I really love the Wraith in both the Pro & Star versions but have never thrown one in Champion. I'm very curious to hear anyone's opinion on the difference in flight characteristics between the Star & Champion. Stabilty, glide, controlability, overall distance potential, etc... Also I've noticed a lot of golfers seem to gravitate towards the first run version for the Augusta Worlds rather than the newer runs and even used they have a higher value than a new CFR Wraith. If you've thrown both versions please elaborate on any flight differences between these different runs as well. Maybe it's just the fixation golfers seem to have with first run dics of any kind? Thanks in advance for any info. and if anyone is looking to sell or trade one in the mid to upper 160's range shoot me a PM.

Champion Wraiths are less stable than Star, but probably moreso than a Pro at highspeed, and less at low speed. I use it for big turnovers, or tailwind bombs. they cruise, but don't expect to be able to throw it into a headwind.

David Wiggins Jr. threw one 484 feet! They really do cruise.

I had a 174 Augusta Champ Wraith that I threw for about two months consistently back when I could only throw about 350' with it. It had a great stable flight and always faded out so I could throw it flat and trust it for hyzer shots. The disc beat in pretty quickly and as I developed more snap it started getting squirrely. I started adjusting by putting some hyzer on the release but occasionally it would hold the hyzer and fly way too left (rhbh) or it would flip hard and take a dive.

This is very similar to my Star Wraiths except the CFR would hold its turn deeper into its flight. This made it a pretty good for long turnovers but not dependable for anything else. I threw it for every night round I played in the winter but finally gave up on it because I felt it was way too nose-angle sensitive.

My favorite wraiths were DX for a short time because they were the first disc I could throw 400' consistently but they only lasted a month before they became terribly unpredictable. In the end, I came back to my Pro Wraiths as they start out very nicely stable and beat up slowly into a beautiful AND CONSISTENT turnover disc for huge turnover bombs and hyzer flips. The pro wraith, for me, flies further more consistently than any other wraith and is the least angle sensitive of the wraiths too. (this is for wraiths 174-175grams)

DX - nice for a couple throws
Star - great for hyzers
Champ - good for ??
Pro - turnover bomb

additional notes: Augusta CFR are $ because of collectability. They are softer champ plastic too I think. 168 was the lightest Augusta wraith I've seen (flipped it onto someone's roof) but the newer ones get down to 166.

I love my CRF wraiths...but only the 1st runs. Stars are definitely more stable. Better for windy conditions. I have a 175g dyed black CFR wraith and that thing is WAY more stable than any other CRF wraith I have ever thrown. It's a nice compliment to my 173g that will flip more for me. My pro wraiths just started flipping way too much but are great when new. just my 2 cents. Everyone likes something different.

I love my CRF wraiths...but only the 1st runs.



Hey Eric, why do you only like the first runs? Do they fly differently than the current CFR Wraiths and if so how? Thanks for the info.

Chemo I agree that the Star feel very stable and I can always count on them to hyzer out at the end of their flight even if thrown a little too nose down. I was thinking the champion may be less stable based on watching a couple thrown by others and I was hoping they would be. It would be nice to have one similiar in flight to the Pro, even a Pro with a little bit of wear but that would be able to hold that flight for a good while. The Pro's just change too quickly for consistency so it seems the Champion might fit that bill. As for the first runs, even the used ones go for more than a new CFR Wraith so I doubt those are for collecting. Thanks Chemo, very informative analysis of the different plastics.

Maybe if you go with a lighter Augusta Wraith (like you indicate you would) you might have success turning it over from a hyzer angle and that would be ideal. I just found it difficult to get the right kind of turn on mine. If i released it anhyzer then I could predict its flight, otherwise it was way too touchy. Even after months of playing with it, I never felt confident that I could give it the proper angle of release for the flight pattern I desired. (unlike the pro plastic that has a smooth, gradual, consistent turn)

I would actually recommend the DGA Rogue as a durable disc that would turnover consistently for you as it sounds like that's what you're after.

I love my CRF wraiths...but only the 1st runs.



Hey Eric, why do you only like the first runs? Do they fly differently than the current CFR Wraiths and if so how? Thanks for the info.



I found the mid-nationals ones from last year to be a tad more stable and a lot stiffer. Maybe it was just the batch I got. B/c of that I haven't even tried this years offerings yet. The Augusta ones just felt better in my hand and their flight was more predictable b/c I had used them for a year already.

I have the problem of a broke in flippy cfr wraiths. As a result I bought a handful of the first run Golden State Classic TRX's that they now call Wraith X's, they''re between a Wraith and a Teerex. As I broke in a brand new Augusta Wraith I was throwing the TRX as an overstable driver. When my Augusta reached the rollover point my TRX was in primed wraith zone. The Wraith X's can be bought for regular CFR prices at DiscGolfValues.com.

Just thought i'd share what I posted on another thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=538691&page=0&fpart=6&vc =1) a little while back about the differences between the original mini star stamped Star TeeRex-X and the Wraith-X.

* I added some text about the newer TeeRex-X mold that has been molded in Champ and Star plastic for tournaments like Golden State Classic and Las Vegas)

I ordered a pair of these TRXs when they were released and a couple of the newer Wraith-X discs in the champion plastic and I thought I'd post a comparison since they look nearly identical by profile and I have had success throwing each. (11 speed discs are just fun to throw)

The Plastic
First of all, the Star plastic used for the TRX (mini star stamped TeeRex-X 200+ made last year) has a unique texture to it. The top surface of the few I have touched have a very fine ridge-like texture on the top surface of the disc. These ridges form many (hundreds?) of concentric circles pretty much exactly like the surface of a vinyl record. If you run your finger along a radius of the disc it makes a little noise since you've got ridges on your fingertips as well. It is also made of the generation of star plastic that feels almost chalky and scuffs very easily on hard surfaces. Personally, it's a great feeling plastic, but the durability is not like champion plastic.

The Wraith-X also have a somewhat unique plastic as well. The champion plastic is very translucent and firm. Not quite as stiff as some teebirds and firebirds in champion that i've felt before, but very nice. It is also pretty smooth on the surface (still grips very well) and just feels great in my hands. So far the plastic seems very durable though i've tried to avoid throwing mine onto concrete. It really looks like higher quality plastic than i'm used to seeing in champion, and I wouldn't mind seeing the same in more disc molds.

* The Champion plastic on the newer mold (flat bottom) TeeRex-X is very similar to the Wraith-X plastic and appears to be another blend of champion plastics. There are swirls in the plastic and it is softer in the hand than standard translucent champion plastic.

The Shape
Looking at the profile I can't tell these discs apart. It is possible that the Wraith-X have a nose on the upper surface that slopes downward slightly more as it approaches the rim, but I'm not sure if this is a mold change or part of how the plastic cooled.

* The newer TeeRex-X has a flat bottom to the lip unlike most X-type molds that impart overstability with a concave bottom lip. The top of the outer wing dips slightly to the edge of the disc and is ever so slightly concave compared to a disc like the standard wraith that is round like a contact lens all the way across the flight plate to the edge of the disc.

The Flight
So how do they throw? If you have thrown other 11 speed drivers then you should already know if the wider rim is going to bug you or not. I can get a tighter fist on a teebird, but the concave bottom lip feels good and doesn't end as sharply as the nose on orcs do. These two discs feel similar to orcs though, and not surprisingly, they fly similar as well.

I think Dave D mentioned the TRX wasn't quite as stable as was expected and I would tend to agree that they fly similarly to my other STRs. Right at release the TRX can turn a bit but it will flatten more quickly and then begin to fade and continue to fade slightly more quickly than a regular teerex. I tend to conceptualize the flight of a Firebird as being "flat" because when the disc is released it generally does not turn at all but holds that angle until it wants to fade. The TeeRex-X has a more "round" flight pattern since it will turn initially, but always comes back, unlike a TeeRex that has become worn and turns for the majority of its flight.

The Wraith-X behaves more like a beat-in TeeRex. When thrown hard it will hold a slight turn for a while (majority of its flight) before eventually and predictably coming out and fading. The difference between this and a standard (new) wraith and a beat-in teerex is that it always wants to fade as it slows down even though it has no problem turning (flipping) if you put the mustard on it.

* The newer Champion TeeRex-X has tremendous glide and I would say significantly more so than the mold variations that have a convex bottom wing. It is not quite as overstable as I'd hope but is perfect when brand new. Instead, this disc seems to be perfect for straight line trajectories that will inevitably fade but is not ideal for a headwind as in very high speed the disc will turn. This disc flies more like a TeeBird than any of the other variations (but cuts through the air more easily)

Max?
Finally, if you would want to compare these to the Max disc, the Max seems to more closely resemble a Firebird and has a much "flatter" flight pattern that holds its initial release angle until it wants to start fading. In my experience the Max will start fading 2/3rds into its flight and continue to become more perpendicular to the ground until it makes contact. I have never thrown a disc that can achieve further reaching skip shots than the max. Because of it's flat lower lip, it doesn't seem to lose much momentum after it contacts the ground and likes to leap in the air like a really fast (long) whippet.