I was wondering if anyone had a 'recipe' for accelerating the seasoning of champ plastic. I have had some great sidewinders that I have beat up or dug outof the river that are just that perfect amount of flippy. Of course I lost them both :mad:The new champs and stars that I picked up are just too stable compared to what I had. I don't have a whole lot of time or patience to get these beat up so I was wondering if anyone had anything that has worked. Right now I am freezing one and wil run it though the dishwasher when i get home...hoping to duplicate having it sit out on the deck for a year. I am not above thrwoing it in the clothes washer...Any other ideas or experiences?
Thanks!

Play wooded courses. :)

You haven't played Spokane have you LOL...woods, cliffs, rivers, rattlers, moose.... :D

I was wondering if anyone had a 'recipe' for accelerating the seasoning of champ plastic. I have had some great sidewinders that I have beat up or dug outof the river that are just that perfect amount of flippy. Of course I lost them both :mad:The new champs and stars that I picked up are just too stable compared to what I had. I don't have a whole lot of time or patience to get these beat up so I was wondering if anyone had anything that has worked. Right now I am freezing one and wil run it though the dishwasher when i get home...hoping to duplicate having it sit out on the deck for a year. I am not above thrwoing it in the clothes washer...Any other ideas or experiences?
Thanks!



Did the dishwasher effect the discs characteristics at all??

That is kinda the point. I had 2 river conditioned sidewinders...one was kinda perfect flippy but the other was so reverse domed that it was sort of spcialized to REALLY flip ...that did break back to normal once it was out of the river for a while.

Go find yourself a large beach towel and place the disc in the middle of it. Then pick up each corner of the towel to form a handle. Then proceed to swing it against a tree, wall, ground or whatever is rock hard about 50-100 times. I have done this to season some drivers and mid's before. I have done dx roc's before and had them turn out pretty good. I usually have the best success with Champ, Z and E plastics though.

A ziploc bag, a packet of Lawry's marinade spices and some italian dressing. Mmm mm MMM!

Pull a sidewinder out of the disc bin. Take a moist towel and gently wipe 50 clockwise circles and 50 counter-clockwise circles on each side of the disc. Put the disc back in the bin and wait fifteen minutes. Then come back to the bin, reach in and pull out a Roadrunner and you're good to go! :D

LOL-I tried that Denny! I love my roadrunner...the sidwinder works a bit better round these parts as far as obstacles and legs go.

Hmmm...dry rubs, wet rubs...I will try putting it on the Weber and get back to ya :p

Thanks for all of the replies! I will let ya know how the freezer~dishwasher combo goes...I am also going to try one in the clothes washer with some towels and report back...

Throw a less stable mold. There are many discs you can buy new that will flip for you. Many players choose this method over throwing beat up stable molds so their discs are easily replacable with new ones...

Try a lighter disc. My gawd... it's so simple, it just might work! :eek:

Try a lighter disc.

...or just bend the disc to increase it's dome height. DGWN had an article about how to do this a few issues ago. Simply bend away from the top of the disc so the edges almost touch (i.e. really bend it). Do this multiple times & work your way around the disc (so it ends up being straight but more domed). This will make the disc instantly flippy-er. Hitting trees and beating the plastic into the ground are just harder ways of accomplishing this. To make the disc more stable, bend it the other way (i.e. try to make it flatter by bending the edges toward the top).

That bending technique seems like a very inexact science. Imagine two holes left in the tournament and a chance to win, a choice of gaps off the tee, a gusting, swirling wind, your back's a little tight and you think you've lost a little power, you're got 3 versions of each of 3 molds in your bag and you're trying to figure out exactly how hard to bend your disc to get it super-duper fine-tuned and then the wind changes, again.

But hey, I could be wrong.

Try a lighter disc. My gawd... it's so simple, it just might work! :eek:



Exactly. I'm throwing one of Quest's Ultralights and it's a fun turnover disc straight out of the box. 137g and it's getting out close to 400 ft.

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Exactly. I'm throwing one of Quest's Ultralights and it's a fun turnover disc straight out of the box. 137g and it's getting out close to 400 ft.

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Are 137g discs PDGA approved?

The Innova E.D.G.E discs are PDGA approved and less than 100g. There is no lower limit on the weight of a disc, just an upper limit.

Very curious to know how ur freeze, dish wash test came out.

How bout putting it in a paint can and mixer for a few minutes /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I had a 137g "Cheetah". It's in quotes because it was the most stable thing in my bag. The name on the back just couldn't be right even though it sure looked like a Cheetah.

It was a freak of disc technology. It did finally start to flip over in the most unpredictable way.

I soaked the disc dripping wet and it went into the freezer. Came out pretty dang hard frozen solid. Washer with heat dry...feels different-we'll see...

BTW-jamming a 150 JK Champ Valk in the corner of the trunk of the Honda right between the emergency jump juice box an the washer fluid bottle...Not the best idea...

PS LOL-LOVE the paint mixer idea!

find a dryer on the side of the road. Disable the heat for the dryer so all it knows how to do is tumble. Put it in a shack behind your house (with sound dampening) and throw discs plus non sharp hard things (like baseballs, softballs, golfballs, etc) in with it and let it go for an hour. It'll be loud, but it'll get the job done. This is how I beat up flashs for rolling. As far as my mids go, our courses have enough trees on them that I don't really need to 'work' discs in as much as avoid 'overworking' them.

How did your freeze, wash technique go?

I will let ya know tonight...I took a few days off after abusing my body in the LCO thi slast weekend in Spokane. Just field work this week so far on short game.

I am trying to figure out how to approach the guy at Sherwin Williams LOL

Survey says-don't bother...helped a bit but not much. maybe multiple cycles but i would keep those in the washer not the freezer.

PS Microwave...not so great ;)

I just give my new discs to the kids to play with and stomp on. Better than any wooded course I've yet to play :D

find a dryer on the side of the road. Disable the heat for the dryer so all it knows how to do is tumble. Put it in a shack behind your house (with sound dampening) and throw discs plus non sharp hard things (like baseballs, softballs, golfballs, etc) in with it and let it go for an hour. It'll be loud, but it'll get the job done. This is how I beat up flashs for rolling. As far as my mids go, our courses have enough trees on them that I don't really need to 'work' discs in as much as avoid 'overworking' them.


Even though you wouldn't get caught, that would still be illegal.

Go out to a soccer field and throw a bunch of slap down rollers hard; or big back hand rollers, but those make for longer walks to pick them up. Rolling plastic makes for an even break in as opposed to hitting a tree or brick wall on purpose which can bring out unnatural flight paths.

Go out to a soccer field and throw a bunch of slap down rollers hard; or big back hand rollers, but those make for longer walks to pick them up. Rolling plastic makes for an even break in as opposed to hitting a tree or brick wall on purpose which can bring out unnatural flight paths.


Aer you claiming that putting PDGA Approved discs into a clothes dryer with golf balls and rolling them around with the intention of changing their flight characteristics is legal under the PDGA Rules of Play?

uhhh.. i don't think he said anything about that.

Go out to a soccer field and throw a bunch of slap down rollers hard; or big back hand rollers, but those make for longer walks to pick them up. Rolling plastic makes for an even break in as opposed to hitting a tree or brick wall on purpose which can bring out unnatural flight paths.


Aer you claiming that putting PDGA Approved discs into a clothes dryer with golf balls and rolling them around with the intention of changing their flight characteristics is legal under the PDGA Rules of Play?



802.01 Discs Used in Play
A. Discs used in play must meet all of the
conditions set forth in the Offi cial PDGA
Technical Standards Document. See
section 805 B for disc technical standards.
B. A disc which is cracked or perforated is
illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F. A
disc which is cracked during a round may
be carried by the player, but not used, for
the balance of the tournament. The player
must immediately declare his intention to
carry the newly cracked or broken disc to
the group or be subject to penalty under
802.01 E.

Have you ever bent disc or tuned one? Would you consider that changing flight characteristics? Would you consider that illegal?

Oops...meant to post this...

C. Players may not make post-production
modifi cation of discs which alter their
original fl ight characteristics. This rule
does not forbid inevitable wear and tear
from usage during play or the moderate
sanding of discs to smooth molding
imperfections or scrape marks. Discs
excessively sanded or painted with a
material of detectable thickness are
illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.

There's a subtle difference between sanding a gouge or undending a taco and tossing discs in a dryer with baseballs.

Okay, maybe it isn't so subtle a difference.

I wasn't commenting on putting discs in a washer at all. The idea sounds stupid to me and probably beyond the intention of pdga standards but I don't really care if that's what floats your boat; I was simply offering an effective legal alternative that will likely improve other aspects of your game at the same time.

I didn't mean to be arguementative-I was just curious on the point that you brought up. If say a Star Sidewinder is supposed to be quite understable and when it is new it is a fair bit overstable, is speed seasoning to acheive that understability really alteringreally altering the disc characteristics? I hit plenty of tress at Corbin this weekend so this is likely a mute point :D

Just because you won't get caught doesn't make it legal.

can you please explain the illegal part...kind of along the lines of my last question. I am not trying to skirt the rules and if you can engage the question without saying the same thing over and over without expalnation I would love to hear it...

i think you raise a fair point. if discs fly differently for you than the way they are intended, wouldn't altering their flight to make them fly 'correctly' be encouraged? and then taking them beyond that is just a nice accident :)

can you please explain the illegal part...kind of along the lines of my last question. I am not trying to skirt the rules and if you can engage the question without saying the same thing over and over without expalnation I would love to hear it...



Check your PDGA Rule Book:

802.01 Discs Used in Play
.
.
.
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.



I didn't really think that needed explaining. Not trying to me a smart-arse, but what part of "Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics" is unclear? If you take an overstable disc and throw it in the dishwasher or the clothes dryer or turn it on a lathe or grind it on the sidewalk then you are modifying the disc to change its flight characteristics.

Like I said, you won't get caught and no one will ever call you on it, but it is still illegal under the quoted rule.

I appreciate your explanation. I don't appreciate the condescending, judgemental tone.

So disc tuning would be out then too-no bnding an Epic, no bending the edges to dome a driver according to your interpretation....Just getting a clarification of your thought process

As for the original question you can take a lighter and moderately blacken the bottoms of DX plastic and reform it flat or domey and evan patch cracked or discs with penholes ive reformed countless discs that i dont like to make them more flat. I also use an old school hairdryer on extra hot.

So disc tuning would be out then too-no bnding an Epic, no bending the edges to dome a driver according to your interpretation....Just getting a clarification of your thought process


I don't bend my discs to "tune" them. Does that even do anything appreciable to flight characteristics?

The only time I bend my discs is to try and take the taco out of them, in hopes of restoring them to their original shape in hopes that they might fly a little like they did before that big traumatic impact that taco'd them. This, IMHO, is akin to sanding or melting a gouge or ding to bring the rim back to it's original shape, which is specifically allowed by the rules.

To me, and I'm nobody but a blow-hard on a message board, it's pretty cut and dried and it's all about intent. The PDGA Rules of Play specifically prohibit post-production modifications that alter the original flight characteristics of a disc. The PDGA Rules of Play also specifically allow you to repair a damaged disc within reason. If you have a disc with a big ole slice in the rim from hitting a palm tree or top of a chain link fence, you can break out a lighter and melt it back in an attempt to restore the disc to the way it way. Conversely, you cannot break out that lighter and melt the bead off the bottom to make that disc fly more understable.

I don't bend my discs to "tune" them. Does that even do anything appreciable to flight characteristics?


yes, which is exactly what makes it an arguement. it's legal to tune a disc so why not throw it in a dryer for the same effect? the rules may be "cut and dried," but the rules are changed fairly often for issues exactly like this one. you must only have one rulebook ;)

if many people are convicted of the same crime and each of them are pardoned for similar reasons, that's a sign that the law needs to be rewritten, not the government is corrupt for pardoning everyone. for the same reason, no one says anything about people "speed tuning" discs. disc golf officials don't mind, so i'd say it's a sign that the rule needs to be rewritten, not just that no one cares.

I can see-even if I don't agree with 11k's points. I see his interpretation as literalist and very tight tunnel in interpretation. Cut & dried? Hardly. I would ask this-tune, don't tune, season, don't season...making under or overstable-does any of this make one magically start acing holes, bagging bridies or gain any fair or unfair advantage?

We are not talking about putting jet rockets on discs. We are talking about altering degrees of stability. What is the big deal. One can adhere to rules without question-regardless of the logic or we can question the logic of the rule. As there are under, over and in between offerings from oh so many manufacturors, I question the logic of arguing or having a rule of altering stability when the offerings available already fall with in that range.

My thoughts anyways...

Here's a scenario:

I take my CFR Wraith and cut nubs into (out of?) the rim. Now the rim conifguration resembles that of the PDGA approved Turbo Putt.

Is this disc legal? If not, why not?

If so, I'm starting up a company that manufactures disc golf body armor. :)

cause that would be making a further alteration to a disc that is already being produced (illegal odification)

Here's a scenario:

I take my CFR Wraith and cut nubs into (out of?) the rim. Now the rim conifguration resembles that of the PDGA approved Turbo Putt.

Is this disc legal? If not, why not?

If so, I'm starting up a company that manufactures disc golf body armor. :)



LOL-that is an absurd comparison to throw into this discussion. We are talking about accelerating the natural seasoning in~breaking in of discs, not turning it into a shuriken or something. That new disc is crazy. If you start the body armor, sign me up. I might need it...

bending a disc, compared to making ninja stars out of a disc. are you kidding?

bending a disc, you don't alter the original mold. in other words, by simply bending the disc again, it can fly like new (or throwing it in boiling water for a couple seconds). if you cut the hell out of a disc, you couldn't pull it out of your bag without someone laughing, now could you? and you definitely couldn't make it like new again. i should probably mention the "no cracks" rule, which pretty much covers "cracks" made by swiss army knives. any other ridiculous analogies?

Just different degrees of the same thing, not different things.

I posted this on the 802.01 thread...just some fyi for the cut and dried...

Here was my question to the RC...


I have a question that has been brought up on the board....

Say you have what should be an understable disc, such as a Star Sidewinder, but as it is Star plastic it tends to be more stable than it is intended. This would be true until it is broken in. So, if rather than waiting for a year or two of play, you throw it against a wall, at the ground or throw it is a pillow case and beat it against a tree or throw it in a washer or dryer-all with the intention of 'speed seasoning' the disc to its intended flight characteristics, is that a violation of the rules in...

802.01.C. Players may not make post-production
modifi cation of discs which alter their
original fl ight characteristics.

Would this be any different than tuning a disc? Why?

Thanks!


Here was the response...

The "final legality" of any disc is made by the TD when/if a disc is questioned by another competitor, so we believe that any player can seek assistance if they run into a questionable disc.

From a Rules Committee perspective, we were more concerned with the application of heat/hot water/etc that would change the shape on the disc and possibly it's performance.

From your "actions" list we think that anything that involves throwing the disc (into a wall, tree, the ground or down the street) is okay. We're don't think that the pillow case or washer/dryer scenarios are legitimate methods of "speed seasoning".

We do realize that "speed seasoning" is an issue (player's want to do it) and that there's no way for a TD to tell if you used a pillow case to break in a disc, so our next version of the rules will likely see this area's restrictions loosened. We'll probably remove the no "post production modifications" clause. We also don't think that anyone can gain a true competitive advantage through disc modification.