Turbo Putt Proto from Quest (http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=turbo_proto)

I found a use for the brick couldn't hurt to try this one :D

No way that gets approved.

It already is

It already is



You're right.

Pretty funny looking ... but I get it.

I consider myself to have a strong Pizza Toss being that it the only way I putt and the one question I would have is how soft is that plastic, because to me it looks **** hard.

If it's relatively soft I'll probably get one.
Guess I'll have to e-mail Marshall St.

We had many requests by players to make a disc to make Turbo Putting easier to grip. With the various suggestions we had, this is the design we came up with. The proto-type run, which is the one Marshall Street has now, is a little stiffer, but we might make one softer, like the 10 M Brick and Crossfire. The Spiral on the bottom is for a thumb grip, so it works both lefthanded and right handed, and the grooves on the side are for your fingers.

Bricks no longer a Top seller? Looks like they need to go in and manipulate thier list again.

The "Twist" putt is upside down. The "Turbo Twist" is rightside up.

I found a use for the brick couldn't hurt to try this one :D



Looks like thay made the final cog for your giant gateway/quest robot Landon!

NOW YOU CAN TAKEOVER THE WORLD!!!!! well at least Shillito

Embarrassing.

Why does Marshall Street 'tank' on this stuff...?

I'm not down for shilly... I've already got that one on lock down. My next target is vets MUUUUAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAAH. :P

Instead of engineering/designing weird discs for weird throwing styles, don't you think "we" should be working on improving the basket?

I'd think there would be more money in that too...

Don't get me wrong, I dig the innovative ideas that Gateway/Quest are trying, I just wonder if your creativity/innovation could be applied in a more meaningful way that would have more impact. Y'all obviously have some engineering skills, which cannot be underestimated in a small industry such as the golf disc business. Just a thought...

-E

P.S. I do product development for a living.

Double checking to see if it is April 1st or something...

[QUOTE]
Double checking to see if it is April 1st or something... [/quote


Gateway did that! The Titan Pro is the best basket on the Market!

I have a scream DT Quest plastic and it is harder than a mo fo

My buddy showed up with a Turbo Putt proto at my house on Friday, that and another one which I can't recall the name (more of a Aero like mid range disc but smaller..in yellow). I haven't really tried turbo putting much but with that grip its pretty awesome to hold the disc firmly. It certainly would give turbo putting a cleaner delivery for unseasoned folks like me. Nice feel of the plastic too.

I practiced with a 164g Turbo Friday night for 10-20 minutes. It is fun to throw. I didn't turbo with it. I can't really turbo. I putted with it backhand. Lots of fun, it sticks to the chains and stays in the basket. I don't think this disc could ever spit out or spit through. If they run them in the 170's I may pick one up.

edit: KVN also had a 193gram supersoft version. Really soft and floppy.

This disc should be decertified. It would spawn a whole spectrum of discs that should not be in the game. There are two problems. The first is safety. Because of spin, the rim speed of a disc can be far higher than its forward speed. Any projections on the rim can cause serious cuts and gashes, especially because the major cutting forces will have a shearing component in addition to simple compression.

The second is that it is not, strictly speaking, a disc. At issue here is the interpretation of the term "disclike" in the specification protocol, which obviously needs to be sharpened. I would like this to mean, at the very least, round in horizontal cross-section. A simple, unambiguous, term is "radially symmetric".

I'm a traditionalist on this one. The present disc technology allows adequate creativity. It has already advanced to the point that older courses are being made obsolete. If we don't outlaw radical shape innovation, we will end up with a bizarre assortment of things that don't look much like discs and which could (like the aerobie if we allowed it) make all previous discs and throwing skills obsolete, as well as courses.

I posted on the Peter Shive thread before I saw this in the Equipment section. The disc does not meet the published tech standards. The standards have requirements regarding the radius and diameter of a disc. Only a circle has a radius. The radius is the distance from the circumference to the point that is equidistant to all points on the circumference and in the same plane as all the points on the circumference. This disc does not have a radius or a circumference. It should never have been approved.

This disc should be decertified. It would spawn a whole spectrum of discs that should not be in the game. There are two problems. The first is safety. Because of spin, the rim speed of a disc can be far higher than its forward speed. Any projections on the rim can cause serious cuts and gashes, especially because the major cutting forces will have a shearing component in addition to simple compression.

The second is that it is not, strictly speaking, a disc. At issue here is the interpretation of the term "disclike" in the specification protocol, which obviously needs to be sharpened. I would like this to mean, at the very least, round in horizontal cross-section. A simple, unambiguous, term is "radially symmetric".

I'm a traditionalist on this one. The present disc technology allows adequate creativity. It has already advanced to the point that older courses are being made obsolete. If we don't outlaw radical shape innovation, we will end up with a bizarre assortment of things that don't look much like discs and which could (like the aerobie if we allowed it) make all previous discs and throwing skills obsolete, as well as courses.



as an answer to your first "problem", the Turbo putt has a blunt nose. if you're worried about cuts, any driver will cut you much easier than this disc will. As a pure putter, you also won't be throwing it quite as hard as any other driver/midrange.

As for your 2nd "problem" I really can't argue against your feelings on different discs, but the Turbo putt is radial symmetric. The grips on the outside of the disc are exactly the same dimentions all the way across.

In ball golf, clubs and balls aren't "approved" Every ball and club can be used in tournament play, until it is challenged. If it is challenged, then it is sent in for "approval". As long as it follows the guidlines for clubs or balls, they are approved. So if no one ever challenges a club, it wil never be "approved" but it will be tournament legal.

Course length is becoming obsolete, as the newer and longer drivers are allowing long par 4's and short par 5's to be reached in 1 stroke. There is also technology that is changing swings, and newer players are learning the new swings.

In disc golf, if a disc isn't "approved" it is not tournament legal, as you may already know. And as long as it follows the guidelines that are specified, they will be approved. If you start changing guidelines, then other discs will come into question, such as with Chings discs with the "grips" on the top, or Discraft with their Groovetrack, or any disc with dimples on them.

Just like in Ball golf, Discs will be able to reach new distances, and newer players will always change the style that they are throwing. Older players will continue to throw the way they learned, so old throwing techniques won't be obsoleted, neither will older discs. But if someone comes up with a better disc, and people don't need old discs, is it really a bad thing if old discs become obsolete? The sport is progressing, things will change. More people will be playing, courses will be longer, throwing techniques will change.

I'm sure Ball golfers didn't like things changing when it was growing, but it's survived, and is thriving so much that millions of people play it. I'm sure if they can survive, Disc golf can too.

American Heritage Dictionary:
1.c A line segment that joins the center of a regular polygon with any of its vertices.

i.e. A square has a radius.

Wikipedia:
More generally�in geometry, engineering, graph theory, and many other contexts�the radius of something (e.g., a cylinder, a polygon, a graph, or a mechanical part) is the distance from its center or axis of symmetry to its outermost points. In this case, the radius may be more than half the diameter.

A bolt is an example of this. The shaft of a bolt has a radius even though the distance from the center to the edge is not constant. For a bolt the diameter < 2*radius.

I do not think one can argue this on definitions. The tech standards will need to change if the Turbo is not to be an approved disc.

Then be looking for the square putter. It's definately next.

Maybe so...if it works go with it :p

I actually applaud Quest for getting innovative on this. Just because nobody else thought of the idea first doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried and done. Not everything will succeed as I'm sure Quest understands. Its still a wing type approach to "flying" but it has an "irregular" approach to the gripping of the disc. Other discs as the Quest poster mentioned use other methods to improve grips on their discs, theirs just happen to be on the top or bottom.

What Quest really did was succeed in radically redesigning the grip for a most often rarely used putting style (looking at the majority of putters out there) and may have developed a new way to ensure a surer chain grab thus widening the sweet spot of a discs approach to the basket. I played tennis for years and the sweet spots on rackets were increased many times over from the old tennis rackets and its lead to more power and accuracy in the game but it was never outlawed just because it was new. I'm a mechanical engineer too and I applaud Quest for their engineering approach to disc design.

Maleyman

Coming from another mechanical engineer; ditto. Since I've been playing I can't tell you how many ideas I've had that I wish I could try (if I had a lathe and mill) on discs just to see what would happen. Of course the quarter K had a lot of CFD (computational fluid dynamics for everyone else) analysis performed on the model and it didn't turn out radically different from any other driver IMO. Anyway, I say innovation is a good thing.

so where can this disc be viewed? the link in the first post doesn't do it.

Turbo Putt image (http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/prodimages/turboputt_big.jpg)

as an answer to your first "problem", the Turbo putt has a blunt nose. if you're worried about cuts, any driver will cut you much easier than this disc will. As a pure putter, you also won't be throwing it quite as hard as any other driver/midrange.


Discs fly, and if this disc has useful flight characteristics, then when useful I will throw it really hard for shots 250 feet and in just like any other putter. So leave the "as a pure putter" argument behind because putters get the crap thrown out them where appropriate, and they aren't just for 30 feet and in lob shots.

I am curious about just how dangerous the "saw blade" cutting-configuration of this disc is. I have no idea if it is more or less dangerous than a driver, but if the sawblade/gear-cog layout is legal for a putter, then it is also legal for a low-profile driver.

Is this disc really already PDGA approved?

Oh, yeah, I want one.

It's on the list:
Approved Discs (http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf)

It's on the list:
Approved Discs (http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf)


Must be a different disc.....that says Tubbo-Putt

I agree, radial symmetry should be required for the approval of any golf disc for competition.

Course length is becoming obsolete, as the newer and longer drivers are allowing long par 4's and short par 5's to be reached in 1 stroke. There is also technology that is changing swings, and newer players are learning the new swings.




Did you mean long par 3's and short par 4's? To me, a long par 4 is going to be in the neighborhood of 700+ feet. I'm not sure what you mean by "swings", are you talking golf or DG?

Homburg has already corrected the spelling error and will provide that version when the next disc is added to the list. It has a more scalloped edge than the Turbo Putt and is supposed to chop thru brush stalks up to 1/16" diameter on the way to the pin. We've been testing it at Highbridge... :D

It's on the list:
Approved Discs (http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf)


Then I can use mine in tournaments once it arrives. :)

The edge is really quite "nubby" and might leave a nubby bruise on ya if you got hit by one but wont cut you. The edges as i recall are similar to a smaller finger thickness and rounded like a finger....might poker yer I out but that's about it.

I only threw it a few times so didn't get a feel for a regular putting throw with it. not sure if the underside spiral interferes with a reverse rotation (right handed, clockwise) vs a turbo which would spin the other direction. Curious if a putter without the spiral would yield a better grabbing ability (hint, hint Quest).

Perhaps get a metal hotstamp that can go on the disc nubs so it could be magentically charged right before throwing to get that extra grip to hang onto the chains.

It's on the list:
Approved Discs (http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf)


Then I can use mine in tournaments once it arrives. :)

Unfortunately, it's designed for right-side-up turbos, not my preferred Turbo Twist! :(

I practiced with a 164g Turbo Friday night for 10-20 minutes. It is fun to throw. I didn't turbo with it. I can't really turbo. I putted with it backhand. Lots of fun, it sticks to the chains and stays in the basket. I don't think this disc could ever spit out or spit through. If they run them in the 170's I may pick one up.

edit: KVN also had a 193gram supersoft version. Really soft and floppy .




Is that a person or company?

I'd be interested in the softer version.

Peace

The edge is really quite "nubby" and might leave a nubby bruise on ya if you got hit by one but wont cut you. The edges as i recall are similar to a smaller finger thickness and rounded like a finger....might poker yer I out but that's about it.


I'll say it again: if this "disc" shape is legal for a putter then the same shape is legal for a low-profile driver. I'm worried the driver might act more like a saw-blade than the putter does.

If this "non disc" shape is legal, then what is illegal? Why wouldn't a boomerang be legal? How about a ceiling fan shape?

How about a table-top fan blade shape with tilted blades? It would basically be the same shape as this new disc except the "nubs" would be more exaggerated.

Where is the line where "disc shaped" ends and "not disc shaped" begins?

Is that a person or company?



Person, KVN Lavey

You have a point, to a degree. However, it will boil down to what the PDGA thinks and they will have to draw the line somewhere, if they haven't already. Also, you have to consider flight characteristics. I doubt this putter flies well with any velocity (I could be wrong). I think you would see recreational discs with more odd shapes if something like a fan blade design worked (they do make three pronged bomerang looking foam flyers but they fly like a bomerang, not well suited for disc golf unless you have a 180 deg. dog leg hole). Anyway, I would doubt the PDGA would allow anything much more radical than this putter in tournament play (again I could be wrong). I don't like the disc per se but I think innovation should be allowed to a degree. The only thing designers have to play with is shape (weight is something not open to opinion) and there are a limited number of ways to manipulate the shape of a sharp-nosed driver, although new profiles are coming out all of the time.

I've thrown it. It flies like a putter. It is slow and a little overstable. I was having fun rolling it. It gets good off-road traction! :D

Put mini chains on it for wintertime rollers! :D

This is absolutley hilarious.

Does the number of nubs matter? That is does any flying object with some nubs work? I've got this boomerang...

Hey, it has two nubs on it. No really, the middle is circular and it does have a radius.

BTW - I'm proposing that we change our name to nub golf.

IMO - the danger factor is a red herring. Any disc thrown at full speed is dangerous. Give it over. The real question would be does the scalloped edge make the disc fly better, i.e. would a driver with a scalloped edge fly better? Doubtful. Therefore it doesn't really change the game much. If you're really, really dependent on the turbo putt, you're probably foolin' yourself if you think this is going to change your world. In competition I've seen the turbo putt used a handful of times. Mainly for almost drop in shots. This disc won't impact the game much at all and I'd be willing to bet all the loose change in my pocket that it will go the way of the Epic.

As long as disc golf requires a polished throwing motion to get distance. Lots of practice to make upshots and putts, then I don't really care what your disc looks like. It should be relatively disc like, simply because we are after all, disc golf.

Put mini chains on it for wintertime rollers! :D



It should be great in the mud... In fact, I'm going to get two for my golf cart!

No, the number of nubs doesn't matter IMO. But, the turbo putter is far more disc like than the bomerang (even the three-pronged one). I agree with you in that discs should be disc-like. Maybe there should be a limit to the difference between the minimum radius and the maximum on any disc. Maybe not. I don't think I would ever use a disc like this so I guess that's why I'm on the fence here. I really don't care if others use it. I couldn't get a turbo put to stick if the disc was made of silly putty anyway.

Would someone who has thrown it say it rolls better than, worse than, or about the same as any other putter?

My logic can't decide if it rolls better because it has less surface area or worse because it doesn't have constant contact.

Congrats to Quest/AT for being innovative in disc design! And to those who say it's not a disc....pa-leeese. It's a disc, with nubs. So what?!? I see nothing wrong with the disc. It is designed to fly in a spinning fashion like all other discs. It is disc shaped and meets all the PDGA regulations. Don't be afraid of the couple small innovative changes.

Personally, I agree that this disc will become a novelty and only used by a small handful of players. By one now and hang it on your wall, it may be valuable some day.

Sorry to DISCagree with many of you,

Maybe there should be a limit to the difference between the minimum radius and the maximum on any disc.


Yeah, like 0.05 cm.

To me, "disc like" implies "constant radius".

constant radius would mean "disc."
"disc LIKE" is something LIKE a disc.

i like to make sense. hope that's okay with everyone.

I got my Turbo Putt yesterday, but didn't get a chance to putt or throw with it yet. I don't understand what the spiral on the bottom is for. When I turbo, I balance the disc on my thumb which means my thumb goes in the middle. Moving my thumb out towards the edge along the spiral just makes the disc fall out of my hand when I bring it up and back.

And as for the nubs cut out of the edge of the disc, I have one question: How in the heck is this thing PDGA approved???

why shouldnt it be approved? it violates no technical standards.

for those who are hung up on discs having to be perfectly round, try thinking of our discs as rotating wings, which is what they really are. nothing says a wing needs to be round.

why shouldnt it be approved? it violates no technical standards.


I think "disc like" is quite a stretch for this one. All IMHO, of course.

I got my Turbo Putt yesterday, but didn't get a chance to putt or throw with it yet. I don't understand what the spiral on the bottom is for. When I turbo, I balance the disc on my thumb which means my thumb goes in the middle. Moving my thumb out towards the edge along the spiral just makes the disc fall out of my hand when I bring it up and back.

And as for the nubs cut out of the edge of the disc, I have one question: How in the heck is this thing PDGA approved???



The spiral in the middle is for gripping with your thumb, instead of letting it just balance on the middle. It is a spiral, to give players with different hand sizes a place to grab, so that it's comfortable.

As for being PDGA approved, their concern is that it is "saucer" like. Some saucers have a similar pattern along the outer edge. Disc like is a little vague also, as the Turbo Putt is a disc.

The Turbo Putt follows all the guidelines, with it being wider than is necessary, there is appropriate rim depth, and it passes the flexibility test. It met every standard that is given in the PDGA rules on what can and can't pass.

I cant wait to check 1 out, everyone that complained about it on here that I have seen so far has purchased 1 so there must be something to it.I dont throw too many turbo putts but wouldnt mind learning a new throw.

I guess I am just too used to balancing the center of the disc and pushing on the back edge. When I try to grip the spiral the disc really noses down.

Let's clarify one thing: when I think "Turbo Putt" I think of the disc flying level. There is also the "backward flipping" putt where you push the back down while you send the disc forward. I just call this a "butterfly putt".

But I think one is "Turbo" and one is a "Twist", but I don't know which is which.

I believe the Twist is when the turbo is throw with the disc upside down. Monroe and few other old schoolers use this style in certain situations, especially when they want the disc to just drop fast if it misses.

Maybe the spiral could be darkened with a Sharpie and players could modify it so they can spin it in their hands to "hipmotize" other players...

The Turbo Twist is the upside-down one. Rhett, if you would get off work early enough to come to doubles on Tuesday you might see it. :DAnd some of us, when we are experiencing the yips, use it in all situations inside 20ft...

I'd like to try one but can't seem to find them for sale. No longer available at Marshall Street.

If I get one I'm gonna test it on watermelons.

What is the real name of the "butterfly putt" I described above?

As for this new disc, I'm finding that when putting normally, the saw-blade nubs seem to push the chains out of the way without pulling any new ones in the way, and my putts are finding the back of the basket and spitting through far more than a regular putter. Anyone else notice this?

I was just teaching a new player yesterday both the butterfly putt (same as Rhett describes it) and the turbo putt. His turbo putting with a Putt'r was much more accurate than the more traditional toss he had been using for putting.

I haven't gotten my hands on a Turbo Putt yet to see how it works for me.

As for this new disc, I'm finding that when putting normally, the saw-blade nubs seem to push the chains out of the way without pulling any new ones in the way, and my putts are finding the back of the basket and spitting through far more than a regular putter. Anyone else notice this?



I played with mine over the weekend and I noticed it actually fell out the side more often than my wizards and challengers when I was putting normally. I haven't quite gotten the turbo putting down with the turbo putt proto - I tend to not put enough forward momentum on it and it drops short.

What is the real name of the "butterfly putt" I described above?


Back in the late 70's when I first saw that putt is was known as.....the butterfly putt. It was an effective putting method to use for ground baskets.

What is the real name of the "butterfly putt" I described above?


Back in the late 70's when I first saw that putt is was known as.....the butterfly putt. It was an effective putting method to use for ground baskets.


Well then, I'm glad I got that right. :)

I find it effective for the rare situation where you have to putt over a tall shrubbery or hedge that is pretty close to the basket. The back-spin makes the disc dive down pretty quickly. I've used it effectively on hole #7 at HB, and also hole 10 at Morley in the up-top position that isn't next to the ridge when I landed next to the ridge.

What is the real name of the "butterfly putt" I described above?


Back in the late 70's when I first saw that putt is was known as.....the butterfly putt. It was an effective putting method to use for ground baskets.


Well then, I'm glad I got that right. :)


I'm just a newbie at 10 years playing...but the player that showed me this putt told me it was called a pie-pan...as it works best with the putter held flightplate down...as if holding a pie overhead. I've since called it a flapjack putt. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Chuck is correct. The "Twist" is upside down. The "Turbo Twist" is right side up. When thrown right side up it goes faster and further, as if the "turbos" kicked in. The guys who developed it played catch on the gym floor...from foul line to foul line. It was developed for the infamous culvert targets at UAH in Huntsville in the early 80's.

How the h-e-double hockey sticks did this get approved? What a retarded design.....are you kidding me?

have you read the whole thread?

Every post, but I still can't believe that this is approved......when you think disc, can you honestly think of the shape of this atrocity, not to mention the spiral on the bottom? Does this honestly seem like a DG disc to you?

I believe the Twist is when the turbo is throw with the disc upside down. Monroe and few other old schoolers use this style in certain situations, especially when they want the disc to just drop fast if it misses.

Maybe the spiral could be darkened with a Sharpie and players could modify it so they can spin it in their hands to "hipmotize" other players...



If it is intended to be thrown upside down, what the f is the damned spiral for?

I think that it is shameful that this is legal......I'm all for REAL disc innovation, but this disc is NOT what I would call innovation...simply a gimmick......Quote me on this!! This will not stand the test of time.

Bizzle out!

This thing is no weirder than the Epic or Arrow. *shrug*

Well, Sandalman has a say in its future.

This thing is no weirder than the Epic or Arrow. *shrug*



Hmm....I have to agree.....they are freaks of nature!! At least they are true round discs....where is the disc standard PDGA?

I don't understand all the animosity towards this disc.

I understand that some folks may not want to throw a Turbo. That makes sense. I don't want to throw a Rhino (Innova), a Challenger (Discraft), a Tank (Ching), etc., etc., etc.

That dosen't mean I'm going to trash them. Some folks really do well with them. Good for them.

Innovation requires experimentation. Experimentation requires risk. Try a lot of things. See what works. Use what does. Discard what dosen't.

A lack of Innovation leads to stagnation. I don't want our sport to become stagnant. I may never use a Turbo. But I applaud the effort of Quest AT to continue to try innovative things in th solving of D-Golf problems.

Keep it up guys. There will always be scoffers who think that they need to "protect the integrity of the sport" by shouting insults at anything they don't personally appreciate. Ignore them. We need change. We need growth. We need innovation.

pastor keith

Don't worry, sales will determine it's longevity. I am looking for the upside down model with the spiral. The dome prevent an upside down throw.

I read on Marshall Street that this disc was dis-approved after the other manufacturers protested the PDGA's decision. So many people are calling Dimple Technology and their otehr designs a gimmick, when the truth is that they wish INNOVA or Discraft came up with it first. If Climo threw these drivers all of you would be rushing to your local sports store to buy one.

So many people are calling Dimple Technology and their otehr designs a gimmick, when the truth is that they wish INNOVA or Discraft came up with it first. If Climo threw these drivers all of you would be rushing to your local sports store to buy one.



SAY IT SOUL BROTHER!

From Marshal Street
Then, because of pressure exterted on the PDGA leadership by certain manufacturers, the approval was rescinded a few days later. In the meantime, Quest produced thousands of these beautiful, controversial oddities, all with "PDGA Approved," and "Approved on 6/5/07" molded right into the plastic.
You probably won't hear much about this until it's long over, as the PDGA does its best to keep the rest of us in the dark about how it reaches decisions (they roll over like little yappy lap dogs whenever big money snaps its fingers), but this could very well be the disc to burn the PDGA's dirty little conflict of interest fingers. Boy, I wish I were Quest's lawyer. Now that guy's got it made.

From Me
I like mine, never could hold a disc firmly enough to Turbo before, should large hands be deemed an unfair advantage?

Don't use one if you don't like it. Just don't complain if I do.

I like all discs, kind of a fetish if you will. Got a garage full to prove it and I'm a relatively new player.

I was looking forward to buying and using a Turbo Putt from Quest. Now that it is no longer a PDGA approved disc I will not buy one. The PDGA decision to rescind the approval has cost Quest my sale.

The disc passed all of the objective criteria necessary for approval. When the decision was made to approve the disc originally I am sure that all due consideration was given to this disc and it's innovative features.

I think that it is a shameful thing for the PDGA to rescind the approval of this disc. It could only have happened for underhanded reasons. I did not realize that the PDGA is such a push over. This is very discouraging.

I am a little confused now. The Turbo is listed as an approved disc on the current list (dated June 26 2007) available from the PDGA here: http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf

If this disc is not approved any longer then why has the PDGA not officially notified its members or at a minimum removed the disc from the approved list? If this disc is still approved then where is all of this disinformation coming from?

I don't understand all the animosity towards this disc.

I understand that some folks may not want to throw a Turbo. That makes sense. I don't want to throw a Rhino (Innova), a Challenger (Discraft), a Tank (Ching), etc., etc., etc.

That dosen't mean I'm going to trash them. Some folks really do well with them. Good for them.

Innovation requires experimentation. Experimentation requires risk. Try a lot of things. See what works. Use what does. Discard what dosen't.

A lack of Innovation leads to stagnation. I don't want our sport to become stagnant. I may never use a Turbo. But I applaud the effort of Quest AT to continue to try innovative things in th solving of D-Golf problems.

Keep it up guys. There will always be scoffers who think that they need to "protect the integrity of the sport" by shouting insults at anything they don't personally appreciate. Ignore them. We need change. We need growth. We need innovation.

pastor keith



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for innovation, I wouldn't be too apposed to a different version of the turbo putt, like one that still has the spiral, but a TRUE round disc edge...Take for instance the Ching disc's that you mentioned, while I don't throw them, and can't see throwing them ever, they are still a disc, despite their indentations. The DT technology is also a unique design that I have no issues with as they are still a round disc. To make amends for my bagging the turbo putt, if quest came up with another version of the TP that was a true disc, I will be the first to applaud and support their innovation and likewise I would FULLY support the approval of the disc.

The disc passed all of the objective criteria necessary for approval. When the decision was made to approve the disc originally I am sure that all due consideration was given to this disc and it's innovative features.

I think that it is a shameful thing for the PDGA to rescind the approval of this disc. It could only have happened for underhanded reasons. I did not realize that the PDGA is such a push over. This is very discouraging.

If it's really true that the PDGA has removed this unique piece of flying plastic from the approved discs list, then I applaud them. While it's cool that Quest is pushing the envelope and ratcheting up the time to market for discs, the product in question is not a disc. Although the PDGA made a mistake initially, it'd be worse to not admit the mistake and rectify the situation (ahem, Hillary).

From mathwords.com:

Disk

The union of a circle and its interior.





(they roll over like little yappy lap dogs whenever big money snaps its fingers)


Why does the image of Bill O'Reilly come to mind when I read that particular piece of insightful analysis?

Disc manufacturers had little to do with the reversal on the Turbo-Putt. The PDGA received several complaints from players (some who have posted on the topic) about this disc not being a "disc" and the issue was referred to the Tech Standards Committee for review and recommendation. It was pretty clear that those on the Committee, which does not have a manufacturer rep on it, felt that only discs with a uniform outside radius should be allowed. I believe the committee's views are in sync with what most feel is a fundamental characteristic in our sport - that the items we throw should be round "discs" on the outside. A recommendation from the Tech Standards Committee regarding this was submitted to the Board and the Board approved it. No sinister back story regarding manufacturer pressure.

If you want a disc some manufacturers have lobbied to disallow, consider the Epic. However, so far the disc has withstood the efforts of some manufacturers to try and disapprove it.

Thank you for your response, I was hoping you would.
Wasn't the Tech Standards Committee responsible for initial approval?

Yes. It's primarily Jeff Homburg who just routinely tests discs based on the specs as written with little discussion other than copying the committee on which discs pass or don't pass the tests. It wasn't until the players brought up the question about whether a disc being round was fundamental to the sport that the discussion ensued to revisit the specs in this case.

Are there any other discs whose approval has been reversed?

I think I read where the Dimple disc from back in the 90s lost its approval when the flexibility standards were introduced.

Disc manufacturers had little to do with the reversal on the Turbo-Putt. The PDGA received several complaints from players (some who have posted on the topic) about this disc not being a "disc" and the issue was referred to the Tech Standards Committee for review and recommendation. It was pretty clear that those on the Committee, which does not have a manufacturer rep on it, felt that only discs with a uniform outside radius should be allowed. I believe the committee's views are in sync with what most feel is a fundamental characteristic in our sport - that the items we throw should be round "discs" on the outside. A recommendation from the Tech Standards Committee regarding this was submitted to the Board and the Board approved it. No sinister back story regarding manufacturer pressure.

If you want a disc some manufacturers have lobbied to disallow, consider the Epic. However, so far the disc has withstood the efforts of some manufacturers to try and disapprove it.




Thats funny. I heard a completely different story about this. As I am probably not supposed to know about it, Ill leave it at that. The sentence "Primary Sponsor of PDGA Events" did come into play though. Maybe I just mis-understood what was being said to me....and Ive also got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, if anyone knows anybody looking for one.

Whether individual Board members were influenced by any manufacturers regarding their vote or if that phrase was used by some of them in an attempt at persuading some voters, I have no idea. Regardless of that, having been directly involved in the Tech committee voting on this, the issue never came up in regards to the recommendation to the Board and none of the Committee have manufacturer sponsorship. One of the fundamental questions before the Committee was "Were discs always meant to be round or was the intent of the current guidelines to potentially allow other shapes including squares?" The answer, "Round." If the Committee hadn't made a recommendation to rescind, the Board would not even have voted and the disc would remain approved. Unbelievable the conspiracy theorists.

Whether individual Board members were influenced by any manufacturers regarding their vote or if that phrase was used by some of them in an attempt at persuading some voters, I have no idea.

Unbelievable the conspiracy theorists.

Well, it's still on the approved lists of discs so I guess they changed their mind. (again)

and sometimes the nubbies grab stuff and prevent rolling and other times they provide extra bounces that enhances rolling. just like sometimes the nubbies hold the chains (strong side hits) and other times they allow smooth, gear-like rolloffs from the chains (weak side hits).

Whether individual Board members were influenced by any manufacturers regarding their vote or if that phrase was used by some of them in an attempt at persuading some voters, I have no idea.




Say it aint so Joe, Say it aint so. :(

if a product is on the Approved list then it is Approved. the Turbo Putt is in on the list, therefore it is Approved.

Just Curious

Nice touch allowing the undecided to vote both ways..... :p

Or not at all

I think if the PDGA approved the disc, allowed several to be made, and then rescinded their votes then the PDGA needs to pay Quest for every disc produced. It's only fair seeing as Steve made so many, and now they cant be used in tournaments. It may cost a crap load of money from the PDGA, but its only fair.

Cheaper than going to court.

I'm pretty sure the disc is still approved and they are voting on on some rule revisions today!

if a product is on the Approved list then it is Approved. the Turbo Putt is in on the list, therefore it is Approved.



This is true but if there are not 1500 in existence then its still can not be used in a PDGA sanctioned event!!!

One of the fundamental questions before the Committee was "Were discs always meant to be round or was the intent of the current guidelines to potentially allow other shapes including squares?" The answer, "Round."

Geez, I usually try to support our PDGA, but this was is nuts. The committee really felt that the question was a difference between round and square? How did the issue of square discs come into question when discussing a disc that is no where near square? The Turbo Putt is round, with nubs. But it is still round.

If the committee really asked the question as you have stated it, then I worry about their ability to reason effectively. If they decided that round only means with no indentations, bumps, numbs, etc., that's a different issue. But square? The committee saying that this is the same question as square discs is either ignorant or disingenuous.
I think if the PDGA approved the disc, allowed several to be made, and then rescinded their votes then the PDGA needs to pay Quest for every disc produced. It's only fair seeing as Steve made so many, and now they cant be used in tournaments. It may cost a crap load of money from the PDGA, but its only fair.

I could not agree more!

The bottom line here is that the PDGA got caught in a situation that exposed a very weak practice in disc approval. One person should not be given the task of basically approving a disc and getting the committee's blessing on his decision. Board members with any connection with or sponsorship from disc manufactures should not be voting on disc approval (the committee only recommends, but the board approves, if I understand this correctly). I hope that this very poorly handled incident leads to some clearly needed changes in the disc approval process.

Still a big supporter or OUR PDGA!