Last weekend we played a temporary course, in hopes of showing the land owners the interest in the game. On one of my drives I land in semi-light rough. But, directly under a three tier barb wire fence. The top tier was at mid-torso height. Is there casual relief for safety?

No.

John Biscoe always has a special condition at Hawk Hollow of 2m free relief from barbed wire (for safety).

I don't believe you get any free relief from barbed wire unless the TD specifies it specifically before the event, as 803.05C says "A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players� equipment, spectators, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. "

The TD could also declare the barb wire fence OB and then you get up to 1m away from it. Since the fence is narrow, a disc would never actually be OB to get a penalty, but you still get the 1m relief.

The barb wire fence was there when you threw. You didn't have to land next to it. You are not guarrenteed your prefered throw for every shot, so if a full fairway runup will impale you on barbed wire (or break your hand against a tree or impale you onto a broken tree or any other injury) then you should choose another shot like a standing forehand to get you away from danger.

I have seen many many disc golfers take the injury instead if the stroke. I say "no relief" and would like to see more disc golfers consider a non-injurious option as part of course management.

I say "no relief" and would like to see more disc golfers consider a non-injurious option as part of course management.



i say it's the responsibility of the TD/course pro to declare casual relief in instances where this might occur. a barb wire fence is clearly dengerous and we (as TDs) do not need people leaving the tourney for stitches.

the fences don't pop up overnight (at least in these parts). the solution is simple-- responsible declaration of relief for such situations (like biscoe at HH).

I say "no relief" and would like to see more disc golfers consider a non-injurious option as part of course management.



the fences don't pop up overnight (at least in these parts). the solution is simple-- responsible declaration of relief for such situations (like biscoe at HH).


I guess we plain ole disagree. I can stand with one foot under a barb wire fence and choose a throw that will not injure me. I figure if I can do it, anybody else can too. I won't get a 300-foot shot out of it, but I will walk away without bleeding.

Perhaps we should declare all trees to be casual obstacles. If there's a chance I'll smack my hand on the trunk, that's obviously a dangerous situation.

hate the fence

love the movie

If you grant relief from barb wire fences then you should grant relief from thorn bushes. The unplayable lie rule is there to handle these situations. Seems like ball golfers are more likely to "man up" and take their penalty whereas disc golfers seem to try everything possible to avoid taking a 1-shot penalty. I do agree that if a course area is known in advance to have leftover barb wire, it would probably be good to specify relief for events although the unplayable rule can handle it otherwise.

I guess we plain ole disagree. I can stand with one foot under a barb wire fence and choose a throw that will not injure me. I figure if I can do it, anybody else can too. I won't get a 300-foot shot out of it, but I will walk away without bleeding.



im sure anyone can take a stance and make a throw while not getting cut by the fence but WHY take the risk? if you know of a barb-wire fence or similar obstacle that could cause serious injury it makes sense to give relief (as a player and/or TD), if not you are just asking for an unecessary trip to the hospital.

saftey first. and trying to compare this to ball golf is a joke to me.

hate the fence

love the movie



There is no relief from Pam Anderson. Play her as she lies.

If you grant relief from barb wire fences then you should grant relief from thorn bushes. The unplayable lie rule is there to handle these situations. Seems like ball golfers are more likely to "man up" and take their penalty whereas disc golfers seem to try everything possible to avoid taking a 1-shot penalty. I do agree that if a course area is known in advance to have leftover barb wire, it would probably be good to specify relief for events although the unplayable rule can handle it otherwise.



first off, i've never had to get stitches from a run in with a sticker bush. can't say the same for barbed wire. your analogy holds no water.

secondly, ball golfers and ball golf courses are A LOT more thorough when declaring where and when you don't get relief on a course by course basis. my point is that more disc golf TDs and those responsible for making that call at our courses should follow suit.

i do agree that ball golfers are more likely to call rules on themselves than disc golfers. they're also a lot more likely to have a steady job. what are you gonna do? :p

I've gotten ripped up by thorn bushes doing course design work way more than barb wire which I've also encountered several times. Your argument that some thorn bushes may be less severe than barb wire doesn't hold any water since the unplayable rule is placed there to cover both scenarios where the player makes the choice as to how much they risk to make a more powerful throw. The rules do not force the player to make the throw from a hazardous location.

This is really no different than a steep slope.

In some cases the TD provides for relief, sometimes they don't. it really depends on the likely hood that players will end up there, and whether the TD wants to make it easier on those that do.

No amount of preparation by a TD will prevent players from risking injury by trying things that common sense says is dangerous.

I'm not sure why you think you should be rewarded for throwing into an obstacle.

The barb wire fence was there when you threw. You didn't have to land next to it. You are not guarrenteed your prefered throw for every shot, so if a full fairway runup will impale you on barbed wire (or break your hand against a tree or impale you onto a broken tree or any other injury) then you should choose another shot like a standing forehand to get you away from danger.

I have seen many many disc golfers take the injury instead if the stroke. I say "no relief" and would like to see more disc golfers consider a non-injurious option as part of course management.



It was a temporary course and I was playing it blind. The fence could not be seen from the tee and it was east to west, (teeing off north to south). Also, covered in tall grass and 300' form the tee, 100' from the basket, that doglegged blind into a penisula cove.

This is really no different than a steep slope.

<font color="red"> yeah sure, nice try</font>

No amount of preparation by a TD will prevent players from risking injury by trying things that common sense says is dangerous.
<font color="red"> some people dont use much common sense, the TD making the barbwire area OB, giving relief or whatever WILL prevent injury </font>

No more so than the exercise of common sense.

This is really no different than a steep slope.

<font color="red"> yeah sure, nice try</font>

No amount of preparation by a TD will prevent players from risking injury by trying things that common sense says is dangerous.
<font color="red"> some people dont use much common sense, the TD making the barbwire area OB, giving relief or whatever WILL prevent injury </font>








So will the player not throwing the disc toward the fence...

TD's should be required to wrap all solid obstacles in bubble wrap.

TD's should be required to wrap all solid obstacles in bubble wrap.



Don't forget about filling in all holes and leveling of uneven areas. Twisted ankles are injuries as well. :cool:

according to my insurance people the liability involved in someone injuring themselves on something we have built/installed (fence) differs greatly from that involved if they injure themselves on something "natural" (hole in the ground, slope, thorns,etc)- from my perspective this is a liability issue rather than a playability issue. basically the farm-owners policy covers the "natural" stuff but not necessarily the "manmade".

TD's should be required to wrap all solid obstacles in bubble wrap.



What about wrapping the players in bubble wrap?

[quote
What about wrapping the players in bubble wrap?

[/QUOTE]
I tried that once...everyone called me Rice Krispies because I snapped, crackled and popped everywhere I went

Someone ought to bubble wrap those parked cars next to hole #15 at the Golden State course in the "Classic Misrulings" thread.

How about we bubble rap some of the "Badarsse's heads" in bubble rap??

Get a grip. I'm in the turf industry and have been an assistant superintendent at a golf course. Until our courses start having $500,000 budgets please stop comparing ball golf courses to disc golf courses. And yes, it takes at least $200,000 to even have a ball golf course operating. Not sure I have seen a ball golf course with a barbed wire fence running along side a fairway.

It really gets to me how easy it is to post on this forum about how great our courses should be and should be managed. So get off of Biscoe and VW for running a safe PRIVATE disc golf course.

Step up and manage you own private course before you post as such a "badarsse."

I actually help manage two private courses.

And there's barbed wire at Walnut Creek too, it just doesn't come into play. I took most of it out during construction, but there's probably some still left hidden since it was once a farm.

I've seen most of the barbed wire on 8. Only in pieces, but it is there. Great hole btw. I'm sure you designed it. I love the long tee....long pin....well maybe not:) I aced it for the weekly doubles ace pot the last random draw doubles tuesday of the season last year short to short. STILL proud:)

Bonday is responsible for that one, and most of the design out there. But I do remember doing the clearing for the long tee on #8.

Ace on #8 is cool. Congrats.