krazyeye
Jun 16 2007, 06:52 PM
Are tournament directors allowed to play in thier own events?
bruce_brakel
Jun 16 2007, 08:13 PM
Yes, and it usually diminishes the tournament experience for everyone else.
junnila
Jun 16 2007, 09:18 PM
Yes, and it usually diminishes the tournament experience for everyone else.
Not at the Majestic. I didn't play this year, but helped out along with the other 25 or so staff members.
krazyeye
Jun 16 2007, 09:51 PM
Yes, and it usually diminishes the tournament experience for everyone else.
We have about four gouys taking turns running the tournaments in the area this year. They are under the assumption that it is a rule they can't play while TDing. One open player sat a tournament out to be the TD but in my honest opinion the tournament would not have been diminished had he played. Lots of folks in the club stepped up to help out.
discette
Jun 16 2007, 10:21 PM
I believe the rule is for B & A Tiers that you need at least one non-playing Certified Official.
The Memorial is run by Dan Ginnely. That is an awesome event that does not suffer in any way.
Tim Gill plays in most of his events, like the Minnesota Majestic.
Doug Peyton in Cedar Rapids plays and runs fantastic events.
Maybe it depends how organized and experienced the TD is and the quality of volunteers helping out.
krazyeye
Jun 16 2007, 10:23 PM
I believe the rule is for B & A Tiers that you need at least one non-playing Certified Official.
The Memorial is run by Dan Ginnely. That is an awesome event that does not suffer in any way.
Tim Gill plays in most of his events, like the Minnesota Majestic.
Doug Peyton in Cedar Rapids plays and runs fantastic events.
Maybe it depends how organized and experienced the TD is and the quality of volunteers helping out.
If there is a rule I'd like to see it. Is it a recommendation or a requirement?
discette
Jun 16 2007, 10:31 PM
2007 PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/07TourStandards.pdf)
Table 1 on Page 4 outlines the requirements.
denny1210
Jun 16 2007, 10:45 PM
Keith Johnson used to set all the portable baskets out in the morning for a temp course used for his supertour, play a round, do scores between rounds, play another round, bring all the portable baskets back in, do scores again and then sleep three hours and repeat the process.
I had a hard time believing that he was only one guy. It started to feel like the episode of the Flinstones when there were hundreds of alien doubles of Fred roaming around all saying "yabba dabba do" in unison.
krazyeye
Jun 16 2007, 11:30 PM
2007 PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/07TourStandards.pdf)
Table 1 on Page 4 outlines the requirements.
Well that about sums it up.. Only National and Super tour events require to have nonplaying officials. Nothing at all about TDs not playing. Thanks for directing me to the proper documents.
circlek13783
Jun 17 2007, 06:15 AM
However, if the TD has to make a ruling in his division, then he will have to excuse himself from the tournament. The rules state that an official can not make a call in his/her own division.
krazyeye
Jun 17 2007, 11:09 AM
We have several officials. If people could act like adults I'd think another official would be sufficient.
ck34
Jun 17 2007, 11:24 AM
I believe if the TD is playing in an A-tier or higher, they should pass their rights as the top official to one of their experienced certified officials who would be designated the TD for any rulings that have to be made during play. Once play is completed and the TD is off the course, they would resume their TD position as it relates to preparing payouts and awards for example. At NT events, the PDGA supplies marshals who can fulfill this position as head official.
rhett
Jun 17 2007, 02:13 PM
I believe you can go by the general rule that if the TD plays the event, the event suffers.
There are of course notable exceptions where exceptional TDs are able to play and run an event without any major issues.
For me, I don't play events I TD. But that's because I don't play very well plus I don't feel like I've given my all to running the event. I find myself worrying about event things while I'm playing my rounds, and I find I can't prepare for my rounds (like warming up) while I'm doing the tourney stuff. All in all for me, I like to play when I'm playing and I like to run the tourney when I'm running a tourney. Some people can do both at once well, but I can't. :)
paerley
Jun 17 2007, 05:57 PM
Jeff Schwass has TD'd and played on many occasions, and I don't believe these events suffered from it. The key is having a strong support staff to help. We always have 2-3 extra people helping out, and at least 1 extra certified official in case there's a dispute in his division (not that it's ever come up).
keithjohnson
Jun 18 2007, 12:24 AM
Keith Johnson used to set all the portable baskets out in the morning for a temp course used for his supertour, play a round, do scores between rounds, play another round, bring all the portable baskets back in, do scores again and then sleep three hours and repeat the process.
I had a hard time believing that he was only one guy. It started to feel like the episode of the Flinstones when there were hundreds of alien doubles of Fred roaming around all saying "yabba dabba do" in unison.
thank god pepsi is not on the pdga "policy" list as a banned substance at events :D
keithjohnson
Jun 18 2007, 12:30 AM
I believe you can go by the general rule that if the TD plays the event, the event suffers.
There are of course notable exceptions where exceptional TDs are able to play and run an event without any major issues.
Some people can do both at once well, but I can't. :)
of course rhett is just upset that i flew across the country, helped tim selinske set up and helped run the golden state classic, played 18 holes of par 65 golf(shooting over that mark :mad:)the first day then whipped him by 17 strokes 4 hours later the same day :Dtaking the dbod from him in the process....
so you must excuse his bitterness to td's playing :D:D:D:D
JedidiahBibby
Jun 18 2007, 03:21 PM
I believe the rule is for B & A Tiers that you need at least one non-playing Certified Official.
I believe the rule is that all A-Tier Tournaments (and equivalents) need to have one non-playing tournament official.
I alos don't feel that a TD playing in a tournament hurts the event either. I believe that if the TD has the support staff, and prepares well, then the tournament will run smoothly (if staff is experienced) no matter what. However, at the sametime I am not able to play extremely well when I run a tournament simply from the stress and exhaustion from running the event.
Jroc
Jun 18 2007, 03:53 PM
my feeling exactly
Gee, I've played in every event I TD'd. Except the ladies only events and the rec only events. I don't think anyone's experience was diminished. Maybe I should revisit this with some of the players though.
Still, I disagree with the blanket statements above. I've played in many events where the TD played and I didn't feel the events suffered.
MTL21676
Jun 18 2007, 07:30 PM
it's hard enough to get a guy to run a tournament....then telling him he can't play it either....would just lower the ammount of TDs
gnduke
Jun 18 2007, 10:51 PM
It really depends on the size of the event and number of non-playing staff.
I am the TD for the Atlanta Open and in the last three years it has gone from an C - B - and this year to an A tier. I can tell you this, I have always played in tournaments that I run (which is about ten PDGA), but after running the AO with 144 players from 14 different states, I will never play in an A tier that I am TDing. Three hours sleep a night for four straight nights, having to deal with drama, scoring/uploading scores, water on course, sponsorship tee signs, non-stop responding to the same questions over &over& over& over again (even though there is a sign right beside me answering the questions) these are just a few of the reasons it is not a good idea to try to compete in an A tier if you are the TD. I know in the past that most Worlds TDs play, but they have more than enough help to off set the stress.
Tim Gill does a great job with the Majestic, but I played in it three years ago and after the first couple of rounds he was in the hunt and then tournament stress set in. Point being, no matter how prepared you are as a TD you are going to have late nights and stress. You are better off not playing in an A tier if you are the TD. After all of the work that i put into the Atlanta Open I wanted to play, but I learned my lesson and I will simply be the TD from now on. If you are running a B tier you can pull it off a lot easier though.
johnrock
Jun 19 2007, 11:03 AM
I sure agree with all of that. I've played in the events that I run also, but that may be coming to an end. What I run into is the fact that a lot of work goes into setting up our course before the event, which means a LOT of walking. By the time the event is over, my knees are really screaming from all of the walking and work the past 4-5 days. And with the added pressure of trying to be competitive (who wants to just watch the other 15-20 Pros play?), coupled with the stress of Administration duties, the mental game takes a beating.
Jroc
Jun 19 2007, 11:37 AM
Watching Matt this year at the Shootout really made up my mind about not playing my event this weekend. He really looked ragged by Sunday evening.
Plus, there is a tournament the next weekend in a nearby town. So, I can get my disc golf tournament fix then. :)
gottagothrow
Jun 19 2007, 01:21 PM
Rand,
I played the AO and was quite pleased with the way it was run.
I personally don't understand why TDs want to play in their
own tourney so bad (and I don't agree with it). But the AO
was run without a hitch. ESP for the 1st "A" tier.
Just wish I played ERP better...sighhh.
DD
There's a "mental game"? :)
Tournament stress is fun, isn't it?
I'm just having fun with you. It is difficult to do it all, and it really helps to have a great bunch of people behind the event.
Also my events are attended by a lot of helpful players and friends. It's way cool when a top pro or am lady sits down to help check scores in other divisions.
Side games help distract the masses during number crunch time. (more helpful players to run this too.)
So what I'm saying is if you are at an event and your mental game is strong enough.(or doesn't exist) it's nice to help out.
Oh, and always bring a gift for the TD. I started doing this a while back, and it's always nice to give a little something.