Player A blows up on the final hole of a tournament. He fears it will adversely affect his rating. As he ponders his final putt, he decides to pick up his marker and walk to the parking lot. As other groups come in, he is surprised to see that many poor scores are coming in and his, comparatively, is not as bad as he had thought. Player A decides to finish the round after all. While the rest of his group has finished the hole, the card has not yet been turned in to HQ.

Can Player A finish the round?

Special K,

In my opinion, he has taken a conscious act that falls into the category of 803.13 (a3). By picking up his mini and walking to the parking lot, he has made a decision to not hole out, thereby resulting in a DNF.

Again, in my opinion, It could be interepreted in a variety of ways, but that is how I would rule on it.

803.13 Holing Out
A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines:
(1) Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02.
(2) Inadvertently failing to hole out (as determined by a majority of the group or an official) shall result in 2 penalty throws being added to the number of throws plus penalty throws already taken on the hole. The hole shall then be considered completed.
(3) Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as �Did Not Finish� on the scorecard and in the event results.

Thank you,

Steve

Player A should be ashamed of himself.

If not a DQ, I'm thinking this would at least deserve a 2-shot penalty or possibly pregnancy...

DNF per 803.13

The player should have holed out and then pondered whether turn in the scorecard. Not finishing the hole and walking away? Clearly a case of withdrawal from competition.

Also I agree that the player should be ashamed.

If not a DQ, I'm thinking this would at least deserve a 2-shot penalty or possibly pregnancy...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Definitely pregnancy.

Sorry, but the title was too good of a setup... :D

He should get a 7 since that's par +4

Of all the answers, 7 is not even viable. He intentionally failed to hole out and is therefore DNF.

Player A might learn the error of his ways from watching a few events at a Special Olympics.

I think Player A ought to ask himself, not the TD, if he can finsh the round. And if he decides he can't, then at least start being a man at that point, stand by his stupid decision, laugh about it and realize that he should never, ever do that again.




Player A blows up on the final hole of a tournament. He fears it will adversely affect his rating. As he ponders his final putt, he decides to pick up his marker and walk to the parking lot. As other groups come in, he is surprised to see that many poor scores are coming in and his, comparatively, is not as bad as he had thought. Player A decides to finish the round after all. While the rest of his group has finished the hole, the card has not yet been turned in to HQ.

Can Player A finish the round?

I've heard the par + 4 answer before for this type of situation. Par + 4 only applies to holes missed at the start of the round. Once the round is started, there are only two possibilities for failure to hole out as described in 803.13.A 2 or 3.

The only inadvertant failures to hole out I've seen are situations where the player was talking and left the putter either on the ground without putting, or in the basket after putting (holing out requires that the disc be removed).

This happened in a tourney this year in Council Bluffs, but under a different set of circumstances. A player was about a third of the way done with his final 20 holes, and playing fairly well. He realized that he had lost his wallet somewhere along the course, and with the TD nearby, he told the TD his reasoning and that he must withdraw to find his wallet, as it was a fairly wooded and large course and could take hours to find. He missed about 3 or 4 holes when someone tracked him down and said they found his wallet. He went back to the TD and asked if it would be possible to un-withdraw, and the TD didn't know for sure. A call was placed to the PDGA, and their response was that it was up to the TD. TD allowed him back in but the player would need to take 7's on the holes he missed. He still finished lower-mid pack despite automatically geting 16-20 strokes added.

Who at the PDGA told them that?

If the TD in that case should have had the player catch up to his group and play out that set of holes. Once done with that, the TD could have then assigned an official to go back with the player to play the missed holes.

nope, its a DNF.

if you play 17 holes and don't finish the 18th its a DNF.

However, if you miss 17 holes and then play the 18th, your round counts.

I don't know why we should even be discussing what to do in these cases. DNF for both. Case #1 - Don't be a quitter, especially on the last hole. Case #2 - lock your wallet in your car.

I completely agree with #1. #2 gets into the area of customer satisfaction. The TD wants to please his customers (ie. players). Yes, the TD can just say DNF, but if a TD wants to extend good will, he can do so. Just not with 7's on missed holes in the middle of a round.

Is he playing a tournament or buying a car?

Neither. He is very convincingly playing the part of a bonehead :eek:

804.03 A or B

........If a complete round is missed, or if a player does not finish a round, the player may, at the discretion of the director, be disqualified.

So by rule, the TD is allowed to make that call. If the TD wants to allow a player to rejoin the group they may do so. Next if you go back and read the section you will see that it says nothing about when you can get par +4 for missing a hole, it just says the person with the card calls out the players name and they have 30 seconds to throw.

If a player is not present to throw when it is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown by then, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole.

Now this implies at the start, but it says nothing about in between and therefore is applicable. If you look at 803.13 Holing Out, it clearly states that their are two situations, fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole. The rule everyone is quoting is in regards to failing to hole out. There is only one application for failing to play a hole and that is at the start of a round, therefore failing to play a hole during the round is NOT the same as holing out and is not covered well under 803.13. However, the rule does allow some leeway by stating that it is up to the TD

803.13 A. A player who fails to play any hole or fails to hole out on any hole during the round may be disqualified, at the discretion of the director

This appears to me to allow the TD some room. Say for instance a player holes out on their 17th hole, but has a minor emergancy. At the TD's discretion the player can take par + 4, run to the minor emergancy room and return for the next round.

It seams to me that par + 4's have to be taken on the missed holes though. The rules also allow the TD to DQ the player so regardless of what we think should happen, that call is up to the TD and either is allowed.


This happened in a tourney this year in Council Bluffs, but under a different set of circumstances. A player was about a third of the way done with his final 20 holes, and playing fairly well. He realized that he had lost his wallet somewhere along the course, and with the TD nearby, he told the TD his reasoning and that he must withdraw to find his wallet, as it was a fairly wooded and large course and could take hours to find. He missed about 3 or 4 holes when someone tracked him down and said they found his wallet. He went back to the TD and asked if it would be possible to un-withdraw, and the TD didn't know for sure. A call was placed to the PDGA, and their response was that it was up to the TD. TD allowed him back in but the player would need to take 7's on the holes he missed. He still finished lower-mid pack despite automatically geting 16-20 strokes added.

The rule you cite is 804.02 (Beginning Play) By its very definition is only applicable at the start of a round.

803.13 is the closest applicable rule to either scenario.

(3) Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as �Did Not Finish� on the scorecard and in the event results.

803.13 doesn't require DQ, but it also doesn't list other options. It seems that it was intentionally left vague for the TD to determine what is best in each peculiar situation.

However the rule book clearly defines this as two seperate things, fails to play any hole AND fails to hole out. The only applicable portion of 803.13 for "fails to play" is:

Holes missed due to late arrival may be scored and penalized according to section 804.02

There is no other statement about failing to play the hole, so you can either infer that failing to play the hole is the same as failing to hole out, in which case the rule needs to state this or you can take it as it is written. 803.13 allows the TD to DQ a player or to not DQ the player. If the TD chooses the NOT option the closest approximate rule is defined in 804.02.

By your take on the rule, the portion that states at the TD's descretion is never applicable. Can you name a single case in which it would be?


The rule you cite is 804.02 (Beginning Play) By its very definition is only applicable at the start of a round.

803.13 is the closest applicable rule to either scenario.

(3) Intentionally failing to hole out (emergency, injury, plane flight, etc.) constitutes withdrawal from competition. The player shall be withdrawn from competition and officially listed as �Did Not Finish� on the scorecard and in the event results.

It's not a DQ. It's a withdrawal from competition. The rule I cite is anything but vague. The rule clearly states that if you intentionally fail to hole out, you have withdrawn from competition and you will be listed as a DNF.

EDIT: Well, yeah, it is a DQ, but that's neither here nor there.

The 803.13 rule gives the TD leeway except in the case where the player intentionally fails to hole out, which is certainly the case in both scenarios. It's reasonable to assume in this case that failure to play the hole is the same as failure to hole out.

From 802.04 Beginning Play

"... If a player is not
present to throw when it is his or her turn,
the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds.
If the player has not thrown after the 30
seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus
four is to be entered for that hole. This
procedure continues on any subsequent
holes for which a player is absent. No holes
shall be replayed. If a complete round
is missed, or if a player does not fi nish a
round, the player may, at the discretion of
the director, be disqualified." [end of paragraph]

Although this rule applies specifically to missing holes at the beginning of the round, I believe that the rule of fairness allows us to apply it to any hole that is missed.

If someone skips the last hole, I would have the score entered as par plus four, make a notation on the scorecard that this score was for a hole the player did not complete, also noting if the player started the hole or not, and leave it to the TD to decide to either leave the score stand or to DQ the player. As the TD, I would try and contact the player to see if there is an intent to return for the next round, if there is a next round, and also to seek additional information to determine if there was a violation of Rule 804.05 A(3), cheating, before making a decision.

-----------------------------

[edit] OOPS - missed 803.13 :o

From 802.04 Beginning Play

"... If a player is not
present to throw when it is his or her turn,
the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds.
If the player has not thrown after the 30
seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus
four is to be entered for that hole. This
procedure continues on any subsequent
holes for which a player is absent. No holes
shall be replayed. If a complete round
is missed, or if a player does not fi nish a
round, the player may, at the discretion of
the director, be disqualified." [end of paragraph]

Although this rule applies specifically to missing holes at the beginning of the round, I believe that the rule of fairness allows us to apply it to any hole that is missed.

If someone skips the last hole, I would have the score entered as par plus four, make a notation on the scorecard that this score was for a hole the player did not complete, also noting if the player started the hole or not, and leave it to the TD to decide to either leave the score stand or to DQ the player. As the TD, I would try and contact the player to see if there is an intent to return for the next round, if there is a next round, and also to seek additional information to determine if there was a violation of Rule 804.05 A(3), cheating, before making a decision.

-----------------------------

[edit] OOPS - missed 803.13 :o



That's cool and within your discretion to do so. My discretion is that I am not going out of my way to be accommodating to a player who exhibits poor behaviour. Too much coddling. People like that need to be shown the door.

In the original example Player A doesn't skip the last hole, he doesn't finish it. Par + 4 could be a lower score than what he was about to receive.

IMO it's discourteous to other players on his card to quit to preserve his rating. It's also a slap in the face to the TD to ask to be allowed to finish.

Player A should be ridiculed mercilessly for the rest of their life (or for the rest of the day at least).

In the original example the case is different. How do you handle a player who is already sitting at 6, throwing 7 and decides it would be easier to just take a "7" and go to the next whole. In that case I think the portion of 803.13 that deals with failing to hole out says the player should be DQ'd, however the the rule states " ....at the discretion of the director, using the following guidelines...."

In my opinion it is an unfair advantage to let a player pick up their discs and walk to the next hole taking a par +4. As a TD I would DQ him.


In the original example Player A doesn't skip the last hole, he doesn't finish it. Par + 4 could be a lower score than what he was about to receive.

IMO it's discourteous to other players on his card to quit to preserve his rating. It's also a slap in the face to the TD to ask to be allowed to finish.

I concur.

As do I. Send the bugger home.

In my opinion it is an unfair advantage to let a player pick up their discs and walk to the next hole taking a par +4. As a TD I would DQ him.



To me this would fall under "intentional circumvention of the rules" - DQ.

As for the original post - DNF, the rule is quite clear.