what is the most overstable disc out there, looking for a good forehand and forehand roller disc.

Well you don't want the mos overstable disc then because you wouldn't even be able to throw it.

I would say that a spirit is about as overstable as it gets when it comes to distance drivers.

speed demon

speed demon




Out of production........

Z Predator or MAX

My forehand roller recommendation is a Champ Monster X. They have a nice thick rim, stable enough to resist a LOT of snap, really nice for that particular throw, if not necessarily as overstable as some other discs.

Second the Champion Monster X. Good for thumbers too. I like em light. 167-169

Well you don't want the mos overstable disc then because you wouldn't even be able to throw it.



I definitely agree with this! There's a myth out there that it's desireable to use wicked-overstable discs for forehand shots.

Compared to throwing backhand, it's much easier to put unwanted off-axis rotation on a forehand shot. This results in disc fluttering, which causes the disc to flip over more than wanted. Using very overstable discs will mask this form flaw in the short run, which will slow the development of good form.

Scott Stokely wisely recommends in his videos that the best way to learn the forehand is by practicing with an MRV (or roc, or buzz, or element). Play catch with a midrange from 150-200 ft. Get the disc to fly dead-nuts straight over and over and over. This shot is extremely useful for driving on short, tight holes (the benefit of facing the target and minimizing the body rotation is great for hitting gaps). It is also mandatory for having a great scramble game escaping from lies that preclude a run-up. And the most important reason is that it teaches one how to throw accurately and efficiently.

Once the 200 ft., straight mid-range shot has been mastered, move up to a faster disc like a leopard or xl and then to a surge or wraith. Only after mastering the slower, less stable discs try cranking hard on the overstable plastic.

Take a look at the Discraft Pro Clinic - Forehand Drives (http://www.discraft.com/vid/html/mediaplayer.html)
and also at Mark Ellis' Team Discraft Profile (http://www.discraft.com/team_ellis.html) and notice that Mark's primary driver is a Crush (fairly overstable, but not wickedly so) and also read his comments on how is gets great results throwing the Flash sidearm.

most overstable-clear flat top spirit or a Z xtreme

E spirits, Z flicks, Z Predators make great forehand drivers and rollers

most overstable-clear flat top spirit or a Z xtreme

E spirits, Z flicks, Z Predators make great forehand drivers and rollers




The funny thing is that the Clear spirits you are talking about arent the most overstable spirits ever. There were (there still may be some I missed) clear spirits that were so flat that they just stayed in the shop and weren't ever sold. I threw a few and the only way you could get distance was on a high spike hyzer because if thrown flat it would turn left right into the ground.

I have a week old monster (175) and works better for fh drives and fh rollers. I was throwing rollers with my firebird between350-400ft, and with the monster they are around 425-475ft. But i can still flip it if i throw hard enough. I figured if i had something even more overstable i could throw a fh roller 500+ consistantly. I can throw a javelin 210ft and a tomahawk 350-390ft, so i have a strong arm. thanks for the replies.

Speed Demons (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13) have been discontinued, but the Speed Demon DT (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12)s are still in production.

Still have a few of the flat top Ice Clear E Spirit (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=52)s left too.

Z-Flick...hands down

Speed Demons (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13) have been discontinued, but the Speed Demon DT (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12)s are still in production.

Still have a few of the flat top Ice Clear E Spirit (http://gatewayunderground.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=52)s left too.



Yeah but the DTs aren't as overstable. Anyway a Spirit is almost exactly like the speed demon.

Those are the ones from the shop...the ones that are perfectly flat. Justin sent me 2 of them :p

Scorcher!

I had an opaque white spirit with a gummy rubber feeling E plastic that on a roller anhyzer angle would barrell over into a hyzer within 200 feet. Sold it for a couple bucks and the guy lost it. I just stick with Champ Firebirds for all my overstable needs now since they are so consistent even after months of wear and tear. I do have a SoCal DX TeeRex that is awesome overstable tho for long hyzers into wind

Those are the ones from the shop...the ones that are perfectly flat. Justin sent me 2 of them :p



Does the top actually dome in instead of out? If so that is them and they have a weird tint. I was supposed to trash all of them I found so i guess there were a few that survived.

I can throw a javelin 210ft and a tomahawk 350-390ft, so i have a strong arm.



i bet the javelin is the best headwind driver of them all. pretty straight flyer in the wind too.

I don't think it passed rigidity standards for pdga approval

Z Xtreme or the 10X Whippet Xs that Avery throws!!!

If you have a Star Monster, try to find a Champion Monster with a noticeable (at least to me) lip to the edge of the rim (underside of the outermost part of the disc). They feel like a Firebird or TeeBird.

Those are the Monster Xes. That's the bestest foolproof overstable driver I have found and can throw a long way.

I second Z extreme and Speed Demon.

And for those saying Z Flicks, they are just fast and you cant handle them ;-). They are much straighter for me than any other disc mentioned if I put all i got on one. And I have seen other guys hyzer flip them.

And for those saying Z Flicks, they are just fast and you cant handle them ;-). They are much straighter for me than any other disc mentioned if I put all i got on one. And I have seen other guys hyzer flip them.


Flicks vary quite a bit in stability from Spirit-like to Tee-Rexish. The longest disc I've got now is a nicely seasoned Flick.

my 1st run Flick cannot be flipped unless thrown flat into a V strong headwind.


my vote goes to Z Xtreme, and its not even close IMO for drivers. the Whippet is up there but unless you throw 500+ its an approach disc.

Z Extreme is the most overstable disc I've thrown.

I like over stable discs. Love Flicks. The Speed Demon is the most overstable disc I've ever thrown and it's almost useless.

slow:Z Extreme
Fast: Clear E Spirit

I've thrown many versions of all the other ones mentioned and they don't hold a candle to these two. Neither are in my bag. My favorite overstable discs are Z Predators, Spirits, and Firebirds because they still actually FLY.

RAM, that is all

: ) :

cfr viper, z extreme

Millenium 4.1 Tachyon LF, although discontinued long ago.

Z-Xtremes, Speed Demons, Spirits, and 4.1's are all pretty much equal when it comes to stability. MAJOR PIGS!

Wasn't a Tachyon LF a Viper in Millenium plastic? And if so, what was a Tachyon LS based on...perhaps a Raven?

Z EXTREME

Wasn't a Tachyon LF a Viper in Millenium plastic? And if so, what was a Tachyon LS based on...perhaps a Raven?


I always thought this was the case, but my perception was that 4.1s were a little more overstable than vipers, it seemed especially the 150 gr. Tachyons.

those 150 tachyons were sick. i do believe they were from the viper mold. the cfr vipers from a couple of years back were similarly overstable- much moreso than dx vipers, even the metalheads.

So...the more overstable a disc is the shorter the flight in calm conditions...as it'll turn hard and prevent glide.

Which will go farther: a Z-Xtreme, a CFR Viper, or a Demon G5i (midrange)?

So...the more overstable a disc is the shorter the flight in calm conditions...as it'll turn hard and prevent glide.

Which will go farther: a Z-Xtreme, a CFR Viper, or a Demon G5i (midrange)?



Demon.

The spirits is great because it has a ton of glide for an overstable disc. this is one reason its even good down wind

never thrown the demon but i can throw the z extreme farther than the cfr viper. (but can't throw either very far!!)

monster-x!! get it nice n light too...165-168

So...the more overstable a disc is the shorter the flight in calm conditions...as it'll turn hard and prevent glide.

Which will go farther: a Z-Xtreme, a CFR Viper, or a Demon G5i (midrange)?



Demon.

The spirits is great because it has a ton of glide for an overstable disc. this is one reason its even good down wind



I don't know about that! I have seen Z Xtremes bombed 500ft.........and the only demons I have seen go really big were beat up.

I don't know about that! I have seen Z Xtremes bombed 500ft


That's just sick and wrong.

I don't know about that! I have seen Z Xtremes bombed 500ft


That's just sick and wrong.




Yeah it is! Especially when you have to play with the guy all the time and he makes your drives look WEAK!

You talking about Robbie?

You talking about Robbie?



Yeah! He throws an Extreme as far as my BIG drives. :D

Yeah he's got sick D. When you have an arm like that there is no such thing as overstable :D

Yeah he's got sick D. When you have an arm like that there is no such thing as overstable :D



TTrue now hopefully the D will be and advantage for us at world dubs. :D

Just tell him to throw over the top of everything and you all should tear it up :D

Just tell him to throw over the top of everything and you all should tear it up :D



Yeah and luckily enough I know the courses well. :D

Robbie was throwing at Skylands this weekend, and let me say, he might be the biggest gun i have ever seen...The weird thing is he was asking BORG for advice...

Those are the ones from the shop...the ones that are perfectly flat. Justin sent me 2 of them :p



Does the top actually dome in instead of out? If so that is them and they have a weird tint. I was supposed to trash all of them I found so i guess there were a few that survived.



I think I have one of these too.

CFR Viper is the most overstable disc I've thrown.

I use Firebirds for sidearms, flick rollers, and thumbers. Can't go wrong.

I've thrown Speed Demons and Spirts, but my vote would still go to the Z-Xtreme. Now imagine throwing any of those three here in Colorado where the altitude makes everything even more overstable!

Man, I used to throw some ridiculously sharp, twisting s-curves with a Z-Xtreme! Start it on a hard anhyzer line and then have it roll hard and bite back at the end. Fun to watch, but I just never really needed that shot during play...

nanook

Those are the ones from the shop...the ones that are perfectly flat. Justin sent me 2 of them :p



Does the top actually dome in instead of out? If so that is them and they have a weird tint. I was supposed to trash all of them I found so i guess there were a few that survived.



I think I have one of these too.



A guy I play with uses one of these and routinely throws it 400' forehand. He punches it out on a slight anny and it immediatly gets flat and it hyzers into the ground at about 320', and then skips foreward and right another 80'! I am reasonably suspicious about the weight of the disc because my friend got an identical one from JohnE and it weighs over 200 grams.

I think you guys have another run than the one I am talking about because I don't believe they can fly anywhere near 320ft. Also Dave told kid and everyone else at the shop that they were not to be sold and while I was there none of them were sold and finally all of them were reground.

There were other runs of clear spirits that were really overstable so maybe that's what you got.

I'll see if i can post a pic later but I know for a fact that the I've never gotten one of these out past 320. I throw pulses over 425 backhand and 360 forehand and the only thing this can really be used for is spikes hyzers. I actually carry this in the car just to see if anyone can really get it out past 300. Its funny to watch some of the guys try to throw these high spike annys and the disc coming crashing back to earth at 200 feet :D

I'll see if i can post a pic later but I know for a fact that the I've never gotten one of these out past 320. I throw pulses over 425 backhand and 360 forehand and the only thing this can really be used for is spikes hyzers. I actually carry this in the car just to see if anyone can really get it out past 300. Its funny to watch some of the guys try to throw these high spike annys and the disc coming crashing back to earth at 200 feet :D



Now THAT might be one but Discspeeds is probably not.

Yup it also turns right with a forehand roller instead of rolling straight and turning left

what is the most overstable disc out there, looking for a good forehand and forehand roller disc.


.
.
RAM 180g ... nuff said

I'll see if i can post a pic later but I know for a fact that the I've never gotten one of these out past 320. I throw pulses over 425 backhand and 360 forehand and the only thing this can really be used for is spikes hyzers. I actually carry this in the car just to see if anyone can really get it out past 300. Its funny to watch some of the guys try to throw these high spike annys and the disc coming crashing back to earth at 200 feet :D



Now THAT might be one but Discspeeds is probably not.




I'm talking about the ones Mike Barnett (Sun King) and JohnE McCray had. I doubt that Dave ever did another run of clear, flat Spirits. I remember at the Red Hawk course some of the Gateway guys and I were playing with a stack of these. I got one out 340' or so starting out with a completely vertical anhyzer release. It was fun as well as a great lat workout! Lenny Gomez really throws these 400' forehand, but he used to play college baseball and has a cannon!

1st run spirits were rediculously overstable.

I will have to go with a max weight ram for the most overstable disc, but the most overstable disc that I throw is the champion whippet x and those are pretty overstable.

I'll see if i can post a pic later but I know for a fact that the I've never gotten one of these out past 320. I throw pulses over 425 backhand and 360 forehand and the only thing this can really be used for is spikes hyzers. I actually carry this in the car just to see if anyone can really get it out past 300. Its funny to watch some of the guys try to throw these high spike annys and the disc coming crashing back to earth at 200 feet :D



Now THAT might be one but Discspeeds is probably not.




I'm talking about the ones Mike Barnett (Sun King) and JohnE McCray had. I doubt that Dave ever did another run of clear, flat Spirits. I remember at the Red Hawk course some of the Gateway guys and I were playing with a stack of these. I got one out 340' or so starting out with a completely vertical anhyzer release. It was fun as well as a great lat workout! Lenny Gomez really throws these 400' forehand, but he used to play college baseball and has a cannon!



Did they have stamps? Anyway I know that these weren't the same ones because Johnny didn't get any and if he did it wasn't a whole stack because these were never supposed to leave the shop and to my knowledge only about 5 did.

They were clear/milky without stamps. Most had some sort of swirls/bubbles at the injection sites. JohnE sold a couple, but Sun King had a whole box of them. They were also really stiff.

Matt,
I believe these are from the run that your speaking of as when we launched GatewayUnderground.com (http://www.gatewayunderground.com), Dave gave us just about every prototype, misprint and factory second disc from the shop. I even have a giant stack of Hatchets (proto Demons).

~Mike Barnett

Mike,
What does the lower wing look like on those hatchets? Are they the nearly flat wing or the ones with the pronounced scoop to them? Also what kind of weight ranges (basically do you have heavies)?

There should be some max weight and even some that are too heavy for pdga play ( like <180)

what is the most overstable midrange disc?

what is the most overstable midrange disc?



Gateway Evolution Demon :eek:

depends on what you consider a midrange.
rhynos are pretty overstable, very wind-resistant, and skip well (have a skip-ace with one at WW)
Champ gators are pretty overstable and wind-resistant
Evo-demons are really overstable and skip well
Champ Whippets and Vipers (especially Viper-X) are retarded overstable, kinda like a shorter spirit, great for thumbers

what is the most overstable midrange disc?



Discraft's Drone or Gateways E-Demon

The champion Gator is the most overstable midrange I've ever thrown. It has absolutely no glide either. Its kinda like a slower firebird...

E demon hands down

I would go with s demons. I've had 2 e demons from early runs and the were not anywhere close to the S. A headwind could flip them and not nearly as lss. These were both super domey and rock hard. they may have changed, but I was let down with the E.

I love the Gator too ... however, the S Demon is much more overstable throughout the whole flight.

The cfr champion gator x's are quite a bit more stable than the old champion gators as well. The new cfr champion vipers are pretty stable as well. I have a few that I am looking to sell if anyone is interested.

Discaft Drone. I've seen S Demons flip easily in a headwind, but a Drone just stays to the left. Heck, my ELX holds up better in a headwind than a Demon.

how are the new cfr gators more overstable than the old ones? they are the same mold and same plastic?

...ain't no midrange more overstable than a Demon in my experience.

OK, what's new ... two different people have opposite opinions of the same disc.

I tried the Drone when it first came out, and I didn't find it "very" overstable. I had Wasps in my bag that were more overstable than a Drone. And what I really, really didn't like about the Drone was it's only available in D plastic. They were soft, and had huge gouges in them right away. But then, playing the rocky rough courses here in CO, you have to be aware that your disc may get dinged up pretty quickly.

I'll stick with the Demon. But seriously, the CFR Vipers I have are even more overstable than the Demon ... They are sick-overstable piggies.

OK, what's new ... two different people have opposite opinions of the same disc.

I tried the Drone when it first came out, and I didn't find it "very" overstable. I had Wasps in my bag that were more overstable than a Drone. And what I really, really didn't like about the Drone was it's only available in D plastic. They were soft, and had huge gouges in them right away. But then, playing the rocky rough courses here in CO, you have to be aware that your disc may get dinged up pretty quickly.

I'll stick with the Demon. But seriously, the CFR Vipers I have are even more overstable than the Demon ... They are sick-overstable piggies.




CFR Viper for retarded overstable win. Man what a big ol' honkin' overstable piggster. Nothing like that hardcore bastage at all.

CFR VIPER

okay how did we get from comparing midranges to throwing in vipers?

midrange - s demon (the flatter ones). i don't know who was flipping demons, but i promise you that demon was beat up badly.

overall - still have to say flat top spirit. i haven't thrown the CFR viper though. i know the other vipers aren't even close.

Im the one who started this thread.. and since i have tried alot of discs and here my rankings for each category
Drivers- 1-Clear flat top spirit by far is #1 (you can try and throw a back hand roller and it will come out into a hyzer within 30ft)
2- E-speed demon
3- Monster-x

Fairway drivers 1- CFR VIPER
2- CE whippet-x

Midranges
1- CE gator
2-s demon

What i found to be the best forehand roller is a simple max weight CE firebird, with fresh cut grass it will go 470-500ft

just to be fair, the cfr viper is more of a long mid range than a fairway dirver, the one i throw is so beat in i only have to give it about 45degrees of anhyzer to throw a straightish shot. not so easy to get these things out past 350 but its definetitly possible

From my experience with midranges:

1. S Demon (by far)
2. Drone
3. Champ Gator

For drivers, the most overstable I have ever thrown was an E Speed Demon. Nothing else has been close. It was hilariously overstable, you could release 90 degrees anhyzer and it would flip immediately.

edit: by the way, I think the Demon mold has changed. The newer ones have much less of a concave wing. It is almost straight on the newer ones.

they are actually a gator x. I have several first run gators and they do not have nearly the bead or the dome that the gator x's have.

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!

I have seen thumbers well over 350' (Not Mine...just happen to be at the right place at the right time)

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!



Although i'm set for life with a closet full of them, i'd still like to see D-craft re-release them, maybe even a limited edition much like the Timmy Gill NT Z-Xtremes.

I have several aces with the Xtreme mold. Here's the most recent one from 3 weeks ago worth 7.5 bills.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1066/dscn5844aw4.jpg

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!



Although i'm set for life with a closet full of them, i'd still like to see D-craft re-release them, maybe even a limited edition much like the Timmy Gill NT Z-Xtremes.

I have several aces with the Xtreme mold. Here's the most recent one from 3 weeks ago worth 7.5 bills.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1066/dscn5844aw4.jpg



I have a red one of those bad boy's in the bag that I hope doubles that price tonight!!! :D

I have a few cfr Vipers for sale if anyone wants any. they are all 181. they are all brand new.

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!

I have seen thumbers well over 350' (Not Mine...just happen to be at the right place at the right time)



I've seen it thrown 500' quite a few times.

The DevilHawk X !

I have an Illusion that is kind of a light purple color.

It is brick hard and it is crazy overstable, at least that is how I remember it, I haven' thrown it in forever...

Anyone know about the ones I am talking about?

It may have a Mid America stamp on it....

Discraft EliteZ Xtreme....Great for forehand rollers....they go long!!! :eek:

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!

I have seen thumbers well over 350' (Not Mine...just happen to be at the right place at the right time)



I've seen it thrown 500' quite a few times.



You have seen someone thumber it 500ft? or backhand?

I have an Illusion that is kind of a light purple color.

It is brick hard and it is crazy overstable, at least that is how I remember it, I haven' thrown it in forever...

yeah i have a white one that is super overstable and stiff. The new ones are more like a wraith rather than a monster.
yeah i have a white one and it is an overstable mother, but the new illusions are more like a wraith instead of a monster as far as stablilty.
Anyone know about the ones I am talking about?

It may have a Mid America stamp on it....

The out of production EliteZ Extreme!!!!!!

I have seen thumbers well over 350' (Not Mine...just happen to be at the right place at the right time)



I've seen it thrown 500' quite a few times.



You have seen someone thumber it 500ft? or backhand?



Backhand.

Does anyone have a rediculously overstable e spirit they are willing to part with? I throw a monster thumber and I would love to try one of these.

Let me know.

Jordan

I have an Illusion that is kind of a light purple color.

It is brick hard and it is crazy overstable, at least that is how I remember it, I haven' thrown it in forever...

Anyone know about the ones I am talking about?

It may have a Mid America stamp on it....



it's probably a spirit. maybe a proto S or H spirit. they were insanely overstable. a lot of older spirits have illusion stamps for some reason. i really have no idea why, but i've seen several.

I have an Illusion that is kind of a light purple color.

It is brick hard and it is crazy overstable, at least that is how I remember it, I haven' thrown it in forever...

Anyone know about the ones I am talking about?

It may have a Mid America stamp on it....



it's probably a spirit. maybe a proto S or H spirit. they were insanely overstable. a lot of older spirits have illusion stamps for some reason. i really have no idea why, but i've seen several.



that would make sense because it is retarded overstable for dx material.