If you notify a TD within 24-48 hours of ANY event, outside a major or personalized players pack tournament, you should be refunded.

No f'n questions asked...!

Thats MY MONEY until the day of the event...

An email was sent 8-9 days before the event indicating I wasn't coming and the email "wasn't received". 4 days later after no response, A second email is sent and responded to in a matter of hours. The problem is the email was sent through the PDGA and I dont have a Timestamped email in my outbox to prove I sent one before the 7 days prior to only get bent for half my entry...

Here is is 5 days before the event and I am not getting a penny back...

If you haven't read the NT handbook, DO IT. Maybe I could save you from losing 132 bucks..

I am F'n p!ssed...

sounds like more PDGA BS!!!! :confused:

If it's important enough to you, don't use email. With spam filters these days, many important messages can get trapped. I have to check my SPAM file regularly to make sure important messages regarding Worlds haven't gotten trapped, especially those from other countries that might be suspicious to the spam filter. I had to cancel my trip to The Memorial last year 5 days before the event due to required heart surgery. I did get $50 back (half) because I called the TD. But that didn't do much to cover the $2600 not covered by health insurance. The canceling player should at least get a player pack if any and sponsor credit for the event if they don't get a refund.

If it's important enough to you, don't use email. With spam filters these days, many important messages can get trapped. I have to check my SPAM file regularly to make sure important messages regarding Worlds haven't gotten trapped, especially those from other countries that might be suspicious to the spam filter. I had to cancel my trip to The Memorial last year 5 days before the event due to required heart surgery. I did get $50 back (half) because I called the TD. But that didn't do much to cover the $2600 not covered by health insurance. The canceling player should at least get a player pack if any and sponsor credit for the event if they don't get a refund.



BS period. If an emergency happens we should show each other some respect. It ain't like being late for a mini, If you were cool with it Chuck I have a bridge to sell you.

Lance

I didn't say I liked the policy but understood it. It's pretty simple. Email is risky if it's important, especially if you don't get confirmation. It's the responsibility of the person who needs to communicate to make sure it happens, not the responsibility of those you are communicating with to mind read that you're trying.

Thats MY MONEY until the day of the event...

If you haven't read the NT handbook, DO IT. Maybe I could save you from losing 132 bucks..



Technically it's not your money anymore once you send it.

The policy is clearly spelled out on the second page of the PDGA Competition Manual (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/07CompetitionManual.pdf):


1.3. Withdraws and Refunds
A. A player may officially withdraw only by contacting the Turnament Director.
B. Players must email or phone their withdrawals to the Tournament Director only at the contact information posted.
C. Discussions with persons other than the Tournament Director, including other tournament staff, shall not be considered official.
D. No refunds will be issued after the 7th day prior to the start of the event, but the player shall be sent a player's package if one was provided to event competitors.
E. Withdrawals made before the 7th day prior to the start of the event shall receive a 50% refund.
F. Withdrawals made 14 days prior to the start of the event shall be refunded 100 %, less postage and handling, which shall not exceed 10% of the entry fee.
G. These criteria may be relaxed at the discretion of the Tournament Director.



This is pretty cut and dry. All this information was available to you, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

On the other hand, with a waiting list,like there is for the Beaver State, there is someone waiting to take that spot and pay an entry fee...

So what I am reading is I am out MY entry, but the TD will remove me and fill that spot for another player and than ANOTHER entry fee?

WHAT IS THAT?

ps. Jeff, If you read line "G" it is wide open for the TD to "DO THE RIGHT THING"

If you paid w/ your CC, you could dispute the charge.

On the other hand, with a waiting list,like there is for the Beaver State, there is someone waiting to take that spot and pay an entry fee...

So what I am reading is I am out MY entry, but the TD will remove me and fill that spot for another player and than ANOTHER entry fee?

WHAT IS THAT?

ps. Jeff, If you read line "G" it is wide open for the TD to "DO THE RIGHT THING"



Sure it IS left WIDE open....BUT..Did your Airline refund your money??? Im sure they will sell your seat... :p

Its a bummer that you cant come AND that you are not getting a refund BUT Its not like it wasnt a POSTED guideline that EVERYONE should have read...especially a PRO :p
:o

It should be the players responsibility to follow up with a refund request. I think the "7 days prior" was not put in to be "unfair" to players with emergencies or changes to plans but to dissuade players from bailing last minute. TDs have a lot to deal with in the days leading up to a sanctioned tournament (no less an NT event) and it's a major hassle to change pre-reg lists, contact those on waiting lists, alter tee assignments, etc. last minute before a tournament.

I know any tournament I pre-reg'ed for that I could not attend I donated the entry fee to the tournament. To me, that seems like the honorable thing to do..but to each his own.

hey if you sent a check I would call your bank and cancel it. I think its more about making a buck than doing the right thing :confused:

hey if you sent a check I would call your bank and cancel it. I think its more about making a buck than doing the right thing :confused:



In Texas THAT would be called "Check Fraud"... ;) a felony..

felony smelony ;)

So, when they fill my spot and receive another 125 bux, thats the "Honorable" thing to do?

Having 250 bux for one spot becuase of a technicality?

Sometimes I wonder if people on these boards, live in the real world.

tough call there...I think for a serious emergency, all money should be refunded, especially if another player from the waiting list is moving in to fill the spot. If its a case of a bad hangover, well, too bad...but this sounds legit. Sorry to hear that Tank.

So, when they fill my spot and receive another 125 bux, thats the "Honorable" thing to do?

Having 250 bux for one spot becuase of a technicality?

Sometimes I wonder if people on these boards, live in the real world.



What technicality?? :confused:
The Real World has Rules & Guidelines..... just like the PDGA ..... :p

NOT knowing the rules isnt an excuse .... NOR is it the TD's fault that a person DIDNT try to buy a plane ticket when it was cheaper.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

:p

Maybe we should let players sell their spots into events....thats what the TD did...right?

if entire events are held up so accomodate "top" players with alleged car problems then i can see why a player would expect to get his money back when he needs to cancel - especially since there apparently are players waiting to pay to take his spot.

if entire events are held up so accomodate "top" players with alleged car problems then i can see why a player would expect to get his money back when he needs to cancel - especially since there apparently are players waiting to pay to take his spot.



So are you saying that RR was right then???
Or since he got away with it then its OK for the rules to be "forgotten" here as well?? :confused:

Bottom line is that "Rules" were followed.....
Yes the TD could give Tank a FULL refund BUT in no means is he required too.
As members, we ALL have access to the RULES & GUIDELINES.
We are expected to know these rules......
IMO to be a PRO, a person should take a test showing that they KNOW the rules....novel concept

Wow....then i'd like to thank Joey Harrell for refunding my NT entry fee. I missed TX's first NT (Waco, march 2004) due to the birth of our first child. Thanks Joey!

to a player who is dedicating his year to tour the U.S. disc golf circuit, $125 is a lot of money...Understand, that more than likely he does not work full time. These are the players we should support as much as possible...

Thats a great idea, Sell my spot!!!

FriZZaks for President(s)

Magilla, I understand your side and I like to hear both sides of every debate, but your failing to see the real issue.
The real issue is that my spot is being filled and noone losses here, but me.

I agree, It is spelled out in back and white, but life isn't always black and white, we live in the grey area...

Thats a great idea, Sell my spot!!!

FriZZaks for President(s)

Magilla, I understand your side and I like to hear both sides of every debate, but your failing to see the real issue.
The real issue is that my spot is being filled and noone losses here, but me.

I agree, It is spelled out in back and white, but life isn't always black and white, we live in the grey area...



I understand your situation...personally I would have given you your money back BUT thats me :D

Last year I tore my Tricep at the Golden State Classic....2 weeks prior to the BSF...I requested AND got my money returned.... :cool:

Im sorry you cant be here Tank....Its like NO OTHER course youve ever seen... :D

We are presidents...of something Im sure....Good luck with the money tank.

In Texas THAT would be called "Check Fraud"... ;) a felony..



I am amazed at how naive some of the statements I read on this board are. In America THAT would be called a "Stop Payment"...might cost about 40-50 bucks to place it with your bank but at least you will some money back. I don't care what the rules say, in this case the TD is just being a *****! Don't worry Tank, the bogey gods will have their revenge.

and whats all this stuff about tank not knowing the rules. He did! He sent the email in enough time!!! Its no ones fault that it was stuck in a spam account or not recieved. He made his best effort to inform the TD in the appropriate amount of time. At this point the TD should be understanding and refund his money.. like there arnt people who are waiting to take that spot!

An amazing statement, in itself.....I think I'll go on a spending spree tonight, put stop-payments on all my checks tomorrow morning, and be immune from prosecution.

we are a family of discgolfers...He was not a sponsor who is pulling his money out, he is a competitor who asked for a refund...If the tourney is one short of being full, sure, keep his money....But cmon, somone will fill his spot.

Joey Harrell

now that is a guy if HONOR and we could sure more like him on the BOD

If it's an emergency, then pick up the phone and call.

It's amazing how many people think email is the best way to communicate urgent matters.

Not everyone has every TDs number on speed dial.

i dont think it was emergent when it was within the time limit! Emergent to me means with in 24 hours. When you are emailing 9 days in advance its hardly an emergency. tank followed protocol. If the TD doesnt want to receive email, then he/she shouldnt list it...

SO TRUE

Not everyone has every TDs number on speed dial.



While that's true, the TDs phone number is right under their name on the PDGA Tour listing that you have to click to email them. Maybe we need to figure out a way to wirelessly activate your cell phone to autodial the TD if you click on the phone number. :eek:

does the pdga timestamp messages sent out thru it? is there a way to go back and confirm the email?

Not everyone has every TDs number on speed dial.



While that's true, the TDs phone number is right under their name on the PDGA Tour listing that you have to click to email them. Maybe we need to figure out a way to wirelessly activate your cell phone to autodial the TD if you click on the phone number. :eek:


Nice, I never noticed that before. The only times I've ever tried to call a TD I get the "doo-dooo-doooo, the number you dialed is no longer in service".

so who wants to try this ph # 503-750-3348 :D if we are talking about the beaver

The only times I've ever tried to call a TD I get the "doo-dooo-doooo, the number you dialed is no longer in service".



Dave may have talked with them on the posted number at least once so it's likely good at least when the event was sanctioned. Of course that could be many months in advance of the event.

I just received an email from The TD of the Beaver State and my entry will be refunded. I truely wish I was in the Davery Jenkberg RV in Portland instead of getting my money back. Mrs. Bellinger handled this situation with class and honor and I appreaciate that.

For the record, I am not tainted by this situation in the least bit and plan on future tournaments in the Portland area...

Thanks to all your input on the situation...

I will chalk this up as a lesson learned...

so who wants to try this ph # 503-750-3348 :D if we are talking about the beaver



Its good I guarantee it! Tank why did you pull out and are you certain it has filled, the tour page says 141 on the event listing?

If I was you I would call Cris at the 503-750-3348 listing and let him know what happened, but if you were withdrawing and wanted your cash back why didn't you just call in the first place? It seems the best solution to getting instant gratification.

In Texas THAT would be called "Check Fraud"... ;) a felony..



I am amazed at how naive some of the statements I read on this board are. In America THAT would be called a "Stop Payment"...might cost about 40-50 bucks to place it with your bank but at least you will some money back. I don't care what the rules say, in this case the TD is just being a *****! Don't worry Tank, the bogey gods will have their revenge.



Look in a mirror....In TEXAS its not called "Stop Payment"..Its called "Check Fraud" ...its treated the same as if you had "insufficient funds" ... A FELONY ... in Texas :p Think what you wish BUT its still the Law...kinda like the "Rules".. :p

I just received an email from The TD of the Beaver State and my entry will be refunded. I truely wish I was in the Davery Jenkberg RV in Portland instead of getting my money back. Mrs. Bellinger handled this situation with class and honor and I appreaciate that.

For the record, I am not tainted by this situation in the least bit and plan on future tournaments in the Portland area...

Thanks to all your input on the situation...

I will chalk this up as a lesson learned...



:cool:Case closed.......

i would not trust the pdga website for sending email... its kinda held together with the tech equivalent of duct tape... always use your own email program if you want to make sure it got thru.

one of the sad things about this whole thing is that the player could prolly have sold his place directly to another competitor for cash and the TD wouldnt care. but its not my event and i do not know what extraneous factors might make it necessary to keep the full entry fee.

(btw, to whoever asked... no, i think RR made a bad call on the car problem thing. rules is rules is rules - and that rule has no "TD discretionary" clause)


does the pdga timestamp messages sent out thru it? is there a way to go back and confirm the email?

Look in a mirror....In TEXAS its not called "Stop Payment"..Its called "Check Fraud" ...its treated the same as if you had "insufficient funds" ... A FELONY ... in Texas :p Think what you wish BUT its still the Law...kinda like the "Rules".. :p



http://www.banking.state.tx.us/exec/faq.htm
There are definitely stop payments in Texas, but who cares, Tank is from NE and the tourney is in OR.

Glad to hear you got your money back Tank.

Glad to hear you got your money back Tank

me too restores some of my faith in people :p

There are a few issues here:

1) What does the competition manual say (and do you really expect BOD members to break this rule for you)?
2) Is the rule fair when there are people waiting to fill those spots?
3) Is the rule fair when there are NOT people waiting to fill those spots?

You also need to consider who might be replacing another player at a NT tournament... it might be someone who is a 1000+ miles away. 1 week is very little time for that person to arrange travel, accommodations, etc. I don't think this is fair to the people on the wait list to expect them to replace you at the last minute. Yes, it would be nice if it can happen but I think it's wrong to _expect_ it to happen.

1) The competition manual is filled with a whole bunch of crazy stuff that no one is paying any attention to.
2) The rule was fair because it was published before the guy paid his money.
3) The rule was fair because it was published before the guy paid his money.
4) It's nice to see the TD going with answer #1. :D

The only reason not to give a full refund is if you've already spent that money on the player pack, meals, or other stuff. Like some tournaments get your shirt size and you get a shirt and they don't need another shirt.

I'm glad the TD is being sensible here.

I have seen several events publish a refund policy over the years (Masters Cup and Marshall Street come to mind). Often the policy published is even more severe than the NT Guidelines- requiring at least 2 weeks notice to get any kind of refund.

Tank I'm glad you got your entry fee back - consider the TD extra nice - not just "doing the right thing".

Look in a mirror....In TEXAS its not called "Stop Payment"..Its called "Check Fraud" ...its treated the same as if you had "insufficient funds" ... A FELONY ... in Texas :p Think what you wish BUT its still the Law...kinda like the "Rules".. :p



http://www.banking.state.tx.us/exec/faq.htm
There are definitely stop payments in Texas, but who cares, Tank is from NE and the tourney is in OR.

Glad to hear you got your money back Tank.



Well in 1987..I cared...
While in the Army I paid for (by check) some merchandice that was NEVER delivered.....so I stopped payment...
After a nice 30 days in the Desert training...I was ARRESTED for CHECK FRAUD.......$2000 in Lawyers later (Check was for $73) I got the charges dropped....... :mad:

Nice to see that has changed... :p

The only reason not to give a full refund is if you've already spent that money on the player pack, meals, or other stuff. Like some tournaments get your shirt size and you get a shirt and they don't need another shirt.

Players packs were ordered a long time ago and the TD will have to eat that $$$ (or rather the pro division) in this case.