doot
Mar 27 2007, 11:36 AM
Just curious what the PDGA's reasoning is behind not allowing Ams to accept prizes equal to the cash at a Pro Only event.
I would think the Pros as well as the PDGA would try to encourage Ams to "step up" and play, but unless there's a discounted "Trophy Only" entry fee, and AM can only decline the cash and walk away with nothing at Pro events.
I would hope I'm not the only one to think this way. If I wanted to play a local Pro only event as a 868 rated Am, and lightning were to strike half the field and I finished last cash, I'd have to decline the cash and walk away with nothing, despite paying the full entry fee..Just doesn't seem right.
Jeff_LaG
Mar 27 2007, 12:41 PM
You weren't around when during the times when skilled Advanced Ams would cash in Open and take prizes just so they could play Am Worlds. One guy in North Carolina did that for years just so he could win Am Worlds. The best he could do was 2nd.
bruce_brakel
Mar 27 2007, 12:45 PM
As a TD I'd be all for that. I'd be fine with sequestering the difference and adding it to the pros next time too. Half of our pro women field is trophy-only amateurs, but almost no ams play trophy-only in the mens' divisions.
doot
Mar 27 2007, 12:49 PM
You weren't around when during the times when skilled Advanced Ams would cash in Open and take prizes just so they could play Am Worlds. One guy in North Carolina did that for years just so he could win Am Worlds. The best he could do was 2nd.
How is that any different than winning Advanced as often as possible (and not moving up to Open) to retain Am status for Worlds?
magilla
Mar 27 2007, 01:05 PM
You weren't around when during the times when skilled Advanced Ams would cash in Open and take prizes just so they could play Am Worlds. One guy in North Carolina did that for years just so he could win Am Worlds. The best he could do was 2nd.
How is that any different than winning Advanced as often as possible (and not moving up to Open) to retain Am status for Worlds?
Im not against it...BUT...An AM could REALLY sandbag if that was allowed.....
A TOP AM could play Pro and transfer to prizes AND dominate the ADV field and bag those prizes as well :p Its not likely BUT its possible in "lesser markets" where the comp. isnt so tough...couldnt see it in NorCal, N. Carolina, etc..
It used to be that way...I cashed at the Wintertime Open in '93 or so and was allowed to take Prizes instead of CASH :oIt wasnt going to happen BUT Steve Rico ALSO cashed and they let him take prizes as well....so I got to "ride that train" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
DeanTannock
Mar 27 2007, 03:34 PM
We had a player with us last week in Gainesville that was a Am playing Pro. He finished tied for 7th in Open,refused cash so he could still play Bowling Green Ams. It was $150,the TD would not give merchandise. I don't see the harm in the TD handing the money to a vendor on site and him getting $150 in plastic. Is this a tough thing to do?
The player was Jeremy Drake from Birmingham,look out for him. He is getting better day to day!
Deano... :cool:
the_beastmaster
Mar 27 2007, 03:39 PM
We had a player with us last week in Gainesville that was a Am playing Pro. He finished tied for 7th in Open,refused cash so he could still play Bowling Green Ams. It was $150,the TD would not give merchandise. I don't see the harm in the TD handing the money to a vendor on site and him getting $150 in plastic. Is this a tough thing to do?
The player was Jeremy Drake from Birmingham,look out for him. He is getting better day to day!
Deano... :cool:
It's against the rules though. Taking either money or "prizes in lieu of money" will cause an Am to relinquish his amateur status.
DeanTannock
Mar 27 2007, 04:52 PM
AM = $150 of plastic
PRO = $150 of cash
AM = plastic
PRO= cash
bruce_brakel
Mar 27 2007, 04:57 PM
doot understood it was against the rules. He was questioning "why".
the_beastmaster
Mar 27 2007, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I knew what Doot meant, but Dean seemed to be blaming it on the TD for not letting him, when it's the PDGA that has that rule in place.
I guess what it comes down to is, whether you get paid in cash or plastic, that player would still have played well enough to "cash" in a Pro division. I guess the PDGA wants to stress that if you're good enough to earn something for placing in Open, than you're good enough to play Open all the time... :confused: I dunno, just trying to think of an explanation...
DeanTannock
Mar 27 2007, 05:12 PM
This used to NOT be a problem. TD's used to give merchandise for Am's finishing in Pro spots.
I don't see why we can't get back to it.
ck34
Mar 27 2007, 05:19 PM
For a short while in the late 90s, some TDs were giving merch instead of cash to ams who cashed in pro divisions as a way to keep these up and coming Ams out of Advanced during the six months prior to Am Worlds and get them pro experience. We were definitely doing this in Minnesota. Then, Hoeniger said 'no' and was supported by the Competition Director and Board. The implication was that the PDGA would be breaking the illusion that our Pro and Am tracks were different besides just the fact that one track earned cash and one earned merch prizes. Perhaps that policy might be reconsidered along with other aspects of our competition system that have been discussed on various threads.
gnduke
Mar 27 2007, 07:47 PM
At least for one crossover division if nowhere else. :cool:
DOC65
Mar 28 2007, 12:03 AM
For a short while in the late 90s, some TDs were giving merch instead of cash to ams who cashed in pro divisions as a way to keep these up and coming Ams out of Advanced during the six months prior to Am Worlds and get them pro experience. We were definitely doing this in Minnesota. Then, Hoeniger said 'no' and was supported by the Competition Director and Board. The implication was that the PDGA would be breaking the illusion that our Pro and Am tracks were different besides just the fact that one track earned cash and one earned merch prizes. Perhaps that policy might be reconsidered along with other aspects of our competition system that have been discussed on various threads.
Why not do what the USGA does and allow AM to collect a min amount when cashing in a Pro event. Even when Phil Mickelson won in Az. during his college days he got a pro shop gift cert. per the USGA recommendation and the 2nd place pro got first place cash and so forth. During the Masters when there are more than one Am that makes the cut they will give gift certificates starting with the USGA min. for the low AM and work their way down from there.
In this case why not modify the rule so that the AM at least gets his entry back in merchandise and work down from there if multiple AM cash. Seems like this would allow more advanced AM's to try their hand at Pro and increase the Pro payout at the same time. Not all AM's will cash but it would be an opportunity to learn and get experience if they know that they can at least have a chance for a rewarded effort.
Now this brings up another question that I'm curious about which kinda relates to AM's cashing. And that has to do with an AM, playing in an AM division, shooting the lowest score. I've been told that the AM would only be eligible to win his division and not get the overall trophy. Even though they shot the lowest score. In this what if case the AM would have played the same tee and holes as all the Pro's.