enough time practicing.
:D

"Discraft makes a more consistant product"????? Since when? The main reason you hear about more inconsistancies in the Innova product is due to the fact that they sell what, 15 to 20 times more golf discs than Discraft. I'm willing to bet that the actual "inconsistant" percentages are almost identical.
But how do you test that theory. By taking the word of message board posters? There's maybe 5 or 6 guys in the world who could repeat thier throws. Same speed, same release angle, same hieght...... and they could repeat that throw maybe once. The only way to tell for sure is for someone to fork up the cash to create a machine that could measure flights in a controlled enviroment.
I'll spot the Discraft faithful the difference between the 1st run CE Valk and the 2nd runs. Clearly a different disc. Same could be said about 1st run Z Buzzz and the latter runs.
The one thing that Innova is doing so much better than Discraft at the moment is the packaging. Those little stickers go a long way in keeping inconsistancies out of the same case let alone the same run.


Now before you jump on me consider that I've sold the Discraft product since 1991 with the last 6 years selling in the heart of Innova country, NC. I've heard just about every story out there. Red ones fly better than the blues, 3rd runs fly better than the 4th runs, the ones with the rainbow stamps are more stable........funny are the excuses folks come up with when they don't spend enough time practicing.
:D



Nice Call !!!!! :D

http://owmybrain.50g.com/art/yawn.jpg

http://owmybrain.50g.com/art/yawn.jpg



:D Someone needs some Diet Pepsi Max !!!! :D

"Discraft makes a more consistant product"????? Since when? The main reason you hear about more inconsistancies in the Innova product is due to the fact that they sell what, 15 to 20 times more golf discs than Discraft. I'm willing to bet that the actual "inconsistant" percentages are almost identical.
But how do you test that theory. By taking the word of message board posters? There's maybe 5 or 6 guys in the world who could repeat thier throws. Same speed, same release angle, same hieght...... and they could repeat that throw maybe once. The only way to tell for sure is for someone to fork up the cash to create a machine that could measure flights in a controlled enviroment.
I'll spot the Discraft faithful the difference between the 1st run CE Valk and the 2nd runs. Clearly a different disc. Same could be said about 1st run Z Buzzz and the latter runs.
The one thing that Innova is doing so much better than Discraft at the moment is the packaging. Those little stickers go a long way in keeping inconsistancies out of the same case let alone the same run.


Now before you jump on me consider that I've sold the Discraft product since 1991 with the last 6 years selling in the heart of Innova country, NC. I've heard just about every story out there. Red ones fly better than the blues, 3rd runs fly better than the 4th runs, the ones with the rainbow stamps are more stable........funny are the excuses folks come up with when they don't spend enough time practicing.
:D



First I would just like to say thanks to all of those posters in this thread that have contributed to conbating my boredom this morning at work haha It's been quite the entertaining read.

Rick, in response to the quote above...from my experience throwing innova for years and then discraft exclusively since last september, I have found that with discraft, if i lose a disc, i don't have to practice with a replacement before feeling comfortable using it in a tournament situation. Now I know that some of this may be attributed to the fact that I'm a much better player now than i was during most of the time i threw mostly innova but I still never felt like I could pull out new innova disc and expect it to fly almost identical to one i just lost. I can do this with discraft. There have been several times since sept where I lost a disc, pulled out a replacement and never missed a beat in a tournament on the holes where I threw it. I'm also not just blindly endorsing discraft b/c i'm sponsered...I noticed this difference in consistancy last year when i had a mixed bag. Also, on a different note, hope all's going well up there in NC :)