I searched "added holes" and "extra holes" but could not find a thread on this topic.

I don't play in a lot of tournaments, but I've had two experiences this summer where additional holes were added to the course to accommodate (get in) waitlisted players. While I appreciate the desire to get more revenue, I wonder if I'm the only person who thinks this isn't necessarily fair for the people who preregister expecting to play 18 holes but end up playing 19-21? (It adds time to rounds and could affect fatigue, etc.)

Also, how uncommon is it to get last minute decisions or flip-flops as to which tees various divisions will play from?

Shouldn't extra holes, alternate pin placements, and alternate tees be part of the pre-registration flyer? It can be tough if you get to the course expecting two rounds of 18 holes around 5,000 feet and end up playing 21 holes over 7,000. (Yes, I know one can alway not pregister and just show up and only play if the configuration is to one's liking, but....)

Is this a common occurrence, or is it just a coincidence that I've run into it a lot?

Seems to be two camps on this. Those that dig it and those that don't. It's all a matter of preference. I don't like added holes for many reasons, primarily that it changes the course and adds time to the round. Also, the added holes are usually rather lackluster. I would rather have a set player limit and stick to it. That way you can schedule your tournament day as TD a bit better.

Others like added holes because it gives them the ability to accommodate more than 90 players at a time on one course. I'm sure this makes some folks happy to get in, but may make others bummed that they will likely be playing in fivesomes all day/weekend.

Again, it's a matter of preference since I don't think there's any solid rule on the practice. My preference is to not add holes.

added holes suck imo. fivesomes too. why diminish the tournament experience for those who are responsible enough to register in a timely fashion in order to accomodate those who don't??

anything "out of the ordinary" that is going to be done should be advertised in advance.

I have not seen holes added after the tournament nearly as often as prior to. As an example I regularly play two events that add holes, but everyone knows about it before hand. I will say that I am considering adding some holes to my event, because adding holes will almost always help the flow better than making 5 man cards. This is just my opinion, but that is the way it seems to me when I am playing events that have to do either.

Also, it is not always about the TD making extra money, I believe if the event starts on time, the players that get to the event before sign up deadline should be given every attempt to play. However, I agree that pre-registered players should not get shafted because of 10 late players.

It's tough when you are suprised by new holes you've never practiced....or worse, new temporary holes that locals have played before but no one else has seen.

I suspect it's rarely about the money. If the extra players are pros, the TD likely makes nothing; if Ams, the little he makes on a few extra players hardly justifies the effort. More likely, it's sympathy for players who would be left out.

My experience has been overwhelmingly with TDs maintaining their hard cap on registration, and turning away players rather than adding holes. However, I once attended a tournament on a remote course that had never remotely filled. This weekend there were 30 pre-registered....and 67 showed up the morning of the event! The course had 18 standard holes plus 9 new ones, so the TD incorporated 6 of the 9 new holes and we played foursomes, rounds of 24 holes each.

added holes suck imo. fivesomes too. why diminish the tournament experience for those who are responsible enough to register in a timely fashion in order to accomodate those who don't??

anything "out of the ordinary" that is going to be done should be advertised in advance.


what john said!

I think "sympathy for players who would be left out" is the biggest factor, not extra cash. Those who have sympathy in these situations add holes. Those who don't turn folks away.

"Bring back am's being able to receive merch for cashing in a pro division! "

done

"Bring back am's being able to receive merch for cashing in a pro division! "

done


huh?

I have never played in/been involved in an event where we had to add holes the morning of...but, its been close a few times.

I say as long as you plan from the beginning to play a set number of holes, advertise this and stick to it...added holes are fine. I agree that they should not be worthless either. As a TD, my intention for added holes would be to relieve the fivesome issue first...with the added bonus of accomedating more players second. Also, I think no more than 21 holes should be played in a round. I played a tournament a few years ago with 27 holes per round. The added holes were really cool on a really pretty piece of property, but it was a REAL grind to play that many holes.

At my event next year, I think I am adding 3 holes AND making pre-registration mandatory. Also, limit the rounds to 3...with a final 9 for the Pros, or some other kind of contest/side game to fill Sunday afternoon while still getting done and everyone on the way home no later than 5p. Hopefully, the best of both worlds

We'll add a hole at the Illinois Open Series. Usually we plan on two or three added holes and they are on the scorecard. They are described on the website. They are painted and flagged the afternoon before the tournament. But if we fill, sometimes we'll add one more.

The main issues with adding holes are that they are not on the scorecard or the next tee arrow on one hole does not point to the added hole. I usually conform the scorecards to the new configuration, somehow.

I don't like turning players away if we can accomodate them somehow. Jon is less enthusiastic about adding holes.

"Bring back am's being able to receive merch for cashing in a pro division! "

done


Are you serial?
If so, SWEEET!!!

I think "sympathy for players who would be left out" is the biggest factor, not extra cash. Those who have sympathy in these situations add holes. Those who don't turn folks away.


There's room for intelligent people to disagree on what constitutes "sympathy", but I'll praise the TD's that show sympathy for those that signed up early, expecting to play 18 solid holes of golf in foursomes by not adding additional players beyond the advertised cap.

I think "sympathy for players who would be left out" is the biggest factor, not extra cash. Those who have sympathy in these situations add holes. Those who don't turn folks away.


There's room for intelligent people to disagree on what constitutes "sympathy", but I'll praise the TD's that show sympathy for those that signed up early, expecting to play 18 solid holes of golf in foursomes by not adding additional players beyond the advertised cap.



I think leaving it up to the individual tournament directors and seeing how they handle it is best. If a TD is able to work an extra hole or two in seamlessly, more power to them. If there's problems, the players won't come back the next time. Let the market decide. I guarantee that the players who started thier second round at 4 PM, received their awards in the dark, and left the park at 9:30 PM as happened in one such event which added extra holes a few months ago will think twice about attending that event in the future.

I think "sympathy for players who would be left out" is the biggest factor, not extra cash. Those who have sympathy in these situations add holes. Those who don't turn folks away.


There's room for intelligent people to disagree on what constitutes "sympathy", but I'll praise the TD's that show sympathy for those that signed up early, expecting to play 18 solid holes of golf in foursomes by not adding additional players beyond the advertised cap.



word. starting promptly at the advertised time is another way the TD can have sympathy for those who were courteous enough to get there on time.

fivesomes suck!

serial for 08, yes

serial for 08, yes



And the lines between Pro and Am get even more muddied... :(

pat- any idea when we may get a summary of these changes rather than the occasional hint from you or chuck?

serial for 08, yes



And the lines between Pro and Am get even more muddied... :(



No, it keeps amateurs amateurs. They can test the waters whenever they like knowing that they can win some plastic if they play really well, so they don't feel like they're wasting their money. Everyone knows that they're am's when they stand up and say, "I'll decline the cash and take the funny money." Less people will be pressured into becoming 930 rated "pros".

This is a really good thing that the BOD has recognized the mistake to go away from am's being able to win merch in pro divisions and will be re-instating the policy.

pro players like it cuz it builds their purse. am players like it cuz they can test the waters with at least some chance of a modest payout. TDs luv it cuz they make a profit from a pro division entrant's fee for a change.

the only guy who doesnt like it is the 943-rated ******* who turned Pro for a $40 payout this year. (oh wait, thats me :) )

the line between pro and am is not even a line anymore. our current structure simply cannot support a clear line. we will need a completely separate program for the line to come into focus. MSDGC, USDGC, SNDG, Players Cup, and other events that are (pretty much) Open Only and require qualification are moving in the right direction for this to happen. hopefully the PDGA will make sure we keep up with this movement.