I am looking for some feedback from advanced players . When the Advanced Men play the same course as the Pros, would you rather throw from the Gold Tees like the Pros (even if it is extra hard and long) or play Blue Tees just for advanced. What is your preference?

While it'll be interesting to see what the blue players prefer (guessing it's longs, we'll see), another question is what's appropriate for them to play? If the proper landing zone is out of average blue distance reach, doesn't that change the character of a hole or even ruin it?

We have a course nearby that features red, white, blue, and gold configurations. At a tournament, pros will play the golds, but advanced ams will play blue. That's cos' the distances are calculated to be appropriate to the skill level. A blue player playing blue tees will probably get a similar overall score to the gold player playing the gold tees. But when you mix the levels, things get out of hand. We did it for a daily event. Everyone played the golds. We got a few scores near par, then lots of scores 13-20 over par.

I also saw the downside of mixing tough tees and shorter throwers at a recent event. The gist is that one group finished their round well more than an hour after everyone else was back. Course flow could be an issue.

I'm guessing that the poll will be 60-70% "gold". It's important to note, though, that most "pro" tees currently in existence are blue level, not gold. Many players (and some TD's and course designers) aren't even able to articulate what "blue" and "gold" are. We're moving in the right direction, but still have a lot of work to make these standards universal. I do think, in the long run, that our efforts in this endeavor will pay off nicely for the sport.

Of any given advanced division, there are probably 30-50% of the players that have "gold" distance. A problem with having blue play gold is that it allows long, inaccurate throwers to mask their game's shortcomings. If these types are going to be truly competitive if they move up, it's necessary to develop the full package.

I don't want, however, to perpetuate the stereotype that adding another 50-75 ft. per shot to a blue tee is the best way to make a gold course. There's a lot that can be done by slightly tweaking tee angles that can add difficulty and increase score spreads in a fair manner without relying predominantly on distance.

Shorter tees make sense for older divisions and lower rated divisions like Intermediate and Recreational who don't throw as far and typically don't enjoy the longer tees. Because Advanced division golfers' average ratings aren't exceptionally lower than those who comprise the Open division, it does not make sense that Advanced division golfers play shorter tees. When I was an Advanced division golfer, there were a few tournaments that I stopped going to because the TD chose to make the Advanced division play shorter tees. When I inquired with the TD about the reasoning behind this I was told "You wanna play the long tees, then you gotta step up and play with the big boys." To me this was a shameful attempt at boosting Open division field sizes and purses.

This is addressed in the PDGA guidelines for tees and divisions: www.pdga.com/documents/2004/PDGAGuides2004.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/documents/2004/PDGAGuides2004.pdf)

Advanced who play in top tier events can handle the Gold tees when the average rating of contenders in that division is higher. Otherwise, they should be playing the blues so the distance ranges provide better and more fair scoring spread due to skill not just distance. If an Advanced player can't beat the competition on courses suited for their skill level they shouldn't be thrown a bone to play the gold tees except maybe once in a three or four round event like the Blue-Blue at Warwick which is mostly gold level. Their tee colors were done before the gold standards were established.

That's true if the pro tees are truly Gold tees. As Denny pointed out, many times the pro tees are really blue level. And then not having Advanced division play them as "incentive" to play pro is silly.

BTW a lot of Grandmasters do like to play off the longer more difficult tees, for example at Moraine in Pittsburgh we got to play the long tees (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_1980.JPG) thank goodness as it is really disappointing to hear "you go play those shorter tees it makes the scoring distribution better". :mad:

In most tournaments Pro Grandmasters typically play the same tees as Open which includes the long tees. Usually it's divisions like Intermediate and below, Masters Women & older, & Legends Men that don't play longer tees. Again, the "gold" tees at Moraine are probably not all gold level tees but a mixture of gold and blue.

Sorry Shark. There's a difference between what's good for competition and what you might want to play at an event. And TDs can certainly have divisions play different sets in a multiple round event. You can always play the tees not suited for your level of skill, either tougher or easier, any time you want to in casual rounds. But for tournaments, TDs should be selecting the tees suited for the division skill levels where appropriate. Short tees don't have to be wimpy either. The short tees being played by Women and Sr. GMs on the Gold course for Worlds will be longer than most courses in the country at 7945 feet while GMs play an equivalent one at 8205. And those tees are suited for those skill levels, too, because the pins were chosen to work well on scoring distribution for both Blue and Gold levels.

Of any given advanced division, there are probably 30-50% of the players that have "gold" distance. A problem with having blue play gold is that it allows long, inaccurate throwers to mask their game's shortcomings.


Very good point. And, 65% of the blue level players that play these gold length holes will have the same score...so in essence, that hole doens't exsist with regards to the overall outcome.

Another thing I have discovered that can affect the TD's decision on which tees to assign which divisions are ratings. 2 years ago at our annual event, there were 7 of the 54 players that had qualifying ratings (unsanctioned event). Last year (sanctioned event), there were 15 of 74. This year, 17 of 82. So, for everyone to get a rating, they have to all play the same tees. Our course is about 5550, fairly open and level...so its not too much to ask even Rec or Int Women to play. I guess assigning divisions to appropriate skill level tees should be the priority, but I really wanted everyone that attended to get a rating. Plus, at least 1/3 of our holes are white skill level (200-230ft) and creating 2 tees could get confusing with some holes playing from the concrete, some from natural tees, and vice-versa.

Somehow, I think next year I will have Blue tees for the Pro/Advanced (since the Pro's, with all due respect, are mostly good adv. players playing Pro) and the rest on White tees....and let the ratings fall as they may.